Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2022 December 31

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The result was redirect to MAN SE. Liz Read! Talk! 22:49, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

MANAŞ

MANAŞ (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination
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Not enough sources to show it is notable Chidgk1 (talk) 20:50, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Elizabeth Paton. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 19:57, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Elizabeth Bishop (Burns)

Elizabeth Bishop (Burns) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination
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Notability is not

WP:INVALIDBIO: That person A has a relationship with well-known person B, such as being a spouse or child, is not a reason for a standalone article on A (unless significant coverage can be found on A); relationships do not confer notability. There is no significant coverage as far as I can see. Hemiauchenia (talk) 19:38, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

I would support a Merge to Elizabeth Paton, per Cielquiparle below. Hemiauchenia (talk) 22:21, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]


The article about

Elizabeth Bishop (Burns), the daughter of Robert Burns
, should not be removed. Why not?

  1. In the reasons for deletion within the deletion policy of Wikipedia, no convincing argument can be found to delete this article. It is true that in the section about inherited notability it says: "The fact of having a famous relative is not, in and of itself, sufficient to justify an independent article." However, this is not only contradicted by the general notability guideline ("A topic is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list when it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject.") but by the reality in Wikipedia itself. This is not an oddity or oversight; it just clearly is in line with one of the five pillars of Wikipedia: "Wikipedia has no firm rules" which, among other things, says: "Wikipedia has policies and guidelines, but they are not carved in stone." It matters for our actual discussion here because there are very very many examples in Wikipedia where articles about people exist for the only reason that they were relatives of somebody famous – like William Shakespeare's grandfather Richard Shakespeare, his parents John Shakespeare and Mary Shakespeare, his wife Anne Hathaway, and his children Susanna Hall, Judith Quiney and Hamnet Shakespeare; Rembrandt's son Titus van Rijn; Martin Luther's wife Katharina von Bora and three of his children Elisabeth Luther, Magdalena Luther and Paul Luther; or Charles Dickens' parents John Dickens and Elizabeth Dickens, and many more members of his family including ten (!) dedicated articles about his children. There are even two separate articles in Wikipedia about Barack Obama's dogs Bo and Sunny. Mentioning these examples here is by no means done to belittle them, rather the opposite; they certainly show at least two things: firstly, that a clear-cut policy in Wikipedia to remove such articles doesn't exist and, secondly, that these articles enrich Wikipedia. Of course always, and importantly, under certain conditions, e.g. that reliable sources are added.
  2. Many other dedicated articles in Wikipedia have been created about people who were in one way or another associated with Robert Burns. If he had not become a famous poet, we most likely wouldn't know anything about these people. The following Wikipedia articles simply wouldn't exist: about his wife Jean Armour; his parents William Burnes and Agnes Broun; his siblings Gilbert Burns, Agnes Burns, Annabella Burns, William Burns, John Burns, Isabella Burns; his father-in-law James Armour; several of his children Robert Burns Junior, William Nicol Burns, James Glencairn Burns, Francis Wallace Burns, Betty Burns; his friends or lovers Jean Lorimer, Frances Dunlop, Jessie Lewars, May Cameron, Jean Gardner, Nelly Kilpatrick, Nelly Blair, Alison Begbie, Peggy Thompson, Elizabeth Paton, Ann Park, Mary Campbell, Jenny Clow, Agnes Maclehose. Would anybody seriously consider to delete all those articles as well?
  3. The suggestion to remove the article about Elizabeth Bishop could imply that she is regarded as a less worthy child of Robert Burns because she was illegitimate, maybe also because she was a girl. Such attitudes, of course, should not have any bearing in Wikipedia. It also doesn't stand up to the facts. Robert Burns not only acknowledged her as his Love-begotten Daughter with a poem but also secured her financially later with the profits from the 'Kilmarnock Edition' of his poems.
  4. Betty Burns was, like Elizabeth Bishop, also one of Robert Burns' illegitimate children, and also a girl. That article shouldn't be deleted either, should it?
  5. Is Elizabeth Bishop considered a person not "notable" enough to remain in Wikipedia because she is assumed to not have achieved much in life? How should this be defined? Not everybody can be a famous politician or accomplished artist or remarkable for some other reason. She simply is the child of Robert Burns which certainly is the only reason why she is known today and people might be interested in her. The closer it gets to our actual time the more examples can be found of people, many of them still alive, who are in Wikipedia only because they are the children of a well-known person. The reason that a growing number of such articles exists is the fact that a huge amount of information can be found in a variety of modern sources about these more recent people to justify their notability in Wikipedia, even independently of being a child of somebody famous. With such rich and detailed material it is possible to find something remarkable or noteworthy about pretty much anybody with a famous parent. But that simply isn't possible in the same way with Elizabeth Bishop. From that point of view, she is just unlucky that she lived such a long time ago, otherwise we also could supply many sources with minute details about her life which would make her "notable".

Stillbusy (talk) 15:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WP:INVALIDBIO: That person A has a relationship with well-known person B, such as being a spouse or child, is not a reason for a standalone article on A (unless significant coverage can be found on A); relationships do not confer notability. However, person A may be included in the related article on B. For example, Jason Allen Alexander is included in the article on Britney Spears and the page Jason Allen Alexander merely redirects to that article. Hemiauchenia (talk) 22:19, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
@Stillbusy I agree that there is a lot of confusion in deletion discussions about applying contemporary standards of notability to historical figures, often inappropriately or unfairly, and without much understanding of historical context or sources. That said, my impression is that over the last couple of years, Wikipedia standards have become more strict about standalone articles about family members of historical figures – to the point that there is a lot of consolidation of this type of biographical content, which may seem surprising at first. The fact that many "family member" articles currently exist for Robert Burns and other authors doesn't mean they will all survive future deletion discussions. (Disappointing, I know.) To me, what is important is the actual content, and if quality information and sources can continue to reside on other pages, that is still a net plus for Wikipedia. In this particular case, it really doesn't help that even the ''Burns Encyclopedia'' doesn't seem to offer a standalone entry for this Elizabeth, and that there is barely any information available about her, outside from the poem (which overlaps on the Elizabeth Paton page), and a few facts about her life. Cielquiparle (talk) 16:01, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Stillbusy OK, I've had another thought, which is: One way to save this as a standalone article might be to look for secondary coverage about the poem dedicated to Elizabeth Bishop. If there is enough analysis found about the poem itself, in additional sources, we could add more content about that and try to justify keeping the page (although we might need to reframe it more to be about the poem, with background information about her). The other thing I wanted to clarify is that after "merging" content, what typically happens is that Elizabeth Bishop (Burns) would become a redirect, so if there is in fact anyone looking for her by that name, they would still be likely to find content about her on Wikipedia on whichever page the redirect is pointing to. Cielquiparle (talk) 16:27, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. No prejudice against recreation if the concerns raised here can be resolved. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 19:59, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lucretia (Baldung)

Lucretia (Baldung) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Originally deleted as speedy but challenged so opening up for a bit more discussion. This was deleted on deWiki as a hoax ( see deletion discussion there) and i've been unable to find any solid evidence to disagree with them. Found reference to a clearly different (in both style and format) similarly titled work by Baldung on the met website but that just makes me feel it's less likely. James of UR (talk) 19:21, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note, I added the hoax template to the article as a warning during the AfD but if we disagree should obviously remove it. James of UR (talk) 19:30, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Just to let you "know": everything in the article is wrong, total invention. --HCBut (talk) 16:58, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:28, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Abdul Binate

