Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/2007/Promoted

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Evacuation of East Prussia

An article completely rewritten in the past month, which should meet all requirements for A-class in my opinion. --

• Well Done, I commend your update of the article. A few questions though:
  • Why are there no causualties for the Soviet forces in the infobox?
    • Because there were no Soviet civilians killed during evacuation of East Prussia;
  • The caption for Image:3c13916v.jpg seems to be written in an odd font; it looks decidedly out of place with the other image captions. Is there any way to fix that?
    •  Done fixed;
  • In the section "Königsberg" you have the line "According to a NKVD report received by Lavrentiy Beria, the German civilians who left Königsberg and reached the Reich's territories, were not treated by far well, receiving only 180 grams of bread per day" Would it be at all possible to provide a standard unit measurement for this amount of bread?
    • What would be a standard unit measurement in your opinion??
      • I mean a measurement in pounds or ounces (a measurement in the standard system of measurement) to supplement the metric unit measurement. TomStar81 (Talk) 21:35, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • In the International System of Units the measurement unit for Mass is kilograme, which is 0,001 grames. I do not really know what "standard measurement unit" means.
      • What I mean is a unit of measurement that people living in the United States. I believe the U.S. doesn't adhere to the standards of the International System of Units, so I have no idea what 180 kilograms equates to in from a U.S. perspective. TomStar81 (Talk) 03:23, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • Please consider
          talk) 12:49, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply
          ]
  • The first line in the section "Crimes" has the line "The mass rapes made by the Soviets in Königsberg, led to a severe psihological damage to the entire German population in East Prussia." Is "psihological" a misspelling?
    • Yep, correct.  Done
• Other than this, it looks like A-class material. Good Job! TomStar81 (Talk) 18:11, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You'll find my answers after each point. Cheers, --

Just some thoughts. Traveling the rest of the year so apologies I can't contribute more substantially. —PētersV (talk) 20:12, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• At the second point, I changed a bit there, but I would say I don't know if that actually needs anything else to be changed. --
  talk) 20:31, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support. Cla68 (talk) 21:26, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I do still find it a little bit confusing (crimes section) how Nazi propaganda provoked Soviet behavior (invasion is clearer of course). —PētersV (talk) 21:35, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Oppose-one sided, dominated by just one controversial book, lacks sources to confirm several claims, lacks vital background information towards the existance and activity of the German population in the area. I will list detailed list soon.--Molobo (talk) 22:42, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For example:I am particulary interested in death toll estimate, and if there is any other estimate then Beevor's and if the word "killed" is proper one, or if the deaths were also made by famine, bad weather etc. --Molobo (talk) 22:50, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• • Why do you call it a "controversial book"?? Which claims do you believe they need sources? I also don't think that wiki is interested in your particular opinions. Please try to be more specific.. --
    talk) 23:42, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply
    ]

I also don't think that wiki is interested in your particular opinions., it it wouldn't there wouldn't be an Assesment.Basically the whole article is about claims made in Beevor's book, perhaps it should be moved to an article about, while this article would be expanded with more sources ?--Molobo (talk) 00:33, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please have look more carefully at the article and see that we have cited another 10 historians/authors besides Beevor. While Beevor has certainly written the best book regarding this issue, I see no problem citing him all over the article. --

I don't believe there's any controversy that the German population of Königsberg was brutally treated and purged, that the territory was 100% Russified, and its Germanic heritage wiped clean. "Lacks vital background information towards the existance and activity of the German population?" There are doubts Königsberg was German? Would we need references to prove the French inhabit Paris?

   Denouncing authoritative sources as needing to be cited as the opinion of one sole author (which is what Molobo suggests) is getting to be quite lame on the part of editors who don't like what an authoritative source says. —PētersV (talk) 17:09, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There are doubts Königsberg was German? Because it originally wasn't ? The place only became German due to ethnic cleansing and genocide of native population by Teutonic Knights and settlement of German colonists. The current version completely avoids mentioning the rather curious fact, that Germans removed from East Prussia weren't native people of the region and their existance there was result of ethnic cleansing and genocide.--Molobo (talk) 18:20, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

and its Germanic heritage wiped clean The correct sentence should be either 'heritage of German conquest of the region' or 'heritage of Germanisation of the region'. After all the Germans invaded, ethnicly cleansed and germanised the area later.

I don't believe there's any controversy that the German population of Königsberg was brutally treated and purged Brutally is POV-compared to what Germany was doing, the Geramn population was treated very humanly, neither was it target of mass extermination like Jews or Poles were for example by using gas chambers, nor was German population declared sub-human. Considering the circumstances it would be proper to name the treatment as "light under circumstances of Second World War and German attempts to exterminate whole nations, rather then face extermination and classification as subhumans like Jews or Poles faced from German hands, Germans themselfs were just moved or allowed to move to their new borders".--Molobo (talk) 18:25, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That is your opinion. However, it is not supported by the literature on this topic, which makes it clear that East Prussia's civilian population suffered terribly during the Soviet advance and during the early days of the occupation. As this article is focused on the experiance of German civilians in East Prussia there's no need for it to include detailed comparisons with the experiances of other groups of civilians during the war. I'd suggest that you read

talk) 23:18, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

"That is your opinion"

"In The Volksdeutsche of Eastern Europe and the Collapse of the Nazi Empire, 1944-1945, Doris Bergen analyzes the immediate and long-term effects of population policy on the ethnic Germans of eastern Europe which, in her view, was disastrous. Bergen notes that the ethnic Germans of this area found their fate intimately linked to, and affected by, the German war effort and the regime's genocidal policy in more than material ways. Not only did Nazi resettlement policy cause a permanent shift of population transfers and ethnic boundaries, it also caused the erasure of ethnic coexistence. During the earlier years of the war, the Nazis emphasized racial hostility and competition, but at war's end, when it was fairly clear that the Germans would lose, ethnic Germans who had benefited from the earlier policy simply refused to abandon these ideas and found themselves, as a result, struggling to find a satisfactory place within their new communities.[17]" So it is clear the article has to be expanded on reasons of the conditions on the population and explain it under the context of WW2. -Molobo (talk) 02:35, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support This is a good article and I think that it's A-class. If you're interested in taking it to FA class it would need a bit of work first, however. I'd suggest that you give the article a rigorous copy-edit and merge the 'References' and 'Further reading' sections. The proportion of citations from Beevor's book is perhaps undesirable, but it is a very well regarded and recent book and counts as a reliable source. Christopher Duffy's 'Red Storm on the Reich' is excellent and is a standard work on the military aspects of this topic you might wish to consult. --
  talk) 23:07, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Well, never expected I would support Molobo on anything. Sorry, but the language still leaves a lot to be desired: "also ... as well", "were ready in second half of 1944", "their houses putted on fire", "refugees trains", and no, I cannot correct them myself, because sometimes the error is not purely language-connected and I do not know what is meant ("This coupled with the panic caused by the speed of the Soviet advances, those killed in the cross-fire, and the inclement winter weather, resulted in the death of many thousands of refugees." - "Neisse region, of South Berlin"). Yes, there is a problem with Beevor (remember "every woman between 8 and 84 had been raped" - is straight from the Nazi propaganda about Nemmersdorf, and Polish and Russian women in concentration camps being raped, echoes the Nazi propaganda aimed at the inhabitants of Poland, warning them - before Nemmersdorf! - that the Russian soldiers would rape their women). The first map in the article shows the borders of Prussia in 1871, which are not coincidentally very close to the borders of Prussia inside Nazi Germany after the annexation of the corridor at the end of 1939: any use of such a map should be accompanied by at least a note that it was the Nazi view of things (East Prussia in its internationally accepted borders in August 1939 was actually a bit bigger than on that map). If you use Beevor to that extent, you must also make sure that you do not have him contradict himself: one reference has him say 8.5 million people left their homes in East Prussia (making the error worse by later stating that those were only the women and children), another one says "A population which had stood at 2.2 million in 1940 was reduced to 193,000 at the end of May 1945." In fact, both figurea are wrong: in 1940, East Prussia had 2.5 million inhabitants.--Paul Pieniezny (talk) 00:37, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support nomination by
  User:Eurocopter tigre. Good job by all involved! The article is indeed much better than a month before, and has (almost) reached A-level: well illustrated, well documented, well referenced. Language and style still need some cleanup, and the constructive criticism and concerns raised above need to be addressed (especially if you want to take it eventually to the FA level), but this (I mean, the A-level tune-up) is surely solvable in the next few days, right? Turgidson (talk) 19:17, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Support I apologize for the extremely long delay in getting back here, I got a new PC for Christmas and have been working very hard to get programs I need onto the new tower. Fast work on the updates, BTW, I am happy with the article in its current form. TomStar81 (Talk) 05:21, 29 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

1962 South Vietnamese Presidential Palace bombing

This article is about two South Vietnamese Air Force officers who decided to rebel and drop bombs on the Presidential Palace. It is a rather small event, since only two of them were involved and and there was not a lot of planning - instead of carrying out an air raid against the Vietcong they decided instead to bomb the Palace. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:38, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose for now Some further copyediting is needed, especially for the lead section. Some of the tiny details should be moved to the sections below. OTH, the first paragraph at the 'aftermath' section has to be moved somewhere up. -- FayssalF - ^{Wiki me up®} 17:47, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have copyedited the article and moved the first part of the aftermath, which was actually the result of the attack. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 09:06, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fayssal posted this on my talk page. I hope he didn't forget to check back in here. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:25, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No reason to keep my 'oppose' stance as i believe the issues discussed at this page have been dealt with. Thanks Blnguyen. -- FayssalF - ^{Wiki me up®} 13:10, 14 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Comment Agree with FayssalF's analysis. Cla68 (talk) 00:44, 11 December 2007 (UTC) Cla68 (talk) 23:59, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I'm not sure whether this is under-cited or not. Do people think it needs more citations, as there are good historical sources listed at the bottom? Buckshot06 (talk) 01:10, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Citations seem ok to me. Cla68 (talk) 01:12, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Citations seem appropriate to me. It does need a quick copyedit though, and a bit of rearranging. Good work so far, (as always). Woody (talk) 16:16, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. this does it for me. Good work Woody (talk) 10:49, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• I'm not a member of the Project, but I support per Woody's comments. The copyedits by Blnguyen are simply excellent. — Rudget _{Contributions} 19:31, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Yen Bai mutiny

The most notable attack of the

• Oppose - This article doesn't have a concise lead section, and lacks images/other supporting materials. --
  talk) 19:19, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Comment I have found an infobox, a few images that a relevant and fixed the content issues. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:31, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

*Comment you should provide some refs for the numbers in the infobox. Still, this article needs more images/supporting materials, especially in the lasr 3-4 sections. --

• Reply:Okey doke. I did provide refs for the numbers in the box explicitly. I didn't originally since it just repeated the part in the main body. Unfortunately, the second half of the article is about the military reforms and safeguards and new military regulations introduced after the mutiny to stop further uprisings. As such it did not really discuss any people, so there weren't any people pics that are relevant (I did look up French Governor General of the time, but all the books at User:Blnguyen/Viet library and others at my uni library focus on what the Vietnamese did against the French rule, rather than the more mundane things of the the French bureaucrats going about their day to day business. I googled "Pierre Pasquier" up and didnt find anything except his name on a list of governors. The textbooks I have don't even mention him at all let alone a picture, only the research paper did. So there's no pics of any French people. I went to the VNQDD website and they don't have any pics of VNQDD people at all. The VNQDD were a secret org - Yen Bai was their first attack - so there are no photos of them, except one of the leader, which is already there. This left me with only the possibility of using maps in discussing the geopolitical things of the troop transfer – I added two of these. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:27, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support - major improvements have been made so i'm supporting it now, even if I don't completely trust this last-minute adjustements. --
  talk) 07:32, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Support Comment. There's a lot of good information in the article and no major grammatical mistakes. The issue I see is that the "French Reaction" section is way longer than the section on the actual mutiny. In fact, it looks like the reaction section could be a separate article. Perhaps the article would look more balanced if you moved the "Background of Vietnamese troops in the French colonial army" into the "Background and Planning" section. If you have any pictures, even recent ones, of the locations where the actions took place, you could use those as images. Also, you might include how the mutiny affected Vietnamese history up to the point that the French left Vietnam altogether. Cla68 (talk) 03:36, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, the section about military reforms caused by the mutiny was much longer than the section about the mutiny and the resulting direct punishments, so I significantly pruned the reform section so that it only contained most of the big facts rather than all the reasoning into them. That increased the picture density, simply from the article shrinking by 25%. As for the images, I went to the Vietnamese wiki-article on

Yen Bai province and followed the link to the provincial government website, which was broken. So that rules out PD-gov images from Vietnam.Blnguyen (bananabucket) 05:05, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

I left the background of using native troops in the second half, since it was more related to the resulting military reforms rather than being a root cause of the mutiny. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 05:46, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I reiterated the total lack of impact the mutiny had in damaging French control on Vietnam. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 05:46, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, A-Class material. Flows well, cited well, lack of images understandable. Well done.
  talk) 11:12, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]

I got about four from differnet books for you. :) Blnguyen (bananabucket) 06:57, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• • Some parts of the article, particualrly the lower half, appear to be unwikifed. Can anything be linked to that hasn't already been linked previosly?

