Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2022 May 23

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The result was keep. Sources have been confirmed to exist. TPH, I'm not going to tone police you, but this sub-conversation is not productive. You're welcome to add the sources yourself as well. Star Mississippi 02:15, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Taking On Tyson

Taking On Tyson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Deprodded with sources, but they don't seem to be much in the way of

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:37, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Sources in article are sufficient enough to pass
  WP:GNG at the very least. DonaldD23 talk to me 21:57, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

  Guess what, more press releases. The fact that the Associated Press will write about literally TV show if you throw enough money their way is not an indicator of notability. Ten Pound Hammer • ⁽What did I screw up now?) 22:22, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Not press releases. Again, press releases are written by the makers, not independent news agencies. DonaldD23 talk to me 22:32, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    They were written because the maker of the show told them to write X words gushing about how good the show is. That's still a primary source. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 22:37, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    Where is your proof that these are paid promotions? Provide facts to support these statements. DonaldD23 talk to me 22:50, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    "blah blah blah ASSOCIATED PRESS" is all the proof I need. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 22:57, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    Purely your opinion. No different than conservatives in the US saying CNN isn't true and liberals in the US saying FOX News isn't true. DonaldD23 talk to me 23:10, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  You think the AP is a paid promotion agency?

  matt91486 (talk) 16:08, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply

  ]

• Keep -- sources meet the GNG an are not, as mistakenly argued above, press releases but are secondary coverage.
  matt91486 (talk) 16:08, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

  Additional sources on page 2 of google results: [9], [10], [11], [12]. This well exceeds the GNG. Also, for the record, a press release about the show does in fact exist, and it can be found here: [13].

  matt91486 (talk) 16:11, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply

  ]

  And of course, these sources will just magically add themselves to the article, right? Ten Pound Hammer • ⁽What did I screw up now?) 16:21, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  A. I added one to the article before posting them. B. You know very well that AfD is about demonstrating sources *exist*. This has done so.

  matt91486 (talk) 16:53, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply

  ]

  I see the same cycle every time:

  1. Article is nominated for deletion
  2. Several people in AFD find sources
  3. AFD closes as keep
  4. No one ever adds sources to article; article is still an unsourced stub 15 years later
  5. Lather rinse repeat

  Break the cycle. Add the damn sources yourself. Ten Pound Hammer • ⁽What did I screw up now?) 19:47, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  If you want to reform the entire AfD process, you are welcome to try to initiate that elsewhere, but this is not the appropriate place for that discussion. AfD is about demonstrating the subject of the article is notable. These sources easily do that.

  matt91486 (talk) 22:49, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply

  ]

  Then why aren't they in the article, hmm? Ten Pound Hammer • ⁽What did I screw up now?) 22:52, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  perhaps the cycle could be broken within the policies and guidelines, respecting

  WP:N. Deletion is not cleanup. There are many ways to improve articles, including various cleanup mechanisms and fixing it yourself. We are all wasting a lot of time and energy here. Deleting the crap is very important, but spending time nominating, defending, and arguing over articles that are notable for cleanup reasons is a huge negative to the project. Jacona (talk) 11:44, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply

  ]

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The result was delete. ✗plicit 23:43, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List of people on the postage stamps of Ecuador

List of people on the postage stamps of Ecuador (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Yet another "list of people on the postage stamps of X" that suffers the same problem as the others: unsourced, unmaintained, unverifiable, erroneous, you name it. Prod contested because

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people and Ecuador. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:34, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete This is the first Wikipedia article I have seen sourced only to pintrist. That is not a good sign. Wikipedia is not meant to be an indiscrminate listing of everything, and that is what a list like this would lead us towards being. We really need to cut out philatelycruft.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:13, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom. This is something for another kind of project, outside of Wikipedia. BD2412 T 21:46, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Star Mississippi 02:14, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List of people on the postage stamps of Argentina

List of people on the postage stamps of Argentina (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Yet another "list of people on the postage stamps of X" that suffers the same problem as the others: unsourced, unmaintained, unverifiable, erroneous, you name it. Prod contested because

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people and Argentina. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:33, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete the article lacks any sources, let alone sources that show that this grouping is a signifcant grouping. We really need to cut back on philatelycruft in Wikipedia. There are also way too many articles on people that just say that they signed the role of notable stamp collectors.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:30, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom. This is something for another kind of project, outside of Wikipedia. BD2412 T 21:45, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep (This vote of course is meaningless since the decision to delete has already been made). Book indexes and Wikipedia lists are both very similar. They provide quick ways to search for information in a large "collection". No-one would ever dare to remove an index section from a non-fiction work. The work would become almost useless and impossible to search. Wikipedia lists could provide the same function. The issue of "notability" has been raised. Are lists "NOTABLE"? Probably not. Are lists "USEFUL"? Highly.

Wikipedia started in 2001. The embryo of Lists of People on Postage Stamps (LPPS) started in 2002 and has been added to sporadically over the last 20 years. Philately is a hobby so updates occurred once in a while as collectors chose to enhance the data. I chose to update Central and South America in 2013 and was doing the same in 2022. I followed the format and content developed over 20 years. I believed that it had been vetted and approved before I started my updates. Hundreds of volunteers have dedicated thousands of hours to creating and maintaining these lists. Obviously there is no point in continuing.

For some reason, this particular set of lists (LPPS) seems to have galled users Fram, Johnpacklambert, and TenPoundHammer to the point where they have initiated a complete purge of the list tree. One of them actually referred to the lists as "philatelykruft". (I assume "kruft" is Newspeak for Bovine Fecal Matter). There was no round table discussion on how to improve the articles. There was no call for volunteers to work on changes or improvements. There was no effort to make the list more "notable" (a highly vague concept). Instead a major purge has been started. Further discussion is meaningless in AfDs since the purge effort is in full swing.

Thank you to all of the stamp collectors who built the lists over the years (although you may never see my thanks!!!). I had enough notice that I was able to take copies of many of the files for my personal use. I am saddened that so much effort is being destroyed. Good bye Bill Blampied (talk) 22:45, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ✗plicit 23:45, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List of people on the postage stamps of Bhutan

List of people on the postage stamps of Bhutan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Yet another "list of people on the postage stamps of X" that suffers the same problem as the others: unsourced, unmaintained, unverifiable, erroneous, you name it. Prod contested because

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:32, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! I just found that stub and added to it. It exists for other countries as well. I thought it not really useful, although for some countries social scientists have examined the people on postage stamps to make some analysis of the society as a whole, especially historidal or political figures on stamps responding to the government in charge at a certain time. But a list without further comments indeed does not bring much addition to the philatelic information of a certain country, while a short comment like "in those and those periods especially political and historial local persons figured on the postage stamps issued during those times" (if there is any ref available) in the main philatelic page for a country (Postage stamps and postal history of xxx) will do. Best regards. PS: if there is no ref available, I have the habit to write an article in a philatelic magazine on the topic, so I have a ref :-) Leovdvxxx (talk) 09:24, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• • If there is an article worth saving it is Postage stamps and postal history of Bhutan, not this one.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:22, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete there are not the multiple sources on this topic we need to show notability. This is a level of philatelycruft that does not fit with the actual purposes of Wikipedia.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:32, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom. This is something for another kind of project, outside of Wikipedia. BD2412 T 21:46, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ✗plicit 23:45, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List of people on the postage stamps of Belize