Abdul Binate (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails GNG (as well as the obsolete

WP:FPL.) All you can find is a signing announcement. Has never played a match. Maybe in the future will be notable, but not yet. RedPatch (talk) 17:58, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

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The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:42, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Signe J. Pedersen

Signe J. Pedersen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Stats stub with no evidence that Pedersen meets

WP:NFOOTBALL no longer exists although, to be fair, I'm not sure if Pedersen would have met that guideline anyway. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 17:43, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

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The result was soft delete. Based on

"soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 20:21, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Arabs in Belgium

Arabs in Belgium (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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This is essentially a

WP:CF of Moroccans in Belgium, Lebanese Belgians, and a future article to be written on Algerians in Belgium. It has no value and is problematic given how many people from within these groups are not ethnic "Arabs". It is entirely unsourced. —Brigade Piron (talk) 17:27, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

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The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:27, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Distorted View Show

AfDs for this article:
The Distorted View Show (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Does not pass

Tim Henson is a redirect so merging or redirecting to the host doesn't make sense. The page could maybe be redirected to Sirius Satellite Radio, but it doesn't seem worth it. TipsyElephant (talk) 16:15, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Radio, Entertainment, and Internet. TipsyElephant (talk) 16:15, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I find no sources for the podcast, other than download/streaming sites. Oaktree b (talk) 16:34, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep This certainly isn't everyone's cup of tea for a show, but commitment to a podcast daily a year before it came to prominence, for nearly twenty years, and being produced for seven years before that, along with time linked to Sirius? This passes
    WP:GNG for me. Also should be properly noted that the first nom was in limbo for thirteen years because of a lack of transclusion, so I don't even consider the first nom to apply to anything. Nate • (chatter) 01:10, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
    ]
That would be a strong case for notability, but we'd need sources discussing it, before we can keep the article here. Oaktree b (talk) 16:34, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 16:39, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete - Article's subject fails
    WP:WEBCRIT looks for. This is confirmed by the fact that I could find no independent coverage of this podcast winning the award; if there had been such coverage that might be an indicator as to its significance, but I could not find any such coverage. - Aoidh (talk) 17:57, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]
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The result was delete. ✗plicit 13:34, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Miguel Assunção

Miguel Assunção (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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There is some coverage of this bit-part semi-pro goalkeeper but it's not enough for

WP:RS. Best sources in my searches were Reconquista, a basic transfer announcement, Mediotejo, a series of match report mentions, and a brief quote in Zero Zero. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 13:08, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

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The result was delete. ✗plicit 13:35, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nathan Ingram (karate)

Nathan Ingram (karate) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Was deprodded without improvement. Other than the spurt of coverage when he foiled the bank robbery in 1981, and even that is mostly simple mentions, there is not any in-depth coverage of him in independent, reliable, sources. Fails

WP:GNG. Onel5969 TT me 12:34, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

References

  1. ^ https://medium.com/catchesbulletswithhisteeth/nathan-ingram-the-bruce-leroy-overdoer-6e94f722c41
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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 07:39, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

IAT Automotive

IAT Automotive (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The assertion that this company is a "Beijing-based vehicle design and engineering company that has been active for the past 35 years" without any attribution immediately raises concerns. As far as I can see, IAT Automotive may fail any number of tests for notability including but not limited to

WP:GNG. As always, please do prove me wrong. Pete in Australia aka User:Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 User:Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 11:17, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 07:39, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Peter Membrey

Peter Membrey (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable per

WP:NPROF
criteria does not appear to be met either.

Sidenote: The subject has requested deletion of the article.[10] Saucysalsa30 (talk) 10:40, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. Appears to be non-notable with extremely limited media coverage. And the diff [11] that Saucysalsa30 shared gives the strong impression that the article's subject commissioned the article. Per Wikipedia policy, anyone being paid to create articles here must disclose that fact and this doesn't appears to have happened here. Thanks to Saucysalsa30 for bringing this article up for AfD and raising awareness of a case of possible COI editing.--SouthernNights (talk) 12:07, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The only criteria that might work here is NAUTH but I do not find any reviews of his books. Admittedly, computer manuals (which is what he writes) don't get reviewed like other books. He's not an academic, and there are no 3rd-party sources about him. Much of what is in the article is unsubstantiated in the sources provided. Lamona (talk) 19:01, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak delete. There's a borderline case for
    WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE issues put me on the delete side of the borderline. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:18, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Delete: I agree that at the moment we can respect the
    WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE as his claim to notability is marginal at best. As it is still early in his career, he may become definitively notable in the future, but we can assess that at a later point. Curbon7 (talk) 21:45, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Delete fails
    WP:PROF#C1.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:29, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]
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The result was delete. The consensus is that the sources identified do not establish GNG. That doesn't mean that an article can't be written in the future and I encourage this effort to occur in Draft space. Liz Read! Talk! 07:39, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Robert L. Norton

Robert L. Norton (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Doubtful if he is notable. Sjö (talk) 10:21, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and Arts. Sjö (talk) 10:21, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 10:49, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I don't find any sources, this reads like an extended linkedin profile. Oaktree b (talk) 17:44, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete No sources found for the bio information in this article. I do find info on his "block-chain-your-art" company Verisart and am surprised that no article has been done given the block-chain mania, but did not go far enough into that to determine if GNG could be met for the company. Lamona (talk) 19:18, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Keep, Maybe Rewrite I searched Robert Norton and the name of the company and found a lot of quality news sources on google. I am not going through each one but, it seems a good portion of the article could be sourced. The issue is the article deals largely with his investors in his art company. The bio needs to be redone but, there seems to be enough press from legit sources. ScienceAdvisor (talk) 19:47, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I actually just looked at the company website. There are more than enough articles to establish notability for the company and likely him as well. There are probably close to 100 with everything from the New Yorker to the NY Times. ScienceAdvisor (talk) 19:49, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    ScienceAdvisor, could you list some of the articles that you think support the bio? Thanks, Lamona (talk) 17:13, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    There are hundreds on google of you search "robert Lloyd verisart".. or you can visit his company page at https://verisart.com/press .. I'm not sure that I am prepared to go through it all but, I doubt someone with hundreds of press mentions hasn't established notability. This seems like a project for someone. I am not saying the page is acceptable but, in my experience a poorly written page is not enough of a reason for deletion if notability can be established. ScienceAdvisor (talk) 22:46, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm afraid you are going to have to be more specific. Hundreds of pages of Google results or even press mentions are not criteria we use. Please see
    WP:THREE and pull out any 3 independent and significant sources that would support notability. They have to be more than mentions, and they have to be independent of him, his company, or any press releases his company has put out. Thanks, Lamona (talk) 20:44, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Delete NN individual. Cameron Scott (talk) 19:45, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedy delete. Given that all the recent edits from this user have been joke edits about his family, I'm gving this no credence. Probable hoax, or at least entirely misguided. SpinningSpark 22:59, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

UTC+23:00

UTC+23:00 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Made up. Doesn't exist. This is long beyond the

UTC-01:00 or around it.Mvqr (talk) 09:24, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

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The result was delete. Liz Read! Talk! 07:33, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pauk (band)

Pauk (band) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Nearly unknown and lost band. Apparently their only released album and some unreleased material was uploaded by a YouTuber with 53.8k subscribers and they gave a recent reddit interview thread.

