Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2019 March 19

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The result was soft delete.

]

CheckUp & Choices

CheckUp & Choices (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Promotional article that fails

]

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The result was soft delete.

]

William Way LGBT Community Center

William Way LGBT Community Center (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Nonnotable community center

]

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The result was delete. King of 02:06, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Paula Goldman

Paula Goldman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Appears to fail

WP:GNG. Wikipedia cannot include every single corporate employee. — Stevey7788 (talk) 23:37, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

del - no evidence of notability. ]
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The result was soft delete.

]

Manitoba China Times

Manitoba China Times (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Unsourced since 2006. Fails

WP:GNG. The best source I could find was this entry in a database of minority media, but I couldn't find any other usable sources. – Teratix 23:35, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
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The result was delete. King of 02:05, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

MIMAL

MIMAL (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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I can't find any reliable source that actually uses this term. Delete as per

]

The links in the article seem reliable enough to pass muster. the folklore it originates in is established, and if the acronym is a learning device used in current education, that furthers the case. Keep, barring further developments. Scriblerian1 (talk) 23:37, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The two sources are acronymfinder.com and a blog. How are those acceptable sources?--]
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What sources cover this? Also, there's already a ]
Comment – My fault “Fat Finger”/typo……again apologies on MAMIL versus MIMAL…with regards to references a Google search does give a number of secondary sources, quality ahhhhh. That is way a Weak Keep. Thanks. ShoesssS Talk 18:50, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. King of 02:03, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hoffman L. Fuller

Hoffman L. Fuller (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Fails

WP:NPOL. Mayor of a small town. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 22:19, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

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The result was no consensus. King of 02:03, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

All-American Boys Chorus

All-American Boys Chorus (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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This article has been around for eight years, yet in that time nobody has managed to provide any independent references. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 21:46, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. King of 02:01, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Julio Roberto Peña

Julio Roberto Peña (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Filmmaker with questionable notability. I can't find anything he has done on here and I have not found that much about him outside of Wikipedia mirror sites. Wgolf (talk) 21:32, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Delete Wikipedia is not supposed to be an IMDb mirror.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:45, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: fails
    WP:CREATIVE. I've altered the article to note that he died in 2017, so this is no longer a BLP. The fact is that Mr. Peña only worked on three full-length films, Raíces de Piedra (1961), Sangre en los Jazmines (1974) and Mientras Arde el Fuego (1979) – everything else were short films or documentaries. That's not to dismiss him, but it means there is little in the way of in-depth sources about a person with such little output. The most detailed biography is on the website of Colombia's national film institute [2] but this probably doesn't constitute a reliable independent source. Most other sources are just passing mentions, and mostly regarding Raíces de Piedra [3], [4], [5] – it seems to me that it would be more worthwhile creating an article for the film than to keep this biography, which it appears will never be more than a very brief stub. The film, on the other hand, has more potential reliable sources, and is also notable for being banned by the military government of the time. Richard3120 (talk) 14:47, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
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The result was delete. King of 02:01, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Zombies Ate My Girlfriend

Zombies Ate My Girlfriend (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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South African metal band. Fails

WP:BAND with no songs nationally charting, no major awards (they have won minor awards at metal festivals, but these were not notable awards), their record label is a small non-notable/niche SA label, and no major tours/coverage. No entry in AllMusic or Sputnik Musik. Feels like their WP article is their most notable RS; it should be the other way around. Britishfinance (talk) 21:01, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

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  • Note - This article was PROD'ded some time ago but the PROD was removed after a few sources were added. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 14:21, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Their works have been reviewed several times by a site called Angry Metal Guy, as seen in the article's existing citations, but that may or may not be
    significant and reliable, and either way this is practically the only publication that has noticed them. Otherwise they can only be found in brief directory entries and occasionally mentioned as merely being present at a festival. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 14:25, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
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The result was Keep per

]

Quentin Lacour

Quentin Lacour (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Article about footballer who made 2 appearances in the fully-pro French second division several years ago. The online coverage of this player is routine (e.g., match reports, transfer announcements, or statistical database entries) except for a few blog posts and a

WP:GNG - as is the case here. Jogurney (talk) 20:33, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
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The result was keep. Regardless of the significance of the

]

Csilla Molnár

Csilla Molnár (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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This very odd article relies on a primary source... the subject’s website... and an obituary which confirms “the Miss Hungary competition is not connected with the Miss Universe pageant or any other international contest.” So she didn’t meet notability for pageant winners anyway. “Model commits suicide” isn’t notability. Trillfendi (talk) 20:17, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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If she hit the LA Times in 1986 I'm sure she had further international coverage too, not so easily findable from that far back. Have added her imdb record, which shows a documentary "About the first Hungarian Beauty Contest in 1985, that led to a tragic end" (yes, I know imdb isn't a RS). Anyone who reads Hungarian could certainly use the many sources listed at the end of her Hungarian wikipedia article to expand this one. PamD 10:19, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You know good and well that IMDb is not a reliable source on here. Trillfendi (talk) 11:33, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And I said so above. PamD 12:48, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And there's a film about the contest and her death, mentioned in many snippet-view sources in Google books and a couple of more accessible sources, which I've added. Certainly notable. PamD 13:28, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It’s still not worth keeping. She didn’t even compete in a notable pageant. The only thing you deem notable about her is her death. It doesn’t make sense. Non-notable people have a whole channel dedicated to documentaries about their deaths: Investigation Discovery. Trillfendi (talk) 13:36, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, she is the most well known beauty queen in Hungary, because of her fate and political situation in Socialist Hungary. Another sources: [12]. --Norden1990 (talk) 18:12, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The July 1986 Reuters/UPI wire stories on her were picked up by Houston Chronicle (12 July 1986, p 18), Chicago-Sun Times (13 July 1986, p 5), San Francisco Chronicle (12 July 1986, p 3), Chicago Tribune (12 July 1986, p 4), and Orlando Sentinel (12 July 1986, p A10), among others. So ]
Again I say, the LA Times source clearly stated that "The Miss Hungary competition is not connected with the Miss Universe pageant or any other international contest", therefore the pageant she won wasn't of any notability. Winning that contest clearly meant nothing besides driving her to take her own life. Apparently the only reasons she was "harassed" was because at that time in history, beauty pageants were frowned upon while the people suffered under communism. Certainly isn't worth taking up space here, especially with not having sources for her actual life besides her own "website". This isn't legacy.com Trillfendi (talk) 19:29, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like you meant to reply to some other comment, as nothing in your reply responds to my !vote rationale. ]
I only speak extremely basic Hungarian, but reading that article didn’t do anything to convince the idea that it’s worth “keeping”. It’s only “source” is also her website! Nothing out there actually goes in depth about her life independently. Routine coverage about her suicide at best. Trillfendi (talk) 17:34, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. There is enough new RS per
    WP:GNG. Clearly, she was notable in her time. At a WP:COMMONSENSE level, a winner of a 1985 major beauty pagent in a large country would have had material RS on her from national sources at that time; which is not easily EN-searchable online. Britishfinance (talk) 15:52, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
If people could read they would see that it clearly says the pageant was not part of the Miss Universe system or any other international contest. Trillfendi (talk) 16:06, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As I already pointed out, Miss Hungary is connected with international contests. -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 18:14, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I can (and did) read.
WP:HEY, the GNG issues have been at least technically addressed, imho. Britishfinance (talk) 16:18, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Even on 20 January 2019, on what would have been her 50th-birthday, Hungarian newspaper,
WP:SIGCOV) "Today it would be 50 years for the tragic queen of beauty, Csilla Molnár". Search via her image on google, and it leads you to lots of RS Hungarian newspaper coverage. Britishfinance (talk) 17:50, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Added a few more refs from mainstream Hungarian newspapers from 2015 to 2019 on her; she seems even today to be a notable subject for them. Britishfinance (talk) 21:00, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No, Huwiki is one thing, Commons another. But I think there's a "Fair use" rationale which can be used to add a copy of a non-free image of a dead person in some circs. PamD 23:48, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Ah okay, thanks for that, I was wondering why en-WP was defying my attemps to work out the :hu: link to it (and all permutations). thanks. Britishfinance (talk) 23:58, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. King of 01:56, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tournament shield

Tournament shield (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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No hits on this in google, and the article is grammatically garbled, so I can't tell whether the item is a piece of armor or a cloth flag/banner. Sbalfour (talk) 20:33, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. King of 01:56, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Democratic Freedom Caucus

Democratic Freedom Caucus (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats
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Article almost exclusively links to the organization’s own web page and does not appear to have any elected officers at any level of government. Toa Nidhiki05 19:15, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep – a lot of water has gone over the bridge since this topic was deleted in 2006. E.g., a check on references does provide enough
    Notability. (And I wonder how getting "elected officers" is a criteria for notability.) – S. Rich (talk) 20:09, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
Comment - Which sources are you referring to? Every source except for three go to the website for the organization, while the other three go to what appear to be internet blogs. There aren’t any notable members other than a former county councilman in St. Louis County, which is an extremely low bar. There’s very little to indicate this organization is even remotely notable. Toa Nidhiki05 20:46, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Delete Because I had never heard of it, and sourcing on page is almost all PRIMARY, I ran some searches. But very little came up, and most of the handful of hits were mere mentions. If someone can source it properly, feel free to ping me to reconsider.E.M.Gregory (talk) 22:57, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per above. Article mainly contains partisan sources. --
    talk) 00:40, 14 March 2019 (UTC); edited 05:30, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
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Keep I see no justifiable reason to delete this article. Just because most Americans have never heard of it doesn't mean we should delete the article. Most Americans have never heard of James K. Polk either ... Necropolis Hill (talk) 02:20, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Necropolis Hill: - this isn't actually a reason (or certainly no more than an ILIKEIT reason). Articles don't have a presumption of retention - !votes need to demonstrate a reason. Nosebagbear (talk) 20:45, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

‘’’NOTE’’’The guy proposing this for deletion is trying to remove references to Libertarian Democrats on Wikipedia. He previously deleted referenced material about them on the Party’s Wikipedia page and claimed that they aren’t notable.Necropolis Hill (talk) 14:06, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ––]
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The result was soft delete.

]

Soul Planet

Soul Planet (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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I don’t think this studio passed WP:ORG. Some of the people associated with were notable, but in itself it doesn’t seem to have been. Mccapra (talk) 19:45, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Telford Park School. King of 01:55, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Secret Diary of a School Teacher

The Secret Diary of a School Teacher (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats
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Does not appear to satisfy the notability guidelines. Subject is a magazine article (or series of articles? It's rather unclear) which was widely circulated and covered by several news outlets over a few weeks in 2004, but the coverage has since completely died down. No evidence of any

WP:LASTING significance. Paul_012 (talk) 19:25, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

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  • Merge to Telford Park School. Even if the Private Eye article is notable, that doesn't mean it should have a standalone article. I don't see much scope for expansion and it can be adequately coverd in the school's article where it is most directly relevant. PC78 (talk) 16:10, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. King of 01:54, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanwell

Cleanwell (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Cleanwell doesn't appear to be notable. The sources are overwhelmingly primary and a quick google search doesn't bring up a whole lot of independent coverage. The World's Signature (talk) 19:20, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. This debate suffered from low participation, hence no prejudice to a renomination in a month or so. Randykitty (talk) 19:01, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tanya Davis (artist)

Tanya Davis (artist) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Non-notable artist. Sourced by weak mentions. Promotional.