Most of the second half of the article is about Truong Dinh and his correspondence with Emperor Tu Duc and

Phan Thanh Gian and his defiance of their orders. Most of the article is dissecting their letters and so forth. Not many properly nouns etc crop up that could be linked. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 06:57, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

• Otherwise everything looks good! Well Done! TomStar81 (Talk) 08:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support TomStar81 (Talk) 07:09, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. But I would suggest you consider adding an infobox at the start of the article, either a mil bio or another type of bio infobox. Cla68 (talk) 03:44, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Done, thanks, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 05:53, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support --
  talk) 19:40, 29 November 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support
  talk) 11:13, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]

2007 United States Air Force nuclear weapons incident

Respectfully submit this article for A-class review. It has undergone a peer review which has been archived [1]. Cla68 (talk) 06:48, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Those date ranges are still a bother but probably not much can be done. Other peer review comments acted on so I stick by my earlier contention that it's ready for A-class. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:36, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support looks good. TomStar81 (Talk) 22:30, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - nothing jumps out at me that needs attention. -MBK004 (talk) 01:42, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Viet Nam Quoc Dan Dang

This article is about the Vietnamese Nationalist Party, a revolutionary militant organisation that fought against the French colonisation of Vietnam from 1927 until 1954. It's most notable attack was the

• Support.Comment. If you'll cite the two paragraphs in the "Assassination of Bazin" section I can support. Very well-written and informative article. Cla68 (talk) 23:56, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, it'll take two seconds, but I originally didn't per SS, but ok.... Blnguyen (bananabucket) 23:59, 20 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support I supported this some days ago, although apparently my save did not save. Sorry about that :/ TomStar81 (Talk) 23:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Battle of Vaslui

A very nice article on the one of

• Support. A very good article, the only suggestions I have is that the orthodox table of content is used. Kyriakos (talk) 20:28, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. Good work. One suggestion is to move the quote from the intro to the aftermath section, but it's no big deal. Cla68 (talk) 07:47, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Le Quang Tung

The commander of the Army of the Republic of Vietnam Special Forces under Ngo Dinh Diem. It is quite short, but this is all that I have been able to find from all of User:Blnguyen/Viet library (but it was pointed out to me that Tent pegging is an A-class). Unfortunately there is one image of him on the internet, but its source cannot be confirmed, so I have only added pictures of his contemporaries. Thanks, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 05:46, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support: Meets all criteria. --
  talk) 19:42, 18 November 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support. Looks good. Cla68 (talk) 07:38, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Battle of the Gebora

This is a very new article, only a few weeks old, but is fully referenced, comprehensive, has PD images and I don't think there are any outstanding MOS issues. Hope to take it to FA eventually, so help on a copy-edit if anyone wants to volunteer would be appreciated, if the prose isn't quite there. Carre 08:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, as it meets all criteria. --
  Eurocopter tigre 21:24, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support per Eurocopter tigre. Well done. TomStar81 (Talk) 08:21, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

USS Illinois (BB-65)

After recently expanding this article from a Stub to B-class along the lines of the other canceled

• Comment A few things I see that may help improve the article:
  • Find a cite for the NROTC note; that can probably be accomplished by checking the University of Illinois' webpage. Without a cite I fear that information may come under the larger heading of popular culture, and that will create problems down the line.
  • If I were you I would consider removing the second to last battleship paragraph; in this particular case the information there isn't particularly notable to the ship.
  • Check to see that all information in the ship table is correct; I usually find one or things carried over from the last ship I happened to be working on.
  • See if you can find out anything about why Illinois wasn't considered for a rebuild; I doubt anything will turn up, but you never know what you may discover without really meaning to (NOTE: I won't hold this suggestion against you if nothing turns up).
• Other than that, everything looks to be in order. Well Done. TomStar81 (Talk) 07:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

NROTC cite: I have taken a look at the webpages for the university, the stadium, and the university's military science department with no luck in finding any blurb at all about the bell, let alone the traditions associated with it. The bell and its location are notable, but do I need a cite for it even with the picture? I have also left a message at the talk page of the editor who added the information to the article. Hopefully it isn't original research, because the bell itself is notable. Thanks a bunch, Tom.

Second to last paragraph: Removed.

Ship Table Figures: I haven't seen any irregularities.

Why no rebuild?: Unfortunately I don't have access to my library of maritime history books for another week, and the university library is severely lacking in this subject. I would guess that since the Illinois was only 22% complete when canceled compared to the 73% of Kentucky, that would be a major factor along with cost of completion. NOTE: This is just speculation, but it probably isn't far from what really happened.

-MBK004 16:28, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Comment. As soon as you cite the University of Illinois information at the end of the article, I'll change this to a support. Cla68 07:40, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See the above part that Tom has raised.Tom has found your cite.-MBK004 16:28, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Found an NROTC cite for the bell. Everything else appears to be in order. Well Done. TomStar81 (Talk) 19:13, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: I found it very irritating to have all the common properties of the Iowa class repeated in conjunctive form: "Illinois’s main battery would have consisted of nine 16 inch (406 mm)/50 caliber Mark 7 naval guns, which could hurl 2,700 lb armor piercing shells some 24 miles (39 km). Her secondary battery would have consisted of ten 5 inch (127 mm)/38 caliber guns, which could fire at targets up to 9 miles (14 km) away....". Since the ship never received its armament, I think a reference to the Iowas should be enough. --Stephan Schulz 15:52, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • How do the others who have reviewed and lent their support feel about this?-MBK004 16:10, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Under normal circumsances I would agree with you and support the reccomendation that these refernces to the armament be removed; in this case though, the armament information helps the article by giving it more meat than it would otherwise have. I therefore do not see a reason to remove the information in this case since there is no service history for the ship. Thats my opinion on the matter. TomStar81 (Talk) 18:34, 16 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Phan Dinh Phung

An article on the 19th century Vietnamese guerrilla leader who battled the colonisation of French Indochina. Has pics, infoboxes refs and so forth. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:36, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Meets all criteria. Good Job. TomStar81 (Talk) 18:53, 12 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. Nice work. Cla68 23:30, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. --
  Eurocopter tigre 21:26, 14 November 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]

I've just been developing this article as part of my series on battleships (battleship and ironclad warship already FAs, dreadnought next on the list). I think it is now pretty comprehensive and comprehensively sourced - am very happy with the way it's turned out. A peer review was brief but helpful. The Land 18:37, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment — Fascinating stuff. Something that might be helpful is expanding the lede to include more about the development of the type. As the article says, the history of the class is somewhat confused. That being said, you might find it useful to change the first paragraph of the lede to something like this:

A pre-dreadnought is a battleship of the type designed between the mid-1890s and 1905. Designed as replacements for

ironclads

, typical characteristics of the class include X, X, and X. The X-class ship best typifies the class, and was built in X.

That's my suggestion, and it'd help give an overview of the kind of ship we're looking at here without going into the complex development history. JKBrooks85 20:05, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment(s)
  • Concur with the above; I would rework the lead to read something like "A predreadnought was a battleship design implemented in 1890s to replace monitor-type warships. Pre-dreadnoughts were characterized by two heavy turrets at the for and aft ends of the ship and an array of secondary battery guns aligned on either side of the ship. They were rendered absoletle in 1905 with the commissioning of HMS dreadnought, the first battleship to have an all big gun layout arrayed along the ceter of the ship, and were subsequently phased out in favor of dreadought type battleships. Although considered absolete, a few predreadnoughts did see service in WWI and WWII."
  • Alternate you pictures; you have a butload of photos on the right hand side of the article and very few on the left; on my moniter (I think about 1200xwhatever-the-number-is) the result is a rather large area of blank white space.
  • I will add any other suggestions I can find tommorow should the oppertunity to do so present itself; right now though it is hard to see my computer screen (unsuprising since I have been staring at it for the last eight hours nonstop). It looks good though, keep it up! TomStar81 (Talk) 09:44, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• • • • I've moved the lead about to bit so it's clearer from the first paragraph what the article is about: also I've alternated some of the pictures. Thanks! The Land 19:14, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Looks good. Cla68 20:54, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support good article, enjoyed reading it. TomStar81 (Talk) 03:21, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support — Just one comment: I'd recommend including the fact that the Royal Sovereign had barbettes instead of turrets for its big guns. Otherwise, the article doesn't include any reason why it shouldn't be considered the first pre-Dreadnaught battleship. JKBrooks85 15:15, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  You mean, like, "The subsequent Royal Sovereign class of 1889 retained barbettes" ;-) Thank you anyway! The Land 16:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Fascinating and well written expansion to an important article. I corrected the two red links that you had remaining in the text. --MChew 16:48, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

USS Kentucky (BB-66)

In my ongoing quest to improve the Iowa class battleship articles here I have recently expanded the article USS Kentucky (BB-66), and although there is little chance it will clear FAC I would like to see the article improved to A-class. To that end, I have decided to make use of our A-class review as well as the WP:SHIPS review to get additional input as to how the article may be improved upon. Note that I am in school at the moment, so if I appear slow to respond here have patients [patience]; its likely school work has me tied up. TomStar81 (Talk) 10:44, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Oppose for now this is a very promising article, but it's not yet A-class. I spotted spelling mistakes throughout the article and the half-paragraph speculating on what she would have been armed with if she'd been completed and had survived until the 1980s seems to be crystal ball gazing given that she was cancelled over 20 years before any such upgrade would have occurred (do the citations here support the claim that more than 4 Iowas would have been reactivated and upgraded had they existed?). Also, is it possible to expand the discussion of the proposal to complete her as a BBG? - this looks really interesting but the current text doesn't say what kind of missiles it was proposed fitting her with or how serious this proposal was. A discussion of why the Navy remained at least semi-committed to completing the ship after 1944 given that it was clear that BBs were obsolete might also be interesting. --
  Nick Dowling 11:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
  • On a first come, first adressed basis: My spelling errors are legendary; it wouldn;t be the same if I updated an article and did leave 3200 mispelled words and phrases in (incidentally, thats why I have my own spelling award :) I base the updating on the rhetoric of the 600-ship navy; Reagan wanted as many capital ships as he could get in the field into the field to bring back the power of the Navy. This factored into the recommissioning of older aircraft carriers to form CVBGs, it stands to reason that the USN would have reactivated the other to Iowas to gain an additional pair of BBBGs. I will conceded your point though that this is speculation, although I prefer to think of it more along the lines of an educated guess. My own research into the BBG idea has turned up artwork showing Kentucky with two forward mounted turrets and a pair of what look like Mk 26 twin ar missile launchers in the back; I am working to track down the weapon systems. The missiles would likely have been terriers (based on post WWII testing with the converted battleship USS Mississippi), and as before I am looking into tracking that down. On the last note: I have no idea; it remains a mystery, but the sense I get from reading the material is that the Navy was trying to get a 3/4 complete battleship completed becuase it was 3/4 of the way complete (illinois was only 22% complete when scrapped). I intend to look into it more; this is just a for starters kind of thing (mostly to cheer me up; I feel like I been out of the loop lately) :/ TomStar81 (Talk) 11:21, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment I'll change my vote to support if you take out the material about what Kentucky would have been armed with if she had been built then reactivated in the 1980s. This appears to be your speculation as it doesn't address the possibility that even if she had been built she could have been retired and scrapped, reactivated but not not rearmed or simply not reactivated. For the material to be included I think that you need to find a reference which confirms that more than 4 Iowas would have been reactivated if they had been available and that the ships would have all been re-armed with that armament. --
      Nick Dowling 07:57, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply
      ]
      • Alright, you win. I have (reluctantly) removed the information about the hypothosised reactivation of the 600-ship Navy. Is this better? TomStar81 (Talk) 08:41, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • Yep - I've changed my vote to support the nomination. --
          Nick Dowling 08:49, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply
          ]
• Oppose for now I've cleaned up a fair amount of spelling errors and made some minor grammar improvements this morning, but this still needs some work. I made two content-related changes that you should review to make sure I'm not off my rocker: (1) I've reworded the bit about considering Montana-like design to avoid the awkward "protection system...for protection"; and (2) I changed "President Ronald Reagan's Navy Secretary John Lehman's 600-ship Navy plan" to "President Ronald Reagan's 600-ship Navy plan" for brevity. A few questions I had:

• I wasn't clear on why half of the specs box was filled out, but the armament, armor, etc was not.
• "Kentucky was the second to last battleship constructed by the US Navy" This would benefit from rewording to make it clear; 'constructed' reads as though she was finished.
• "holds the unique honor of being the highest numbered battleship hull to have been under construction but not completed" Sure this is unique, but how on earth is it an honor?

This is an interesting article; I'd be happy to give it another go-over once it's had a few more eyes on it. Maralia 15:06, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• • Thank you for correcting my god-awful spelling. I wish I could say I was a great speller, but I ain't, and thats all there be to it. In answer to you comments/questions: Your content related changes are fine, they don't change the meaning any. On the issue of the spec box: It would be easier for logistical reasons to think of this article as the third in a series of three articles: the armament article and class article disucss in length the particlaurs of there respective fields; hence the reason why this articles seems short. I will reword the other two lines you tagged for calrity as you suggested.
• Comments - glad to see another Iowa article from TomStar, are you going to get around to Battleships in World War II any time? ;)

I have removed the Neon Genesis Cruft.

I am not sure www.voodoo.cz is a reliable source; nor www.navysite.de; nor hazegray.org. They all seem to be basically self-published.

Structure: Much of the material in 'history' overlaps that in 'construction' - unsurprising perhaps since her history is the history of her construction. Is it worth merging these sections?