There is no significant coverage. It is a lost band with one single (1981) followed by one album (1983). The "gained much popularity" blurb in the article is based on having a discogs.com entry that says nothing like that. Mvqr (talk) 09:05, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Mvqr (talk) 09:05, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Admittedly, this is a somewhat interesting story. As a rock band formed during a Communist regime, they probably had few opportunities for getting gigs or recording. However, it was possible for bands in similar situations to get national and worldwide coverage due to the very difficulty of that situation, such as Omega (band) or Mr. Zoob. That did not happen for this band, who seem to have quickly disappeared after a rocky start. Being rediscovered by a single collector today doesn't matter unless it becomes an episode of reliable media interest. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 15:37, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete fails
    WP:NBAND.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:31, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply
    ]
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The result was merge to Bombay Orthodox Diocese. As an ATD. Liz Read! Talk! 07:32, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

St. Mary's Orthodox Cathedral, Dadar, Mumbai

St. Mary's Orthodox Cathedral, Dadar, Mumbai (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination
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Fails GNG and WP:NBUILDING. No results in Wikipedia Library and news. The article sounds very promotional and the article only has information about when the church has services. `~HelpingWorld~` (👽🛸) 07:34, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on

"soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz Read! Talk! 07:30, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Creambell

Creambell (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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A wiki page maintained for advertising purposes by the digital agency Korra Gurgaon since March 2022. Please refer to the article's edit history for further information. In addition to this, it does not pass

CORPDEPTH. RPSkokie (talk) 07:01, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

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The result was keep. Liz Read! Talk! 07:29, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Street Trust

The Street Trust (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Vanity organization of local interest. Does not pass

WP:NCORP. BikePortland.org, a one man show reporting outlet does not have meaningful impact in terms of establishing notability and coverage of this organization in media of regional or national coverage is nowhere at the level of significant coverage. Sources have been added since nomination; however numerous minor coverage isn't the equivalent of several coverage in depth and notability isn't inherited. The article on Sarah Iannarone becomig the executive director of this organization is more about her than it being a significant coverage on the organization. Graywalls (talk) 08:05, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

Weak keep It's not immediately apparent if this organization passes or fails
WP:NCORP
. There are a lot of insignificant mentions of the org (under its current and former names), especially in the Oregonian. Better citations of existing coverage in newspapers and government documents could prove notability.
QuintinK (talk) 07:46, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The initial nomination text seems to suggest that the nominator has personal familiarity with the organization and a non-neutral (negative)
POV. A less slanted nomination would be much better and would clarify that this proposal is being made in good faith. QuintinK (talk) 07:57, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
Comment Government documents are generally PRIMARY sources. For example, when a non-profit does more than a certain amount of financial activity, by law, form 990 must be filed. The existence simply means they filed a legally required paperwork. It has nothing to do with notability. Per
WP:SIRS, things used to establish notability have to be secondary and totally independent. Government documents / primary sources aren't forbidden when used sensibly, but they're not stuffers to fill contents and would hold no weight in notability. Graywalls (talk) 09:03, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
Leadership changes in the organization also regularly receive significant coverage from news outlets like the Oregonian:
Despite the assertion that the Iannarone sources are about her, they are also about, and contain significant coverage of, the organization itself. This 30-year-old organization has also had a significant impact on transportation legislation and policies. Its efforts led to changes in metropolitan mass transit policy to require bicycle racks for buses and its lawsuit against the City of Portland changed the interpretation and enforcement of the Oregon Bicycle Bill. gobonobo + c 16:55, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting in light of the improvements to the article since the nomination.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 07:00, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment As much of the new material provided is not available free online, it would be helpful if someone could identify the specific sources that qualify as "reliable, independent, in-depth coverage". I was only able to find short mentions. BruceThomson (talk) 07:07, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This is definitively significant coverage, a cover story in the Willamette Week (per the other Willamette Week link above). Jfire (talk) 01:10, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's a local weekly intended for Portland, Oregon only. Which piece in national or regional media outlet significant, independent secondary coverage to satisfy
WP:CORP is satisfied? Graywalls (talk) 04:52, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
Yes, I concede that the Willamette Week is a local media outlet. But we assess the balance of all sources. A cover story in local media, significant and sustained coverage in the major regional paper, documented impacts on state legislation, and coverage in book sources, on balance, establish that this organization meets the
WP:CORP requirements. Jfire (talk) 05:01, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
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The result was keep. The nominator is encouraged to look in non-English new sources in future nominations. Liz Read! Talk! 03:31, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

EcoProfit

EcoProfit (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The article fails GNG and WP:CORP. If you search up the topic, chances are it will take you to a organization in Africa. I also couldnt find anything on the internet about this, aswell the article might be promotional or original research. The person who created the page only created the page and Cleaner production left. `~HelpingWorld~` (👽🛸) 07:11, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

???? what are you talking about, go to the City of Graz Webpage, to the pages of Munich, Zurich, you will find it by the German word ÖKOPROFIT, go to GIZ India and you will find it there. It is a model internationally used by municipalities and associations to reduce waste, increase energy efficiency in companies. What is your problem? 217.149.160.237 (talk) 07:35, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, tough it's understandable why an article like this, that hasn't been sourced or made encyclopaedic in the last 14 years, would be nomminated for deletion. But a Google News search for the German language title reveals numerous lengthy repuatble news articles about various Ökoprofit projects and initiatives. Sionk (talk) 14:46, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 06:34, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ✗plicit 06:29, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WFBT (Bath, New York)

WFBT (Bath, New York) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Tagged as unsourced since 2015, this is a station that was never actually authorized to sign on despite filing for a license application (one day before its 2009 expiration) because the application was incomplete. (The FCC actually said, "WFBT has never commenced operation.") It's very hard to imagine there being enough out there to allow this never-was station to meet the

GNG; this article on a court ruling against it probably won't be enough. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:49, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

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The result was delete. ✗plicit 06:30, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pornstar Académie

Pornstar Académie (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails GNG and NTV. I searched on Wikipedia library, google and Microsoft edge and found nothing related to the show. Most of the results of the show lead to adult websites. Not much I could find else about it. `~HelpingWorld~` (👽🛸) 05:43, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:55, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. I think there is a consensus to Keep this article plus there is a lack of a policy-grounded deletion rationale for why this article merits deletion. I hope to not see this article nominated for a third round at AFD for at least a year. Liz Read! Talk! 04:45, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Armita Abbasi