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  • The President of one of the largest - if not the largest - artists' organization in the USA is definately notable enough for inclusion in WP - especially since she has been representing us in the battles against the City of Alexandria's takeover of the Torpedo Factory! 64.26.99.248 (talk) 21:48, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Being president of something does not contribute to notability, unless people write about you. If you have links to articles in newspapers, post them here. ]
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My apologies as I'm not sure if I'm doing this right, but it seems to us that "Being the president of something does not contribute to notability, unless people write about you", with all due respect, seems to be a short-sighted and far-away viewpoint (Montreal?) which is not aware of the trails and tribulations that the Torpedo Factory artists have experienced over the last few years in their struggles versus the City of Alexandria - and instead of the articles "being about you" (in this case Ms. Davis and/or her successor), the articles and the debate have been about the issues - the multiple issues carried forward by Davis and others, but led by the Presidents of one of the largest artist's organization in the country. Perhaps the article on Davis should focus more attention on that aspect of her artistic presence? I do not mean to start an online argument or debate - but we do mean to try to enter that there are a lot of us here in Alexandria who think that she is indeed notable-enough for a Wiki article. 64.26.99.248 (talk) 20:55, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

We judge notability based on established sources, per ]
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  • Comment leaning to delete, but this is a bit of a mess. Tanya Davis probably doesn't meet
    WP:ARTIST, as the awards don't rise to the level expected here, and I couldn't verify the UMD Art Gallery collection. Torpedo Factory Artists' Association is not one of the largest artist associations in the country; it is a 281 member artist center in Alexandria Virginia. It might meet notability, as there are an abundance of passing references in the Washington Post, and other regional papers going back into the 1980s, along with a few in-depth articles, which mostly focus on the recent relationship between the Torpedo and the city of Alexandria. I'm pretty neutral about Davis, and probably would give weak support for an article about Torpedo. --Theredproject (talk) 13:02, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
Things I would want clarification on before !voting to keep:
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The result was redirect to Camellia Institute of Technology. King of 01:53, 27 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Camellia Institute of Engineering

Camellia Institute of Engineering (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats
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Unferenced, fails

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*Comment. The list of associated schools in the references for

Camellia Institute of Engineering, but rename to Camellia Institute of Engineering and Technology?BubbaJoe123456 (talk) 00:15, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

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The result was no consensus. Randykitty (talk) 18:56, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

List of awards and nominations received by Girlfriends Films

List of awards and nominations received by Girlfriends Films (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats
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Does not meet

WP:LISTN and excessive intricate detail cited to primary sources. K.e.coffman (talk) 01:17, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

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This is not a typical feature in ]
But this is a film-studio and not just an NCORP. We have lots of WP seperate list articles for film awards. Many of these awards have their own WP articles? I don't see the clear
WP:PAG that is been broken here; in fact, per my comments below, deleting this would violate WP:PAG? Britishfinance (talk) 11:12, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
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  • Comment. So because the list includes some -WP notable awards, amongst the many WP-notable awards, you would deleted the whole article? AfD is not clean up, and such issues should be discussed on the Talk Page. That is flawed logic and certainly not consistent with any ]
I still don't see how this fails
AVN Award (i.e. "Y"). If there are non WP-notable awards then it can be discussed on the Talk Page but it is not an AfD concern (e.g. AfD is not clean up); however I can point to thousands of WP List articles where not all the items in the list have WP articles. Britishfinance (talk) 11:07, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
AEBN Award
have a section in a WP article
AVN Award
have their own WP article
XBIZ Award
have their own WP article
XRCO Award
have their own WP article
NightMoves Award
have their own WP article
Either the WP-community should come out clearly and state that it does not want PORN-related articles, OR, the WP-community needs to clarify that despite the !votes, WP PORN-related articles that meet
WP:PAG at AfD on porn-related articles? Britishfinance (talk) 12:12, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
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The result was keep. A possible merge can be discussed on the article's talk page. Randykitty (talk) 18:54, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sons of the New Testament

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Non-notable political party, never really took off. Admittedly, I am relying on the Hebrew naming within the article but neither names give anything in the way of significant in depth coverage. Praxidicae (talk) 19:10, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Keep Part of Israeli political history, albeit fringe. No reason to delete. Credible sources exist.--Geewhiz (talk) 06:55, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as per Gilabrand and Number 57. Sheldybett (talk) 15:26, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge reasoning per Number 57, party could be merged into the article "List of minor political parties in Israel". ShimonChai (talk) 05:58, 27 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete We see a regular flow of new and wannabe political party articles at Wikipedia. This one is pretty typical. It was founded by a non-notable citizen (actual new parties tend to be founded by notable political figures,). The founder, Bishara Shlayan [17], started a twitter account a few months after announcing his new party; he has 11 followers - no indication of notability there. The announcement "Bishara Shlayan, an Israeli Christian Arab from Nazareth who is creating a new Arab political party, says many citizens, including Jews, are contacting him to express their support, and some of them want to donate." However, they "fear to go public with their support, he said." Party had no followers. It got a flurry of news coverage when it was founded. And nothing since. Founder appears never to have been mentioned in the press again. party never ran a candidate. It never existed beyond the announcement made by the man who announced that the had founded it. We cannot even call it a defunct political party. I oppose adding it to a list of political parties because the never was a political party. Feel free to ping me if I have missed some evidence that this "party" existed in my searches. I am always willing to change an iVote.E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:21, 1 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Hi E.M.Gregory, I believe you asked for a ping when this spans more time and actual candidates run for office. Best, gidonb (talk) 09:03, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Gidonb Can you provide those sources? Because I've searched and found exactly 0 that satisfy notability. Praxidicae (talk) 23:25, 2 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Praxidicae There are excellent references already linked in the article. gidonb (talk) 23:28, 2 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The blaze is certainly not an excellent source and none of the others are in depth coverage. Praxidicae (talk) 23:38, 2 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And to add to that is a 404, is certainly not a neutral, reliable source and at best, what is said about the subject in the others are from POV pieces and not at all in depth. Praxidicae (talk) 23:51, 2 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have improved the sourcing. It is common that nominators argue with the references and those who disagree with the deletion, even after improvments were made. Withdrawal is less common. Not every nominator is up to this challenge... gidonb (talk) 23:55, 2 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Why would I withdraw when my point is still valid? The sourcing is still not adequate nor does the appropriate sourcing exist. Praxidicae (talk) 23:59, 2 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In your opinion. I think it is more than sufficient. We'll see what others say. gidonb (talk) 00:02, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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  • Examining the new, post-2013 English-language material added to page.
  • 2016 Soldiers under Threat is about Israeli Christians who enlist in the IDF and are threatened by Muslim neighbors. It cites Amir Shalian, one of the founders of the Forum for Christian Enlistment to the IDF, co founder is the cofounder of this party, a cousin, but article doesn't support notability of this political party.
  • 2016 Jewish News Syndicate: [https://www.jns.org/christmas-reality-palestinians-use-christians-as-a-pawn-israel-protects-them/ Christmas reality: Palestinians use Christians as a pawn, Israel protects them: "Shlayan, who is attempting to establish an Israeli Christian political party called Ichud Bnei Habrit (United Allies of the Covenant),..."} This doesn't support notability of the party, still just a guy in Nazareth who is "trying".
Gidonb, if you could be a little more specific, perhaps pull out the exact Hebrew passages that support the notability of the party, and election filing. (And if you could ping me when you do, that would be a great courtesy.) At this point I am pretty skeptical, leaning delete.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:24, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hi E.M.Gregory.
While referencing the article, I have added or improved 18 references of which about half have
TheBlaze
. Major channels next to popular Jewish newspapers that are now mostly read online.
The two articles that you quote are not part of the
WP:SIGCOV
. That's ok. They still help understand the subject over time, as well as information in the article, and can be discussed. Specifically, the Jewish News Syndicate made on 23 December 2013 an observation that is similar to the one you made on March 1, 2019. To understand where both were right and wrong we have to understand the timeline. After the 2013 Knesset election (January 22) and for the remainder of the year Bishara Shilyan and his movement were heavily covered: they were to establish a party and building a large Jesus statue in Nazareth, while drawing attention to discrimination, intimidation, and violence against Christians in Israel by their Muslim neighbors.
This group organized under the name "Diglei HaBrit" (Flags of the Covenant). So what makes it into a real party? Running of course. Registration as a party in Israel is usually done before elections at the Party Registrar. Did they run? Not in the next cycle of 2015! To be fair, there were extenuating circumstances: these were rushed elections after Netanyahu had basically taken his own government down, yet your comment from March 1 and that of the JNS's journalists were to the point. Neverthless, proof is and should be in the pudding. So the next election cycle the movement did register and does run (right now!), making this a terrible time to delete the article, also in light of the ]
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The result was redirect to Lamar Consolidated High School#Athletics. Anything worth merging is available from the article history. Randykitty (talk) 18:49, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lamar Consolidated Baseball

Lamar Consolidated Baseball (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats
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Appears to fail

WP:NTEAM: "Since notability is not inherited, the notability of an athlete does not imply the notability of a team or club, or vice versa." A Google search returns pretty routine coverage, which is perhaps to be expected for a high school sports team. Cubbie15fan (talk) 17:13, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:47, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

James Nelson Lee

James Nelson Lee (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Not notable local judge. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 15:31, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:45, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Robert Tingle

Robert Tingle (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Failed candidate for public office with little coverage. Fails

WP:NPOL
.

]

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  • Delete - fails NPOL and certainly doesn't satisfy consensus on other aspects. With 2 senate elections, there isn't a "biggest election" to redirect to. As a side note, the 2008 section actually reads as if it was written by the other side. Nosebagbear (talk) 22:46, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:44, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ford E. Stinson Jr.