List of people on the postage stamps of Belize (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Yet another "list of people on the postage stamps of X" that suffers the same problem as the others: unsourced, unmaintained, unverifiable, erroneous, you name it. Prod contested because

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Belize-related deletion discussions. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:32, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete The Scott Catalogue seeks to be a comprehensive list of all stamps. That is not the type of source that shows that anything is notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:31, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom. This is something for another kind of project, outside of Wikipedia. BD2412 T 21:46, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The Player (2004 TV series)

The Player (2004 TV series) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Only one source found. Deprodded without comment Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:07, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:07, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Two sources cited in article are sufficient enough to pass
  WP:GNG at the very least. In addition, PROD was removed with comment "PROD removed. Added citation, send to AfD", not "Deprodded without comment" as stated above. DonaldD23 talk to me 21:59, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

  The Lansing State Journal piece is a press release. Ten Pound Hammer • ⁽What did I screw up now?) 22:04, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Was article writen by Tanya Barrientos from KRT News Service. WikiVirusC^(talk) 22:30, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Again, not a press release. Press releases are made by the makers/distributors of the film, not independent writers. DonaldD23 talk to me 22:33, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep I added in the
  WP:GNG passes. WikiVirusC^(talk) 22:30, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

  Reality TV Blurred is a fan site. No way is that reliable. Ten Pound Hammer • ⁽What did I screw up now?) 22:36, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Please read what I wrote, please.... I said from them I found those other reliable sources(-NYP). Who cares about reliability of realityblurred, they mentioned 3 different

  WP:RS and I looked for those articles and posted what I could find. WikiVirusC^(talk) 22:39, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply

  ]

  I can't access NewsBank. Seems like all the sources you found are just routine run-of-the-mill churnalism slobbering over a new show because someone paid them to slobber over it. Ten Pound Hammer • ⁽What did I screw up now?) 22:46, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Where is your proof that these are paid promotions? Provide facts to support these statements. DonaldD23 talk to me 22:50, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  That they're gushy, overly positive pieces churned out by a press company is all the proof I need. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 22:58, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Purely your opinion. No different than conservatives in the US saying CNN isn't true and liberals in the US saying FOX News isn't true. DonaldD23 talk to me 23:10, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  You can't just dismiss sources because you find them to be too positive.

  matt91486 (talk) 14:22, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply

  ]

• "The Player" isn't merely unscripted; it's virtually unwatchable. Hollywood Reporter
• What "The Player" represents, I'm sorry to say, is one more clog in the current prime-time TV cesspool. New York Daily News
• Hate nearly everything about this ridiculous waste of time. Even if you can't quite care enough to despise it, there's so much to dislike about UPN's leap into... Chicago Sun-Times
• LACTOSE-intolerance warning: "The Player," UPN's new reality show, is so cheesy that all you need is macaroni for a complete dinner. New York Post

Hardly overly positive. WikiVirusC^(talk) 11:10, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - sources provided are sufficient for GNG.
  matt91486 (talk) 14:22, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

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Return to Spain of Juan Carlos I in 2022

Return to Spain of Juan Carlos I in 2022 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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I don't think that this specific incident deserves its own page, as it centers on events arguably less notable than those already on Juan Carlos I. Accordingly, I propose either a delete or a merge. Iseult ^Δx parlez moi 20:59, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Iseult ^Δx parlez moi 20:59, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Spain-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 21:04, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Consensus is sourcing is sufficient to counter 1E concerns, regardless of whether that should apply in Oulson's case or not. Star Mississippi 02:23, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Death of Chad Oulson

Death of Chad Oulson (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Completly generic and mediocre. Fails

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 21:22, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• im on the road, but this is one of the more notorious shootings of the decade. There will be literally hundreds if not thousands of sources. If this is still out here later, I’ll post a few.Jacona (talk) 22:04, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Speedy Keep There are many, many sources available, I'll give you three for now. There is in-depth
  WP:GNG, and it does so resoundingly. Jacona (talk) 23:38, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

Try not to use the

WP:BLP1E. He was not notable beforehand nor was the shooter. scope_creep^Talk 08:41, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply

]

WP:GNG however, does apply, and the article meets it. Jacona (talk) 12:22, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply

]

Why does everybody always roll that out. That applies here. Everything comes from that event. All the news. scope_creep^Talk 16:52, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You quote BLP1E in one breath and deny it in the next.

WP:BLP1E states "WP:BLP1E should be applied only to biographies of living people", so that argument has zero application here. We have many articles, such as Murder of Ahmaud Arbery, Death of Caylee Anthony, Murder of Botham Jean that stem from one event in which a persons life was ended and in each of these case sthe article is about the event, not the person. That is exactly the case here. Jacona (talk) 21:46, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply

]

They are likely non-notable and will take a look at them. They are daily occurences in the United States. Both of the people were involved in this event, were non-notable before. All the coverage comes the event making it a classic

WP:BLP1E. Wikipedia is filling with crime reports that are generic and mediocre to the extreme. scope_creep^Talk 22:05, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply

]

1. https://www.tampabay.com/news/2022/02/26/after-acquittal-curtis-reeves-renews-freedom-chad-oulsons-widow-grieves-anew/
2. https://abc13.com/curtis-reeves-florida-movie-theater-shooting-chad-oulson-popcorn/11635640/
3. https://globalnews.ca/news/3303073/florida-theatre-texting-murder/
4. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/29/florida-stand-your-ground-defense-movie-theater-shooting

It seems like exactly the type of event that should be included as per

• Comment Just today, there was a 12 paragraph article in the Tampa Bay Times, an article at yahoo, abc, and plenty more about the Oulson family foundation. The coverage is widespread and ongoing. Jacona (talk) 11:30, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• I added a few words to the article, and lots of sources, providing easy material for someone who would like to expand it, not that it's hard, since there are literally tens of thousands of sources available online. Jacona (talk) 14:01, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Applying the guideline to my previous discussion, (plus mention of book cites). In addition, there are a couple of book cites, including a multi-page discussion in a textbook The American System of Criminal Justice. This demonstrates notability as per the inclusion criteria the appropriate guideline, which looks for lasting effects (a college textbook certainly does). The guideline also prefers a wide geographical scope (there is local, national, and international coverage), depth, duration, and diversity of coverage (this has front-page news articles galore, book sections, etc over a course of over 8 years). In response to the nominators invoking of one event, the guideline specifically addresses one event as follows "People known only in connection with one event should generally not have an article written about them. If the event is notable, then an article usually should be written about the event instead." That's exactly what has been done here. Jacona (talk) 14:38, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That is all due to the foundation that has been lauched this week and they were looking for publicity. All of it comes from one event. scope_creep^Talk 10:28, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Every "Death of..." article is about one event. That's not a reason to delete.