AfDs for this article:
Armita Abbasi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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One of hundreds of Iranian citizens who have been detained and abused in custody by Iranian security forces during the Mahsa Amini protests. Most of them receive passing mentions, initial bursts of coverage, and attention in local sources. Only a handful of them receive substantial coverage over a period of time, or have a significant, tangible impact. As tragic as Abbasi's detention, abuse, and alleged death may be, I cannot see how she is not one of the aforementioned handful. Mooonswimmer 05:04, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Armita Abbasi is not dead!!! T>he Article is absolute valid! 2A02:8071:2B82:84A0:F93C:F4C6:17A5:7A45 (talk) 08:20, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Saying that her case is not notable is similar to saying that the mistreatment and death of George Floyd or shooting of Sandra Bland are not notable because so many others have had a similar story and caused outrage for a while without resulting in tangible impact. These kinds of stories become actionable and impactful precisely when the name of the victims are well known and what happened to them can be corroborated by witnesses and verified by journalists, and something about the victim touches people.
Armita Abbasi's case is relevant, because both her image and her name are known, and because some of the details of what has happened to her have been corroborated by multiple credible witnesses who have risked their lives to offer proof of who they are and how they know what they know, making it possible for credible reporters to verify the information.
Armita is also relevant and significant because she represents an unknown number of others in a similar situation whose stories are not known or cannot be verified. Her first name and image has become shorthand for protesters that have been repeatedly raped (and for those whose whereabouts are unknown) in video tributes, Youtube reaction videos, vlogs, and articles.
Her case is relevant because it documents one of the patterns of events that have been rumored to happen in Iran not just with the current imprisoned protesters, but also prisoners from past protests.
She is relevant because, before hearing about her people like me didn't know that this was one of the possibilities for prisoners in Iran, and no credible reporter can inform anyone about people suffering a similar fate if they cannot point to a verifiable case. 104.35.149.100 (talk) 23:39, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was merge to List of DC Universe locations. As an ATD Liz Read! Talk! 03:57, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rock of Eternity

AfDs for this article:
Rock of Eternity (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination
)
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A fictional location from DC comics. The article consists solely of a plot summary and a list of appearances in various media, and fails

WP:ATD in mind I suggest redirecting this to the List of DC Universe locations. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:29, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

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The result was redirect to Trapezohedron. Liz Read! Talk! 02:50, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Decagonal trapezohedron

Decagonal trapezohedron (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination
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Trivial content, nothing new compared to the general trapezohedron article (which for some reason is not even linked in the lead). No significant coverage of this special instance of the class of polyhedra online I can find either. 1234qwer1234qwer4 03:06, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ✗plicit 01:09, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wolfram Wittekind

Wolfram Wittekind (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG, and WP:SIGCOV. The only reference the article had was removed as it did not support the article claims. Was the original article in German that this version was translated from an advertisement for the artist, as it has characteristics that make it suspicious? KeepItGoingForward (talk) 05:10, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:26, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Justin Mottier

Justin Mottier (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails

WP:SIGCOV, and Wikipedia:Notability_(sports)#Cycling. Short career before returning to the amateur ranks and best result was second for a race (2.2) that does not meet significance standard if even it had been a win "won a UCI category race (minimum classification 1.1 / 2.1". KeepItGoingForward (talk) 04:12, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Cycling, and France. Shellwood (talk) 10:46, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Competed at professional level, there are definitely sources out there. I can find a good amount from the French version of the article already. Seacactus 13 (talk) 15:58, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes they did compete professionally, but which references meet the significant coverage threshold? The rider also did not win anything of significance. Just because a rider was professional does not make them notable. KeepItGoingForward (talk) 05:50, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Once again, it appears that you did no
    WP:BEFORE, I found plenty of coverage on him and greatly expanded the article in only a few minutes. You have to consider non-English sources. I found lots of eveidence of GNG and SIGCOV. You cannot only judge notability on purely results and what is avaiable in English. Seacactus 13 (talk) 22:09, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    He may have some coverage, but it is not significant. As an example one can be seen by the links you posted around his retirement such as the reference number 10 to his retirement which you linked to a dead page. When pulled from the archieve.org [15] and if we use google translate it states, "Like his teammate Adrien Garel, Justin Mottier announced on social networks that he was leaving professional cycling. Not kept by B&B Hotels-Vital Concept, a team to which he belonged since its creation, the Mayennais, third in the Route Adélie in 2018, posted a message on his Twitter account.
    "Life goes on, different but just as exciting"
    "The professional adventure only lasted 3 years. Disappointed but not defeated. Life goes on, different but just as exciting. A huge thank you to those who allowed me to reach this level: my family, my club trainer, my amateur clubs, and of course B&B Hotels-Vital Concept. Thanks also to all the people who have always encouraged me throughout these years. Remorse but no regrets!""
    It is basically a copy and paste of his social media message and the lack of significant coverage around his retirement shows that as a cyclist he is not notable. KeepItGoingForward (talk) 22:20, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    That is one source. How about the other ten? You cannot jusge his enture notability based on one event, such as retirement. Once again, you look at this from a very narrow perpective. Seacactus 13 (talk) 22:23, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Which sources do you believe show significant coverage that meets the threshold of GNG to show notability? KeepItGoingForward (talk) 22:27, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I would also appreciate if you would no longer continue the personal attacks here, on other pages, and on my talk page. KeepItGoingForward (talk) 22:28, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure what you believe was a personal attack, I was simply evaluating your AfD nomination of this article and your reasoning, which is the point of these discussions. I'm not interested in fighting, so I will discuss no more on this page. I found sources and improved the article and stated my belief on the article's notability, and I will leave it at this. Sorry if you disagree with my opinions and do not like what I said, but that is the purpose of these discussions. Also, I did not even add the source you pointed out earlier; it was already present on the article. And to answer your question, I belive most of these sources to show notability. Seacactus 13 (talk) 23:40, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    None of the items are significant, but there are a multitude of sources that prove GNG and continued coverage. Oaktree b (talk) 17:28, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:17, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to examine expansion of article and new sources found.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:56, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep More than enough coverage in French media, including this as an example [16], about him talking about retirement. Oaktree b (talk) 17:27, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    And this, fairly significant coverage. [17] Oaktree b (talk) 17:30, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Enough coverage in French sources to justify inclusion. [18], [19], [20], [21], [22], [23], [24]. Jfire (talk) 00:07, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. This is a real, notable person. I do not think we should delete this article. Maine 🦞 19:44, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus.

WP:NPASR applies. ✗plicit 01:08, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Vardhan Puri

AfDs for this article:
Vardhan Puri (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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NN actor. Notability is not inherited. UtherSRG (talk) 02:41, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete per

WP:CSD#5. ✗plicit 14:59, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Rabeeca Khan

Rabeeca Khan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The notability claim in article is the Singer, YouTuber and number of followers she have on Tiktok, which is not an inclusion criterion at all. The article consist of biographical trivia and references (1 is non reliable) don't support for notability as all are covering her only in the context of the photoshoot rather than career-related. M.Ashraf333 (talk) 02:39, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

02:39, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

  • Comment Singer with 3 singles in 2 years and no prominent work in fashion industry.— Preceding unsigned comment added by M.Ashraf333 (talk • contribs) 31 December 2022 (UTC)
  • Delete - It looks like she's trying to get started as a cross-media personality who dabbles in music and modeling, but all she has so far is her own social media promotions. Good luck but you need reliable media coverage to get an article here. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 03:17, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Skynxnex (talk) 03:33, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep There's this [25] and many other hits in the Daily Pakistan newspaper, but I'm feeling most of them are tabloid-ey coverage. Lots on this BOL News TV site [26]. Oaktree b (talk) 17:42, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tichku, Daily Pakistan emphasizing her no of followers on TikTok and YouTube and Instagram and also claiming dance on Govinda Naam Mera ft Vicky Kaushal's song. BOL News is primary source for her as she worked in BOL TV Show. Other references you are claiming for her notability here , here and here are blogposts, paid promotions and non reliable and non independent sources.M.Ashraf333 (talk) 06:24, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WP:SOCK Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 12:53, 7 January 2023 (UTC) [reply
]