Regards, The Land 17:50, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• I'm getting there (eventually :-) I forgot to remove the evagellion part, thanks for doing that. navysite.de is an unofficial US navy site but does have information on incidents that US ships have been involed in that DANFS tends to omit. Hazygrey.org, navysite.de and voodoo.cz are used to verify the DANFS and NVR material, if everyone agrees with everyone else then I know that the sources are reliable, and thats why they are present. TomStar81 (Talk) 23:36, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• And you caught a huge error I made; all instances of "voodoo" were supposed to have been cited to an essay by a retired US Navy officer, these have since been corrected. Thank you! TomStar81 (Talk) 23:51, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose - The article is definetely too short and it certainly doesn't look like an A-class in my opinion. --
  Eurocopter tigre 17:02, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
  • FWIW, I don't think we've ever insisted on a particular length as a requirement for A-Class status, provided that all the other requirements were met. We do have some quite short articles that have passed the review successfully, in any case. Kirill 18:16, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • As I noted above, it would be easier to think of this article as the third article in a series of three, with the class page discussion the general history and characteristics of these six battleships and the armement page discussing the weapon systems used by these battleships/ When viewed like this Kentucky is actually very well sourced, with rougly 100 citations across three seperate pages. TomStar81 (Talk) 03:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. Comment. I think the article is almost there. I believe if you added some background text about the development of the Iowa class battleship you would then have enough material (two paragraphs) to add a "Background" section to the article. Then, you could follow that with "Construction" and rename the "History" section as "Fate" or "Scrapping" or something like that and the article would be complete. Length doesn't matter as long as the subject is covered. Cla68 21:02, 5 November 2007 (UTC) I moved a couple of things around. I may have screwed up a couple of the citations and I can't figure out how to fix them. Sorry about that. Cla68 21:15, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I took a stab at implamenting your suggested changes, I may play the wording in the sections now since it does sound wierd. TomStar81 (Talk) 22:46, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Morotai Mutiny

Self-nom for an article that's been around for a bit and garnered some favourable comment from colleagues. It describes a little-known but fascinating episode in Australia's military aviation history. Believe it meets the B-Class criteria pretty easily and could well be worth a nod for the next level. Cheers, Ian Rose 14:20, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment — Fascinating stuff. Is there anything about MacArthur's reaction to the incident, if he had one? If not, what was the Australian public's opinion, or was the incident too small to get wide coverage? JKBrooks85 18:38, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hadn't come across any recorded reaction from Macarthur before and after rechecking refs today, still nought. However, as noted in the final para, the incident was reported at the time - will see about incorporating a quote or two from the Australian press. Cheers, Ian Rose 08:08, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Some press reaction now incorporated. Cheers, Ian Rose 22:29, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. There is an infobox you could use for this article if you want to. It's the infobox that's used for military accident or friendly fire articles like the 2007 United States Air Force nuclear weapons incident. Otherwise appears to meet the criteria and is a very interesting article. Cla68 21:05, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks mate. I suspected there might be an infobox that could suit but never discovered one in my occasional searches - will check that one out. Cheers, Ian Rose 21:22, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support An excellent article which does a great job of explaining a complex and somewhat ambigious topic. --
  Nick Dowling 09:20, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Oppose It is a well written article, but an A class article is supposed to have almost all the requirements of an FA article, and I'm afraid this one doesn't quite qualify. As mentioned earlier, the infobox would be a good addition for the article. Also, it needs more in line citations, as the first isn't until half way through the 'Background' section. I would also suggest breaking down multiple citations by page number where available. Finally, are there any related articles that can be listed at the bottom?Cromdog 19:08, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's worth pointing out that infoboxes are not a requirement for FA candidates, and the presence of see-also links is actually a common objection to them. Kirill 19:20, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I was not aware of that...however, I think it still needs more inline cites. If others think that's not enough to hold it back from A-class, so be it, but I think it's enough.
      • Regardless of it not being a requirement, I did check out the infobox and appropriate parameters and I really don't think it adds much to the article that isn't succinctly put in the introductory paragraph. The request for citations for the first para of Background was perfectly valid and I've added a couple. I do think the article is well-stocked with citations; on the odd occasion that only one is used for an entire para, that's simply because one source covers all that info. Re. page numbers, again I think the granularity is pretty reasonable, many being individual pages or fairly narrow ranges. The main exception is Alexander's "Cleaning the augean stables" which has no page numbers but is available online. Given the above, Cromdog, do you still have serious/specific objections that I can try and address? Cheers, Ian Rose 22:29, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• I like the improved citing. I don't see any problems right now...I'll re-read the entire article when I'm a bit more awake to double-check the grammer and prose. I checked that info-box and agree, it's useless here (possibly everywhere...seems pointless), however, since this incident was related to WWII, are there any category boxes that might be added? Just curious, and I withdraw my objection. It seems to me that the whole thing has been fully explained out, fairly well.Cromdog 22:56, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Looks good. Well worth the reading. TomStar81 (Talk) 06:36, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Richard Williams (RAAF officer)

Self-nom: this article is currently rated B-Class and has undergone a peer review which produced some useful observations and modifications. Believe it's ready for A-Class and would be aiming for FA if it passes the next hurdle, so any comments that could help to achieve that end are very welcome. Cheers, Ian Rose 03:22, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Very good text flow, good lead, good use of images, well referenced

Images

• Recommended that free images use the {{information}} template to ensure that all of the required information is in place
• Ensure that images tagged as {{PD-because}} are properly tagged
• Image:Richard Williams.jpg is marked simply as public domain and has no source; ensure this is correct, update it or find another image

References

• The References section uses citation templates; very good use
• But, the actual cites are a mix—some use templates and some don't; templates should be consistently applied

Content

• "Air force" is used in upper and lower case; ensure this is proper
  • There are a couple of instances where it could be read as either the Air Force or an air force, but none I believe where it could be taken solely as an air force - therefore I've made all instances proper case.
• In several places, ranks not used as a specific title are upper case—normally these would be lower case (this may be one of the British English differences though)
  • I'll admit to not being certain of the standard in
    WP:MILHIST articles so have consistently used proper case whether it's part of a title or simply mention of the rank in general. Happy to modify if someone can point out the relevant guideline or convention. Cheers, Ian Rose 08:19, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    • You want WP:CAPS, see the lead and Titles.

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:48, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support — Gadget has pointed out the few problems with this article, but they're all minor stylistic concerns. The article is well-written, has excellent flow, and seems to be lacking any of the spelling or grammar problems that crop up even in FACs. Excellent all the way around. In a general sense, however, if you wish to see this as an FAC, I'd suggest lengthening it some. There's no problems with it, but the article left me wanting more specific details in addition to the wider scope of the RAAF. JKBrooks85 16:54, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. I agree with Gadget's recommendations above, and those should definitely be addressed before nominating this article for FA. I would also recommend not having mid-sentence inline citations, but instead grouping them at the end of the sentence or paragraph. Otherwise, I think it's a complete, well-referenced, informative and well-written article that meets the criteria. Nice work. Cla68 21:28, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. What they said In terms of prose, the article is very solid. It seems comprehensive and it is adequately cited. Well done. Woodym555 14:25, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Battle of Dyrrachium (1081)

This article recently passed GAC and I think that it could be of A-class quality. All comments welcome. Kyriakos 22:01, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment(s)
  • The alignment of the quote box in the section prelude is being shoved way to far to the right by the map picture above it (note that i have my moniter alignment at 1024xthe other number). If you could fix that it would be great.
  • "Attacking with their massive battle axes, the Varangians attacked the Norman knights, who were driven away after their horses panicked." This sentence uses the word "attack" twice, it would be best if you could find another word to substitute in place of one of the two "attacks". I will not oppose for this, its just a preference of mine.

Other than that, it looks good. TomStar81 (Talk) 00:36, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, thanks for the feedback. I have removed the image futher up and to the left and I have also remove the first attack. Kyriakos 06:06, 22 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Carom 20:31, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. Good work. Cla68 21:38, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support.
  Eurocopter tigre 13:21, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Great lead-in and great text flow; needs minor work:

• Recommended that free images use the {{information}} template to ensure that all of the required information is in place

References

• There are really only three sources used here, this may be considered rather light; if there are no other good sources don't try to force it
• Recommend that references are formatted with citation templates. This method is not mandatory, but is considered a best practice.

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 23:05, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have clarified all the issues in the content and style section. Current I can not find any other good sources but I am searching and hope to have a few more soon. Also with the style of the citation I like the way it currently is. Tell me if you have any problems. Thanks. Kyriakos 08:52, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Tet Offensive

A complete re-write and expansion of the original article. Quite long in length, but necessary for explication of the topic (at least for the time being). This one is a touchy subject, and am interested in assuring that POV is not sticking out like a sore thumb somewhere. RM Gillespie 15:07, 18 October 2007 (UTC) Comments:[reply]

• I'm not sure that footnoting the "Crack the Sky, Shake the Earth" heading follows style. The sheer size of the footnote makes it rather distracting. To avoid that problem, I'd suggest inserting the quote into the section with an explanation and footnoting it there.
• Keep an eye out for gender-specific words like "newsmen." The preferred terms are gender-neutral things like "reporters."
• The last sentence is somewhat awkward. I'd suggest removing it altogether.

JKBrooks85 22:27, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Support:

• Echo comment above about footnotes in section titles.
• I'm also not a fan of footnotes in lead sections and infoboxes, both of which should, as far as I'm concerned, contain info that is detailed, and therefore referenced, in the body of the article (there is no policy or guideline to support my opinion on this though).
• I find the serial section titles, as occurs in the Background section, a little awkward, and generally prefer to see some overview type narrative of what is following between headers (as occurs in the Aftermath/United States section).
• I find the section title "Northern Decisions" a little confusing when it refers to the North Vietnamese, especially as it seems there were factions within the North Vietnamese government that are referred to as southern and northern.
• There is at least one paragraph, the 2nd in the Northern Decisions section, without a reference. This is not a FAC I know, but there you go.
• The last sentence in the Hue section reads like speculatoin or OR - is there a source?
• Same for 1st sentence in the Aftermath section.
• The word "Tragedy" appears in the Aftermath/South Vietnam section - Never sure about this word (I thought it appeared in
  WP:WTA
  , and there is a related section but not completely applicable in this case). Undoubtedly it is applicable to the people who experienced the war, but this would surely be so regardless of which side they were on. What do you think?
• The lead talks about US public reaction, and my limited knowledge of the history leads me to believe that this was a key issue leading to US withdrawal, yet the subject is not covered in the aftermath at all - or am I way off beam here?
• Notwithstanding the excellent prose, which kept me engaged in a long article that I would normally have given up on, it could do with a brief copyedit - a few typos, no spaces between refs and start of next sentence being the most obvious. I made a few changes and I'll go back and clean up a bit more now.

Very impressive piece of work indeed. --FactotEm 07:54, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• OK - let's get busy. 1) Took care of "newsmen", 2) deleted "Southern/Northern-firsters" and stuck with other faction titles, 3) footnoted the first line of "Aftermath", and 4) deleted the last line of the article. Footnoting casualty figures in infoboxes comes from long experience dealing with editors who become rather indignant when their particular "side" seemes maligned. The last line of the "Hue" section just sums up the info listed above it and I don't believe that it is speculative. As to the U.S. public reaction, during most of the deliberations over deescalation, the majority of the public still supported Johnson's policy. Finally, I guess I just consider the deaths 14,000 civilians a "tragedy", North or South. RM Gillespie 15:16, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comments
  • The layout of the headings is confusing; it took me a while to realise that the first headers (like "aftermath") were using a single set of equal signs instead of the double set I usually see; to me, this created the illusion that their had been some kind of omision between the section headers and sub headers (in this example, it looks liuke you forgat to write something for the aftermath section and instead skipped straight to "North Vietnam", which of course was you intention, but the line under "North Vietnam" seems to suggest an oversight on your part")

Otherwise it looks good. TomStar81 (Talk) 01:36, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• To reduce the number of headings (in the "Background" section for instance) has the effect of removing divisions between contexts. The American political section would then merge into the North Vietnamese section. To physically reduce the type of the headings (in the "Aftermath" section for instance) has the effect of reducing the sub-headers to the size of plain text, which I find annoying. Every other article I have written has utilized the same format and hasn't been a problem so far. Any suggestions? RM Gillespie 05:06, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think whatever problem TomStar81 was seeing should be fixed now that the level-1 headings are set at level-2. Kirill 05:14, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Kirill - once again you demonstrate that you are "the Man". RM Gillespie 05:19, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support That's much better, and so much kinder on the eyes. Well Done! TomStar81 (Talk) 10:19, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• I got the unreferenced para in "Norther decisions" annotated. I had not noticed that before, thanks! RM Gillespie 14:57, 20 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support After the corrections which have been made, the article should be easily promoted to A-class. --
  Eurocopter tigre 12:28, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Comment: Especially given the long list of footnotes, the duplicates should be combined using the <ref name=xxx> tag. I've made a start. The naming convention I use is surname of author, combined with page number. For example, I used <ref name=DouganWeiss8> for Dougan & Weiss, p. 8. — ERcheck (talk) 13:30, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • No problem. Just a case of being too "old school". I have to admit that the first time I read an article with such tags (without clicking on the footnote), I had no idea what they were for and just assumed that the author had gotten his footnotes out of order. RM Gillespie 15:41, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Wallachian Revolution of 1848

Superb article, it easily meets all requirements! --

• Support Wandalstouring 16:33, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support — Another excellent Romanian history article, but as before, there are a lot of red links in the article. It's not enough to keep it from being A-listed, but if the article is to be promoted further, these need to be fixed. JKBrooks85 19:34, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • That will be fixed in the near future. --
    Eurocopter tigre 19:43, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• Comment. The article needs an infobox and a lot of the footnotes are duplicates that need to be combined with the "refname" footnote format. Otherwise, it should be good to go. Cla68 20:52, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Eurocopter tigre 15:37, 18 October 2007 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• Support, well cited and a good article. Kyriakos 08:16, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Support The article has a sizable number of red links, it would be nice to see those unlinked articles created. Also, it would appear that anumber of you citations could be combined since they go to the exact same source, I would concider combining them. Otherwise, it looks good. TomStar81 (Talk) 23:31, 19 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Alexandru Averescu

I just found it and it looks very well in my opinion, and it's proper referenced and organized. I really think this article deserves to be more than B-class! --

• Hell yeah! very good article--
  Talk) 19:26, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Weak Support there are a rather large number of red links on the page, otherwise it looks good. TomStar81 (Talk) 20:25, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • So what? Per Manual of Style, they are welcome as long as relevant to the context. --
    Eurocopter tigre 20:35, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply
    ]
• Support but i agree with Tomstar that the red links need to be brought down. Kyriakos 21:04, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support but reduce the red links and I think the article should have a full bibliography, not just a list of footnotes. Cla68 13:49, 16 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support — Well-referenced, comprehensive, and easily accessible to someone unfamiliar with the subject. As stated earlier, there are a lot of red links, and I'd support the creation of stubs to fill them up as soon as possible, particularly since they seem to cover important Romanian subjects that have been previously neglected. JKBrooks85 15:11, 16 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Fort Jackson (Virginia)

Another in the series of articles about the American Civil War forts protecting Washington, D.C. This article's a little smaller, mainly because the fort itself was smaller and didn't have the importance of some of the previous ones I've put up for review. I've tried to address concerns previous reviews of other articles have brought up: Cites for every paragraph, removing unsupported information, and of course more photographs and illustrations. Let me know what you like and dislike and I'll be sure to fix it here and in future articles on the subject as well. Thanks for your time. JKBrooks85 14:47, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. A nice article that meets all the criteria. Kyriakos 23:26, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. --
  Eurocopter tigre 13:50, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support Good job. TomStar81 (Talk) 05:55, 4 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Arrest and assassination of Ngô Đình Diệm

This article covers the arrest and assassination of Ngo Dinh Diem, teh first president of the Republic of Vietnam at the end of a coup. Hopefully, I will manage to get this to FA but Nov 2, the date when he was killed. Let the suggestions begin! Blnguyen (bananabucket) 09:18, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support — Good stuff. I like the detail and the amount of ground you've covered. Looks like a pretty even-handed treatment of a fairly controversial subject as well. Good job on that. The only suggestions I have relate to the look of the article. Are there any more pictures available? Right now, it's pretty grey, and a few pictures or illustrations might help to break up the sections. JKBrooks85 14:41, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment(edit conf) Why are words bolded in the lead? Woodym555 14:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Those appear to be the key words in the title of the article. JKBrooks85 17:35, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

after a successful coup isn't in the title, and i don't think it serves much purpose anyway does it? When i first look at is it seems like placing emphasis randomly.