WP:EVENTCRIT

directs us to consider:

1. WP:LASTING
   did the event lead to something else? I think that's not 100% clear yet, but the court case appeal seems to be president setting, so it has that potential and absolutely significantly more likely here than the way you described it in the nomination "Completly generic"
2. WP:GEOSCOPE
   is coverage was local or not. It was international, so very notable by criterion #2
3. WP:INDEPTH
   is the coverage deep. It absolutely is.
4. WP:PERSISTENCE
   does the coverage continue for time. We're years into this, it absolutely meets this criterion.
5. WP:DIVERSE
   is there a range of sources, there absolutely is.

There are 5 variables to consider in deciding if an event is notable and this event utterly meets 4 of them and maybe meets the fifth.

I sometimes argue marginal cases at AfD, but this one is really very clearly meeting the criteria. CT55555 (talk) 14:30, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You seem to keep changing your argument. You posting a press-release on the launch of the foundation to prove a point, is the beyond the pale. You also seem to be confusing the families effort to keep event into the news , to bring some kind of meaning and memory to it, Hence the reason for the foundation, with Wikipedia policies around notability and need to report events.There is nothing here that is notable. The event as it happens is completely generic and mediocre. So far in the last year, I have seen 3 of these, so they are happening all the time. They are generic and so mediocre. If it goes to no consensus and that seems to be what your trying to do, without providing a cogent argument why this particular

WP:BLP1E event is notable and the policies, then any chance I get I with send it to afd and try and delete it. I see nothing special or unique about this that makes it standout. scope_creep^Talk 14:50, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply

]

Accusing me of acting "beyond the pale" was truly unexpected and I would be happy if you could withdraw that. I promise you that I'm acting in good faith, within normal ethical and moral boundaries, and consider my behaviour here to be within acceptable norms.

I don't think I've shared a press release. I shared links to four newspaper articles, but if I have shared a press release, please be specific where I did so.

I don't agree with your analysis about the family's efforts, what ever they are or are not doing it really not part of my thinking or argument here. I think the importance of the court case and the public interest in self defence law in USA is really what's driving years of international media attention. But I don't think the reasons behind this are important, things meet the general notability guidelines or they don't.

I think I have demonstrated clearly that this meets the general notability criteria and please note while participation in this discussion has been limited, everyone else other than yourself agrees to keep.

I don't understand your point about me trying to steer this towards no consensus. I'm arguing to keep. I think the argument for that is really clear.

I don't know what to say about your comments about planning to take this to AfD, when we're literally at AfD.

If we could continue this discussion with civility and without personal accusations, I would be welcome and will continue. If that is not possible for you, you might see silence from here from here. CT55555 (talk) 15:07, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment The text of BLP1E makes it clear it is irrelevant in this discussion but since an editor continues to refer to it, I feel it necessary to quote the policy in a greater length: "The significance of an event or the individual's role is indicated by how persistent the coverage is in reliable sources. It is important for editors to understand two clear differentiations of the people notable for only one event guideline (WP:BIO1E) when compared with this policy (WP:BLP1E): WP:BLP1E should be applied only to biographies of living people, or those who have recently died, and to biographies of low-profile individuals." It's been 8 years, so we should be looking at
  WP:BLP1E. Jacona (talk) 15:21, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Keep Per the points raised by editors above. --TylerBurden (talk) 15:23, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Question @User:scope_creep, is the three page section of a law textbook just routine coverage? Jacona (talk) 15:41, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - The case is a landmark trial. Tampa defense attorney Richard Escobar referred to the case as "the largest self-defense case ever in Florida". Janae Thomas, a Tampa-based attorney and former assistant state attorney for the 13th Judicial Circuit in Hillsborough County said "It's going to open the flood gates for these stand-your-ground cases because now we're going to say that people can go into public places, they can be armed, they can start a confrontation because that's what the evidence shows". Harvard University professor Caroline Light stated "This means more people with guns, seeing a certain right to use lethal aggression, and then say, after the fact, that they were in fear for their life". It is unique, in that Reeves felt he was in danger due to only popcorn being thrown in a very dark theatre, but that because of his age, that he felt threatened enough to shoot Oulson. --Jax 0677 (talk) 00:59, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment We're in
  WP:SNOWBALL keep territory at this point and I politely request that the nominator withdraw the AfD rather than labour this debate any longer. CT55555 (talk) 03:09, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's

talk page or in a deletion review

). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's

talk page or in a deletion review

). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Modussiccandi (talk) 11:33, 4 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Iliyan Kuzmanov

Iliyan Kuzmanov (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Non notable businessman and philanthropist who has won a non notable prize and opened a cafe in a railway station. Sources are mostly either not independent or not reliable (I’m not sure about “Telegram”). Mccapra (talk) 20:50, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and Europe. Mccapra (talk) 20:50, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors, Journalism, and Bulgaria. Shellwood (talk) 20:55, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Delete - Appears to be involved with small businesses, small support organizations, etc. Award mentioned is part of a purchased book review service. Nothing here to indicate
  WP:GNG is met. Tony Fox (arf!) 21:13, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

  Changed my opinion to strong delete - I'd tag for speedy if we weren't already here. I'll also note that the Bulgarian version was speedied in 2021 and is tagged with concerns for sourcing as well (according to Google Translate, at least). Tony Fox (arf!) 17:20, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  This is non sense guys! Iliyan is a super star in Bulgaria and London Uk, what is wrong with you, just check google! Probably some kids were playing with his page, but he is a Very Big One here! By the way he made a WOW in Turkey as well. Moreover he is helping Ukrainianes and is hated by the Russian propaganda machine. Why you dont check that! Marko Kralev (talk) 18:27, 24 May 2022 (UTC)— Marko Kralev (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

  илиян кузманов - Google Търсене

  He is a real political hero in our country that is tretened by Russia! Marko Kralev (talk) 18:28, 24 May 2022 (UTC)— Marko Kralev (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

  Check the Gogle in Turkey guys! He is very famous and good guy. He is anti- comunist in his bones, who do a lot of good! Marko Kralev (talk) 18:38, 24 May 2022 (UTC)— Marko Kralev (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

  Because of Turkey, the premiere he did there, the name he made there, his origine- he is hated by the Russian propaganda in Bulgaria! But he is loved by most people in Bulgaria! StoyanUbenov (talk) 19:06, 24 May 2022 (UTC)— StoyanUbenov (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

  The long hand of Putin... but he is very brave man! Marko Kralev (talk) 19:08, 24 May 2022 (UTC)— Marko Kralev (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