Ford E. Stinson Jr. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Not notable local judge. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 14:30, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:43, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

J. Allen Carnes

J. Allen Carnes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Fails

WP:NPOL. Mayor of small town. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 14:28, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:42, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

John M. Robinson (Louisiana judge)

John M. Robinson (Louisiana judge) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Not notable local judge. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 14:25, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:41, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Kickstart CSS library

Kickstart CSS library (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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This article does not appear to meet the

WP:GNG as lacking a significant presence in independent reliable sources. Izno (talk) 14:02, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
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The result was delete . Materialscientist (talk) 05:24, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Rudina Suti

Rudina Suti (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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I want the page on my name to be deleted, because I am not a notable person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RudinaSuti (talkcontribs) 13:46, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to

]

Luciana Galvez

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Yet another article about a character which consists almost solely of plot lines, very little out there about the real world notability of the character. Should be a redirect, but an editor is insisting on creating this article. Onel5969 TT me 13:54, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Redirect I nearly nominated it for deletion myself last night but decided to consult another NPP instead. This character lacks the sort of real world significance Wikipedia demands these days. Personally I liked the "old days" when we had these sorts of character articles but this is clearly outside of current community norms and for good reason. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 14:15, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:40, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Margaret Walters (folk singer)

Margaret Walters (folk singer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Australian folk singer towards end of her career. Fully fails

WP:MUSICBIO (never nationally charted, no major awards, no major write-ups, no major tours etc.). The "External Links" section to her own Official Bio, and her Official Band, also indicate little GNG. Any case for this BLP is very (very) technical at best, but I cannot see a long-term future for this BLP in WP. Britishfinance (talk) 13:53, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
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The result was redirect to

]

Kushambha

Kushambha (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats
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Not in source given (either spelling), and appears from what I can see in books to be just a name in a genealogy, a "son", "brother", "father" to others, but not someone with any notability for themselves.

]

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  • I agree - Redirect (or merge) to Amavasu dynasty. The subject appears to relate to myth, not history, so that the only source to provide more information would be the two great Hindu epics. If they said more, I suspect we would already have it, but my guess it that he only appears in a genealogy. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:31, 24 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:36, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Rajiv Gandhi Cricket Stadium, Pondicherry

Rajiv Gandhi Cricket Stadium, Pondicherry (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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University cricket ground which has only hosted university games, no top-level games or notable teams, so fails

WP:GNG coverage. Google search throws up a bunch of mirrors of this article. Spike 'em (talk) 11:29, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
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The result was Keep (non-admin closure) Crystallizedcarbon (talk) 10:55, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nathan Gorman (boxer)

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Non-notable boxer does not meet

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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:33, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Super Puma Display Team (Switzerland)

Super Puma Display Team (Switzerland) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Not only does this article fail

WP:GNG (its only listed reference a dead link that was supposed to go to the subject's web page and all of its external links go to non-independent and sometimes primary sources, nothing better online), it appears to be subverting the consensus established here to redirect the article's non-disambiguated title to here (no comment on whether this subversion was intentional, although this does mean that the disambiguation is inappropriate) signed, Rosguill talk 03:22, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:27, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dolly Sharma

Dolly Sharma (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Fails

]

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The result was redirect to

]

Brexit (cat)

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]

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  • Keep, I guess? There is definitely coverage, although I find a silly joke about a cat's name pretty weak material for a topic. I might argue this cat is famous because the owner is of note and therefore a merge is best, but you can't really prove the owner's fame is why the coverage occurred. Sometimes cats just get famous, or the Daily Fail is low on child dismemberment stories for the day. I also think that at some point WP:GNG works best without convolutions or complications, where reliable extensive coverage = notable, silliness aside. MidwestSalamander (talk) 12:15, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • GNG requires sustained coverage, not a one-day or one-week article across the world, but evidence of lasting notability. There are many silly, endearing, spectacular, ... things which get their 15 minutes of worldwide fame, usually in the pages with unimportant news or as clickbait online. These things don't meet the ]
Excellent point. I vote delete or redirect per Fram. MidwestSalamander (talk) 13:13, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:27, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

G-Core Labs

G-Core Labs (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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De-prodded without rationale, original PROD rationale was "Most of the coverage has been on one of their products, G-CDN, which may meet

WP:CORPDEPTH for G-Core Labs itself." SITH (talk) 10:07, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
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Delete, insufficient in-depth coverage in

WP:NCORP
. The Guinness record might be a claim to fame, except that it doesn't mention this company at all; the claim that the company was involved in it is sourced only to one of its own press-releases ("Our content delivery network is the fastest and leading in Russia") which anyway does not make any mention of Wargaming or World of Tanks. This is also ]

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The result was soft delete.

]

EnPowered

EnPowered (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Small startup. Per sources in the article, in 2016 it had a staff of one. Per their crunchbase profile they currently have 11-50 employees. Fails

WP:NCORP - specifically the cited sources in the article are not reliable, not independent, or not in depth (or a combination thereof). Icewhiz (talk) 07:35, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
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The result was redirect to

]

Smashing the Opponent

Smashing the Opponent (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats
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No major coverage of this single, never charted or received any awards. Fails

WP:NSONG. Sources found via Google are only passing mentions. Jalen D. Folf (talk) 04:24, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
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  • Merge/redirect to the album. The Jonathan Davis feature does mean the song has more independent coverage than other tracks on the album. I don't think that is enough, so leaning towards redirect. MidwestSalamander (talk) 20:08, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "KORN Frontman Featured In INFECTED MUSHROOM Video". www.blabbermouth.net.
    Blabbermouth. August 7, 2009. {{cite web}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help
    )
  • "INFECTED MUSHROOM RETURN TO METAL ROOTS WITH KORN'S JONATHAN DAVIS". www.noisecreepcom. Noisecreep.
  • Oksenhorn, Stewart (February 2, 2010). "Infected Mushroom on the menu at Belly Up Aspen". www.aspentimes.com. The Aspen Times. {{cite web}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)
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The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 18:24, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Troll Cabal

Troll Cabal (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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No reasonable claim to notability. Does not belong here.

]

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  • Keep as a public interest issue. Hi I have an interest in this article. I am Papadonkee on twitter and I was a Convener of the Troll Cabal. We are an online group of satirists that lampoon Nigerian life and politics. Each year we hold online elections for a Convener. Elections this year take place on Saturday, which is why thebpage has been receiving a lot of good and bad attention. The Troll Cabal is a space that allows open and safe conversations about sensitive topics devoid of the usual divisiveness and rancour that typically enshrouds these sorts of conversations. Please keep the article as it is an online archive of the Activities of the Cabal. Papadonkee (talk) 22:30, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. The non-profit fails
    WP:ORG. Being affiliated with Yemi Adesanya isn't a valid reason for stand-alone inclusion.  Versace1608  Wanna Talk? 02:17, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
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The result was no consensus. Given the low participation in the debate, no prejudice against renominating in a month or so. Randykitty (talk) 18:23, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Versandhaus Walz

Versandhaus Walz (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Source searches ("Versandhaus+Walz" 1, 2) indicate this company has not accrued the

]

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  • Keep, considering also sources in German Wikipedia. Their "baby-walz" brand used to be the largest mail order / online retailer of baby products. "Die moderne Hausfrau" also has lots of hits, consider [25], [26]. Will need redirects from all the relevant brand names. —Kusma (t·c) 09:27, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. A possible redirect/merge can be discussed on the article's talk page. Randykitty (talk) 18:22, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cheyenne Arapaho Hall

Cheyenne Arapaho Hall (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Fails

]

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The result was no consensus. I recommend that editors continue to explore merging

Lisa Littman; it seems to me from the discussion that there might be enough notability here for one article, but perhaps not for two. Sandstein 08:37, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

Lisa Littman

)
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There was a consensus on this article's talk page six months ago ([[27]])to nominate at AfD as article fails notability tests

WP:PROF (Subject is not notable as an academic). (As well as other policies mentioned in that discussion.) Since then no new reporting has come out to offer subject or study notability. Article has also been discussed at BLP noticeboard here: [[28]
]

I am also nominating the associated page

WP:MEDRS (subject has been described in a single study which is under review). Article was also discussed and consensus was not to create for same reasons among others, 6 months ago, at WikiProject Medicine, here: [[29]].Safrolic (talk) 08:46, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

Update: I have notified page creators and the original editors involved in all three linked discussions (there was significant overlap).