Wikipedia:Lead section#Bold title says : (Title should be mentioned naturally as soon as possible.) If the topic of an article has no name, and the title is simply descriptive—like Electrical characteristics of a dynamic loudspeaker—the title does not need to appear verbatim in the main text; if it does, it is not in boldface: I think this clause applies here. Woodym555 18:53, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

I have removed the bold for the reasons stated above. I also used the 24hour clock as per

WP:MOSNUM. I now Support Woodym555 21:33, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

• Support. The article looks good. The only thing I am not sure about is as Woodym the bold links. Kyriakos 23:23, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Smolensk War

This GA class article is, I hope, quite comprehensive and well written - hopefully A-class. In any case, comments by MILHIST would be much appreciated. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  01:02, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. The article is detailed, lengthy, neutral, and lacks any glaring stylistic, spelling or grammatical errors. I can't be sure of its accuracy or comprehensiveness, as this is far from my field of expertise, but it seems well-cited and gives the appearance of being comprehensive. There's something about the writing style that makes it seem a bit unprofessional to me, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, and I'm not quite sure exactly what I'd suggest to change if I were to suggest so. One minor thing - could we include the Polish/Lithuanian/Russian name(s) of the conflict somewhere in the lead, or in a language box infobox on the side? Nice work. LordAmeth 01:48, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  The Polish name is just a Polish translation of 'Smolensk War'; it can be taken from the interwiki link. I don't know about the Russian one, as it is in cyrillic. PS. The only thing that I am still unhappy as the article is concerned is lack of the map with battles, but that's hard to find or make for such relatively unknown campaigns :( -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  03:15, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  Even so, I would include both (which can be taken from the interwiki links). It just seems more authentic that way, I think. I try to include the native Japanese name in every article I do, and where relevant to include the Chinese and/or Korean names as well. That way the "true" name of the event, that is to say the name of the event in the language to which it is most relevant, is represented. LordAmeth 11:23, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Informative and interesting article that meets the criteria and appears to cover the subject appropriately. I would suggest, however, not having mid-sentence citations. Instead, I would combine them all at the end of the sentence, or even all of them at the end of the paragraph. Cla68 06:06, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  Usually mid-sentence citations are used for very specific claims or numbers, so it is easy to see which specific fact comes from which source - if lumped together at the end of the statement, that wouldn't be possible.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  06:45, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Preliminary Support I'm having too much trouble reading the words right now, but it looks comprehensive and well cited, and there are images (although I may suggest trying to find a more uniform size for them). I will look at it in the morning, assuming I feel better then. TomStar81 (Talk) 07:49, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. The only things that I can suggestion is that you remove the See ALso section and if possible lengthen the lead. Kyriakos 09:53, 1 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment — Awesome work on the article... it's really high-quality information about something I didn't know much about. Two things stick in my mind, though: You mention a Swedish delegation in the first section, but there's no further information about what came about as a result of those talks between Sweden and Russia. I infer from the lack of Swedish intervention that nothing happened, but it'd be nice to state that in the article. Also, building off of Kyriakos's suggestion of removing the See Also section, did the war affect the Thirty Years War going on at the time? I know this is in the period of the Swedish phase of that war, and am wondering if that affected the situation at all. I'm not an expert by any means, but those are two questions that lingered in my mind. Good work! JKBrooks85 17:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  Unfortunatly I don't have the refs with me, IIRC the Muscovites signed an alliance with the Swedes but decided to act before the Swedes were ready (hence the sentence later states "and unilaterally attacked without waiting for the Swedes and the Ottomans"). I don't mind if the see also is removed; however I think there are a few scholars (a minority) who classify this conflict as part of the TYW (which I think most scholars disagree with).-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  18:45, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  I missed that sentence. Thanks for pointing it out. Support. JKBrooks85 20:06, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Cleomenean War

This article has under gone a WPMILHIST peer review and a copy edit over the last few days and I have addressed most of the issues and I would like to hear what needs to improved and see whether or not the article is of A-class standard. Kyriakos 23:25, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. I believe that it meets the criteria, but I have a few suggestions:
  • Combine your mid-sentence citations at the end of the sentence. Mid-sentence citations interrupt the flow of the prose.
  • Use image altering software, if available to you, to draw the routes and moves taken by the involved armies on the Peloponnese maps you have in the article.
  • Since you have three maps of the area of operations early in the article, you might consider replacing one of them with another type of image, such as a picture of a Spartan hoplite or other type of involved combatant.
• Good work on an interesting and well-organized article. Cla68 23:00, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply. OK, I have removed all the mid-sentence citations and has replaced a map with an image of a hoplite. Kyriakos 10:53, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Meets all the criteria. Prose reads well, well cited, excellent article. Woodym555 01:13, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Looks great. LordAmeth 01:51, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support looks fine, but as Cla68 pointed out, having the same citation pop up after every sentence is a little overkill, once at the end of the paragraph should be fine. The section Battle of Ladoceia and Reforms looks the weakest to me, mostly, the prose could use improvement. Burzmali 02:12, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support All criteria are met. TomStar81 (Talk) 03:56, 30 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Fort Runyon

Self-nom for yet another in the series of articles about the Civil War defenses of Washington, D.C. I've tried to incorporate suggestions from previous articles' reviews into this one: TomStar81's suggestions about cites and quotes, Eurocopter tigre's suggestions about images, and everything else. The article was featured in a Did you Know? on September 20, and I feel it's ready for an A-list review now. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks for your comments and your support. JKBrooks85 15:22, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment(s)

• Do we have an article for the Arlington Historical Society? The external link in the intro is kind of distracting.
• In the 3rd paragrpah of the section "Occupation of Arlington" is the word "terminuses". Is that a misspelling or just one of those wierd words?
• In the last paragraph of the section "Occupation of Arlington" you have the sentence "The town of Alexandria was the sole exception."; thats more of sentence fragment than a sentence and should be either combined with some other sentence or removed altogather.
• In the first sentence in the first paragrpah in the section "planning and contruction" the sentence in the quote ends with "&c". That reads to me like a typo, could you check to make sure its correct?
• Citations for #17 and #18 read "see map" and "see illustration", but I do not see a link to a map or illistrations. TomStar81 (Talk) 06:43, 22 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed the cites. Terminuses or termini are acceptable in common usage. "&c." is an archaic abbreviation for etc., itself an abbreviation for etcetera. Combined those two sentences that bothered you in the Occupation of Arlington section. JKBrooks85 21:02, 22 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, although I would suggest putting your images in text format, which you can do by formatting the image sytnaxe with a colon before the word "image". Otherwise it looks good. TomStar81 (Talk) 06:08, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. It's been fixed. JKBrooks85 14:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Once again very good work. Cla68 08:50, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. Quite good. Carom 22:45, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - Everything seems to be good in it! --
  Eurocopter tigre 18:04, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]

Battle of Barrosa

This article has gone from stub rating to B-class, and following a very constructive

• Support - It is well-referenced, proper-written, it contains good images and maps, so i'm suporting it! --
  Eurocopter tigre 18:33, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support — Reworded one sentence in the lede, but other than that, it looks good. JKBrooks85 19:06, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Thank you - I like your new words :) Carre 19:12, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support - I peer reviewed this earlier and said it was A-class then and it still is.--Jackyd101 14:47, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Several subsections in the Battle section have few if any links to articles here in Wikipedia, could you maybe see about putting some links in there? Otherwise it looks good. TomStar81 (Talk) 07:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  Generally, I tried to observe what I thought was standard practice - wikilinking relevant words on their first occurrence only, and not linking them subsequently. I shall have a look to see if there are any I've missed, that a reader may like to click to learn more. Thanks for the punctuation & grammar correction too - more improvements like that always appreciated. Carre 10:19, 22 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

   Done - mainly wikilinked military terms (column, line, square, squadron, hussars, dragoons). There are still some unlinked sections, but I couldn't really see much more that wasn't either linked earlier, or that would need further explanation. If anyone does, on reading it, think "ohh, wonder what that means?", please feel free to wikilink. Cheers. Carre 10:51, 22 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Looks good, i can't see any problems with MOS, referenced immaculately. Great article. Woodym555 14:55, 22 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Issy Smith

There has been an impressive response to the article's peer review. The most compelling issues (whether raised or not) have hopefully been addressed; however, I of course welcome suggestions and encourage the identification of perceived deficiencies. Note: My editing has been severely curtailed recently, thus I pre-emptively apologise if I'm unresponsive this weekend. As is evident with this blurb, the article may still contain....flawed prose, but I'm essentially oblivious so bold editors are urged to refine the article! ;-) SoLando (Talk) 14:05, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support as one of the peer reviewers who was very impressed with the article. I have followed the changes since and they look good. Well done. Woodym555 14:28, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support TomStar81 (Talk) 20:09, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Good, well-referenced, tightly written article. Excellent work. --ROGER DAVIES ^TALK 00:40, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - It looks very good to me and the peer review is also quite impressive. Good work!! --
  Eurocopter tigre 13:32, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support — Beautifully written with a smooth flow and excellent citations. JKBrooks85 16:27, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Fort Corcoran

Self-nom for the latest article in the Civil War Defenses of Washington, D.C. series. It was rated start-class while still under construction, and since my ultimate goal is to give every fort an A-Class article, I'd appreciate your comments and support on this article. Please let me know of any problems or areas that you'd like to see improved, and I'll get on it right away. Thanks. JKBrooks85 01:48, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment The following need to be addressed:

• The intro paragraph seems rather short and condenced, is there any chance it could be expanded on?

I'm not a fan of long lede paragraphs, but I have modified it slightly. If there's anything in particular you'd like to see added, let me know.

• There are no citations at all for the first paragraph under "Occupation of Arlington", could you maybe find one or two to add?

Added.

• Your quote has the word "reconnoitre", is that a misspelling or just a fancy term for recon?

It's the long term for recon. Since it's in a quote, I can't change it.

• I think Maj. Gen. George B. McClellan’s quote ought to be either placed in a cqutoe box or better linked to the preceding or succseding lines, the way the quote is set up now with regards to the sentences before it seems...odd.

Modified the paragraphs around the quote and put it in blockquote format.

• The statement "This event was the first time in history that an aerial observer actively directed artillery fire." in the Union Army Ballon Corps sections needs to be cited; otherwise there is no proof that this was the first time someone in the air directed artillery.

Couldn't find a cite for the first time ever, but added a cite for the first American directed artillery.

• The first paragraph under the section "Union Army Ballon Corps" has no citations, could you maybe find one or two to add?

Added a few.