  One things concern me very much in this article. Why the guy who created the original mess is not here to provide explanations. It is very strange, because originally the page has nothing common with the Bulgarian Page. Even there are thousands of sources, the guy was using few fakes. It was very strange, and now is even more strange. It was looking as a joke with Iliyan, but now... And yes, what is the problem with the biggest medias in EU, owned by the US medias? DorraG (talk) 19:42, 24 May 2022 (UTC)— DorraG (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Hello, I do not know who made this article(it looks as anti- advertising by someone who does not like the author), but Iliyan Kuzmanov is the most famous Bulgarian writer and social enterpreneur in this moment! He is a social enterpreneur who is fighting coruption, human trafficing, domestic violence, gender aquality, and freedom of though, he is a real hero in Bulgaria! Please let me help improve this article. By accident I discover this mess, but deffinetly was made by someone who does not like the writer. He is victimise by the Russian propaganda in Bulgaria, because of helping the LGDP comunity and Ukrainian refugees. I am his huge fan, and I willingly help to corect the injustice. Here is his Bulgarian Wikipedia Page:

Илиян Кузманов – Уикипедия (wikipedia.org)

https://bg.wikipedia.org/ StoyanUbenov (talk) 13:31, 24 May 2022 (UTC)— StoyanUbenov (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

comment - The edit you have done on the article has actually worsened its condition. There are some serious problems with sourcing; let's look at a few that really stand out (the English ones; my Bulgarian is nonexistent). Ref 2 is some sort of blog, no byline, and very glowing, almost as if self-written. 11 is a fake newspaper - one of those ones that pretends to be something big and sells coverage; the editor they list doesn't appear to exist. 26 is a press release. 44... honestly, what the hell. FilmDaily appears to be trash, probably paid service; coverage of the award is by fake sites that are certainly paid services (and they all misspell Hemingway). 45 is also almost certainly paid - it is exactly the same structure as the coverage of the FilmDaily awards, and has similar wording. All in all, this is almost certainly an attempt to buy notability for this subject. Thank you, though, for providing more evidence for us to consider. Tony Fox (arf!) 17:08, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Tony, I did a 100% translate of the Buglarian wiki. And was using all the sources from there. I will provide all the national medias that are missing in the bulgarian article. The guy was on and on on tv and newspapers, I know his work from my hometown. Take into account that Bulgaria is with one of the worst corruption ratios, and people like this one are like rare gems here.... StoyanUbenov (talk) 17:56, 24 May 2022 (UTC)— StoyanUbenov (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

https://bnt.bg/news/iliyan-kuzmanov-parviyat-balgarin-v-klasaciyata-top-20-na-amazon-s-knigata-si-ako-sreshtnesh-buda-ubiy-go-razshirena-versiya-v313346-302151news.html

https://bntnews.bg/news/sreshta-s-balgarskiya-pisatel-dostignal-top-20-po-prodazhbi-na-amazon-1179647news.html

https://bnr.bg/play/post/101577367/ilian-kuzmanov

https://bnr.radio/horizont/post/101585075/ilia-kuzmanov-pomaga-na-jeni-jertvi-na-nasilie

https://nova.bg/news/view/2022/01/29/354124/%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9-%D0%B5-%D0%B1%D1%8A%D0%BB%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%8A%D1%82-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BB-amazon/

https://www.btv.bg/shows/predi-obed/videos/koj-e-naj-seksapilnijat-pisatel-v-sveta.html StoyanUbenov (talk) 18:00, 24 May 2022 (UTC)— StoyanUbenov (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

These are National Tv Networks and National Radio Stations. Will replace the weak sources. And will be happy for assistance. I donn't know who did the original page, but was a real mess. The guy is helping thousends of people. StoyanUbenov (talk) 18:03, 24 May 2022 (UTC)— StoyanUbenov (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Can you provide any reference that explains the Top 20 Amazon rank? Because he's currently in the mid-118,000s on Kindle (it's only available as an e-book, looks like), but is higher in a few of the e-book subgenres. Every article where it's mentioned only says "Top 20" but doesn't say what top 20. Also, I'm still very concerned that most of the English coverage of the subject is in paid-placement sources. Tony Fox (arf!) 18:49, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tony, in the sources is BNT, NTV and BTV- the 3 major National Networks in Bulgaria. There is Tv Evropa, that is Euronews now, the major EU tv network, with around 300 milions subscribers. In the sources mentioned here is BTA- Bulgarian Telegraph Agency, the bigest Balcan Info Network, milions of people around the world are using it, Reuters is major partner. BNR and Darik are the bigest radio networks around. All of them speaks about it. Maybe they all did fact checks or checked with Amazon, what do you think? These are the bigest and most influential medias, most owned by major Western companies. Or maybe you are well informed than all them. I really do not understand what is happening here, really bizare issue. Moreover to not believe to all these medias and to be so determinent in blaming someone. Really no words! Check Google Bulgaria, check Google Turkey- 10 ot Thousends sources, about a real hero, and here someone is trying to make a joke from him. StoyanUbenov (talk) 19:39, 24 May 2022 (UTC)— StoyanUbenov (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

That's all great, but absolutely none of the sources I've seen have mentioned the actual metric being measured. They all say "Top 20 on Amazon." His book is currently #1,119,423 in the Kindle Store; to go from top 15 to that in the space of several months is a pretty big fall, so I can only assume that it made the top 20 in one of the subcategories; I know that on one viewing of the page it was #37 in 'teen philosophy e-books' or somesuch. This is the challenge - we have extraordinary claims being made, but the sourcing is very concerning, simply because there are a lot of obviously paid-for articles in the English sphere. I again can't speak to Bulgarian sources, but I am going to encourage more eyes to review them. Tony Fox (arf!) 20:15, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tony, you assume one of the sources was crap, the other probably was paid... Now you assume that all the rest of the medias are biassed, even Euronews and Reuters. I am speachless man. By the way, Euronews, NTV and BTV said, yes 15 in Top 20, that means your Bulgarian or Russian is preaty good, congratulations!

And you dont mention the print medias, newspapers in Bulgaria, Macedonia, Turkey, 45, 000 results with the name Илиян Кузманов, probably you assumed that all is paid? The guy probably is a richer than Musk to make such PR. And helping so many people, thousend of reffugees, women victims of traffic, prisons, homeless.... and you assume that all that is paid and not real? Increadible assumptions you are making! But again, congratulations for your Russian or Bulgarian language skills, initially you didnt have at all! StoyanUbenov (talk) 20:54, 24 May 2022 (UTC)— StoyanUbenov (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

feel free. Tony Fox (arf!) 22:00, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply

]

Tony Fox, if you assume good faith, you have to take into account few things, but you are really determined to not:

1. There is a protocol for existing page translations- and the page was translated(after the effort of someone unknown to make harm to one of the famoust bulgarian social enterpreneurs and writers).

2. 45, 000 results in Google about the name Илиян Кузманов, among them some of the bigest medias in EU and Turkey

3. From those 45, 000 sources, strangely, someone choose few, not very credible, 5 or 6 to be honest. Strangley why targeted them. And you make assumptions, that they are paid. But how about the rest 44, 995?

4. You point few things, that in your opinion, but not in the opinion for example of Euronews and Reuters, with more than a billion readers is fact checked information. And how about all the rest- the guy on first place is famous with his good deeds to society. Even his book in Bulgaria is for free, and copyright claims, because of the Pandemic and Economic Crisis now? He did whay more to change my society for good. And Wikipedia core is that?