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  • Keep. The subject is clearly notable under general notability per
    general notability
    :
United States references
  1. Borg, Linda (August 31, 2018). "Transgender article removed at Brown brings controversy". The Providence Journal. Archived from the original on 2018-09-02.
  2. "Brown researcher first to describe rapid-onset gender dysphoria". News from Brown (Press release). Providence, R.I.: Brown University. August 22, 2018. Archived from the original on 2018-08-23.{{cite press release}}: CS1 maint: unfit URL (link)
  3. "Brown statement, community letter on gender dysphoria study". News from Brown (Press release). Providence, R.I.: Brown University. August 27, 2018. Archived from the original on 2018-08-29.
  4. "Brown statement on gender dysphoria study". News from Brown (Press release) (September 5, 2018 ed.). Providence, R.I.: Brown University. August 27, 2018. Archived from the original on 2018-10-01.
  5. Flaherty, Colleen (August 31, 2018). "Journal Looking Into Study on 'Rapid-Onset Gender Dysphoria'". Inside Higher Ed. Archived from the original on 2018-09-01.
  6. Flier, Jeffrey S. (August 31, 2018). "As a Former Dean of Harvard Medical School, I Question Brown's Failure to Defend Lisa Littman". Quillette. Archived from the original on 2018-09-23.
  7. Heriot, Gail (August 30, 2018). "Are All Transgender People Born that Way?". The Volokh Conspiracy. Reason. Archived from the original on 2018-09-06.
  8. Kearns, Madeleine (September 6, 2018). "Why Did Brown University Bow to Trans Activists?". National Review. Archived from the original on 2018-09-20.
  9. Kearns, Madeleine (September 18, 2018). "Why Are Pediatrician Groups Conforming to Transgender Orthodoxy?". National Review. Archived from the original on 2018-09-20.
  10. Marchiano, Lisa (March 1, 2018). "Transgenderism and the Social Construction of Diagnosis". Quillette. Archived from the original on 2018-08-25.
  11. McCall, Becky (September 13, 2018). "'Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria' in Adolescents Stirs Debate". Medscape Medical News. Medscape.
  12. Melchior, Jillian Kay (September 9, 2018). "Peer Pressure and 'Transgender' Teens". The Wall Street Journal.
    ISSN 0099-9660. Archived from the original on 2018-09-25.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: unfit URL (link
    )
  13. Mikelionis, Lukas (August 30, 2018). "Brown U. censors 'gender dysphoria' study, worried that findings might 'invalidate the perspectives' of transgender community". Fox News. Archived from the original on 2018-09-15.
  14. "Reader outcry prompts Brown to retract press release on trans teens". Retraction Watch. August 29, 2018. Retrieved 2018-08-30.
  15. Sopelsa, Brooke (September 5, 2018). "Brown criticized for removing article on transgender study". NBC News. Archived from the original on 2018-09-19.
  16. Tannehill, Brynn (February 20, 2018). "'Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria' Is Biased Junk Science".
    The Advocate
    .
  17. "Trans parenting: Why are so many teenage girls appearing in gender clinics?".
    ISSN 0013-0613
    . Retrieved 2018-08-30.
  18. Veissière, Samuel (November 28, 2018). "Why Is Transgender Identity on the Rise Among Teens?". Psychology Today. Archived from the original on 2018-12-05.
  19. Veissière, Samuel (November 29, 2018). "Teen Transgender Identity: A Response to Critics". Psychology Today. Archived from the original on 2018-12-05.
  20. Veissière, Samuel (December 2, 2018). "The Debate on Trans Teens: Compassion Is Needed on All Sides". Psychology Today. Archived from the original on 2018-12-05.
  21. Verbruggen, Robert (August 16, 2018). "'Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria'". National Review. Archived from the original on 2018-09-04.
  22. Wadman, Meredith (August 30, 2018). "New paper ignites storm over whether teens experience 'rapid onset' of transgender identity". from the original on 2018-08-31.
  23. Young, Cathy (September 6, 2018). "Misguided uproar over trans study". Newsday. Archived from the original on 2018-09-09.
International references
ROGD sources not mentioning Littman
Based on at least the preceding lists, the continued existence of the Wikipedia article is more than justified, and content should be added that cites relevant sources listed above. Lwarrenwiki (talk) 12:00, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
To clarify, my position is keep for both articles. In addition:
  • I suggest we move
    WP:TITLEFORMAT
    .
  • I oppose adding the word "controversy" to the article's title, because that title would be taken to exclude content about the topic itself, limiting the article solely to content about the academic controversy surrounding the topic. It's a new article that obviously needs improvement. Adding "controversy" would preemptively stifle improvements to the article's coverage of its topic. Lwarrenwiki (talk) 21:06, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    The problem with missing out the word "controversy" is that the controversy is the topic of the article. 11 out of the 12 sources currently in the ROGD article discuss the controversy (and the only one that doesn't is the citation to Littman's original paper that sparked the controversy). There is no recognised evidence that such a condition exists, and until that changes, Wikipedia should not have an article on the speculated condition that says anything other than "this is a ]
If wanting medical articles such as what
WP:MEDRES guidelines and base their claims of the scientific literature, not non scholarly polemics is now called "censorist" then I proudly embrace that label. Not long ago it was called rigorous, it's fair game to cite the corrected plosone page which claims ROGD has "not been clinically validated", or the editor's statement[[30]] when you are writing a scholarly paper. It is less traditional to cite political websites completely unrelated to the science at hand as your only sources. Call me old fashioned but I say we stick with rigor. Don't tar people who want medical rigor activists, instead improve your references so that your article is unimpeachable.Freepsbane (talk) 04:43, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
It takes some rashness to say the nom is acting in bad faith when the Lisa Littman article was the subject of a RfC to decide what to do with the whole ROGD thing several months ago, and the RfC closer suggested the article be sent to AfD. I would've done it myself had I remembered to check what happened with the RfC. As for activism, there's already a bit of weasel wording on the ROGD page, e.g. "Activist publications have called ROGD "anti-trans",[9] "bad science"[10] and "a conservative invention",[1] whereas others have described the phenomenon as "particularly concerning" and called for further study,[1] while also suggesting that activists are "depriving the transgender community of their right to receive accurate information"." -- the first "other" is someone regularly called in for comment on Breitbart, and the second is who else but Lisa Littman herself... DaßWölf 17:52, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Begging pardon, but this is my first AfD nomination, ever, and I acted based on the consensus of three separate discussions spanning the breadth of the topic area, all of which you probably didn't see. I don't think that I could be characterized as "deletionist" or acting in bad faith. I do think, personally, that a single study which didn't actually look at any of the people it attempts to diagnose, and which is primarily promoted by opponents of transgender acceptance, doesn't deserve its own page on Wikipedia; if anywhere, it should be in an article about scientific transphobia to match the
Scientific Racism article. My personal opinion is not bad faith. Safrolic (talk) 19:12, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Saying that a paper whose conclusion you disagree with "doesn't deserve its own page on Wikipedia", and then nominating both the article for the purported disorder and the article about one of the proponents of that disorder's recognition, might lead people to think that you want to
WP:CENSOR Wikipedia's contents, which isn't something the community supports. In practice, we have articles about all sorts of disagreeable academic and pseudoacademic ideas, and we manage to handle most of them well (e.g., explaining that they're wrongheaded, or that they're technically correct but widely misunderstood, or whatever the reliable sources say). I mention this because if it feels like people are attacking your motives – well, we've unfortunately had a lot of difficulties related to this subject area over the years, and they might think that it's rational for them to be worried about whether your main motive is to prevent interested people from learning about this subject. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:15, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Understood, thank you! My problem with the paper is its methodology more than its conclusion, and that's separate from my problems with the article, which is its fringiness and lack of acceptable sources, which is further separate from the original discussion on the talk page, which I didn't take part in. I'm sure that people will attack my motives, but I wanted to be transparent about my own biases anyways. As a note, PLOS ONE has just (literally just now) issued their post-publication review, and redefined the scope of the initial paper. It's now titled Parent reports of adolescents and young adults perceived to show signs of a rapid onset of gender dysphoria. Should I link that in the proposal above, or add it down below? [[31]] [[32]] Safrolic (talk) 20:29, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and merge anything useful into an article about the ROGD controversy. There is not a single independent source discussing Littman (including the flood of refs above) that is not principally a report on the ROGD controversy. Just because a subject meets GNG does not mean that we have to have a stand-alone article, as clearly laid out in
    ROGD article, I am certain that the controversy deserves an article, but I don't believe that the postulated medical condition has anywhere near enough MEDRS sourcing to indicate any mainstream acceptance. The present article should be retitled to Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria controversy. --RexxS (talk) 13:43, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Delete per RexxS. XOR'easter (talk) 14:23, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep-ish but this is basically following RexxS's solution:
    • Merge Littman into the current ROGD article since she's a principal figure in it. There is nothing in there that is a BLP violation that needs deletion, and a brief bio sketch on the ROGD page to explain who she is would be fine so retain the contributions by the merge. Even if one believes Littman's article should be deleted, it should it should still end up as a redirct to the ROGD page.
    • Move ROGD to the ROGD controversy as suggested. Tagging it with that title alleviates the MEDRS concerns. --Masem (t) 14:41, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep
    Lisa Littman to it per RexxS and Masem - GretLomborg (talk) 16:23, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Merge Lisa Littman to the ROGD article, and retitle to Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria controversy per RexxS's suggestion. I think at this point there's probably enough lasting RS coverage that this topic satisfies notability criteria one way or the other. However, we need to make clear that what's notable about this isn't the as-of-yet poorly investigated theory, but the controversy surrounding it. I'm generally not a fan of redirecting BLPs to subject's work like this but there's probably a few sentences worth merging and it wouldn't do to lose the RfC on the talk page. DaßWölf 17:52, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Postpone this discussion entirely, because the "under review" paper isn't under review any longer: it was re-published today with some editing (e.g., to remove the word outbreak, which makes being trans sound like an infectious disease) and a lengthier description of the methodology, but with no fundamental changes to the conclusions findings. See https://www.chronicle.com/article/Journal-Issues-Revised-Version/245928 which says "The new version adds context and softens language that drew complaints from transgender advocates, but the primary findings in the paper remain unchanged", and https://blogs.plos.org/everyone/2019/03/19/correcting-the-scientific-record-and-an-apology/ which says "we have reached the conclusion that the study and resultant data reported in the article represent a valid contribution to the scientific literature". WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:24, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Finding that polling data from relatives was technically valid does not make an endorsement. The editor of PLOSone[33] and the reviewers found that Littman grossly overeached in using the poling data to claim a clinical discovery. Hence the Discussion section has been almost completely rewritten with emphasis put that there is no clinical data to back up the hypothesis. I promise you as someone who has dabbled in biomedical and has a journal publication or two that having to totally rewrite your discussion and publish a lengthy letter of correction is less than ideal, especially in a lower impact journal like plosone.Freepsbane (talk) 21:13, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Did anyone here claim that there was such an endorsement? IMO even if such an endorsement existed, that wouldn't change my mind: The impetus for this article is a controversial paper that was re-published on the same day that this attempt to delete it was begun. I therefore recommend not trying to rush forward with a decision, as if there were some
WP:DEADLINE to get this deleted or re-written Right This Minute. It'd be better to wait a while. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:40, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
For everyone’s information it is important we look at what the peer review process found. "The post-publication review identified issues that needed to be addressed to ensure the article meets PLOS ONE’s publication criteria. Given the nature of the issues in this case, the PLOS ONE Editors decided to republish the article, replacing the original version of record with a revised version in which the author has updated the Title, Abstract, Introduction, Discussion, and Conclusion sections, to address the concerns raised in the editorial reassessment" If the argument was that the paper was approved and is unchanged, then according to Littman’s updated paper that is not the case.I think it good if we all have the most trustworthy sources possible when making arguments.Freepsbane (talk) 17:42, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Regardless of whether the study or its conclusions were valid or not, the re-publishing changes nothing about the articles or the subjects or the reasons for the AfD. Littman is still a BLP1E who fails WP:PROF. ROGD is still a hypothesis based off one study with no clinical evidence, inherently failing WP:MEDRS. You're arguing for keeping these articles based on the chance that Littman may become notable in the future, or that ROGD as a condition may later be demonstrated in medical literature, and I don't see the point. Also, just to avoid anyone confusing the chronology, I introduced the AfD the night before the review came out. Safrolic (talk) 05:15, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And I think this is a good argument, keeping a medical page on ROGD, or on a non notable academic on the argument that in the future they might stop failing inclusion criteria is begging the question. No reason to break our rules on the chance of a future change.Freepsbane (talk) 17:42, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Clarifying here that the findings are not the conclusions. The primary findings in the paper were what the parents surveyed said. That didn't change. The conclusions were what the author drew from her findings. Those have changed significantly and I posted the original and revised conclusions at the ROGD talk page. Safrolic (talk) 21:01, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete This seems to be a textbook example of
    WP:BIO1E: Asides from a single event that received some coverage from socially conservative sources (which has since petered down) there is very little else that can be found on Littman. If you check her publications, she hasn't published on a journal with an impact factor over 4. She is an nontenured assistant professor and there is nothing else she is notable for. If we ignore this single event and focus on general notability will we be giving every nondiscrepit Assistant Professor a Wiki page, I know quite a few with Nature and Science publications, one of them was even invited to some conference with the Gates Foundation. It's very hard to argue that other professors with blockbuster papers shouldn't get their own page when they far outstrip Littman by all Criteria.Freepsbane (talk) 21:23, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
It's totally irrelevant where she published. If she's covered by reliable sources that discuss her — it doesn't matter that the impact factor for studies is low. That's just a bait and switch — focus on the general notability guidelines... ]
The one playing bait and switch isn't me,
WP:MEDRES clearly states that you need consensus, ideally reviews and barring that clinical studies of some kind. Right now, the rewritten PLOS paper says there is zero clinical data to back the existence of ROGD. Should we ignore our usual guidelines, why?Freepsbane (talk) 18:58, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
As for the ROGD page, it should clearly be deleted per undue weight: as the corrected PLOSone paper notes, there is no clinical evidence to support the putative condition, only indirect anecdotes. If we gave every hypothesis low impact open journals published the same weight reviews in high impact journals get and gave them their own page, then you can imagine just how much speculation only pages we would get. ROGD is on extra thin ice since it has the black mark of the journal forcing a rewrite of the entire discussion to one that hedges on if the hypothesis even exists.Freepsbane (talk) 21:33, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete each article per nom; Littman is
    WP:MEDRS standards; if the latter article is kept, moving to a title with "...controversy" in the name might help, but because "all biomedical information [...] in any Wikipedia article" needs to meet MEDRS, it'd still be hard to say much about it beyond that it's unsupported. (Btw, regarding "it wouldn't do to lose the RfC on the talk page", it's always seemed a bit odd to me that WP deletes talk pages in cases like this; Wiktionary, for example, doesn't.) -sche (talk) 21:49, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
If that part of MEDRS were 100% upheld we'd not have any articles on, say, anti-vaxxers, which would be silly. MEDRS is important if anything of biomedical nature is said in a factual, WP voice. As long as we say in the article labeled "controversy" that "Proponents of this theory suggest..." and the actual accountable, disproving MEDRS sources included after the fact, that's encyclopedic. MEDRS cannot be used as a hammer to rid topics that aren't based on good science when there are other reasons to keep the topic. --Masem (t) 03:19, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That's actually a fallacy, there is no shortage of reviews and credible medical sources and organizations that cover antivax ideology and refute their claims. Whatsmore, if we followed your suggestion we would have to take a
WP:BALANCE fallacy where we give both sides equal weight although the backing of sources is grossly unequal. PLOS says there is no clinical evidence to back this hypothetical condition. It shouldn't be that hard to take them at their word. MEDRES works just fine for refuting antivax as it's really easy to say find an AAP statment and review that meets MEDRES and debunks antivax claims. What is hard to find is clinical studies backing the antivax stance, ergo why we don't represent them equally.Freepsbane (talk) 03:57, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Never said there would need to be a need to create a false balance to cover a controversial, non-MEDRS report. If the focus of the RGOD article is flipped to be about the controversy rather than the "condition", then we would briefly mention that the PLOS paper claims RGOS existed and defined as such, and then proceeded to move into the criticism of the paper, including any counterstudies that are from MEDRS, any undermining of the scientific approach used, etc., As long as throughout that article it is clear that RGOS is only a claim made by this paper and nowhere close to accepted medical fact, then it doesn't matter if there are or aren't MEDRS sources to refute it. The controversy around RGOD clearly appears notable, with most speaking against the likelihood of RGOD being legit, but it makes no sense to not have an article just because there doesn't exist an MEDRS to counter. We just need to make the approach and tone clear that WP is no way endorsing RGOD, and instead only documenting the controversy around it. --Masem (t) 13:46, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Anti-vaccination redirects to Vaccination hesitancy, an article about the phenomenon of people who, despite the consensus of the many MEDRS-compliant studies and papers mentioned in the sources, still believe they're dangerous. It's an article more similar to Scientific racism or Climate change denial than neutrally presenting a medical phenomenon in its own right. What might be more applicable is MMR vaccine and autism. It's complete dissection of the flaws in the original research, using MEDRS-compliant reliable secondary sources. I'd be okay in principle with an ROGD controversy article in this style, personally; the problem is that there aren't MEDRS sources available, because nobody's bothered to do any further research, because the original study was so heavily discredited already. Safrolic (talk) 03:40, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
]
How could you merge it to the hypothesis when it's abundantly clear that a page on medical theory would meet none of the
WP:MEDRES criteria. Even the one PLOSone paper on the subject, after correction, says there is zero clinical evidence to support the hypothesis. There is enough nonschollarly sources for maybe a subsection in PLOSone's page, but according to even Littman's revised paper, we lack any scholarly sources to make a page on medical theory.Freepsbane (talk) 19:04, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Well I just want to know why my friends, mentors and their Nature/Cell/Science articles shouldn't also get their own pages. If we can give
ROGD a page despite the total and complete lack of any clinical data to validate it's existence, (according to plosone no less!), then I find it very hard to see why each and everyone of their very highly cited papers -Which are making a big impact in science- shouldn't be getting their own pages as well.Freepsbane (talk) 22:47, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
If they have sufficient sources about them, then why shouldn't they have articles? I don't care where she published, if she's controversial enough to have articles written about her — which is what matters of Wikipedia — she's notable. It's totally uninteresting that her research is crap. ]