No it means we don't recognize social media followers as a marker of reliability, when and until the various social media platforms can prove they aren't bot-driven followers. Look up stream farms on google, literally physical walls of ipods streaming the same song over and over and over, to boost the media. Oaktree b (talk) 13:55, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I did not say that it is only famous on social media it is on Youtubers and worth mentioning is singer He has not one but many songs which have got coverage on news sites. and

WP:SOCK Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 12:53, 7 January 2023 (UTC) [reply
]

Tichku, First off, you don't have any right to strike out my comment as you did in last revision. You can explain here in discussion why this article should be stay on Wikimedia. M.Ashraf333 (talk) 12:47, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Additional comment The Creator of the article was identified as a sock of NasirRanjhyWala, indicating that the article might be tagged as CSD G5. M.Ashraf333 (talk) 04:56, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn Liz Read! Talk! 07:30, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lara Prescott


Lara Prescott (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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BLP doesn't seem to meet

WP:NBIO - lacks in-depth coverage in independent sources. MrsSnoozyTurtle 00:40, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

Nomination withdrawn. MrsSnoozyTurtle 00:44, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Seems fine to me from having a look. StarryNightSky11 ☎ 02:12, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Those advocating Keeping this article have put together a formidable argument. While the name maybe "made-up", it is being used which I believe makes it valid as an identification. Plus, this article can not be redirect or merged to

Brokpa people as that page is a redirect, not an article, which redirects to Brokpa which is an ethnic group, not a place. There has also been substantial argument that this location and Brokpa are two distinct and different elements so Merging would not be the best solution. If there is disagreement about the page title or the article content, that can be resolved on the article talk page or in one of our dispute resolution processes. Liz Read! Talk! 03:05, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply
]

Aryan valley

talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination
)
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This is really a non-topic. The term "Aryan Valley" has been invented by the tourist industry to capitalise on the supposed "Aryanness" of the

Brokpa people in Ladakh. Since they speak an Indo-Aryan language even though in the middle of a Tibetic-speaking region, the British chose to refer to them as "Aryans". More than half of India and Pakistan speaks Indo-Aryan languages. So there is nothing special here. A recent paper explained the problem saying, "A strong rumour persists which claims the Brokpa belong to 'pure Aryan stock' and this is accounted in sensational newspaper stories and documentaries on the internet, with rumours claiming that westerners come to Leh in search of the Brokpa, to have a pure Aryan child born to them." The paper did a genetic search for the supposed "Aryan genes" in this population, and didn't find many. They found South Indian "Dravidian genes", though.[1]

Whatever can be salvaged from this page can be added to

Brokpa people. There is no need for this page at all. Kautilya3 (talk) 23:22, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

References

  1. doi:10.1080/03014460.2019.1694700
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Ethnic groups, History, Popular culture, Buddhism, Geography, India, and Ladakh. Kautilya3 (talk) 23:22, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - This article is about a location, and the sources in the article show notability per
    WP:GEOLAND. It would be improper to merge a geographical article into an article about an ethnic group. The region exists and is defined by reliable sources; that the nom suggests it was "invented by the tourist industry" does not override the notability established by reliable sources. The genetics of its inhabitants similarly does not detract from the notability of the subject. The article certainly needs work, but deletion is not a solution to any of the issues brought up. - Aoidh (talk) 00:05, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
    ]
WP:GNG. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:11, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
You made that rule up ;) The article needs sourcing for this *name*, and no, it doesn't need to be in an ethnology journal. Elinruby (talk) 18:30, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
See
WP:CONTEXTMATTERS. A newspaper article claiming certain groups to be "Aryan" carries no weight whatsover, especially when scholarly sources have denied it. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:41, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
I provided one source because the rest are in the article and very clearly show notability. With that article I shared above, the entire article is about that area by that name; that it only uses that name once does not matter, its about the article's subject. That coverage could not be more significant. This entire piece is about the article's subject. Here is a book source that goes into some detail. Here is a piece from the Journal of the Anthropological Society of India. I'm not going to just list examples but they are numerous, and more than sufficient to show notability through
WP:AFD one. There is no reason to delete this article. - Aoidh (talk) 02:01, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
Whatever you mean by "signficant coverage", it cannot possibly mean one-sentence or half-a-sentence mentions. Tht is what you find in your first source and your third source. Your second source has a few more mentions, but it is an anthropological study that is describing how the people are using the term; the scholar is not using it or descrbing it. For example, she says:

Soon after their villages were thrown open to tourism, Brogpa travel agents, either independently or in collaboration with more established tourist companies, organized packaged tours to explore the "Aryan Valley".

You cannot possibly derive a Wikipedia page out of such mentions. In summary, you have produced nothing of use here, and your claim of
WP:GNG is wholly unsubstantiated. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:34, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
It seems like you're reading only the abstract of this, because it has much more than a single sentence. Here is yet another with significant coverage; it's not hard to find many sources that detail this subject with much more than enough coverage to easily meet
WP:GNG. I'm not sure how downplaying the one study as an anthropological study that is describing how the people are using the term somehow diminishes its significant coverage of the subject; it is precisely the type of source that the article needs and unambiguously contributes to the well-established notability of the subject. Remove this fine, there's still multiple sources with significant coverage of the article's subject, even if one of them is merely anthropological, as if that's a bad thing. The argument that the sources available for this subject lack significant coverage is not a persuasive one, especially if you take the time to look for sources not listed in the article. - Aoidh (talk) 23:40, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
I am quite confused as to why Kautilya3 is now dismissing an anthropological study, after telling me that news stories < scholarly sources, which is of course a good rule of thumb, but does not for all of that preclude the use of news sources. This editor has for example been edit-warring to keep Al-Jazeera out of Brokpa, even though it is a reliable source all day long, not to mention reverting sourced additions as "OR". This would seem to be inconsistent. AGF, it is possible that the editor is worried about the admittedly awful use that was made of the term "Aryan" in the late 19th and early 20th century, and is under the impression that Minaro123 wants to endorse this origin story, which is not the case. It is simply the name someone else gave his language group ;) Yet the best explanation I can conceive of for what is going on here is that he's being held responsible for its appropriation by crazy people a hundred years ago. Admittedly he is new and on his fourth or fifth language and therefore somewhat difficult to understand at times, not to mention only just now beginning to understand reliable sources since someone has taken the trouble to explain the policy to him. I don't see Kautilya3 making any effort to collaborate however.
It takes more than dismissiveness to AfD an article, and beyond the genetics discussion that Kautilya3 seems to want Brokpa to be, there is a great deal that can be said about the identity as an economic initiative, about the politics of sovereignty in Kashmir, about the fragmentation of an endangered language, about the Line of Control, which goes right past some of these villages and has split families up with members on both sides, about initiatives to preserve the culture and about a proliferation of microbusinesses around this renaming. All of this can be done while explicitly repudiating neo-Nazis and refraining from making the article into some sort of promo booking site. I do also think that Kautilya3 should refresh her understanding of the RS and NPOV policies. Being written about by anthropologists does not preclude a cultural isolate from being a living breathing community of individuals who farm, choose sides in a conflict or run for office. If Kautilya3 wishes her article to purely focus on the anthropological body of work, then fine: another article can quite legitimately focus on the other aspects of the community, especially when there's a completely different nomenclature. OWNership is not a healthy trait in one article, let alone when someone is insisting that it should be the *only* article. Elinruby (talk) 11:27, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Elinruby, I suggest you read about the Use–mention distinction. If a scholar is mentioning a term, attributed to somebody else, it does not mean that the scholar is using that term, and claim that it establishes notability for your topic. You are either completely misunderstanding what the sources are saying or deliberately misrepresenting them. If you try to write a small paragraph to accurately summarise the sources that are being presented here, you will see for yourself the fallacies of your own arguments. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 14:52, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Kautilya3: I think you completely misunderstand a number of things starting with Wikipedia policy and the intended scope of the article. But out of curiosity, what is your objection to Resisting Occupation in Kashmir? You don't like news articles, you don't like anthropology, shrug. You're very hard to please and you keep shifting the goal posts. I personally don't think it matters whether the name meets with your approval. I dislike quite a number of place names. But if a government refers to a place under its jurisdiction as x, and in this case it is established that it does, then that is an aspect of its identity, whether we approve of the name or not. The NPOV way to deal with this is to explain the controversy. It may be appropriate in a Wikipedia article to also mention a traditional name, or to create a separate article on the place's niche in the local cosmology as the ancestral homeland of a given community, for example, but that will have nothing to do with the microfinance programs of the local development bank, or the constitutional authority of the local legislative body. I think it is time for you to drop the stick and back away from the horse. You are imposing normative judgements that you perceive to be correct but are not, and would in any event not be a reason to AfD the article. You are supposed to search for sources before you nominate an article for deletion, and in this case they are thick on the ground Elinruby (talk) 15:49, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: @Kautilya3: and yet none of this is in the article? I see an extensive discussion of a local origin story, but nothing at all about this. Is there something that distinguishes the people of this area from other Brokpa people? If not, perhaps what you are describing should be an article about the racist myth? Elinruby (talk) 01:07, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Followup comment I am beginning to see why the OP objects to the article. This seems relevant: [27]. However the people and the places and the mythology appear after a start at some due diligence to be quite real, whereas the article title appears to have elements of some sort of racialized promo. But this is not a reason to delete it. We write about such things, we don't censor them, right? There is indeed such an initiative. Still doing some work on the article. Could use some opinions on whether the Indian Express and the above journal are RS. There are a couple of others that seem not to be. Doing a BEFORE search and It looks promising. Elinruby (talk) 10:53, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Also here: [28]. Have not tried to incorporate this more nuanced narrative yet; still doing a copy-edit and wikilink check. Elinruby (talk) 11:16, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Please see WP:ATAD.Thanks, TrangaBellam (talk) 20:24, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: @Kautilya3: Comment: keep .