5. Why no wonder, who made the original article, and why was made in such a way? Moreover, for example the Russian propaganda that is going around, and the trouble Iliyan had with Russian mafia, for example in London Uk(there are many articles about that). Even his second book is inspired by a russian prostitute he felt in love, and he got in a lot of problems. Why no questions about that? Because in my opinion, it was very strange. StoyanUbenov (talk) 04:55, 25 May 2022 (UTC)— StoyanUbenov (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

From the looks of the article history, the article was created by someone who brought it over from .bg, but edited down. I don't know why it's being called problematic, it looks pretty similar to what's there now, just shorter.

As for the rest of your comments, my opinion stands: versions of this article have included references to paid marketing material, which, in my opinion, calls into question other sourcing; and the subject in question does not meet

notability guidelines for authors. It is for other editors to take my comments, your comments, and the article as a whole and make their own decisions as to the suitability of this article for this encyclopedia. Tony Fox (arf!) 05:39, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply

]

I hope that someone from the editors to take into the account, and look deeper the original article that was created by someone who disappeared from his "good work" according to Tony Fox. I hope also in assume good faith, someone will look all comments, from the first to the last of Tony Fox, who is doubting everything, but not the person who created the original. How from thousands and thousands different sources about a person with hundreds good deeds, someone took few not very credible sources, and created this whole issue. I hope that the most important in Wiki community is about our contribution to the society, and started with the idea about contributing society. And in this good spirit, lets be honest. DorraG (talk) 06:49, 25 May 2022 (UTC)— DorraG (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Please, it is an urban myth about the Russian escort and that he felt in love! The problems came when he destroyed a Russian human traffic network in Bulgaria.

Проектът "Мария": Жителите на Калугерово получиха сертификат... (marica.bg)

Сама, без багаж и в кръв... Мистериозната Мария в с. Калугерово - Последни Новини от DNES.BG

Окървавена латвийка се появи мистериозно в Калугерово, вероятно е жертва на трафик на хора - Общество (offnews.bg)

It was one very big case, there are a lot of info about it in the Polish and Latvian medias as well. Marko Kralev (talk) 06:17, 25 May 2022 (UTC)— Marko Kralev (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

That is really great. From everything was paid, we went to what exactly place in Amazon,... and questionig the honesty of such big medias...by the way BTV was part of FOX Network, and NTV now is a part of UK group, that owns medias in many countries around the globe.

And why you don't ask the guy who created that nonsense initially? Why was created such "funny" article about such controversial figure now in Bulgaria? Who is targeted by the Russian propaganda. Iliyan is a journalist, writing about very interesting topics. Maybe really someone has to question the author of the article. Marko Kralev (talk) 21:03, 24 May 2022 (UTC)— Marko Kralev (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Guys, I don't know what is happening here, but Iliyan Kuzmanov is the most famous Bulgarian author now and a person who fight corruption and help a lot of people. You could check google:

https://www.google.bg/search?q=%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%8F%D0%BD+%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%B7%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2&sxsrf=ALiCzsbtCkN7656ZnHY47awuw965j970yw%3A1653415950411&source=hp&ei=DiCNYqz2FfaXxc8Pp9KP0AI&iflsig=AJiK0e8AAAAAYo0uHvTH_SMyUCtDwmVIc2zBNmVFpSzr&oq=%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%8F%D0%BD+&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYADIECCMQJzIECCMQJzIECCMQJzIFCC4QywEyBQgAEMsBMggILhDUAhDLATIFCC4QywEyCAguENQCEMsBMgUIABDLATIFCAAQywE6BwgjEOoCECc6BQguEJECOgUIABCRAjoFCAAQgAQ6CwguEIAEEMcBEKMCOggILhDUAhCRAjoLCC4QgAQQxwEQrwE6CAguEIAEENQCOgUILhCABDoJCC4QgAQQChAqOgcILhCABBAKOgcIABCABBAKOgcIIxCxAhAnOgcILhAKEMsBOgcIABAKEMsBOgoILhDUAhAKEMsBOgQILhAnUIAMWKI7YL1HaAdwAHgAgAHFAYgB0QySAQQxLjExmAEAoAEBsAEK&sclient=gws-wiz DorraG (talk) 18:17, 24 May 2022 (UTC)— DorraG (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Hello everyone, I also discovered this article by chance. Iliyan is my favorite journalist and writer in Bulgaria. He is big social entrepreneur, person with heart and soul who is a real life changer for a lot of people. Please, allow me to help enhance the article that looks really unprofessional! DorraG (talk) 14:57, 24 May 2022 (UTC)— DorraG (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

I would like to summarise what I saw in this article.

1. It was made not well sourced very purposeful article by someone, who just manipulate the info, and even did not defend what he did. The purpose was clear to diminish the social role of Iliyan Kuzmanov, or even blackmail him with such biased information and compromised sourced(5 or 6), nevertheless that there are thousands of sources, some of which are all major Bulgarian medias, and some of the big EU medias. But obviously the purpose of the author was not in the good faith and good intentions of Wikipedia.

2. Advocates of the author work- please read all the comments, and all the arguments. Please also read, how Iliyan Kuzmanov lost his social business in London, why, the involvement of the Russian Mafia and ect. I will include a lot of sources at the end. The involvement of Iliyan in many criminal cases in Bulgaria, his ability to solve and help women victims of human trafficking, and always the Russian lead. Please take into account his last causes, his help to Ukrainian immigrants, his talks about the corruption in Bulgarian. And please ask the question, why someone was victimised, and the info about him was biased purposefully even there are so many things he did for the society- starting from Afghanistan, Ukraine, Bulgaria, UK, and even finishing in Canada. Let’s be honest with ourselves.

3. About Iliyan. I will start from (even in Canada he was working as a social worker, and was part of the municipal elections in Montreal) UK. It was not a coffee shop, it was a cultural hub very important for us, Bulgarians, even our major educational institution put him at a major research, part of the book “Bulgarian cultural heritage in migration.”- even that I think is enough. But I will continue, the place was a library, few thousand books, different languages. The place was helping people, in different way. The place was different from anything else.

a. https://www.dnevnik.bg/na_put/2017/02/13/2915743_bulgarin_upravliava_edno_ot_nai-dobrite_kafeneta_v/

b. http://www.businessnews.bg/predpriemach/5101-blgarsko-kafene-e-1-v-london.html

c. https://telemedia.bg/bg/regioni/pazardjik/otneha-s-izmama-kafeneto-na-pazardjiklija-v-london

d. https://www.marica.bg/region/pazardjik/otneha-legendarnoto-kafe-biblioteka-na-iliqn-kuzmanov

e. There are thousands more sources about his work in London

Or you can watch 30 min with Bulgarian Oprah from London:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRr5PjmMwjk

Bulgaria and his work with the minorities. I just want to mention, that Iliyan Kuzmanov is the only Bulgarian social entrepreneur who fully is financing his work, 100%, only through his business. No one is doing that in Bulgaria, that is Number One in Corruption in EU, stealing EU founds. A problem Iliyan always say!