Again,Criteria is pretty clear that notability should be based of the academic's scholarly work and how cited it is. If she were notable academically I'm sure you could point me to a Nature Review on her work. Freepsbane (talk) 19:06, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That said, @
CFCF: was off the mark in guessing that my stance is based off animus. If it were I would be voting to keep her biography as PLOS one of all places forcing you to discard and completely rewrite your original discussion and conclusion and publicly criticizing it is no feather in one's cap. Deleting would probably be better for the career of the academic instead of forever being known for a high profile rejection of your conclusion and forced rewrite. The ROGD page I admit I am not impressed by but there we have a medical styled page covering what it claims to be a syndrome without providing so much as a single clinical study as evidence. Mind you I would say the same if we gave other fringe medicine topics the same undue weight. If sound evidence were provided I wouldn't be able to criticize no matter whatever purported biases I might have.Freepsbane (talk) 23:30, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
ROGD as a medical condition completely lacks any clinical data, (even according to plosone) so that is debatable. That said, the controversy, as a popular culture, nonmedical topic, might possibly be notable.Freepsbane (talk) 22:47, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • One option could be to merge the ROGD publishing controversy with
    WP:Undue guidelines the nonscientific controversy aspect would fit perfectly into PLOS One's section on controversies. Especially now that the review and total rewrite of discussion/conclusion along with editor statement are completed.Freepsbane (talk) 04:09, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
That's actually a really good idea. It looks comparable to the two instances there already, and provides a redirect-friendly landing spot for people searching for it. Safrolic (talk) 04:58, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I would be careful with that, at least as I am reading; PLOS has its own problems, but this does not seem to be something directly that PLOS did (outside of being an easy-to-publish platform that made it easy for this work to get this far). PLOS did require the rewrite, but again, that's a response and not so much their direct involvement. It's effectively shooting the messenger, which WP should not do. (But that's based on what's in the article - if there is clearly more involvement from PLOS than given, that's different) --Masem (t) 13:55, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It wouldn't be shooting anything and you highlighted exactly why it's relevant to PLOS. It is easy to publish there so many of their papers end up undergoing post publication review. The consensus among their reviewers was that they let a paper with significant discussion and conclusion flaws through, and so they had those sections rewritten. Freepsbane (talk) 19:09, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I like how your cites are nearly all from the journal, the editor and the reviewers. Very good idea to cite scholarly sources when possible since lay cites often summarize poorly. I’m trying to save the rogd page by improving it’s sources to make them medres compliant but I fear that is impossible: a single National Review writer with no expert qualifications makes nearly all the medical claims in the article. There are no peer reviewed sources to back the existence of the condition save for a PLOS article that instead is skeptical sans says there is no clinical evidence. I think merging ROGD with PLOS is our best bet.Freepsbane (talk) 20:06, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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I bundled them together because they're both discussing substantially the same thing and they were both previously discussed together in the same RfC on the Talk:Lisa Littman page. I thought having two separate discussions with the same people might be more confusing. Is that alright? Safrolic (talk) 22:57, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed: I’ve been trying to find scholarly sources for the ROGD page but that seems impossible, especially for finding ones that attest to its existence. I don’t believe it will be possible to keep rogd as a medical page. However it’s plently likely that even if Littman didn’t meet academic notability guidelines she might meet some other i’m not aware of. Rogd needs its own page for its own hearing.Freepsbane (talk) 22:24, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 08:33, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Clem Bastow

Clem Bastow (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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also Clementine (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs· FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Non-notable journalist. This article is only linked to from a few pages, and is not substantially connected to any of them. Euchrid (talk) 02:40, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Comment Still thinking about this one and still looking. As well as the awards listed in the article there is also this one. The subject is definitely prolific, and is extensively published by multiple very well respected multi media outlets, so certainly has a high level of professional standing. However, there is very little independent material about her that I can find so far. Does not have to pass either JOURNALIST or ENTERTAINER (comedian) individually if overall they pass GNG. They may already pass AUTHOR? Aoziwe (talk) 11:10, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The lack of incoming links and-or their qualtiy, while a flag, is in no way definitive regarding notability. Aoziwe (talk) 11:14, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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The result was speedy keep. Nominator is a blocked sockpuppet. No other delete votes.

]

Md Moazzem Hossain

Md Moazzem Hossain (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Besides one indepth report [34] there is little else to justify this individuals inclusion in the encyclopedia.  << FR (mobileUndo) 06:06, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure) — MarkH21 (talk) 05:51, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Arthur Rubin

Arthur Rubin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Article survived

]

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The result was no consensus. There is clearly a lot of news coverage about him, but the question of whether that coverage fails

WP:ROUTINE does apply I think there are equally strong arguments on both sides over whether he passes the bar. King of 06:43, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

Wink Hartman

Wink Hartman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Subject is merely a failed candidate for public office; thus fails

WP:GNG
.