• The first paragraph under the section "camp life" has no citations, could you maybe find one or two to add? TomStar81 (Talk) 03:35, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't find anything about Fort Corcoran leisure in particular, though I do have information about general recreation in the Union Army. The best I can offer is the picture of the band at Fort Corcoran, which at least validates the fact that there were bands there and they evidently had enough leisure time to create them. Thanks for the suggestions. JKBrooks85 18:25, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Major issues have been addressed to my satisifaction. On the issue of the intro paragraph: its just an editorial difference I guess; I like to have two or three paragraphs in the intro section that neatly sum things up, but I see no reason to object to the intro paragraph if you like to keep things short :) TomStar81 (Talk) 00:30, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the support. My theory has always been that a lede should cover the article, but leave you wanting for details so you're inspired to read the article itself. Ledes that are too long answer all your questions and there's no suspense. Just my opinion, of course. I've seen plenty of long ledes that worked well, particularly on more complex subjects, which this isn't. JKBrooks85 02:14, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Nice work, again. Cla68 05:00, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the support. There's more to come. The style seems to work out, so hopefully I'll be able to apply it to other articles as well. JKBrooks85 13:18, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Good article with excellent images, it meets all the requirements in my opinion. --
  Eurocopter tigre 09:57, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]

Operation Passage to Freedom

Article about the sealift/airlift of Vietnamese from the communist north to the anticommunist south in 1954-55 after the partition at Geneva. Erm, it's relatively long and detailed, about 30k, and is referenced, and I hope, at an acceptable standard of English. Thanks,Blnguyen (bananabucket) 07:41, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• CTF-90 is fine, but what is COMIGAL? Com-something or other US Navy, but what? Cheers Buckshot06 15:39, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The English term is Commisariat for refugees, but it was commonly referred to as COMIGAL which was the French acronym. This is covered in the text. I do not know what this acronym stands for in full French, and none of hte books I checked detail this. The head of COMIGAL, Bui Van Luong, in his report in the Lindholm book of the Michigan State University Advisory group simply uses COMIGAL himself without elaborating and neither do the other ten books I checked nor do the other papers in the Lindholm book. I guess I could circumvent this by using "Commisariat for refugees" but it would violate the "use common names" principle. But since the English translation is already provided, I don't feel that it is amjor problem and I don't know how I could resolve this. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:01, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I see now. I explained COMIGAL in one of the later sections and later added a reference to it in an earlier section so it isn't explained first. That's fixed now. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 08:18, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That looks fine, though if you ever find what COMIGAL stands for in French it'd be good to add it. Thanks for clearing that up. Cheers Buckshot06 13:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Comment. I can't support at the moment, as the article has several issues that need to be cleared up:I believe now meets the criteria. Cla68 16:05, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The intro is one, long, run-on paragraph. It needs to be split into two or more paragraphs.
    • Done. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 09:06, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The background section should be expanded to at least two paragraphs.
    • Done. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 09:06, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • What happened to the refugees in South Vietnam after the North completely took over the country and what is the legacy of the exodus in the current republic of Vietnam? Cla68 16:53, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • After the
      cn}} people tell me this). But apart from that, from the books I have, the '75 boat people are not discussed in terms of the 54 northerners and the ancestral southerners. They are just discussed as SVN in general. So I don't know what I can do for you there, except to point out that in the US and Australia, there seem to be a higher ratio of Vietnamese who are Catholic-Buddhist than there are in Vietnam, which would tell me that Catholics are more communist-phobic. But that would be my OR. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 09:06, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply
      ]
• In addition to the suggests above, you should combine common citations, some of your notes go to the exact same source. TomStar81 (Talk) 21:41, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes I've done this. Thanks for pointing it out. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:04, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support my complaints have been adressed. TomStar81 (Talk) 07:07, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment — The sections are kind of grey right now... any chance of putting in subheads in order to break up the paragraphs? It'd also help with searching and allow users easier access to information. JKBrooks85 20:49, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. Looks good to me. Kyriakos 23:04, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Omaha Beach

This article was peer reviewed in June [2] . I have accommodated the resulting comments as best I can and would now like to see if it is up to standard for A-Class. Thanks. --FactotEm 16:58, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak Support The following are suggestions for improvement:
  • There are no citations for the terrain section, any chance you may be able to find some?

Done.

• • Any chance of finding articles to link the German units to for the "defenses" section under "Bloody Ohamha"? It would be interesting to learn more about the 716th Division, 352nd Division, 916th Grenadier Regiment, 726th Grenadier Regiment, and 352nd Artillery Regiment to help put the defense of the beach into perspective.

Done for those that exist.

• • I notice the article has a gallery section, is this section really needed or could it be removed and/or linked to the commons repository?

The gallery was not my work. I'd do as you suggest but have absolutely no idea how to.

• • Some of your citations in the notes section are letter for letter the same, see if you can combine them (case in point: #29 and #31). TomStar81 (Talk) 22:23, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Done.

And thanks for your comments (I'll see what I can do about the gallery) --FactotEm 06:10, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support There is a sizable selection of images on the commons for Operation Overlord; I linked that page to this one since this is technically a page relfecting that part of the operation. I will look into tightening up the image linker later today if I get the chance, and see about transfering the images loaed here over to the commons. Good work. TomStar81 (Talk) 09:21, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you - appreciate your help --FactotEm 21:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support A great article with quality information. --Pupster21 Talk To Me 11:53, 10 September 2007 (UTC) However, I think there might need to be a section telling about Omaha Beach today. Pupster21 Talk To Me 11:54, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking the time to review - I've added what little I can cite now. --FactotEm 21:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support — I changed the notes section to two columns instead of one, since it's over 80 items. Fantastic work. I know you've been working on this one for quite a while now. JKBrooks85 12:42, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed - it is a lot more work than I expected. Thanks for your comments. --FactotEm 21:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Very informative and well-cited article that meets the criteria. I would, however, suggest that many of the short sub-sections be combined and that the aftermath section be expanded to include information on what Omaha Beach was used for after D-day, such as for how long it was used as a location for landing further reinforcements, etc. Cla68 17:04, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good points. Done, though I'm not sure that there couldn't be a bit more merging. I'll have another look in the morning. Thanks. --FactotEm 21:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Barton S. Alexander

Self nom for an article created at the indirect suggestion of FayssalF, who said I should at least create stubs for all the wikilinks in the A-Class review of Fort Bayard (Washington, D.C.). That inspired me to create this article, which I originally intended to only be a stub. After getting a little carried away, it became the first biographical article that I've ever attempted, and I'd like to think that it's as worth of A-listing as any of the fort articles that are the main focus of my current campaign. Thanks for taking a look at it. JKBrooks85 21:44, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose for now. The following need to be adressed:

• Your last sentence in the 3rd into paragraph is incomplete; it needs to expanded or removed.

Removed.

• Add a section on the General's earliy life and childhood, if you could; we seem to pick his life up at the age of 19 with no knowlage of who his parents were and whether he had siblings and all that sort of thing.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any of that sort of information. I've written to the History office of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers at Fort Belvoir, Virginia in hopes of getting a copy of his biographical file, but aside from that, I don't know of any other way of getting that information. He hasn't had any biography written, and everything else I've found has been about his military career.

• You have multiple tenses in the main body, an article needs to be written entirely in the present tense or entirely in the past tense.

I was only able to find two instances of this — both having to do with the Scott Building. I've fixed both.

• Some of your sentences seem to be fragmented; others do not seem to flow well, and some sentnece suffer from both problems. See is you can combine some of the sentences and/or rearrange the wording to help make them read easier.

Can you provide specific examples of this? Copy editing your own work is never easy, and readability standards differ from person to person, and a fresh set of eyes is always appreciated.

• Try to aviod instances of the same word appearing in the same sentence. Case in point: the word designed in this sentnece: "Designed by Brigadier General Joseph Totten, head of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, the lighthouse was designed to replace a structure that had been destroyed in a storm in 1851."

Fixed.

• You have too many commas in the article, most are no needed and hence should be removed.

Again, specific examples would be appreciated on this. I've removed a couple optional information clauses, but a readthrough by someone else would be appreciated.

• See if you can gain some consistancy with you refernce section, the cites in some places seem thread bare. SandyGeorgia may be able to help you with this if you are uncertain of how to improve them. TomStar81 (Talk) 07:19, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Where would you have me add more citations? I've got at least one in every paragraph, and most have two or more. The lede paragraphs don't have cites because the information in the lede is contained later in the article. Thanks for the critique! JKBrooks85 22:16, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can not in good faith oppose an article in which the main editer/contributer has tried to find info and had such info elude him, so if the early life information can not be faound I will withdraw my oppose on that ground (you did try, after all, so you have completed your 50% of the work :)

Understood, but it's impossible to prove a negative. I can't prove that such information doesn't exist, merely that I haven't found it in several online searches across a week's time.

I've managed to find a bit more early life information, including his exact birthdate and birthplace. I have managed to find information about his marriage, but it's only on a private genealogy site, and I don't know how trustworthy it is. Should I include it?

On the issue of commas: English grammar rules are to add commas only after the words "and", "but", and "or" if they appear in the sentence; to add commas after listing three or more things; to seperate date, and to seperate proper place locations. Examples where these rules are not exaclty followed would be as follows: "The only exception to this came in late July, 1864, when Confederate forces under the command of Jubal Early attacked Washington's defenses from the north during the Battle of Fort Stevens." (the comma between July and 1864 is uneeded); "In August 1853, Alexander accepted, and by 1855, the Smithsonian Building was complete." (absence of "and/or/but" between "1853" and "Alexander", and between "1855" and "the"); and "After the conclusion of the war, now-First Lieutenant Alexander returned to West Point for a four-year stint as as Treasurer and Superintending Engineer for the Cadets' Barracks and Mess Hall." (the comma between "war" and "now" is uneeded).

As to comma rules: I've fixed the first of these suggestions. Thanks for pointing it out! Completely missed that one. The other two sentences you pointed out are examples of parenthetical phrases or non-restrictive clauses. They can be removed from the sentence without changing the meaning. If they really bother you that much, I can rework the wording.

On the issue of citations: you have enough citations in the article as it is now, no further citation are needed. What I am suggesting has to do more the citations themselves; there is a difference between citing information to "Kelley, p. 128 (cite #25)" and "U.S., War Department, The War of the Rebellion: A Compilation of the Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies, (Washington, DC: The Government Printing Office, 1880-1901), Series I, Volume 2, Chapter 9, p. 38. (cite #9)"; given a choice, most people would rather see the latter than the former. If you could reconfigure some the citations so they have more information in them (like page number, volume number, edition number, publishing press, etc) then you can make the page look more proffessional. SandyGeorgia is particularly good at this, she can add meat to the citations anyone has already added to an article (hence the reason I suggested having her look at it).

If you'll re-examine the citations, you'll find that I fully cited the Kelley work the first time it appeared in the article. In order to keep the citations list from becoming unwieldy, I used shortened citations. It's the same format used in scholarly works and in other Wikipedia articles, and it provides the necessary information without becoming more wordy than is needed.

On the issue of fragmented sentences: I am aware that one of the ten commandments of writing anything is "Thou shalt not copyedit thy own work"; but I am afraid that if I mess with it I will add uneeded spelling and grammar mistakes, solving one problem at the cost of adding another and possibly subtracting from the overall meaning of the work. If you want I can try to edit the article for you to adress the issue; or you can wait and gamble that someone else will review the article and fix the problems. TomStar81 (Talk) 23:03, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I really do want someone to look it over — I wouldn't have asked if I didn't mean it. Though I may disagree with you on some of the individual sentences, it'd be nice to make sure everything's clear enough for others to understand. Thanks. JKBrooks85 00:30, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment. I did a quick edit to align the format with most of the other Civil War generals' biographies. You were using a lot more fully spelled out ranks for people over and over again than we typically use in these biographies. Two remaining things to consider: In your footnotes, the external links should be composed on the title of the work, not appear as a separate numeric link, such as Title of my book rather than Title of my book [3]. You should do a reevaluation of the ranks. The paragraph in which it describes him being a major of engineers while a Lt. Col. in the U.S. Army was confusing. My typical reference for command history is Eicher, John H., and Eicher, David J., Civil War High Commands, Stanford University Press, 2001, ISBN 0-8047-3641-3, and they indicate that most of the promotions he received during the war were brevets. For instance, he was not promoted to permanent Lt. Col. USA until 1867. And the sentence that indicated his brevet promotion was not permanent is a little misleading. Normally, we use the term permanent to differentiate regular army ranks from the volunteer ranks that were given out freely during the war. Alexander was one of the rare generals who had exclusively regular army ranks throughout the war. Brevets were honorary ranks, and unless they were revoked somehow, were permanent enough. Hal Jespersen 17:41, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for doing all of that, Hal. It's really appreciated. Since we are dealing with two different sets of ranks here — engineering and U.S. Army — which one should predominate, and what should I indicate as his final rank, General or Colonel? As you said, it's really confusing to someone new to the topic, and was for me as well. Incidentally, I made contact with someone at the Office of History at Fort Belvoir, and they're sending me Gen. Alexander's biography file via mail. From the email exchanges I've been having I don't expect too much new information, but we'll see when it arrives. JKBrooks85 20:31, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a table of his promotions, all the the regular army (USA) which I extracted from the Eicher reference and also http://www.civilwardata.com/active/hdsquery.dll?Officer?476&U (for which a subscription is needed):

so the confusing sentence actually should indicate that he was a full major in the regular army (engineers or not, makes no difference) but that he had previously received a brevet promotion to Lt. Col. in the regular army.

Thanks for clearing that up. I've fixed the sentence and am wondering if it's okay with you if I include the table you created in the article. JKBrooks85 11:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is generally not our style in ACW biographies to include command history tables of this type. (Of the 400 or so I am familiar with, I can think of only two that have them and I intend to rewrite those eventually.) I have made the appropriate changes to the article to include the promotions within the context of his assignments. See if you are happy with the format of the footnotes I added; you are using a different format than I generally use. I removed the Warner footnote because he really provides no additional information of value. Hal Jespersen 15:35, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've brought my web citations into a more standard format and corrected a few niggling problems that had been overlooked. I think it's all set now. JKBrooks85 20:24, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Took another read through after leaving it be for a dew days, and this time it looks much better than it did. TomStar81 (Talk) 18:27, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

George Jones (RAAF officer)

Self-nom for this B-class article that's recently undergone peer review, during which I believe I addressed all points raised. Like to think it has the potential to go to FA but let's see what comes out of the next stage. Cheers, Ian Rose 13:28, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Good job. Cla68 15:29, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. I was a peer reviewer of the article and all requests have been acted on. It looks good. Woodym555 15:33, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support A very good article. --
  Nick Dowling 00:44, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support on condition that citation number 38 is changed, Wikipedia can not be cited as source in an article. TomStar81 (Talk) 06:48, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Modified. While the intent was simply a footnote in order to avoid cluttering the relevant paragraph, with a wikilink for more info, I see how it might be interpreted as WP citing itself. Thanks/cheers, Ian Rose 11:57, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • To be fair, I've done that myself; however, most articles that pass through here are bound for the FAC page, and the FAC contributers will single out cites of that nature for the same reason I did, so you may as well correct it now before answering to a board of higher athority :) TomStar81 (Talk) 22:33, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Fort Bayard (Washington, D.C.)