https://darik.bg/talantlivi-romcheta-ste-risuvat-v-novo-art-prostranstvo-v-pazardzik

https://telemedia.bg/bg/regioni/lesichovo/biznesmen-i-symishlenici-podpomognaha-pensionirani-uchiteli

https://www.bta.bg/bg/voices-for-europe/10715-Sotsialniyat-predpriemach-e-krastoska-mezhdu-sotsialen-rabotnik-i-biznesmen-smy

https://www.marica.bg/region/pazardjik/proektat-mariq-vdahnovi-art-konkurs

https://glednatochka.com/2022/02/15/%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B0-%D0%BD%D1%8F%D0%BC%D0%B0-%D0%B4%D0%B0-%D0%B1%D1%8A%D0%B4%D0%B5-%D1%81%D1%8A%D1%89%D0%B0/

https://www.desant.net/show-news/55144

He was helping many people during the pandemic in Bulgaria. Helping as well NHS, and everything with his own money, showing that society with active citizens is possible, less Russian style government, and more free business.

https://pzdnes.com/2020/04/21/%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%8F%D0%BD-%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%B7%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B0-%D1%80%D1%8A%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D1%85%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%BD/

https://www.marica.bg/region/pazardjik/geroite-ot-speshna-pomosht-v-pazardjik-edna-kniga-i-edin-skromen-podarak

https://www.marica.bg/region/pazardjik/netradicionno-predstavlenie-v-pazardjik

https://www.btv.bg/shows/predi-obed/videos/sled-uspeshen-biznes-v-london-ilijan-kuzmanov-izbira-da-se-pribere-v-pazardzhik.html

https://darik.bg/talantlivi-romcheta-ste-risuvat-v-novo-art-prostranstvo-v-pazardzik

Even his books are social provocation. Iliyan many times said that is a big fan of Banksy, and art is for free. His first book for Christmas was given for free to the Bulgarian public. And he asked more artists and writers to join him, followed by none. His book was generating money for big literature prize, just to say “people, stop stealing money from the budget”. All that were provocation a la Banksy, by one huge admire of him… DorraG (talk) 06:45, 28 May 2022 (UTC)— DorraG (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

• Strong delete No secondary coverage attesting notability; Google results are positively choked with rambling paid-for content meant to resemble newspaper articles. The number of new editors who have "coincidentally" stumbled onto this debate to spam links isn't a great sign either. --MasqueDesRonces (talk) 17:04, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Are you serious? I can not understand one thing- how you can pay for all that content? 45, 000 results? All national TV networks, Radios, News Agencies that are part of Euronews and Reuters, tons of newspapers... And someone made an article taking 4/5 presumebley paid articles, because I can find press releases. Even I found few hundred press releases made probabley by the publishing company of the writer, or by himself. And you blindley do not take that into account.

  Moreover, the writing is probabley 10% of the article, he is a social enterpreneur who helped thousend of people. About that there are again tons of article. And you did not care about these 90% at all.

  You do not take into account, that someone just made a very controversial original article, completley different than the original Bulgarian. If someone wanted to make something positive, the easiest way was to do translation, and there was no hustle here. But someone made an original English language article, with few controversial articles. And you do not ask yourself why? You do not find that strange? You do not find strange the coments for strong delete after, even there was 100% translation, and all the sources where augmanted?

  It is very strange? And everything is based on presumtions? Doubts? Marko Kralev (talk) 14:46, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Do we believe in medias at all, or everything is paid by the gready capitalists and conspirecy in this world? Guys, we live in the ex comunist world, in the world where the Putins propaganda preaches exactly these manthras... Marko Kralev (talk) 14:50, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - I looked at the existing sources and agree that they are poor. I translated a few of the above sources and they are also poor. Neither the book, the bistro or his foundation have received sufficient media coverage to demonstrate notability. The book has been discussed above as a top 20 Amazon seller, but there are no sources for this besides primary sources likely supplied by the subject. It was self-published by his foundation. His activism suggests that he's a good person, but the sources don't meet the threshold we require to demonstrate notability. Fails
  WP:GNG. TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:53, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

  https://bnt.bg/

  https://www.btv.bg/

  https://nova.bg/

  https://www.euronews.com/

  https://www.bta.bg/

  https://bnr.bg/

  Some of the sources used....

  Please someone from the moderators to tell me that all these are fake news sources! This is ridiculas! StoyanUbenov (talk) 06:52, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  About Ezo Bistro and the work of Iliyan Kuzmanov Bulgaria with Art Angel Foundation 13, 000 sources in Google, and in London for the Bulgarian comunity- 1000 hits, maybe that is unsofficent. More than an hour and half TV time, half hour BBC.... Speachless about how objective we are.... But Putin' propaganda and trols are almighty!.... Total in Google 45, 000- not credible paid sources... Anti Comunist Forever!

  https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82+%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%BB+%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%8F%D0%BD+%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%B7%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2

  https://www.google.com/search?q=%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%BE+%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE+%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%8F%D0%BD+%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%B7%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2&client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=ALiCzsb6TERd1UBDVfXSkHDM-hEb-q_nKw%3A1654152809025&ei=aV6YYpaMAYWWxc8Pncmn8Aw&oq=%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%BE+%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE+%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%8F%D0%BD+%D0%BA%D1%83&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYADIFCCEQoAE6BggAEB4QFjoICAAQHhAWEApKBAhBGAFKBAhGGABQHVidEWDvHGgBcAB4AIABrgGIAfsHkgEDNC41mAEAoAEBwAEB&sclient=gws-wiz StoyanUbenov (talk) 06:58, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - this is a hot mess. Cosigning on most of what's been written above - poor sourcing, misleading "award" from paid review service, no indication of
  WP:GNG, and the major red flag of the folks dropping link spam. Paradoxsociety 08:14, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

  It is total bias here! Totaly not objective, and all is misleading. Paradoxsociety- ufcorse you can say that all is fake, paid, ect. But in Wikipedia, is there any objectiveness? So many arguments, about all sources, and someone just pop up and say false, delete, paid, fake...?

  By the way:

  https://readersfavorite.com/

  Cost $50 to participate, iliyan kuzmanov is a finalist. And just browse around, all book prizes, even pulicer and noble prize you have some fees to be paid to participate. The only free, are in Russia, North Korea, and some other similar states, all the rest is even a bit paid. Just to avoid all the spam around. Guys, show some honesty! Marko Kralev (talk) 09:17, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete I agree. scope_creep^Talk 11:18, 3 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Agree with the rest? Or agree with the objective facts? Marko Kralev (talk) 15:17, 3 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  All of it There is no doubt he is a compassionate and sensitive man but evidence for inclusion of an article on WP isn't here. I looked at the first block of references which were translated with the new Firefox offline translator which works remarkably well, on a ref per ref basis. They are mixture of profiles, a dody looked architecture magazine, interviews, front page of newspaper and lots of passing mentions and other kinds of odd content. None of it salient. While he has written a book and could potentially pass

  WP:NAUTHOR, I didn't find a critical reviews of the books. Two decen reviews would do it. The refs that are there are primary, interview, but not really secondary source. The best best bet for authors is in this situation is book reviews, from a real magazine, not mickey mouse stuff, not good reads or some review site. Real critical analysis. Hope that helps. scope_creep^Talk 10:56, 4 June 2022 (UTC)[reply