]

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Sorry, but as I explicitly and correctly pointed out, ROUTINE explicitly includes content pertaining to the notability of people involved in events — the fact that the article's title happens to refer to a person rather than an event does not change the fact that the person's notability claim derives from an event, and hence ROUTINE is still a factor in whether he's notable enough for an article or not. And as I explicitly and correctly pointed out, every candidate in every election always gets some local campaign coverage — so candidates do not automatically clear GNG just because a smattering of local campaign coverage exists, because if they did then every candidate would always clear GNG and NPOL would have no meaning or weight at all anymore. So the notability test for a non-winning political candidate is not just that some local campaign coverage exists, it is that the campaign coverage expands significantly beyond what every candidate in every election can always show, such as by nationalizing far beyond just the local media. I'm wrong about exactly none of what I said. Bearcat (talk) 20:42, 14 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't believe that is correct interpretation because the second paragraph of the essay states "This notability guideline for events reflects consensus reached through discussions and reinforced by established practice, and informs decisions on whether an article about past, current, and breaking news events should be written, merged, deleted or further developed." And paragraph 3 (Section: Background) states: "This guideline was formed with the intention of guiding editors in interpreting the various pre-existing policies and guidelines that apply to articles about events..." Further, the essay makes multiple references to
WP:ROUTINE of "announcements, sports, speculative coverage, and tabloid journalism" -- and therefore, once again, passes [[WP:GNG].--Paul McDonald (talk) 21:10, 14 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
if this is enough coverage to get a candidate over GNG, then every candidate in every election always gets over GNG and NPOL means absolutely nothing anymore, because every candidate always gets local media coverage by which a GNG claim can be attempted. So the test for getting a candidate over GNG is not and never has been just the fact that some campaign coverage exists in the local media of the place where they were running; it is that the coverage nationalizes far beyond the scale of what every candidate always gets, to the point that the candidate has a strong claim to being a special of significantly greater notability than most other candidates.
And if you feel strongly that my interpretation of ROUTINE is wrong, then you're more than free to propose that it be reworded to wipe out all the parts of ROUTINE which plainly indicate that it does apply to the standalone notability of people involved in events — as long as it says what it says, it stands alone as its own thing and is not invalidated just because other parts of the document address other things.
Bearcat (talk) 15:04, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Please quote any part of
WP:ROUTINE "which plainly indicate that it does apply to the standalone notability of people involved in events" as you say. I also feel compelled to point out that this individual was the was on the Republican ticket for Lieutenant Governor of the State of Kansas (hardly indicative of "every" candidate in "every" election, and garnered 453,645 votes). Plus, there are sources in the article from 2010 to 2018, so it clearly isn't about "an event" at all but a person. --Paul McDonald (talk) 16:13, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
per the recommendation above, I have requested comment at the talk pages of Wikipedia:Notability (people) and Wikipedia:Notability (events).--Paul McDonald (talk) 17:49, 15 March 2019 (UTC) [reply]
Its examples of what counts as routine coverage explicitly include things like wedding announcements and crime logs, specifically because people often attempt to use sources like that in Wikipedia as support for the notability of people. Nobody tries to write Wikipedia articles about weddings per se, but people regularly attempt to claim that the bride and/or the groom are notable enough for BLPs because the wedding announcement exists. People never try to write articles about "Charleston Street mugging, July 2018" as a notable "event", but they regularly attempt to use the local newspaper reporting about the mugging incident as support for using Wikipedia to name and shame the person who got arrested as the mugging suspect. This is what I'm talking about: ROUTINE does not only apply to "event" articles about events, but most certainly does also apply to the question of whether the people involved in those events are notable enough to warrant their own standalone biographical articles or not. The question of whether ROUTINE is relevant or not does not attach to the question of whether the article's title names a person or an event; it attaches to the question of what the article's body text is describing as the context of the topic's potential notability claim.
And no, even lieutenant governor is still not an office where candidacy confers an automatic notability freebie: the coverage still has to nationalize well beyond where it's merely expected to exist before a non-winning candidate clears the notability bar, even at the gubernatorial level. Even presidential candidates, in fact, aren't guaranteed articles just because they exist — even at that level, a non-winning candidate still has to show a broad range of quality coverage, that still has to go well beyond mere technical verification of their candidacies, before they're notable enough to be exempted from having to pass NPOL by winning. Bearcat (talk) 18:26, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'll ask again: Please quote any part of WP:ROUTINE "which plainly indicate that it does apply to the standalone notability of people involved in events" as you say. I won't get drawn further into arguments that are not germane to the discussion (the article isn't sourced by a wedding announcement or crime log).--Paul McDonald (talk) 19:24, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that ROUTINE's own stated examples of how it applies explicitly cite types of coverage that pertain to people is in and of itself inherent proof that ROUTINE does apply to people. It doesn't have to explicitly say that it applies to people if its examples of what it means are examples of it applying to people. "Wedding announcements" and "crime logs" are examples, being cited in a "including but not limited to" way, so the fact that this article isn't sourced by a wedding announcement or a crime log is irrelevant to the matter anyway. Bearcat (talk) 19:49, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If that were true, it would be no problem to provide simply one of these explicit examples as I have requested. Third and final ask: Please quote any part of WP:ROUTINE "which plainly indicate that it does apply to the standalone notability of people involved in events"--Paul McDonald (talk) 21:04, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
FYI-Referenced below, Wikipedia talk:Notability (people)/Archive 2019 shows that there is no consensus among the community on this issue.--Paul McDonald (talk) 22:21, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ]
Changed to Keep per the CNBC article found by user Otr500. The one thing that was missing from my searches was a second article that featured the subject - and there is no question in my mind that the CNBC article meets that criteria. Passes ]
Comments: DYK, Even the racing mention can be covered elsewhere. Wink, as well as Sarah Fisher, are currently former owners. Wink (a Republican) might have offered financial assistance after news reports of Hillary Clinton (a Democrat) visited the team in 2008. Fisher was in trouble as a sponsor failed to deliver, and Hartman sent her money. It became officially became CFH Racing for one season in 2015. Hartman must have been only a sponsor from 2008 to 2015? Hartman pulled out for the 2016 season and the team became Ed Carpenter Racing. We have articles that have wrong or misleading information and we propagate that Hartman is a current owner (He co-owns Sarah Fisher Hartman Racing) when this is not true. Sarah Fisher Hartman Racing (SFR) "is an auto racing team founded in January 2008", would now be outdated so the lead should state: "was an auto racing team", because Hartman pulled out, and is now Ed Carpenter Racing. Now we consider that Hartman is "notable" because he owns a team, and this almost made me change my mind, until I looked at it a little more. I can understand creating and keeping articles but surely there should be standards as advanced by policies and guidelines. "CFH Racing" (a start-class article) is covered under the history of Ed Carpenter Racing (also a start-class article) and it would seem that instead two of these start-class articles they could be merged to one better article. My point is that the subject, Wink Hartman, does not currently own a racing team, and did not when the article was created, so what is the consideration for adding to notability? Notability is not fleeting. The subject is not really notable for not winning any political office, he is was a short term owner of a racing team that likely does not give notability, so we add these non-notable things together to create notability? I can understand if we allow all rich people to have an article. That would at least give a criterion. Otr500 (talk) 14:58, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Notability is not temporary. If he was notable before, nothing could happen to make him "un-notable" later. If the content of the article is out of date, that is simply an editing issue and not a deletion issue.--Paul McDonald (talk) 16:28, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion has been sidetracked on a lot of philosophical issues. Regardless of whether ROUTINE applies to biographies, the coverage here is far, far from routine. We have multiple, in-depth feature stories about Hartman, including major metropolitan dailies. This one in particular is a 1,500-plus word feature profile of Hartman in a national publication written years before his run for lieutenant governor: "A Wealthy Guardian Angel Lands at Indy 500" USA Today, 5/20/12. How can anyone honestly contend that such coverage is routine? Cbl62 (talk) 21:40, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The incumbent advantage is a good point, but shouldn’t that be discussed at the talk page for
WP:NPOL? The current consensus seems to rule against this particular article and that would need to be changed. — MarkH21 (talk) 02:02, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
  • I'm going to provide one more point for keeping this article: the policy
    ignore all rules. Fifteen different articles (not including redirects, disambiguation pages, or non-article-pages) link to this article, and we typically create and keep articles for major political party candidates for lieutenant governor of a state in the US -- for example, John Doll (Kansas politician) has a page as the candidate for LG in Kansas in that same election as an independent, but also lost the election and only managed about 15% of the vote of the losing Republican ticket. Keeping the article looks better and helps Wikipedia to be more complete and well-rounded, thus making it better and meets the policy of Ignore All Rules. While the article may remain a stub, stub articles are okay.--Paul McDonald (talk) 22:18, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
Comment John Doll is a member of the Kansas Senate and passes
WP:NPOL independently of the the 2018 election. --Enos733 (talk) 01:54, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Comment @]
Response The creation date of the article is of minor consequence as Wikipedia is not being built in an orderly fashion. Sources in the article go back to 2010.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:32, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Per ]

Comments

  • Comments: We had a line break above by a relisting concerning WP:Routine that was argued against being used on this subject but a "keep" !vote did make the application. The "standalone notability of people involved in events", especially when sources are used on specific events to advance the notability of a subject, would certainly invoke the use when assessing a source. This type of discussion is more relevant in another area, however, I concur so unless further contested WP:ROUTINE can and has been used. When I looked at the article I see what I refer to as routine coverage of an event of a politician running for office. A person thinks about running for office (may run again) so it is reported, a person decides to run then withdraws, and so forth is routine coverage of a politician running for one or more offices (didn't continue for governor so now the Senate). It appears the subject is wealthy, maybe bored, or maybe just has enough money to have several businesses and to take the time to champion personal causes. Possibly the subject would like an article on Wikipedia. The can of worms| is the "wide-reaching consequences" that any person running for any office could be "considered" notable for an article if we don't consider a basic test: "For people, the person who is the topic of a biographical article should be "worthy of notice"or "note"—that is, "remarkable" or "significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded" within Wikipedia as a written account of that person's life.". If I counted correctly four sources are from "Kansas.com" (Wichita Eagle), two from "Kansascity.com" (The Kansas City Star), so are from two sources for any notability consideration. Some of the sources are plain routine news coverage good for content verification, he went to college, bought a racing team, ran for governor, possibly the Senate, picked as a running mate they apparently lost. I don't think the local or regional reporting rises to match the bar of notability for a stand alone article. Otr500 (talk) 14:39, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@]
There is nothing in
WP:GNG that restricts consideration of coverage to only national publications.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:30, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
The only keep !votes that I see with some substance is: WP:IGNORE with the supposition that it improves Wikipedia but this argument opens the door to allowing businessmen, that would not normally be considered for an article, to run for offices ---- lose ---- and get an article. If we agree to "significant coverage in multiple, reliable sources, and thus passes WP:GNG", we would really need to do away with any notability requirements, just go with WP:IGNORE, and allow all articles to exist. I examined the sources and "significant" is certainly subjective because two sources dominate this article (see above) and multiple uses of the same source count as one towards notability considerations. Since the subject is still alive and rich there will be more chances to become encyclopedia notable and maybe he can win.
Don't forget that using mundane coverage (calling it "significant") for a losing candidate opens the door for any person with local coverage to gain an article. I can start probably 50 in one town of 250,000, one television station, and four newspapers. If the AP wire picks it up it will be several newspapers covering the same subject. My favorite "keep" above would be "notable-ish". We could add that to changes allowing everyone everywhere to have an article. I support this if I get one.
Normal state elected officers, that might not usually get an article, can join all the ones that ran and lost where there was "significant local coverage". Why stop at a losing Governor or Lt. Governor? Pretty much anyone can provide coverage for every position in a state government and all state representatives that lose will certainly deserve an article. All it would take would be multiple reporting of the same coverage in three sources. My weatherman has more than that. Where is the line? There are other pretend encyclopedias out there that don't have the requirements we have so we can digress to that level. Wikipedia has started to become more trustworthy on articles and maybe that is a bad thing?
I still like the beginning ground test: "For people, the person who is the topic of a biographical article should be "worthy of notice" or "note"—that is, "remarkable" or "significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded" within Wikipedia as a written account of that person's life.". Otr500 (talk) 14:59, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I also think that Wikipedia:Notability (people) is the best standard.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:30, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • No consensus ruling on Routine The idea of "routine coverage" serving either inclusively or exclusively for a political candidate was discussed extensively at Wikipedia talk:Notability (people)/Archive 2019 -- this "centralized discussion" which appears to have a much higher volume of involvement resulted with "no consensus whether or not routine election coverage suffices for Wikipedia:Notability." This seems to refute or at least negate any delete position referencing the "routine" coverage argument. At least one of the editors in this discussion was also in that discussion.--Paul McDonald (talk) 22:18, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I appreciate you vigorously pushing for this to be kept, but unfortunately there's a logical flaw in your argument suggesting that discussion negates delete !votes in this discussion. As the closer noted, the options in that RfC were in itself flawed to the point where someone "supported both." The "no consensus" close means nothing changed as a result of the RfC, not that we're bound by some new rule, and that everything is still status quo. If we were to accept your interpretation of "no consensus," that would be potentially similar to having option B as the "winner" in the RfC (though, in my opinion, Option B was not well worded and could technically be a status quo argument.) In political AfD discussions, the "status quo" looks at someone's notability in light of the fact many politicians and political hopefuls exist around the world, trivial coverage of politicians exists, and determining whether the coverage is trivial/routine, or significant is an exercise for the !voter. SportingFlyer T·C 03:54, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with SportingFlyer in how the AfD should be interpreted - in that there was no consensus to change how the community treats unelected candidates under ]
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The result was no consensus. King of 06:23, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No. 6207; A Study in Steel