This article covers Fort Bayard, a fort constructed during the American Civil War as part of the defenses of Washington, D.C. I'm currently undertaking a project to create a page for every one of the 60+ forts that protected Washington during the war, and I'm sure this article is worthy of A-Class status. A similar article was raised to A-Class level last month, and Fort Bayard is easily the equal of that article (Fort Stanton (Washington, D.C.)). If there are any problems with the article or the format, please let me know and I will fix them and avoid repeating them in future articles. Thank you for your time. JKBrooks85 22:28, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support good work but i'd like to see all red links in blue ;) -- FayssalF - ^{Wiki me up®} 17:06, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Heh. So would I... but I suppose that since you did all that wikification in the article, the least I can do is create a few stubs for the Union officers. The forts in red will be wikified as part of the ongoing project to create entries for every fort defending Washington. Thanks for your help and your support. JKBrooks85 18:31, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, i knew that. I'll try to create other stubs while you'd be creating those of forts. - FayssalF - ^{Wiki me up®} 01:50, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak Support Make sure that you don't start sentences with numbers, spell the given number out. More imprtantly, your notes should be configued in a consistant style. TomStar81 (Talk) 06:57, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed the sentence that began with a number and standardized the citations and put them into two columns. JKBrooks85 15:18, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Its A-class now. Thanks for the swift response. TomStar81 (Talk) 17:18, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you're willing to give the input, I'm willing to make the changes as quickly as possible. Thanks for the tips. They'll be applied to future articles as well. JKBrooks85 17:55, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Nice work. Just one suggestion, though, that you add citations to the couple of paragraphs in the "Planning and construction" section that currently lack citations. Cla68 03:59, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed — I added citations for the paragraphs that lacked them, both in the Planning and Construction section and in the Wartime Use section. I also added accessed dates to the website citations. Thanks for the help! JKBrooks85 16:02, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Battle for Henderson Field

Respectfully request an A-class review of this article. I appreciate anyone's comments, questions, or suggestions. I'll be sitting on airplanes (i.e. traveling) for the next day or so which may delay my response to your comments but I look forward to receiving your input on if you feel that the article currently meets the A-class criteria or not. Cla68 12:34, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Support — A fantastic article, well-written, exhaustively cited, and complete with excellent illustrations, quotes, and infoboxes. Easily ready for a FAC. JKBrooks85 22:31, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - An excellent article. My only comment is that
  Nick Dowling 03:38, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support It is no doubt a fantastic article but my only concern is that it relies mainly on 2 or 3 sources. But well, that can be sorted out before reaching a FA-Class i suppose. -- FayssalF - ^{Wiki me up®} 17:28, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - Great artocle which is close to FA status. Kyriakos 08:50, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Byzantine-Arab Wars

In my opinion quite a good article from our Early Muslim Military history task force. Wandalstouring 13:07, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support even though IMO it needs more cits. Kyriakos 05:24, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak support - a bit unreferenced, especially "Byzantine resurgence" and "Conclusion" sections. --
  Eurocopter tigre 12:14, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Weak support 34 references are quite enough as a minimum. Some NPOV is needed. Sometimes it seems clear that it was written from a Byzantine POV. Examples: loss of southern Italian territories can mean gain of Southern Italian territories depending from where you see it. Conflicts with the Caliphate however continued between the 800s and 1169 can mean the same thing if we would say simply Conflicts with the Caliphate however continued between the 800s and 1169... -- FayssalF - ^{Wiki me up®} 16:07, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment It is better now but we still have a one-sided
  Effects section. -- FayssalF - ^{Wiki me up®} 11:24, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Weak Support in addition to the comments above, you should check the quotes to make sure they are in their entirety, otherwise you need to lead them in or follow them out with three dots. Otherwise, it look goods. TomStar81 (Talk) 06:37, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Jean de Carrouges

Longer companion article to A-class

• Support per last review. Kyriakos 12:59, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. Carom 18:05, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support — Strong article, well-cited. Clear, concise, and informative. The footnotes aren't displaying in two columns for me, though, and according to the code, they should be doing so. Firefox and Safari both show the references in a single column. JKBrooks85 19:38, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - Nice and comprehensive article, it easily meets the standards. --
  Eurocopter tigre 12:52, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]

Battle of the Plains of Abraham

Previous nomination here.

As this article has been relatively stable for quite some time now, I'd like to bring it forward for another review towards A-Class and, eventually Featured status. The previous review brought forward some concerns regarding balance, quality of sourcing and wording; I found a number of good new resources to flesh things out, replaced some of the questioned sources, reworded, and added some more information where I could. I think the results have turned out fairly well, and would like to hear the views of project members once again. Tony Fox (arf!) 03:01, 25 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Nice work. I hope though, that you'll continue looking for or draw your own map of the battle that could be added to the article. Cla68 05:52, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• I do need to try and track a PD map down; I'll poke around and see what I can find. Tony Fox (arf!) 16:15, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• And why I didn't check the Commons before now, I'll never know. Article now includes a map - it's a somewhat general view of the area, but at least helps illustrate the discussion. Tony Fox (arf!) 16:37, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, with a few minor changes. I made a little typo correction already, as that was something I could easily correct. I would like a little more clarification however on the following point, the lead states that the battle involved fewer than 10,000 troops. However, down under "First engagements", it's stated that Montcalm had 13,390 troops and militia available while the British had 3,300. Later in the section though it goes on to say that Montcalm attacked with only 3,500 troops. So, it appears that 6,800 troops participated in the first engagement. The number of artillery and naval personnel involved are unstated, whether they wer included in the numbers or in addition to them. I don't know if that information is available or not, without drawing conclusions, so I'll leave that to you, but a little clarification on the numbers involved might be good, if it's available. wbfergus 13:03, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Quite right, and thank you for spotting that. I added to one sentence to clarify that the French troops involved in the main battle were those in or close by the city, and that Montcalm felt he couldn't wait to bring the others in from further east. I hope that clears it up a little! Tony Fox (arf!) 16:15, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Wandalstouring 07:34, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. The article has definately improved and deserves A-class. Kyriakos 08:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Jacques Le Gris

Self-nomination of an article recently passed for GA which the reviewer consideed to be close to FA standard, needing only a copy-edit. Am submitting it for A-class review, potentially with FA eventually in mind, so any comments would be appreciated.--Jackyd101 01:20, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. A nice article. Kyriakos 00:14, 25 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. Meets the criteria, but the section on the duel, although fun to read, isn't written in completely encyclopedic prose. Cla68 05:41, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Fort Stanton (Washington, D.C.)

This is an article I've been working on for a little bit. I think it's fairly complete, and would like to try for an A-list ranking. It's fairly typical of the articles I'm creating for the Civil War forts of Washington, D.C., and would appreciate any constructive criticism that you all could offer. Thanks. JKBrooks85 14:01, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I did a light edit for ranks and links. Nice job. The only two comments I'd make are: (1) explain what an "F. D. howitzer" is (I have no idea); (2) the map is of an area too small to figure out much context. Hal Jespersen 22:08, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I've updated the map and spelled out field howitzer. Let me know what you think now. Thanks! JKBrooks85 12:15, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. You may want to expand the lead a little, but nice work otherwise. Carom 01:27, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the support. I've expanded the lede slightly to include information about the Fort Circle project, but I'm not sure what else I should include beyond that. Any recommendations? JKBrooks85 12:06, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, although the template is very messy right now. I'm sure it will be fleshed out in no time. MrPrada 02:53, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I added a bit more information to the infobox, but I'm not sure what else I should do to it. Thanks for the support. JKBrooks85 12:06, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I meant {{Civil War DC forts}}. MrPrada 14:21, 25 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Nice work. Cla68 21:31, 22 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Ho Chi Minh Campaign

At last, the final campaign of the Vietnam War. Hope it meets the criteria. If not, looking for some constructive criticism. RM Gillespie 14:54, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support - The article is very well referenced and contains excellent graphics and images. In my opinion, it meets all the requirements. --
  Eurocopter tigre 18:04, 11 August 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support - Tjhis artilce is well wrotten and sourced it certainly meets A-class requirements. Another great article from RM Gillespie. Kyriakos 22:20, 11 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. Well done. Carom 22:44, 11 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Attack on Sydney Harbour

After some heavy slogging on the part of several editors, a peer review, and a Good Article pass, I feel it is time to see if this article makes the grade for A-class. If not, what needs to be addressed? If so, what does it need for a run at Featured status? -- saberwyn 12:00, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, but just one question. The article states: "The floatplane was seriously damaged on landing and had to be scuttled, although both aircrew survived." I thought scuttling was a term that applied only to ships...? -- Hongooi 13:25, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The term was the one used in the texts, and if taken to mean "to deliberately sink something" is valid in its context. -- saberwyn 23:03, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Wait. This article needs a lot more work. Moriori 21:30, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • What work does it need? -- saberwyn 23:03, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's confusing, for one. The first paragraph says five subs attacked Sydney (three B1s and two C1s) but the fourth paragraph says six subs attacked Sydney, (four B1s and two C1s). Also, I support JKBrooks85's comments below re readability. Needs a haircut. Moriori 23:39, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • Six subs were assigned to the operation. I-28 was sunk a few days before it could begin its part in the operation, as detailed in the fifth paragraph. Suggestions on how to make this clearer would be appreciated. -- saberwyn 01:00, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • As I said, it's confusing. In fact, eight subs attacked Sydney, five conventional and three midget. I'll be back tomorrow to make a few changes which I think will help. Cheers. Moriori 02:21, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
          • Much appreciated. -- saberwyn 08:28, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
          • I've reworded the introduction in an attempt to limit confusion. Have a look at it, please. -- saberwyn 22:04, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment — In my opinion, there's not much from the Japanese POV. A few Japanese sources might help that problem. In addition, I'd suggest editing for readability. A lot of the sentences in the article have comma splices and some are written in passive voice. JKBrooks85 23:01, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Will contact the Japanese taskforce and enquire for their assistance. -- saberwyn 23:03, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good plan. Didn't even think of that idea myself. JKBrooks85 00:49, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've done a little bit of a copyedit, but due to my proximity to the text my eyes are probably the worst to be looking through for this. Assistance in highlighting errors in spelling, grammar, and readability would be appreciated. -- saberwyn 08:28, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support meets all criteria (though I should confess that I have contributed to the article). Great work Saberwyn! As a comment, as all the Japanese subs involved in the operation were lost before the end of the war, I suspect that there unfortunetly isn't all that much which can be said from the Japanese perspective, other than the obvious observation that the men who operated the midget subs were very brave. --
  Nick Dowling 08:30, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support as in my opinion all the criterions are met. --
  Eurocopter tigre 18:24, 31 July 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support. In my opinion I think it meets all the criteria and that is a good article. Kyriakos 06:37, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. Looks pretty good. Is there any way that the references could be put into two columns, instead of one long one? I've seen that style in other articles, and it helps break up that long list. JKBrooks85 16:52, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The reflist template was set to 3 columns, I've set it back to 2. Can someone confirm that the list is in two columns, as it does not and has never displayed on my computer. -- saberwyn 21:49, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Walter Model

Self-nomination, taking this to the next stage after getting some encouraging feedback from peer review. Might even think about going for FA-class if it all pans out well. -- Hongooi 18:42, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Clear, interesting and well written. Minor quibble: There is a mixture of UK / US spellings throughout. That aside, Great stuff. Raymond Palmer 16:14, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Nice work. Carom 22:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Ehime Maru and USS Greeneville collision

Respectfully submit this article for A-class review about a ship collision between an United States Navy submarine and a Japanese high school fishing training ship that happened a few years ago. Cla68 02:42, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Well done. Carom 18:48, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support, substantially improved from the last time I happened to read the article. Good work. Megapixie 01:26, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support an excellent article - comprehensive and highly readable. I'd recomend a copy edit to remove the sprinkling of
  Nick Dowling 10:07, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support — Excellent work all around, and fantastic citations. My only quibble is that you might want to include damage to the Greeneville in the infobox as part of the results section. JKBrooks85 17:40, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Easter Offensive

This starter has moved up to B-Class and undergone a peer review. Am now seeking A status and/or constructive criticism. RM Gillespie 15:22, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. One concern though, in the infobox it says that 40,000 North Vietnamese were killed in the battle but in the Conclusion section it says that 100,000 were killed. Cla68 03:18, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• • Appreciate that discerning eye! Changed the wording in the final to casualties. This has been a sticky one. Although PAVN casualties were indeed horrendous, there was, and is, no way to obtain accuracy in their reporting, ecpecially during the final phases of the Vietnam War. It is doubtful if, even today, the Hanoi government has accurate figures on its casualties during the period 1972-1975.