  ]

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Rocky Lynch (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination

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Fails

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Colorado. Shellwood (talk) 20:56, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: pretty much all of the content was copied from Ross Lynch, R5 (band), and The Driver Era.— Diannaa (talk) 22:40, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Diannaa: A redirect would be the best approach. scope_creep^Talk 23:25, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think so too. Which article though? he was in two bands. Probably The Driver Era - that is his current band.— Diannaa (talk) 23:27, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

He is mentioned in the lede and several times in the body, so good target. I can close this as Nomination Withdrawn scope_creep^Talk 23:32, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Draftify to allow for continued improvement. Star Mississippi 02:24, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dunamis International Gospel Center

Dunamis International Gospel Center (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Massively refbombed article about a minor denomination. Strip out the puff and encyclopaedic language and we’re left with a scant history propped by unreliable sources. Mccapra (talk) 20:44, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Christianity and Africa. Mccapra (talk) 20:44, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Mccapra This article is still going to be worked on. But in the main time, It should be removed from articles for deletion. This denomination is a major one in Nigeria and it should be on Wikipedia, it has a strong online presence but lacks enough press release for citation because Nigeria is a developing country with small blogs and that shouldn't be the reason this major denomination should be deleted. Thanks. Oklo Adiga (talk) 09:40, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Probably delete unless greatly improved. Possibly draftify -- Certainly remove advertising puff. Currently what I see is about one church ('Center') in Nigeria with three branch churches elsewhere. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:17, 29 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ✗plicit 23:49, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alan Barrows

Alan Barrows (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and New York. Shellwood (talk) 20:23, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete as per nom. Could be merged into Civilian Warfare Gallery, maybe. Ari T. Benchaim (talk) 01:21, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. SIGCOV is the major issue. Many of the sources currently in the article are passing mentions of the "so-and-so took a picture of him" or "he was the co-director/curator of this" variety. Further source searches on Newspapers.com and OpenLibrary yielded more "opened a gallery with Dean Savard" and "gallery now closing" passing mentions. I don't think there's anything to be merged to the gallery article: the content that's unsourced at Civilian Warfare Gallery is similarly unsourced in the Barrow article (precise locations of the gallery, "launch the careers ...").Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 12:44, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Consensus is sourcing is of insufficient quality. If someone wants to actively work on this in draft, I'm happy to provide it without going through REFUND. Star Mississippi 02:26, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Chobanian

Michael Chobanian (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Covert advertising article. Fails

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople, Cryptocurrency, and Ukraine. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:56, 16 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Agree with nom, seems like an advertorial. Oaktree b (talk) 19:18, 16 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep the article has been translated from Ukrainian Wikipedia. There are enough sources with not just short mentions, but deep reportage: Bloomberg, New York Times, Wall Steer Journal and a bunch of serious independent Ukrainian media sources. Easily passes WP:GNG as he is the couuntry's and slightly Eastern European leader in his sphere. Also, his fundraising efforts amidst Russian invasion of Ukraine are important and well covered too. Petrushchak ivan (talk) 11:43, 17 May 2022 (UTC).[reply]

• Comment This article was a clear crypto-promotion goner the first time it was deleted some years back, but I'm wondering if the recent Ukraine fundraising coverage might not be sufficient for a Keep this time round. With a caveat that a fair few of the cited sources are still from the cryptosphere echo chamber and should be downweighted accordingly. user:Elmidae User talk:Elmidae --11:56, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the below preempts my own slower trawl through the sources. Looks like a general lack of substance, so no dice. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 12:25, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Elmidae I think vice versa. I've added numerous new sources into the article and made it more substantial. the crypto fundraising made the by the article's subject is unprecedented. Senate Banking Committee hearing made by Chobanian and later outcomes are also an interesting integrap part of this article. IgorTurzh (talk) 15:02, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete as per nom.
  WP:SIGCOV is not established. Ari T. Benchaim (talk) 00:27, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• The sources are rank and typical of a paid for article on non-notable businessman, PR, primary interviews, passing mentions and some advertising. We will go through them:

Ref 1 Ukraine’s Crypto Banker Describes How War Is Changing His Life Interview, primary.

Reliable:Yes, Signifcant:Yes, Independent:No

Ref 2 The crypto capital of the world An interiew in part. Mostly covers crypto in ukraine, contrasts in with Poland.

Reliable:Yes, Signifcant:Yes, Independent:No

Ref 3 How Crypto Became Part of the War Michael Chobanian, the founder of the largest crypto exchange fund in Ukraine, explains how his company is soliciting donations for the Ukrainian war effort. Interview.

Reliable:Yes, Signifcant:Yes, Independent:No

Ref 4 Currency of last resort Chobanian — recently profiled by Bloomberg as “taking up Bitcoin instead of taking up rifles” — is the founder of Kuna, the cryptocurrency exchange which helped start Gleb Naumenko’s Bitcoin career. Interview. Primary.

Reliable:No, Signifcant:Yes, Independent:No

Ref 5 Американские криптобиржи Gemini, Bitstamp, Bittrex и bitFlyer объявили о создании саморегулируемой организации по цифровым товарам, таким как криптовалюты, сообщил Business Insider 20 августа. Press-release

Reliable:No, Signifcant:No, Independent:No

Ref 6 Mykhailo Chobanyan: The Ministry of Internal Affairs helped with Kuna PR, and the National Bank provided demand Ministry of Finance Press-release.

Reliable:No, Signifcant:No, Independent:No

Ref 7 Michael Chobanian is considered the “godfather of cryptocurrencies” in Ukraine. The son of a miner becomes one of the first Ukrainian Bitcoin miners, in 2015 he founded the country's first crypto exchange Kuna and set up the first Bitcoin ATM. PR.

Reliable:No, Signifcant:No, Independent:No

Ref 8 Ukraine crypto leader: 'Blockchain will help rebuild my country' Another interview.

Reliable:Yes, Signifcant:No, Independent:No

Ref 9 The road from public enemy to crypto warrior of Ukraine Fundraising page. Non-RS.

Reliable:No, Signifcant:No, Independent:No

Ref 10 Coindesk policy. Non-RS.

Reliable:No, Signifcant:No, Independent:No

Ref 11 IMF Warns That Crypto Mining Could Aid Countries Hit by Sanctions Passing mention.

Reliable:Yes, Signifcant:No, Independent:Yes

The references are very poor. The usual run-of-the-mill PR, press-release, reports on the company, interviews. scope_creep^Talk 12:07, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Basically the references are not so poor. I will not discuss the previous long comment, but will add my own view. Regarding general notability criteria the subject meets them. There are plenty of sources on various occasins, which are not PR or press-releases but with brief, medium or deep coverage.