The dna result also says "The mtDNA profile shows a predominance of mtDNA HG A4 that must have arrived from outside the Indian subcontinent. " Please don't just keep a one side of a story . And maybe for having some percentage of a Indian subcontinent gene they have got mixed with the local population by living in Indian subcontinent for thousand of year . The dna results doesn't says that they have a dravadian gene , rather it says they have a some percentage of gene which is also found in South Indian and other part of Indian subcontinent like jammu etc. Background stories : 1:Last time kautilya3 have reverted my edit on Brokpa page because you were adding a fake cencus of Brokpa people which was somewhere around 50, thousand. But after I showed you many reference and these things was discuss with many wikepedian and finally you has to step back and change the population which was somewhere between 3000- 4000.The discussion could be easily check at the page of Brokpa page and Brokpa,Drokpa,Dard, and Shin 2: My personal opinion:

Please these need a special investigation , kautilya3 has always change the Brokpa page according to his opinion, though we have presented a reliable resources ,but he always step back.

3: Aryan valley is not a tourist made name ,it is just a opinion of few people and including kautilya3 , Aryan valley is using by the Indian administration like government officials in their website as well as by reliable newspaper by Indian Express.

commmet 2 ': @Kautilya3: Comment: keep the Aryan valley page .

All the sentence of

Aryan valley
page is cited with reliable book by popular writer and reliable news like Indian Express , It is unfair to delete a page of a region and adding it to a ethic group page , though the Brokpa ethnic group also is according to your opinion, you cherry pick whether which sentence should be there and which sentence should not be there and you add a reference according to you . Though , popular reference book and newspaper cited that Brokpa area believed to be a decendent of Alexander the great , but you always deleted that sentence and it's relaible reference . 

Keep the Aryan valley page because it deserves.

I think kautilya3 has a personal enemy with the

Aryan valley na Brokpa
people, because he don't cited the popular theory of relaible source .he only cherry pick the sentence according to him. Please kautilya3 avoid having personal attack in Brokpa like saying a false statement like " Brokpa has a dravadian gene" which is not true , since Brokpa lived in these Indian subcontinent for hundred of year,they have a gene Which is found in South India and places like jammu . And according to the dna result : Brokpa also suggested a predominance gene which must have arrived from Indian subcontinent.

comment 3: Even though ,It is just a theory about their origin and migrated by popular anthropology, we are not here to varify whether they Brokpa are indeed the decendent of Alexander or not . We are here to discuss about a region which is

Aryan valley
. Now ,the every sentence of Aryan valley is cited with reliable sources and this wikepedia article could be verified easily . So , just look at the citation and close the topic. -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Minaro123 (talk • contribs)

Uh, no. The references do need work as I have been telling you at great length. Have you read the
WP:RS page yet? It's very important that you do that. I think it *can* be sourced but you are not there yet. Elinruby (talk) 18:27, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
Minaro123, I have warned you to desist from making personal attacks. I don't have any "enmity" to the Brokpa people. I am in fact the main author of the Brokpa page. I only object to the "Aryan" propaganda that you apparently subscribe to.
Contrary to your claims, the journal article cited above, summarily disproves the "Aryan" claims.

Should the Brokpa be an offshoot of early “Aryan”/IE speakers, the R1a1-M17 clade would be expected to occur at a high frequency among them. In fact, however, the Brokpa showed low frequencies of NRY-HG-R1a1(M17) (8%).

It also says:

... (various pieces of evidence), all suggest that Brokpa male ancestors might have originated from a deep Indian/south Indian ancestry.

So, please stop this propaganda. Wikipedia is not the place for it. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:38, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Kautilya3: Conclusion "The Y chromosomal studies suggest the Brokpa to be pre-Vedic settlers of the Himalayas, 9000 ybp, with an isolated evolution. The mtDNA profile shows a predominance of mtDNA HG A4 that must have arrived from outside the Indian subcontinent." Please don't show me a one section , why are you hasitate go show me the statement " shows has a gene of mtDNA HG A4 which must have reached out side of India " .

Please don't do cherry picking . And stop bullying . You were not the first Creator of Brokpa page and secondly , After I repeatedly deleting the fake cencus and adding a discussion in talk section of Brokpa , you had to listen me and you needed to step back and changed population to 3000- 4000.

Whenever I added any statement like " Brokpa believed to be a decendent of Alexander the great " cited by aljezerra , atlas of humanity , and other reliable book .,you always deleted it and even though everyone can edit the wikepedia with relaible source, but just because you has more number of edit doesn't mean that you are always true,on the other hand the Westerner wikepedian editor , and other countries wikepedian are very friendly and they never deleted such statement ,but you always do a bully to new editor even though they provided reliable source, Wikepedia is independent, autocratic editor are always harmful. And yes Brokpa page needs to add other useful resource from reliable source but I don't know why you never allow a editor like us to edit it , You always referred back , you have a benefit ,just because you have a more number of edit,no body questions you ,so you cherry pick and say according your mind. And yes I have read the reliable citeria of wikepedia and I respect it .