• Support. Well-written, another good article. Carom 18:49, 14 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. Great article. Kyriakos 23:28, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Cannon

The main article for the

• Support. Comment. Is the development of rifling part of the history of cannons? Perhaps I missed it, but I didn't see this discussed in the article. Cla68 21:09, 10 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I added it to the See also section, as I think it is more within the scope of
    History of cannon than the main article. --Grimhelm 22:04, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply
    ]
    • I think more of the technological development of cannon, such as the introduction of rifling, should be in the body. Cla68 23:00, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, as I did before, although I still believe that the "see also" section should be abandoned, and the relevant links incorporated into the body of the article. Carom 22:36, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. The article is sufficent but I agree with Carom that the See Also section should be removed. Kyriakos 23:59, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment. There are many things I did like. Please forgive me on concentrationg on things I did not like, and feel free to disagree. As I see it, every subsection in the "history" section of the article should give a (relatively short) explanation of important technical developments and of a role - with an emphasis on changes in a role - of cannon in the specific era and/or region, while the separate "History of cannon" article provides - or will eventually provide - more detils. Some subsections, however, are far from being good overviews - sometimes a bit too detailed, often missing key points, sometimes too "chaotic". I like the "early" and "medieval europe" (although, the article lets the reader to conclude that cannons played a significant role at Crecy, which is questionable at least). However, the "post-medieval" and the "18-19 century" IMHO concentrate too heavily on siege warfare and on naval artillery respectively. Both seem to ignore field artillery, which started to play a major role in post-medieval campaigns and by 19th century developed into a key factor on battlefield. As already mentioned by Cla68, the "18-19"" ignores important techical developments such as rifling, breech loading (and possibly recoil systems, also one can say that it should belong to the "modern" section). As for the "modern"... may be I am wrong, but I think it needs a major rewriting. Again, key technical developments (recoil systems if not mentioned earlier, possibly split trail carriage, possibly mortars, certainly SP artillery etc, possibly introduction of lots of new ammunition types) and change in battlefield roles (such as anti-tank and anti-aircraft warfare) are missing or almost missing. Moreover, the section simply looks confusing to me, as it seems to run back and forth between different periods, types of weapons etc without following any order. Since there were so many relevant developments in the modern era, perhaps that subsection should be split ? Again, may be I'm wrong or just too pedantic. I do understand that the task is quite ambitious and that a lot of effort had been put in the article. And I did like many parts of the article. And, being an inexperienced reviewer, I don't claim that the article is not good enough for A class. However, as a pedant with some interest in artillery, I have to say that IMHO it still needs a lot of work before I will be able to say to somebody who asks me what cannon is - go read the wikipedia article. Bukvoed 07:59, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - I have removed the see also section, and added a few paragraphs on field artillery. As for Crécy, medieval cannon had more of a psychological impact (which would be useful against an army three times your size), and it was a new experience for infantry unused to gunpowder warfare. --Grimhelm 09:57, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Structural history of the Roman military

I have been working on this article on and off for several months. It is one of 5 sister articles that I aim to take to FA eventually. Campaign history of the Roman military was taken successfully to FA, and this is the second one I am concentrating on. Another editor recently nominated the article for GA status recently, which is passed. I would like to gain A-class status for this article on its way to FA. I have got the point where to me the article looks complete but I need feedback from other editors in order to take it forward. I am self-nominating it for A class, but any comments for improvement are welcome. PocklingtonDan (talk) 19:38, 8 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support No complaints here. Carom 20:06, 8 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support A wonderfully written and illustrated article. Great work. --
  Nick Dowling 10:31, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support. Bukvoed 18:31, 10 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Support — Wonderfully detailed. JKBrooks85 12:37, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support does present all facts Wandalstouring 17:02, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. Wonderful article. Kyriakos 23:52, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - thanks for all the support guys - since no-one seems to have any criticisms of the article at this time, could one of the co-ordinators get this review closed off please and I'll move the article straight to FAC. Cheers - PocklingtonDan (talk) 18:31, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Sukhoi Su-25

Very good article with proper images and references. I worked a lot on it in the past few time, and I would like to know if it deserves to become an A-class article. Regards, --

• ComentSupport This really needs a good copyedit, but it appears to meet the other criteria. Carom 19:11, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I already talked with some people to help me do it. So, are you supporting it? --

Not until the prose has been improved a little (although, I'm not actively opposing it, either). Carom 19:37, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Can you tell me exactly which sections currently need attention and most urgent copyediting? Thanks, --
  Eurocopter tigre 19:55, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]

The whole article needs to be looked at, really. In particular, there are a number of long, clunky sentences that could be reworded or recombined to allow for a better flow, and you may wish to examine the comma usage in some places - there are a number of unneccessary commas that make for awkward reading. Carom 21:42, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support — I've copyedited a few of the sections, and fixed a date error in the intro paragraph -- it didn't agree with one of your cites later on. It's a pretty comprehensive look on the subject, and even though I'm not familiar with the topic, I felt that it was easy to read. JKBrooks85 15:28, 8 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support — I've read through it all and reworded in places to clarify. It looks good. Very good detail on the design. -Fnlayson 21:52, 8 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment the images used on the page appear to lack sources outside of a very vague link to a website, and the claim of PD on all of them needs further justification. Megapixie 06:00, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Infact given [5] they would seem to all be unfree... Megapixie 06:17, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See this link [6], there is a clear copyright information at the bottom of the page - Copyright notice: Information on this non-profit web site has been collected from a variety of printed and online sources for educational purposes in accordance with the Fair Use clause of the U.S. copyright law. --

Eurocopter tigre 07:42, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

That would make them unfree for the purposes of wikipedia. It's basically saying "we took these images from copyright books, websites and magazines and are using them here because we think we can get away with it". The only way we could use them is under fair-use, however we don't have a clear source, and they fall outside the

WP:NFCC. Megapixie 07:53, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

But the images were taken from books, sites, etc, in accordance with the US copyright law - and the site clearly says they are under fair-use. So, our source is 'www.aeronautics.ru', a site which guarantees that this images are in fair use, and it is not our, or wikipedia's business to verify if this is true or not. --

Eurocopter tigre 08:19, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

Look I don't know how to say this politely - but you are completely wrong about this. www.aeronautics.com is almost certainly not the copyright holder, therefore they cannot release the images. The page that sums this up most succiently is Wikipedia:Upload/Unknown_author_or_license. If you want to read up on this (and you should before uploading any more images) see the image use policy at Wikipedia:Image use policy. In particular

" Before you upload an image, make sure that either:

• You own the rights to the image (usually meaning that you created the image yourself).
• You can prove that the copyright holder has licensed the image under an acceptable free license.
• You can prove that the image is in the public domain".

Of which you have done none. Megapixie 08:57, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• You can prove that the image is in the public domain" - In my opinion, that copyright notice proves that the image is under fair use in public domain. I really don't know what to say anymore, we should find a compromise for the sake of the article. Is there any chance to change the licensing claims into better ones? --
  Eurocopter tigre 09:11, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
  • Aeronautics.ru's fair use claim works here as well, I believe. It's just info on the original source needs to be added here in the fair use rationale claim. It may take contacting the site to fins that out. -Fnlayson 13:13, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ultimately none of the images from Aeronautics don't pass

WP:NFCC

criteria 1,2 and 10a:

• We could reasonable create replacements for all of the images (1)
• All of the images were likely being commercially exploited (2)
• we have absolutely no idea where any of them ORIGINALLY came from (10a)

10a is fixable. The other two are not. Even if they were - we are not commenting on the images critically, they are not uniquely historic (none of them would justify there own article per Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima) and we are certainly not using them for parody so they aren't fair use. Megapixie 13:40, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wait, most probable some of this images were taken by Soviet Air Force or other Soviet/Russian officials, so this images would fall under something similar with the {{

• Replacement images may be available but not readily (Iron curtain thing). I'm not sure of the commercial aspects of the images themselves. Some images of newer versions may be attainable though. Possible tags are {{PD-RU-exempt}}, {{PD-Russia}} or Image copyright tags. I hate trying to go back and fix CP tagging on images.. -Fnlayson 17:36, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• • Me too, but unfortunately there is always somebody who is assuming bad faith, and like to screw up other people's work, so we will have to find a sollution to fix this problem for the sake of the article. I have studied the Russian Copyright Laws, and the {{
    Eurocopter tigre 17:54, 9 July 2007 (UTC)[reply
    ]

I have listed the images at

WP:PUI. Megapixie 11:58, 10 July 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

• Support — It meets requirements, though it still needs some copyediting. I'll try to work on it. --Victor12 16:08, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - Seems to have met the criteria. Kyriakos 23:44, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

37 mm Gun M3

Self nomination. The article was peer reviewed recently and the reviewers suggested that it might be good enough for A-class. Bukvoed 06:45, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Nice article that appears to meet the criteria. CLA 07:20, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Quite. Carom 19:12, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support A very good article which provides a detailed overview of the gun and how it was used. --
  Nick Dowling 01:28, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support. Good article. Kyriakos 01:33, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. LostArtilleryman 17:32, 7 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

HMS Ledbury (L90)

Hi, I'm not sure whether I'm allowed to nominate an article of my own so bear with me if I broke some rule; I wish to nominate this article because destroyers are usually passed over by most histories of the Second World War in favour of more glamourous capital ships, so I thought these workhorses deserved a little more recognition for their contribution...I chose the Ledbury because it was active in many theatres during the war, even if its main action occurred in the Mediterranean. I hope I've satisfied the requirements of this encyclopaedia, but as I've said I'm still new here.

Throughout, ship names should be in italics. As it stands they are mixed (particularly Ledbury).

As stated on talk pages and in the peer review i have rectified my mistake and put the ships names into italics.Woodym555 20:54, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

When introducing Tirpitz etc it is worth describing what they were -

pocket battleships

.

'The Ledbury found the Ohio and the Dorset with the Bramham standing by the Dorset and the Penn dropping depth charges' - this sentence could be clearer, the Dorest appears to be in two places.

Well done! (Self-nominations are quite allowed, by the way. Often they are both an important way of keen editors getting feedback for 'their' articles and of making sure that quality work is recognised) The Land 20:13, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think I've addressed the issues raised so far; I described the German surface elements as commerce raiders, with a link to the Kriegsmarine nearby. I also removed the double Dorset reference...I have referred to it twice by mistake. Thanks for the support and help!!

Reuv 21:28, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

As above, ships names should be consistently italicised. However, prefixes should not.

HMS Ledbury (1940)

(''[[HMS Ledbury (1940)|HMS Ledbury (1940)]]'')

Check where wikilinks go. Several lead to disambiguation pages, or to irrelevant topics. Also, at some points you've linked concepts in multiple words. One of the ones I fixed in my brief copyedit was [[escort]] [[destroyer]]. By taking out the middle brackets, the link becomes escort destroyer, which is more specific.

References should be listed in author surname alphabetical order.

Don't be afraid to use German names like Kriegsmarine or Luftwaffe, instead of pipe-linking over them with "German Navy" or "German aviators".

Question, should this page be at the pennant number (HMS Ledbury (L90))?

I hope you take these on board, and that your article makes it to A-class. -- saberwyn 05:03, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I sorted out the references and the links to the German names, and I also improved the wikilinks to other topics. I agree with the pennant number

Reuv 11:43, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

I have moved the page for you and renamed the reviews involved accordingly. Pages can be moved using the icon in the top right of the browser entitled "move". Help can be found at Meta Help on moving page Woodym555 13:50, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support
  as peer reviewer of the article. Support as per above, as long as the references are sorted, i see no reason why it cannot be A-Class. Well done Woodym555 10:53, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Support. Really nice and interesting article. Per peer review and above, it deserves to become an A-class article. --
  Eurocopter tigre 08:52, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]

Victoria Cross

Hi, this article is currently undergoing peer review in which no major problems were found, any that did arise have been fixed. As this is a "top" priority article i though it could do woth an A-Class review. Thanks in advance Woodym555 08:34, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Appears to meet the criteria. CLA 20:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose This is a very good article, but it seems to contain some vagueness which should be clarified and some irrelevant material. For instance:

*"it has been suggested by some that the changing nature of warfare will result in fewer VCs being awarded" - who are these 'some' (are they credible?) and why is this the case?

Done, The some are Lord Ashcroft in his book and John Glanfield in his. I have amended the sentence accordingly

*"Only one in ten VC recipients in the twentieth century is said to have survived the action for which they received the VC" - is this speculation ('is said') or a fact? - are there reliable statistics on this you can cite?

Done This was mere conjecture, i agree, and there is no statement anywhere that backs this up. I am sure trawling through the archives would support this, but this could be classed as original research so i have omitted the statement.

*I was confused by the discussion of the source of the metal used to make VCs. Is the source from Russian guns or Chinese guns? - the section seems to suggest both. Also, is it known whether non-British VCs would be made from this metal as well?

Done The metal was captured from the russians during the crimean war but it was a chinese weapon. Also during the first world war many medals were being created and so a new cannon had to be used to meet requirements.

*Some sections of the article read like trivia and should be reworked - for instance, the text on the photo of the Canadian during the actions which would win him the VC - this is interesting, but is it significant? "In 2004 a national Victoria Cross and George Cross memorial was installed in Westminster Abbey close to the tomb of The Unknown Warrior' - you need to explain why this is significant for readers who aren't aware of Westminster Abbey's role and status. It's also not clear to me why the men who have been awarded the VC in the last few years are highlighted with brief accounts of their actions when no-one else really gets this treatment.

Done

• Deleted irrevalent picture and comments, this was a remnant from before i picked up the article.
• Spoke slightly about Wetminster Abbey and its significance but the wikilink does the rest.
• Have updated and rewritten section on recent awards. Budd has a section describing his award as it is the most recent awarded and provides context for awards in the modern style of warfare.

*"a Canadian version has been cast and is expected to be awarded in April, 2007" - has this happened? Victoria Cross (Canada) seems to indicate that it hasn't and won't, and doesn't confirm that the medal was cast.

Done Expanded section talking about the fact it was created but not awarded.

*The 'Sales of the VC' section needs to reworked to acknowledge that many more than just the two VCs listed have been sold. A discussion of the ethics of doing so might also be interesting - this is discussed in the Australian media every time a VC is placed on the market (even though the medal is inevitably donated to the AWM's collection). --

Nick Dowling 23:45, 23 June 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

Done up to a point. I dont think Wikipedia is an ethical debate forum. However I have given a comment by the VC secretary as to why they have been sold. This provides the context for the rest of the section.