1) This link works, as it's both reliable, independent and significant. Apart from the interview the journalist gives the reader weighted non-advertising information about Chobanian. This not routine analytical short story about the subject is enough to be a reliable source to be used on wiki. So, not advertising, but just neural coverage of the person with a small interivew on crypto topic. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-31/ukraine-s-crypto-banker-describes-how-war-is-changing-his-life

2) several podcasts on WSJ helped generate a lot of news even in Poland (it was strange to find them occasionally on reputable Polish news, e.g. https://polskieradio24.pl/42/3167/Artykul/2919584,rosjanie-transferuja-majatki-za-granice-za-pomoca-kryptowalut-to-sposob-na-obejscie-sankcji )

3) Concerning the general notability and impact of the subject, it's worth mentioning, that Chobanian's speech to the Senate Banking Committee, in which he described how Russians use cryptocurrencies to avoid sanctions, helped Republicans block Elizabeth Warren's law on sanctions for cryptocurrency exchanges working with Russia (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/18/business/dealbook/nickel-markets-trading.html ). According to Protocol media the specch also raised hopes that the crypto will be treated more positively in Capitol Hill (https://www.protocol.com/fintech/michael-chobanian-congress-crypto).

4) Here is an independent and in-depth study of the state of cryptocurrencies in the world and Ukraine. Chobanian here is both slightly interviewed but also analysed and covered by the New Yort Times journalists (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/14/business/crypto-ukraine.html). I disaggree, that the source is not independent. Everyone is welcome to read.

5) Forbes longread independent reliable and significant report/coverage on the "ideologist of the Ukrainian crypto-market" as Forbes claims Chobanian (https://forbes.ua/company/mikhail-chobanyan-ideolog-ukrainskogo-kriptovalyutnogo-rynka-i-sozdatel-birzhi-kuna-kak-on-gotovitsya-k-prikhodu-globalnykh-konkurentov-10082021-2229)

6) Brief, but not paid, reliable coverage of the subject at LA Times: https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-03-17/war-ukraine-kyiv-try-keep-life-going

7) An independent reliable news/story at Washington Post about Chobanian's efforts in fundraising money for Ukraine when Russia invaded https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/03/ukraine-cryptocurrency-donations

8) Medium coverage of the subject at Bloomberg (2018): https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-10/revolution-anarchy-and-bitcoin-in-ukraine. Here he is called: "the father of Kyiv’s crypto community". Also there are his comments, other comments about him and a reporter's comments on crypto and Chobanian's activities.

9) Brief but not passing mention at Fortune about Chobanian's crypto fund for Armed forces of Ukraine https://fortune.com/2022/04/08/crypto-ukraine-saving-lives-helping-oligarchs-sanctions-binance

So, the verdict is clear for me: Keep the article as the subject is notable, with quite history and media coverage and with a verified impact on crypto and not only sphere (biggest crypto fundraising in the world, first crypto exchange in CIS region, community building, etc). However it may be shortened, rewritten, fixed etc in order to meet all Wikipedia criteria and what WP is not. I agree that for English language auditory the translation of Ukrainian article may seem promotional, but it's more cultural differences and a zeitgeist (war with Russian and related stuff). --IgorTurzh (talk) 14:57, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment One independent source and bunch of non-independent sources do not help the notability, still leaning delete. "Reliable" for our needs here doesn't mean "good", it means we (the wiki community) consider them unbiased sources. Sources written by the subject of the article aren't neutral. Basically you have one "sort of" good source that hardly says anything and a bunch of "not useable" sources. We need more of the first kind. Oaktree b (talk) 20:39, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source 6 in particular only mentions him in passing. We need articles primarily about him, not written by him/independent from him and in notable publications as determined here: Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources. You still don't have enough to help keep the article. If you have more, please share them. Oaktree b (talk) 20:45, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per Nazi ideology this guy believes in. He support Nazi Armed forces of ukraine. he helps Nazi in ukraine and boasts about this fact in numerous articles. why so many write about him? he should be deleted as many other latent Nazi in ukraine. --Frische Frische (talk) 07:47, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That is not an argument for deletion. You don't need to be nice to have an article, only notable. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 12:14, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You are funny guy. Please stop disrupting wikipedia by spreading nonsense and Russian propaganda Petrushchak ivan (talk) 17:11, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

it's not propaganda, it's a neutral discussion. We consider all points. We have articles in wiki on everything from Grumpy Cat to horrible genocides. All get treated equally here. Oaktree b (talk) 16:53, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify I think I can rewrite and make it more suitable for wikipedia. Please put this article into a Draft space. I will search for new reliable sources. Petrushchak ivan (talk) 17:08, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, RL0919 (talk) 19:40, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Petrushchak ivan: You have already indicated for keep. scope_creep^Talk 20:03, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I changed my mind Petrushchak ivan (talk) 11:06, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 20:32, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dawn of the Dead in popular culture

Dawn of the Dead in popular culture (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Only two references. As an article, fails

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Film, Popular culture, and Lists. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 18:48, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Lots of uncited original research. There's also a ton of uncited stuff in the "in popular culture" section at the referenced article. ~XyNq^t_c 19:16, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, completely unsourced and unverified, no reason for this to exist. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 19:17, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete While the main article could probably use a section on the film's legacy and influence to replace its current terrible "In Popular Culture" section, nothing from this spinout would be useful in preserving for such a section, being a largely unsourced list of mostly non-notable trivia. Rorshacma (talk) 21:45, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: this is overwhelmingly
  WP:OR. Many of the references are questionably accurate because they depend on the interpretation of editors. One of the sources is a disclaimer saying that the fictional work is not based on Dawn of the Daed? If we removed all the poorly sourced material, there would be nothing left. Shooterwalker (talk) 22:45, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Delete. Agree with others, it should be deleted. Zakaria ښه راغلاست (talk) 22:14, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect and mention the most significant influences only on the film's page. Yuotort (talk) 21:50, 29 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to 2021 Islamic Solidarity Games#Sports. ✗plicit 13:24, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Taekwondo at the 2021 Islamic Solidarity Games

Taekwondo at the 2021 Islamic Solidarity Games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Empty tables; fails GNG. This nomination also includes Judo at the 2021 Islamic Solidarity Games and Karate at the 2021 Islamic Solidarity Games. These latter two have the same issue. Two other Afd's related to these three articles, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wrestling at the 2021 Islamic Solidarity Games and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Archery at the 2021 Islamic Solidarity Games have also cited the empty tables and GNG concern. All three articles here are just sitting around until the games begin in August 2022. Can be userified for the creator until there is more information to be added. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 17:57, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Events, Sports, Martial arts, and Turkey. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:02, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete all three. Fails WP:GNG. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:30, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete all none pass
  WP:GNG. This is exactly why people shouldn't speculatively create articles for specific events at sports tournaments, because they often get left as nothing. Joseph2302 (talk) 07:19, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Redirect all to 2021_Islamic_Solidarity_Games#Sports where a summary sentence can be included on the events. Star Mississippi 17:55, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect all to
  WP:TOOSOON for full articles as the games haven't taken place yet and there's no coverage for the individual events. Qwaiiplayer (talk) 15:58, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply
  ]

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The result was delete. ✗plicit 23:49, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Forthbox