  • Delete and redirect to Brokpa - Per nomination; NOPAGE applies. I intend to write a section on this topic, at Brokpa, once the AfD is closed. TrangaBellam (talk) 20:24, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@TrangaBellam: The

Aryan valley
region is cited with reliable references like Indian express and also books , please don't delete it ,it is indeed a region

  • Keep or TNT if necessary
@
WP:RS
, if you wrote this after you starting posting journal articles on the talk page.
@Kautilya3: as admirable an ethnological survey as Brokpa may be, it does not give you ownership of all adjacent matters. Minaro123 has provided multiple instances of the district government using the term in its official capacity. I have found others which are secondary. I am explaining primary sources to him/her, but these links do seem to be evidence of an official renaming. Don't bite the newbie, please, or in this case explain to him/her what he/she is genetically, according to anthropologists. Isn't that a bit ethnocentric, to use the ethnological term of art?
Btw, he/she is not asserting the Alexander theory as truth; merely saying that others have done so. He/she hasn't sourced this statement very well on the page, but those sources do seem to exist, and since he/she seems to need another source for his/her further assertion on the talk page that the Alexander theory is untrue, perhaps that one study you keep posting will work for that.
@TrangaBellam: You seem to have mistakenly swept my examples of by-gosh secondary sources discussing the renaming into the collapsed section above titled "arguments to avoid", which I submit that they are not. Please remedy this. For convenience, I am reposting them here: [29][30] The matter is just not as simple as you seem to think, and Kautilya3 seems to be bringing a genetics argument to bear on an administrative matter.
There are nuances that are not in the Aryan valley article, sure, but this can be remedied, and the administrative aspects of the matter are notable whether or not Kautilya3 thinks they have a sound genetic basis. I do see the tourism campaigns, but my links above would seem to discuss them in a scholarly context, and nobody has demonstrated that this or any sort of "propaganda" is the reason for the name change. And supposing that they were, on Wikipedia we discuss propaganda as propaganda, and advertising as advertising. we don't ignore or dismiss them Elinruby (talk) 00:59, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. The topic is likely notable (interesting source, if reliable: [31]). It's possible the article has NPOV issues or such, but I see no need to TNT this, nor am I convinced it fails GNG. The nom's argument, with all due respect, sounds a bit like
    WP:IDONTLIKEIT (perhaps due to said NPOV issues?). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:22, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
    ]
clarification: the TNT suggestion was based on a look at the existing sourcing. The author is new but is responsive. I like that source also but it isn't currently used on the page. Going to work on that personally though. Already did a copy-edit for some English issues -- nothing too unusual for articles about India, just punctuation etc. Elinruby (talk) 04:48, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Piotrus, Your source has "Aryan Valley" in quotation marks in its title. Why do you think that is? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:55, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Kautilya3,Quotation marks around single words can occasionally be used for emphasis, but only when quoting a word or term someone else used. The authors just want to give a special importance to Aryan valley in that sentence that is a reason he used it, you can use quotation marks for emphasis to separate a certain word from the rest of the sentence. -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Minaro123 (talk • contribs)
There is only one mention of "Aryan valley" in the article, which says:

Domestic and international visits to Brogpa villages are now packaged as explorations of the “Aryan Valley.”

There is no emphasis of anything. It is a second-hand mention. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:41, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Commeting to kautilya3 (talk • contribs) The national Reasearch organization,ignac quotes:

Our journey in a Aryan valley have started in 2016, a small initiative was taken when we have a community in Dha village for setting up a Aryan valley museum.

The Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts,a centre for research, academic pursuit and dissemination in the field of the arts. They research organisation have cited the above statement in their paper .[32]. --

The Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts,a centre, further quotes:

 :::

The Aryan valley have a distinct culture , however is gradually influenced by neighbouring culture and effect of civilization ..

and also this , Even the

national researchh agency recognise Aryan valley and use the term to denote the region . --

Rendezvous with the Himalayas to set up a Museum in Aryan valley.

And this is the title they are using it .
The national Reasearch organization,ignac quotes:

The stone utensils of Aryan valley and other utilitarian object are also displayed on a decorative shelf called Tsangs in local langauge.

Aryan valley has its unique history , traditions and culture .

Aryan valley is used by offical of India to recognise the Aryan valley region . And newspapers etc in spite of ladakh subregion gets very low media attention due to its remote area and cut off from the rest of world for 6 month in winter because of huge snowfall at its passes . And this is just a beginning , as of now ,there is a more than enough evidence and reference to show aryan valley as a region . But as time goes by ,more and more media attention would get and new wikepedian will cited source and the Aryan valley articles will keep improving . had Minaro123 (talk) 19:21, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply] 

  The national Reasearch organization,ignac quotes:

Some of the areas of Aryan valley are restricted for outsider since it borders POK and Indian forces are stationed there for keeping watch and vegil in this region.

Some border places of Aryan valley region , are restricted for outsider because of security issue, it clarifies that Aryan valley is indeed a region and it is accepted by a research organisation of The Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts.

[33] 20:08, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

  • Comment When an article has 37 references, and hardly any of them use the term in the title, the odds on the name being made up approach 100%. If the article can be merged elsewhere, that's probably a good idea. If it cannot, then a descriptive title is probably the way to go. --RegentsPark (comment) 17:08, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

RegentsPark Dear sir/Mam, The older name of the Aryan valley in 19 century is Dha hanu country / Dah hanu District / which included all the major villages of the present day Aryan valley that is Dha,Hanu,Darchik and Garkone , these title was used by a author at that time and It has quoted those history . And the same region was also called as Brogyul during 1950 to 2000, and recently , since nearly 2005 upto present, no one seems to use the Brogyul for these region and naturally the place name was known as Aryan valley by thousand of newspaper,journal ,book, government etc .so we should use Aryan valley . Thank youMinaro123 (talk) 05:15, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]


  • Futher comment:
:: Economic and political times weekly  2018, it is a reliable source . It quotes :

I was at the Women’s Empowerment Centre (WEC) in Dar-chiks, a village rich in apricots, almonds, pears, apples andgrapes, situated 70-odd kilometres away from Kargil in Jammuand Kashmir, in the area popularly known as Aryan Valley.The village is one of three major settlements of the Brokpa.

The relaible writer acknowledge that that the area is known as Aryan valley which included , darchik as one of its prominent village .

References are :[34] And [35]Minaro123 (talk) 05:06, 29 December 2022 (UTC) Thank you[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 00:09, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep. The article is about a geographic region, not a people, so the suggestion of a redirect to
    WP:NPOVNAME allows for the use of a POV name if that is what is being used in sources. SpinningSpark 21:44, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
    ]
WP:OR that infests with this page. The whole reason for this bringing this AfD is to save ourselves the need to keep battling this POV for eternity. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 17:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
The whole reason for this bringing this AfD is to save ourselves the need to keep battling this POV for eternity. That is not the purpose of AfD. The subject is notable and meets both
is a surmountable problem and is in no way a reason to delete an article. - Aoidh (talk) 18:04, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply
]
From the article: He named the region as Dha Hanu country, which was independent at the time. Is that, or is it not true? If it is, then it is notable because it was a country. There is a reason that WP:NCOUNTRY does not exist. We don't need it because all countries are notable. Your footnote is irrelevant, that is about the people, not the region so does not affect my keep rationale in the slightest. Nor does whether or not they really are Aryan. SpinningSpark 18:43, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Given your non-neutral language above I suggest you refrain from further comment about what OR "infests" the page, especially since you are again biting its newbie author on the talk because you don't think his source matches what you feel you measured on a map. I suggest a meditation on self-awareness, especially since you just injected your point of view into the lede. I have no particular issue with either of your sources, and have in fact already cited them here, but those points are not yet in the article body, which the lede is supposed to reflect. We all understand that you have strong feelings about this for some reason, but you are not editing in keeping with the values you profess on your talk page. Unclench your jaw from around that newbie. You are being told that your dislike of the article does not translate to a need for Wikipedia to delete it. That said, you don't seem to have actually read the article, either. Of course there is legal recognition. It's the name used by the local councils and territory governments. There are four or five references for this. There can be more if they are needed. I just haven't gotten to writing a section on infrastructure yet. So drop the stick and quit telling Minaro123 that all his sources have to contain the term "Aryan Valley", including those that deal with the previous century. Elinruby (talk) 21:28, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I am a complete outsider to this topic, but have been researching this and working with the article author, Minaro123. I believe the following is a correct summary.