I have edited the article where relevant to your comments. I hope this assuages your concerns. Thankyou for your help. Woodym555 11:40, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, quite informative Wandalstouring 08:53, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support all the concerns I raised above are now met. Sorry if I seemed a bit of a pain in the neck. --
  Nick Dowling 08:57, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]

No, not a pain in the neck. Just a very thorough reviewer, and that was what was needed. Thankyou for taking the time to review it in detail and your comments have made it a better article. Thankyou Woodym555 11:34, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support -Flubeca (t) 13:50, 25 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Michael Brown Okinawa assault incident

Self-nominating this article for A-class review. It passed GA review ([7]) but recently failed FAC review ([8]). CLA 23:23, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support a well-written and interesting article on a slighly unusual, but important, topic. I'd suggest that the discussion of how this case was viewed in Japan be expanded to bring it up to FA status as this seems a bit short compared to the text on the trial, especially as it was the Japanese public and governmental reactions which give this incident its significance, and not the crime per-se. --
  Nick Dowling 00:33, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
  • Good advice on how to improve the article. Thank you. CLA 02:06, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Wandalstouring 09:59, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Ironclad warship

This article about a relatively obscure bit of naval history is now approaching the FA criteria. I think the concerns raised about style and citation at

Good article that is almost there. Issues resolved. CLA 02:55, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Think that's all sorted. Added afew more images as well. The Land 10:00, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Carom 17:59, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Andrew Cunningham, 1st Viscount Cunningham of Hyndhope

I am respectfully nominating this article for A-class review, i have just put it through peer review and i believe it now meets the criteria for A-class. Thankyou Woodym555 16:58, 14 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sure he was a nice chap and knew his job, but the intro is far away from neutrally presenting facts. Almost every general is somehow famous because at least his subordinates know his name. Wandalstouring 08:01, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed what i think were some weasel words and i do now think that it is a neutral introduction that does adequately summarise the article.Woodym555 16:11, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, with reservations. I think the lead could do with improvement (will take a look at it myself). Also I'm not sure that the web sources which provide the bulk of the references are of the highest quality. The Hood Association bio, for instance, is essentially self-published and non-reviewed. I doubt there is too much error introduced as a result, but much better to reference the published biograhies which the Hood Association article summarises. The Land 20:19, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thankyou for your comments. I have removed all but one of the HMS Hood bio refs and replaced them with oublished. The only major contributor of web based refs is now the Royal Navy and i think they are a fairly reputable source even if they are POV. Woodym555 11:56, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Oppose. I think the article is almost there. I tried to fix some of the POV problems, but the sections on the World War II battles just don't flow very well. Each of those sections should summarize the main battle articles, with brief background, action, aftermath, and significance descriptions with dates, as well as highlighting Cunningham's role in each. Also, is there more information on his post-war life? The references section lists 11 books that look like they have good information on this admiral, but it appears that only three or four of those books were used as sources for the article. Furthermore, the references aren't listed in alphabetical order by author's name. I think you've done good work with the article, but it just needs a little more work to meet the criteria. CLA 00:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have sorted the refs and moved some to a further reading section as they are not used. They were original references that i have not read or seen and as such i can't use them. I have restructured most of the WWII battles now and think i have addressed your concerns Woodym555 11:56, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think it meets the criteria now but you might should recheck some of the punctuation and sentence structure in the WWII section. If you have a chance to look at the other references that weren't used they might provide you with more information for some of the smaller sections like his post-WWII life. CLA 16:25, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Battle of Cape Esperance

Respectfully nominate this article about a World War II Pacific War naval battle for A-class review. CLA 13:04, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support --
  Eurocopter tigre 13:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support. Kyriakos 22:11, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - another well written and comprehensive article on this campaign. I'd recomend a full copy edit before FA nomination though as I spotted a few typos and the second para of the introduction might be a bit too long. --
  Nick Dowling 11:24, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]

Point well taken and I appreciate your help with the article. CLA 13:24, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, echoing Nick Dowling's comments about copyediting: could also do with a thorough read for prose, I've chipped in a bit. The Land 20:10, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Battle of Arras (1917)

Renomination. This article was recently added as a Good Article, and I believe that all the concerns raised in the previous A-Class review and the peer review have been resolved by myself or Roger Davies. All comments and concerns welcomed. Carom 18:46, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support'. Well written article. Kyriakos 23:15, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - a comprehensive and interesting article. My only suggestion is that that the 'Creeping barrage' section needs a citation. --
  Nick Dowling 10:30, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support - here's some improvement suggestions from the automated peer review script..

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

• Per
  [?]
• Per
  [?]
• As done in
  [?]
• Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of
  [?]

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Medains 11:33, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, although I have a few suggestions. I suggest a few more sentences in the background explaining how the Allied and German armies ended-up facing each other in 1917. I'm somewhat familiar with WWI but I don't know exactly the chain events leading to where those two adversaries found themselves in 1917. Also, there's a lot of one-paragraph sections, although in this case that might be ok since each section is usually on a completely different topic than the preceeding and following sections, but I still think some sections could be combined. Otherwise, I think it meets the criteria. Nice work. CLA 01:51, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Leaning towards opposing

• Under the Commanders section it says Falkenhausen was removed from the Third Army. Surely you mean Sixth Army.

There are an awful lot of small sections. Can the Commanders section be merged with the Aftermath?

• In the Political Background an entire paragraph consist of the line: “In Germany, the storm clouds were gathering too.” This is not very informative.

Additionally, the US declared war in 1917, not 1916!

• Three sections are completely unsourced.

What’s the source for the strengths?

• Needs a thorough check for typos and errors. Eg: citations come after punctuation and without spaces:

Additionally, German records excluded those "lightly wounded".[27] Captain Cyril Falls (the British official battle historian) estimated that 30% needed to be added to German returns for comparison with the British". [27] Falls makes "a general estimate" that German casualties were "probably fairly equal". [27] Nicholls puts them at 120,000.[26]; and Keegan at 130,000[28].

Others errors throughout. Raymond Palmer 10:00, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry about that. Various things went wrong whilst I was editing it this morning. I've fixed (most of) what you mention. Commanders was meant to be part of aftermath and now is. 1916 was a typo. Roger 14:36, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone through and done some ref cleanup; it appears your specific objections have been addressed. Carom 17:22, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Please check the change I made in the Second Battle of Bullecourt section, and the Battle of Arleux section. I reworded the original sentences that didn’t seem clear (to me at least), and I hoped I haven't changed the history.

In the Commanders section it quotes a Times article on ‘Falkenhausen's reign of terror’. It was common practice for opposing media to vilify the opposition with tales of atrocity, was it not? Is this story verifiable from another source other than the British press?

Nicely done overall IMO. Raymond Palmer 21:59, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Battle of Red Cliffs

Recently promoted to

• Support Generally good (although perhaps a little on the short side). Two minor quibbles, though. I'm not a huge fine of the style of referencing that you've adopted, as I find it breaks up the text and makes it difficult to read. Would you consider switching to footnotes? Also, would it be possible to have some external links, or are there none that are suitable? Carom 18:59, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply Thank you for your comments! :-)

1. The article may be a bit longer eventually. We are discussing adding a section (probably brief!) covering modern references to the battle.
2. I'm absolutely positive that we can scare up some worthwhile external links. Thanks for the suggestion...
3. For my part, since both
   FAC
   using this style (I believe that article will be on the main page tomorrow!)

Thanks!

Ling.Nut 19:14, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

Citation style is more a personal choice than anything else, and I certainly won't insist on footnotes. Nice work so far, and good luck! Carom 19:23, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support An interesting article, I enjoyed reading it. My one suggestion for improvement would be to lose the line reducing the text size in the refernce section (I don't really see a need for it on such a short page), otherwise its "A" all the way. Good Job! TomStar81 (Talk) 00:53, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply Thanks the kind words! :-) I changed the font size of the Refs section, as per your suggestion...

Ling.Nut 01:21, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

• Support. A-class level article. Not every paragraph has a citation, but otherwise looks good. Nice work. CLA 08:23, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Good coverage of the material. Three possible improvements - the phrase (roughly modern Hubei and Hunan provinces, including the strategic naval base at Jiangling) in the background section took me a couple of reads to work out what it meant - the naval base at Jiangling seems to be in modern context, being inside the bracket, but becomes clear later in the text that it's nearby the battle site. The second improvement would be to have a clear summary of the forces for each side - the estimates in the last paragraph are good but might be better tabulated to show the subcommanders. The last would be to address the following items that an "automated peer review" came up with (not necessarily all of them though - remember it's just from an automated program).

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

• Per
  [?]
• When writing standard abbreviations, the abbreviations should not have a 's' to demark plurality (for example, change kms to km and lbs to lb).
• Watch for
  redundancy exercises
  .)
  • Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
• You may wish to convert your form of references to the cite.php footnote system that
  WP:WIAFA
  1(c) highly recommends.

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Medains 21:23, 4 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments!! We'll get to work on them, except one, which is clearly erroneous.

Ling.Nut 00:58, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

Fine, as I said that's generated by AndyZ's javascript - I use it as a guideline to catch things that are not necessarily visible, or that I might miss on reading. Medains 10:42, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(undent) Yes... I really do appreciate for your help, and I also want to separate the remarks that are yours from those that are auto-generated... please forgive me if I didn't make it clear that the javascript made that error, not you. :-) I'm just trying to do my part to dispel a common misconception. I really do appreciate your comments. I hope my reply didn't catch you off guard... thanks!!!

Australian Defence Force

This article

• Support Is definitely A-Class material, but first sentence is a bit awkward. --Pupster21 Talk To Me 19:02, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. Superlative article. Sets the standard for what articles about current military organizations should look like. Great work. Cla68 04:00, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
• Suggestion: are there any areas of major criticism of the ADF (Im thinking like the crime/corruption section of Russian Ground Forces) which should be added to give a fully balanced viewpoint, thinking of full FA status? Buckshot06 09:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's a good point and thank you for the suggestion. While the ADF doesn't suffer anything like the Russian military's problems it does face a couple of significant issues; namely its ability to conduct high-intensity warfare is very limited and it is suffering from serious shortages of skilled personnel. Both these issues are touched on in the article at present, but could be expanded as they do represent significant limitations. --

Nick Dowling 11:03, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

Im not suggesting the ADF does suffer anything like the problems the Russians face! However a section on lack of skilled personnel could be very useful, as it is a problem faced by most Western armies; once you've done a bit on it for the ADF it could be run with for the US, UK, NZ etc... Buckshot06 12:05, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Have watched it grow from a stub to a comprehensive article, well done. Hossen27 14:45, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Ronald Niel Stuart

World War One Victoria Cross recipient with a long an varied maritime career. Been working at this for a couple of days and have turned it from this into its current shape. Planning to go to FA with this eventually, and any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks--Jackyd101 23:28, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Comment. I think it's a good article, but have just a few suggestions:
  • All dates (month and day) should be wikilinked.
  • The information in the last paragraph under "HMS Tamarisk" about him getting married and having children isn't cited.
  • What was the cause of his death? Cla68 07:04, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

marriage cited, cause of death isn't mentioned in any of the sources. He was 67 and its unlikely to be anything other than natural causes, but I didn't want to assume. I thought I had Wikilinked all the dates (excluding solo years), which ones have I missed? Thankyou for your comments.--Jackyd101 09:05, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• • This appears to be a good article that is well-cited. 11:41, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

• Support This is really nicely done, and a very interesting article. Should easily make A-Class at least. Raymond Palmer 15:21, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Carom 21:06, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Good read BUT a tiny bit more info - a couple of words - about the later merchantmen might be appropriate. We've only really got their tonnages. Was there a reconciliation with his children in later life? Roger 06:29, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've had a look, but there really isn't much out there on these ships at this time. Duchess of York and Empress of Britain both had quite extensive war careers before being sunk, but that is outside the remit of this article. The only other important thing was the royal tour of Canada on the Empress of Britain, but that was in 1939 after he had left the ship. I've put in some small details, but I couldn't expand it much further. Reading between the lines, I don't think he ever did reconcile with his children, but again this is not explicitly stated anywhere and I'm loathe to guess. Thankyou for your comments.--Jackyd101 10:26, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment After some searching on a seperate matter, I accidentally turned up the full London Gazette citation for this VC action (which I had given up on finding before, it was released at a later date due to official secrecy). I have now added it (and a few supplementary details) to the article. It has not dramatically changed the piece, but has made it a bit longer. Just wanted to add this note here to clarify its sudden appearance.--Jackyd101 01:38, 26 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Operation Lam Son 719

Have brought this one up from a stub and am looking for constructive criticism. RM Gillespie 15:29, 18 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. Issues resolved. Good article. Comment.
  • Article appears to have some POV for the Republic of Vietnam. The infobox says, "South Vietnamese defeat" instead of "North Vietnamese victory." Also, the third paragraph in the intro begins with, "Unfortunately" with regards to the South Vietnamese efforts. If it said, "Unfortunately for the South Vietnamese," then it would be NPOV.
  • Some paragraphs don't have citations.
  • The first sentence of the last paragraph in the background section begins with "and" and is a POV sentence since it associates Communist activities with "ominous."
  • Otherwise, I think there's a lot of good information in the article, it's well organized, and nicely illustrated. Cla68 23:08, 18 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Have addressed your POV concerns which, I must admit, did not occur to me when writing it. Footnoting also extended. Thanks. RM Gillespie 15:04, 19 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Carom 16:37, 21 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is preserved as an

archive

. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

AHS Centaur

Following several weaks of heavy work and reccomendation by another editor, I am submitting AHS Centaur for A Class Review. I wish to see if the article quality is good enough for A status, or if not, what needs to be worked on to drag it the rest of the way. -- saberwyn 06:08, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Start by getting all the date wikilinks (or not sorted out). Then theres the indent on references as part of bibliography. Some unencylopedic phrasing "The cost blew out..." . Thumbed picture hardcoding of sizes. Perhaps GA article status should be the first point of call before A. GraemeLeggett 09:04, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also look at the Guide on

Lead section writing. GraemeLeggett 09:17, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply

]

1. All dates have been wikilinked, and other edits made per
   Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)
2. Indent on "references" has been used to indicate that the references are taken as part of the bibliography (by showing exactly where and how each text is used), and to differentiate it from the "Footnotes" section below to decrease confusion (or so I hoped).
   • Is the current layout what you mean? -- saberwyn 11:56, 18 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
3. Some unencyclopedic phrasing, including your specific example, has been altered. Due to my 'proximity' to the text, I may personally be unable to identify other instances.
4. "Thumbed picture hardcoding of sizes"... Could you please elaborate. I don't have a clue what you mean by this.
5. Maybe. I personally find the "A/GA" thing confusing, particularly with regards to which comes first. Following the conclusion of this assessment, if failed, I will submit for GA.

Further comments? -- saberwyn 10:09, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have inserted 3 {{

I personally don't like red links. So i suggest creating articles even if they would be stubs. If you need any help on that please drop me a line. -- FayssalF - ^{Wiki me up®} 16:03, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's worth noting that statements cited in the body of the article don't need to have duplicate citations in the lead, incidentally. Kirill Lokshin 16:41, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Which is why I didn't cite them in the intro. However, I will go and add have added the relevant citations. -- saberwyn 22:57, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]