No. 6207; A Study in Steel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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No evidence of any

]

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  • Comment. Looking at online sources, the subject of the article has received coverage from Hackaday ([35]), Silodrome ([36]), The Old Motor ([37]), and has an entry with the British Film Institute ([38]). Looking at book sources, the film was reviewed and discussed in the books Railways in the Cinema by John Huntley (p. 96) and Volume 28 of the London and North Eastern Railway Magazine (p. 145). According to Google Books, the film is also mentioned in other books that I don't have access to. For a film from 1935, offline sources are also likely to exist. MarkZusab (talk) 23:21, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you user:MarkZusab for your kind explanation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tony May (talkcontribs)
The two Google book links are passing mentions. The other three diffs look like personal websites / blogs to me (but I may be wrong about these, feel free to inform me better). The BFI lists (or tries to list) every film made in Britain, it is not an indication of notability (just like a national library collects and documents every book, pamphlet, ... from a country. ]
As you have already decided to rule out the BFI as RS (!), there seems to be little point in discussing anything with you. Fortunately this isn't your decision to make.
This is better known through the railway community, that's certainly true. In fact, it's sometimes described in film histories as a 1968 film, by the better-known British Transport Films unit and Peter Hopkinson gets credited as having written it. It was re-released with BR / BTF branding in 1968 and I think some of the narration text was changed. An oddly anachronistic re-release anyway, with BR torn between crediting the LMS (which disappeared 20 years earlier) and the loco itself (with the withdrawal of steam that same year).
But if you look through histories of British documentary film for the 'Grierson era' you should find plenty. There's a newish (couple of years ago) big thick history of such by James Chapman, New History of British Documentary and I expect that would be a good source. Andy Dingley (talk) 18:33, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's a very good source to strengthen my delete opinion. "6207" doesn't appear in this book apparently... ]
Sorry, but searching the Belgian copy of Google books, on a book that's still in copyright (and so the whole text isn't there) is the same thing as reading the book? Andy Dingley (talk) 19:57, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, of course - this is about ANI, isn't it? Makes sense now. So anything I say here, you're just going to disagree anyway. Sorry, I hadn't recognised the names. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:00, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Or you could, you know, for example state the page(s) where the book has info on this documentary? That would be more helpful than unwarranted snark. In what way is this AfD supposedly about ANI? Oh, and I didn't rule out the BFI as a reliable source, please don't make such unwarranted claims. It is a perfectly reliable source, but it doesn't convey any notability, which is what this discussion is about after all. ]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde (Talk) 14:56, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ]
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The result was delete. King of 06:22, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Alvin Xan Juice

Alvin Xan Juice (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Non-notable musician, created by a paid editor. This was previously moved to draft-space for improvement and review, but the author moved it back without any discussion. A search turns up nothing that meets

reliable sources at all. Bradv🍁 05:06, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

I really do not understand what kind of reliable source you are looking for but I have laid down a whole lot of resources am even tired of reviewers trying to knock me down but will always be back at my feet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alvinwebster (talkcontribs) 05:26, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy deleted by

]

Mohamad Tiregar

Mohamad Tiregar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Deprodded by the article's creator, but absolutely zero notability as per

]

Delete doesn't show notability or GNG. One reference is to another Wikipedia, another is to what looks like a very short description of him. Having IMDB doesn't mean anything. A lot of articles are deleted despite IMDB being referenced. Please see Wikipedia:Citing IMDb. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 04:14, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • checkY :More than 20 films have played.
  • checkY :Instagram a plus de 300 000 fans. La réputation de cette personne est très claire (Mohamad Tiregar)
@
reliable sources independent of the subject. Can you show newspaper or website articles showing they pass this criteria? HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 04:55, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
@HickoryOughtShirt?4: Mohamad Tiregar on film ir portal google خدای (talk) 06:15, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@خدای: I must be missing something. This still doesn't show he meets GNG. For example, the first hit is this. Another hit is this. None of these are interviews, articles, or analysis of him or his work. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 06:21, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@HickoryOughtShirt?4: Mohamad Tiregar

Why do you insist that this person is not famous? Mohammad Tiregar teaser خدای (talk) 06:32, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Because he isn't Because he is not Notable per Wikipedia standards. Both pages you linked to do not show GNG. Wikipedia has certain criteria that must be followed when creating articles, otherwise it's just a free-for-fall. I suggest you look over WP:Notability and familiarize yourself with the content. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 06:35, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@HickoryOughtShirt?4: Instead of helping me to improve the article. You are trying to delete it. I'm really sorry خدای (talk) 06:45, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I can't help if he isn't notable. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 06:47, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Comment - have opened a sock investigation, ]
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The result was delete. King of 06:21, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Laura Kamrath

Laura Kamrath (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Former child star with just one role-which the film does not even have a Wikipedia article (well kind of, it does have the actors from it who are notable linked to the novel), still not notable. (Another old page that is still around-this one from 2005!) Wgolf (talk) 03:06, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Copypasta#Navy Seal. King of 06:20, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Navy Seal copypasta

Navy Seal copypasta (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats
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Notability of this meme is questionable. Only significant coverage is sources like Know Your Meme that try to document every meme that comes along, and even the fact that it was included in the manifesto of the perpetrator of a recent mass shooting has only earned it passing mentions in reliable sources. I would support a redirect to Copypasta#Navy Seal. Ahecht (TALK
PAGE
) 02:45, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete Lots of coverage in RS around this meme given recent events. After looking at a couple dozen reliable sources I found nothing deeper than a one sentence mention. This complete lack of signficant coverage suggests a lack of notability. Know your meme is frequently
    WP:UGC, though it looks like this entry was updated by the managing editor. Further concerns about the explicit naming and shaming of a now 16 year-old. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 03:18, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
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  • Delete: No reliable sources other than the Rolling Stone article, but even that only mentions the meme without any additional information. This kind of content is more suitable for KnowYourMeme. ]
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The result was delete. King of 06:15, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

WICR (AM)

WICR (AM) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Unlicensed

]

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The result was merge to Meyer Malka. The "delete" !voters have not given a reason why a merge to the founder's article is not suitable, so that shall be the default result in this situation until and unless the founder's article is nominated for deletion. King of 06:19, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ribbit Capital (company)

Ribbit Capital (company) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Fails

WP:ORGCRIT requirement for sustained in-depth coverage. References are either interviews of principals (Coindesk) or brief mentions of routine financial transactions. The 2015 NYT piece has depth but is primarily about the CEO, not the company. ☆ Bri (talk) 01:33, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

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  • Request: This article is in need of a major update. Ribbit has asked if I will propose one as a COI paid editor. The company now has quadrupled to $2 billion under management - |Ribbit Capital Exceeds $2 Billion in Assets Under Management With New Fund and has more "unicorns" (start ups with valuations > over $1 billion) than any other financial tech VC firm, by a large margin - | Ribbit, Index Lead Fintech Unicorn Hunters. I'd also note that 23 sources were deleted dif, since the approved draft moved into mainspace, describing in detail their many investments through mid-2016. These sources, although passing mentions, show sustained coverage up to that time. This type of consistent coverage has greatly intensified since then because the firm is 4x larger. There are also more significant sources, like the ones above. Since I can't do direct edits on the article because of COI, and Request Edits are frozen during an AfD (in practice, even if not policy). I'd make a special request to the nominating editor Bri and the only voter so far K.e.coffman that if both approve, one of you move this article into draft space so I can directly edit (highlighting proposed changes) and/or remove the AfD for 72 hours to let me submit a Talk page Request Edit ad have it reviewed. In my experience, voting editors only judge the article as it reads in mainspace. You can then immediately submit it to AfD again. If you aren't both in agreement, or I'm wrong about whether this is an acceptable practice, I'll add another note with partial new sourcing. Thanks. BC1278 (talk)
New and Sustained Significant Coverage: (Not yet in article because I can't directly edit) | Ribbit Capital Exceeds $2 Billion in Assets Under Management With New Fund (Wall Street Journal) (2018. Overview of firm); Ribbit, Index Lead Fintech Unicorn Hunters (CB Insights) (2018. Importance of Ribbit compared to other VCs in same sector, with Ribbit the most successful by the "unicorn" measurement; | Fintech investment powerhouse Ribbit Capital aims for $420 million with its latest fund (TechCrunch) (2018. In-depth profile of the firm, not an announcement; the firm did not comment for the story. Techcrunch is a Reliable Source, but with several cautions, such as whether the writer is a columnist or has a conflict of interest,
Ozy (magazine) is a major international online publication backed by Laurene Powell Jobs.) In addition, to establish sustained coverage, there are also several dozen passing-mention stories, not establishing notability individually, but taken together, show its sustained activity (stories similar to the 23 removed sources noted above). The founder doesn't give many press interviews, so that discourages big feature stories, but the firm's huge foot print that is well tracked through publicly-disclosed investments.BC1278 (talk) 20:00, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
@BC1278: TC coverage is in-depth. I'm getting 404 errors for the others you list above. ~Kvng (talk) 13:14, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Kvng, fixed. Thanks!BC1278 (talk) 14:41, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
MidwestSalamander (talk) 21:51, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Typical branded/marketed articles, only here for the shareholders/investors, with usual refs that are very shallow, either reporting how much it raised in venture funding, or how much it has in assets. Article fails ]
and ]
Add: The founder is not notable either, so I would oppose a merge. K.e.coffman (talk) 23:26, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Of the references above, of the 5, 4 of them are from press releases as the language of the article is identical, as is the header names. Clearly the references are not sustained coverage. scope_creepTalk 14:46, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus. Sandstein 08:32, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Dante's