Aryan Valley is in fact a made-up name, not organic, but it was made up by the government ten years ago, which uses it officially to designate a very specific area not just for purposes of tourism but also when describing electrification initiatives, agricultural extension programs and other administrative matters.

The people of the area describe themselves as Minaro. The name Brokpa was given to them by a different ethnic group that is more akin to the Tibetans, and "Brogpa" means "hill-dwellers". Along the Line of Control it applies to a number of unrelated communities that are respectively Buddhist, animist, and several types of Shia. There is another, different, group known as Brokpa in the next state over who herd yaks. The Minaro, a subset of those described as Brokpa in Ladakh, grow fruit and barley and are animists and nominally also Buddhist. This is a cultural designation, not a racial one, as Minaro123 (talk · contribs) feels that the Brogpa across the line of control are not Minaro, because they no longer practice the traditional ways. The Minaro who live in Aryan Valley do not consider themselves Aryan, by the way, although their oral history says that they have distant roots in Europe by way of Gitgit. They do not have a written history. The "Aryan" idea stems, as far as I can tell, from 19th century British amateur ethnologues. The Minaro seem to agree that they are Dards, but neither the Aryans nor the Dards used these names to describe themselves. I have not yet discovered the reasoning behind the Ladakh government choosing this particular name for the region, but it may (my speculation) have been an attempt to differentiate it from nearby areas of Kashmir being marketed as tourist destinations by the Pakistani government. It should be noted that the Brogpa are a minority culture in Ladakh. There is a controversy that can be explored about the name, and should, but the name does in fact designate a specific region within Ladakh, whose components Mindaro has enumerated at my request on the talk page. There is also a section on the talk page where I try to enunciate the distinctions between the various overlapping ethnic group names.

I thought we had established the government use of the name, and had moved on to looking for secondary sources that described the region. However, Minaro123 has provided several links to local English-language news, and work on the article can focus on this aspect of the name for a while, if this is still a concern. Hope that helps. Elinruby (talk) 15:08, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Numerically in favor of keeping, but there's a lot of poor votes, a couple of non-bolded comments that are clearly supporting deletion, and very little explicit analysis of notability. No prejudice against speedy renomination. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:25, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Deen the Great vs. Walid Sharks

Deen the Great vs. Walid Sharks (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination
)
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Fails

WP:EVENTS. No evidence of significant coverage (most of the reporting I found was by DAZN themselves), as well as no evidence that this event will be historically significant. ♡RAFAEL♡(talk) 17:52, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]

Strongly keep: ESPN reported on Greg Hardy being on the card. It will be of historical significant as this card includes the defeat of Hasim Rahman Jr. to Greg Hard. As well as the location to where KSI announced he is fighting Dillon Danis. You could argue with alot of other boxing articles having a lack of historical significant while this being the most tactical YouTube match thus far. GhaziTwaissi (talk) 07:53, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I personally don't think an ex football player and MMA fighter taking on a boxer who is best known for NOT fighting Jake Paul is historically significant. I've noticed a theme that these YouTube crossover events usually don't meet GNG or EVENTS, and this appears no different. ♡RAFAEL♡(talk) 21:12, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
you could argue with alot of other boxing matches. Mayweather vs Moore, Thor vs Eddie Hall, etc. This was one of the first full professional crossover events that I'd consider significant as well as the Dillon Danis encounter at the Weigh-in which I will add now. GhaziTwaissi (talk) 08:35, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: ESPN covered this, multiple big sources reported this, Bloody Elbow, MMAMania, MMA Fighting and more had live coverage. I say keep. D MCCG (talk) 15:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 18:21, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:24, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep Notable fight (event). I think passes
    WP:GNG. Gothamk (talk) 05:58, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
    ]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 00:04, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Remove I see some heavy bias because of KSI's involvement with Misfits promotion, as most of the information on this article rely on a single source and have not verified information with other reputable sports publications. However, I can't see why the creation of possibly a larger Misfits article wouldn't counter these issues. Sure, we would have to clean it of single-source edits but I think that would be the best compromise. MF & DAZN 3 was a small event with little notoriety outside the influencer boxing community, and I believe there is good justification for it's removal.--Jsraynault (talk) 03:03, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete this page. Irrelevant and not historically significant. These KSI fans are creating these pages for no reason and littering Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.42.114.132 (talk) 03:42, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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The result was keep. RL0919 (talk) 15:49, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Steve Boone

Steve Boone (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Boone is solely notable as a member of The Lovin' Spoonful. Redirect to that article is recommended. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:37, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep based on co-authorship of two top 10 hits (one of which was Billboard #1), albeit with the Spoonful, but often that is criteria enough. And although I'm unwilling to do the research, I'd be surprised if there wasn't pre-internet age reportage of his post-Spoonful arrest as a drug smuggler, FWIW. ShelbyMarion (talk) 17:44, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lightburst, I am not having success in finding sources (beyond blog-type ones and chatty fan articles) so I would appreciate your listing some of what you've found. Thanks. Lamona (talk) 02:52, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to The Lovin' Spoonful. 99% of this article's content is either from primary sources or sources that focus on The Lovin' Spoonful. Much like Lamona, I am also not finding any reliable secondary sources that have in-depth coverage of Mr. Boone as an individual. Fred Zepelin (talk) 19:53, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, article has good sources and he his band is very famous. Davidgoodheart (talk) 22:51, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The "good sources" are all about the band, and notability is not inherited, so this "keep" doesn't offer any rationale based on policy. Fred Zepelin (talk) 02:44, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment @
WP:BLP1E applies, and a redirect to the band article is the proper response. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 15:00, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply
]
That is a bit like saying Keith Richards is only famous because he is a member of Rolling Stones. Lightburst (talk) 03:50, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not even close. Keith Richards has solo records, projects with other artists, a host of individual honors, etc, and all of that is documented in volumes of reliable sources. Steve Boone isn't in any sources that aren't about The Lovin' Spoonful. It's not even apples and oranges. It's apples and skyscrapers. Fred Zepelin (talk) 15:25, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 22:16, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 00:02, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep There is adequate coverage of his career and activities independent of The Lovin' Spoonful, for example his ownership of the Blue Seas recording studio and authorship of a memoir. Here is a RS review of the latter; there are probably others. Jfire (talk) 23:40, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a deletion review
). No further edits should be made to this page.
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