Dante's (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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This is just a relatively popular bar in Portland. It's well known to locals, but I don't feel like it meets our general notability guidelines and 90% of the contents in this article have absolutely nothing to do with the subject. Much of it is about the history building supported with numerous permit records from the building department form matters prior to the business in question opening. Graywalls (talk) 03:00, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Add onto explanation. I checked sources. Overwhelming majority of references are in the Portland Mercury which is a paper known for publishing local events and where it's happening with each print like a calendar. So I don't think those counts as a "source". Ask locals and those familiar with the city will say yes. But you could compare that with going to a smaller town and ask people about a local hot spot. A large proportion will know "the spot" but this doesn't mean its really notable enough to justify a page here. Maybe on the local town wiki. I looked through edit history. Many made by the owner himself. I don't think you'd have to succumb down to pulling up a ton of irrelevant building permits from before the building even existed to try to save the page's existence if there was independently published sources to support notability. Anyways, this is what I searched: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22dante%27s%22+%22portland,+oregon%22&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X

Graywalls (talk) 06:15, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

add #2 these are accounts used for editing. Puppets or recruited by business. These have done most of the contribution that I suspect they are either puppets or employees adding their own page. Ffaillace (proprietor himself), Pspark (single purpose account), Elbuffer(SPA), AndersonC88900(SPA, minor amount)Graywalls (talk) 02:08, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment (info only). But the two "yes" input in that notability talk lacks any actual discussion. For those not familiar on how consensus vs vote is approached here, you may wish to consult these policy/guideline/nutshell pages
    supplement to consensus guidelines to understand how you reach a position within the purview of our guidelines rather than a completely open ended personal opinion Graywalls (talk) 05:21, 13 March 2019 (UTC).[reply
    ]
Additionally, "Consensus in many debates and discussions should ideally not be based upon number of votes, but upon policy-related points made by editors." from ]
Yeah, none of this is new to me. I still vote keep. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:55, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
General significance:
  • "Berbati's Live," Oregonian, 2005. "Ash Street Saloon, Dante's, Satyricon and the Roseland form downtown's hard-rock heart,"
  • "Sound check notes from the Northwest music scene", Oregonian, 2008. Last of a collection of rock clubs from the early 2000s: "Dante's is the last of that batch still standing --and not just surviving but actively thriving." Coverage of its anniversary party, commentary on keys to its success.
  • COVER STORY "The queens of Portland's rock scene", Oregonian, 2006. Dante's noted as especially influential because the booker owns the venue.
  • "Jack London Revue picks up where Jimmy Mak’s left off," Oregonian, 2017. Faillace's ownership of Dante's noted in review of new Portland club. See also Willamette Week coverage from 2016, and similar story from 2015.
  • Oregonian articles frequently quote Faillace as owner of Dante's for his opinion on music acts such as "The Monday Profile: Andre Temkin" (2007).
  • A number of 2019 articles (e.g. KOIN, Portland Tribune highlight Dante's alongside the Crystal Ballroom and Keller Auditorium as examples of the "dozens" of venues potentially affected by proposed seismic regulations.
  • Willamette Week 2012: Dantes' "hallowed pizza window"
Significant role in launching career of Storm Large. Reported in publications from Massachusetts to Hawaii, from 2003 to 2017.
  • "TAKE COVER -- IT'S STORM LARGE," Oregonian, 2003
  • "CRAZY FOR MUSIC - Chanteuse Storm Large brings her brash brand of cabaret to SLO Brew on Monday", The [San Luis Obispo] Tribune, 2012: "Frank Faillace, owner of the Portland night club Dante's, persuaded her to return to performing" (and Dante's is where she performed many times over many years)
  • "5 things to know about Storm Large," The Republican, Springfield, Mass. (2017)
  • "The Queen of Dark Cabaret: Storm Large puts on a spellbinding show" West Hawaii Today (2017)
The "Karaoke from Hell" band, with its multi-decade run at Dante's, is often referred to as one of Portland's unique entertainment offerings.
  • "In Portland, city of musicians, wannabe musicians and music fanatics . . . Karaoke is king Karaoke: Making dreams come true" Oregonian 2009: "Few places showcase that better than Dante's Karaoke From Hell on Monday nights."
  • "Krazy for karaoke!" Oregonian 2008. "Come Monday night, it's time for Karaoke From Hell, which draws a wild variety of deceptively mild-mannered middle-agers, outrageously attired cross-dressers and everybody in between to take turns singing with a live band onstage at Dante's."
-Pete Forsyth (talk) 19:21, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
comment I haven't checked every one of the sources you mentioned. I have reviewed a handful along with
WP:ORG. Happening to be the occupant of one of many unreinforced masonry buildings in Portland in articles about buildings, not the organization. This is a mention in passing. Berbati Being Sold to Owners of Dante's and XV and In Wake of Jimmy Mak's Closure, New Jazz Club Will Open in Basement of Rialto See inherited/inherent notability section. Future Drinking: Is Lonesome's Pizza Coming to Dante's? This is trivial mention in an article about the new happenings of what's opening up where. Graywalls (talk) 03:29, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
sorry i'm adding things in multiple sections. I'm working on it in bits as time allows. Chicago Reader The coverage relating to Dante's is minimal and it establishes that it was the venue she frequently used, but: "An organization is not notable merely because a notable person or event was associated with it". Storm interview reads "Tired of the club scene, she moved to Portland to pursue a new career as a chef, but a last minute cancellation in 2002 at the Portland club “Dante’s” turned into a standing Wednesday night engagement for Storm and her new band, The Balls", but again, it's not about Dante's. The one coverage in Willamette Week, an alternative media that is partially or about 50% about Dante's. Graywalls (talk) 08:48, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I want to remind everyone that an article about a business does not have to meet
WP:SIGCOV. But I am leaning delete on this one at this point.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:10, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
I'm reading
WP:GNG with more rigorous requirements.Graywalls (talk) 19:07, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
@E.M.Gregory:, can you comment?Graywalls (talk) 05:47, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of 01:17, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. PeteForsyth's survey of coverage combined with E.M.Gregory's reminders about how sourced information is essentially "additive" makes me lean towards keep, even though it's a clearly marginal case. Orgs are different than BLP also- where "people in the news" often hit against BLP1E, there isn't the same bias towards privacy necessary for orgs. tedder (talk) 15:36, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • A whole bunch of snippets and trivial coverage in local papers don't stack up together to substitute a in-depth coverage in national or regional papers. I've inquired deeper into the dialogue with
      WP:GNG as a measure to safeguard against manipulation and exploitation "marketing and public relations professionals" to quote the policy documentation. Additional requirements here aren't for privacy, it's to safeguard against promotional articles. Please see the discussion on this talk Graywalls (talk) 18:22, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
      ]
I understand you feel that way. You've made it clear by replying to every discussion on this AFD, on the talk page, in the edits, on user talk pages, and so on. tedder (talk) 20:03, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep.

WP:RAPID. Wait a week before renominating if you really still feel it's not notable. King of 04:24, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]

2019 Utrecht shooting

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AfD by

]

Keep - I personally oppose deleting it, as per
WP:RAPID, which states:

Articles about breaking news events—particularly biographies of participants—are often rapidly nominated for deletion. As there is no deadline, it is recommended to delay the nomination for a few days to avoid the deletion debate dealing with a moving target and to allow time for a clearer picture of the notability of the event to emerge, which may make a deletion nomination unnecessary. Deletion discussions while events are still hot news items rarely result in consensus to delete. There may be alternatives to deletion, such as merging or reworking the article so that it conforms with policy, for example, by rewriting an article about a person known only for one event to be about the event. Other alternatives to deletion while the story develops are userfying or incubating the article in draftspace.

This is a clear case of RAPID and we should definitely wait a few days. MrClog (talk) 01:10, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
]
Keep. This easily passes notability requirements. A mass shooting in which 3 people were killed inside a busy city tram, followed by the killer fleeing. There was major disruption and restrictions prior to the suspect being arrested. There has been a great deal of coverage by the mainstream international media. Even if no terrorist link is found, it's a major event with lasting significance. This is Europe's worst crime of 2019 and won't quickly be forgotten. Jim Michael (talk) 01:27, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I agree with the person quoting WP:RAPID that it's too early at this stage to consider a deletion. Also, this is a notable subject, especially in a Dutch context (low crime rate, shootings are rare), and so far the article looks pretty good to me. --Spooners21 (talk) 01:27, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep I agree this is ongoing and if more turns up could be much more or not. ContentEditman (talk) 01:30, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong delete This is a clear case of
    WP:NOTNEWS. Much of the content and apparent notability stems from reports speculating that this may have been a terrorist attack, which it no longer appears to have been. Wikipedia is not a newspaper and has no obligation to report on every mass shooting that happens, even those covered by the press at rapid fire. 97.118.129.179 (talk) 01:24, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply
    ]
  • Keep Wait. Per Wikipedia:Notability (events)#Inclusion criteria, "Editors should bear in mind recentism, the tendency for new and current matters to seem more important than they might seem in a few years time. Many events receive coverage in the news and yet are not of historic or lasting importance."
That remains to be seen in this case. A lot will turn on whether it is an out-of-control domestic violence incident, as some reports suggest, in which case it may quickly fade from history with little or no trace, or a terror event, in which case it will have lasting historical importance, at least in The Netherlands. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 01:39, 19 March 2019 (UTC) Changed to keep. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 02:09, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Major violence at a public place in which most of the victims are strangers is not usually considered domestic violence. Even if this had happened in the killer's house & all the victims were related to him, it would still be notable enough for an article. Jim Michael (talk) 02:00, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Notable event, Definately keep article. I cannot understand the rush to want to delete it. Whilst I'm not comfortable with these type of events being given quite so much media attention, it seems very clear that it is a highly unusual notable incident in the dutch context, even if hindsight may teach us that it was notable for being an over-reaction, or perhaps too quickly labelled a terrorist incident. I very very rarely edit wikipedia (so please forgive any newbie format errors here) but as a daily/hourly wikipedia reader I've found that articles like these give important clarity & conciseness that I often can't find elsewhere. Surely these sort of articles will be very helpful for future research. I've worked all my adult life in UK media, now living in NL. MVG / Thanks 77.163.66.189 (talk) 02:12, 19 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. King of 06:15, 26 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Rhoda Montemayor

Rhoda Montemayor (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
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Does not meet

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