User talk:Piotrus/Archive 40
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 35 | ← | Archive 38 | Archive 39 | Archive 40 | Archive 41 | Archive 42 | → | Archive 45 |
Radzymin - again...
Hi there, could you take a look at Grandiose's comments on copyright of photos you uploaded to commons here? I'm not an expert and I'm not sure what is it that he really want. //Halibutt 22:37, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks. I took a look at Staszic and did a quick ce, adding some {{who}} tags here and there. Sadly, I wouldn't feel comfortable assessing the article myself as I can't really tell much of the prose. Not a native speaker. //Halibutt 20:27, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
- This horse never dies apparently. Would you mind?. I mean the question No. 2: "File:The_fighting_near_Radzymin.jpg: what steps have been taken to look for previous publication? Same for other images from that source". Any ideas? I must say I also liked the questions about the architect of the church depicted on one of the photos. //Halibutt 21:29, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
History of Poland (1569–1795) + History of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (various)
You appear to have left various split/merge tags on these pages. Do you intend to update these articles? Op47 (talk) 20:06, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
- I'm aware of the merge issues that have been raised. What keeps it from happening is that History of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth (1764–1795), the third and last of the detailed History of Commonwealth series is not finished, as I'm being distracted by several other projects. May be I should prioritize this work to get the Commonwealth situation cleaned up. Orczar (talk) 22:34, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
- I've made new suggestions under ) 15:42, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
We miss you!
Piotrus: On behalf of WPPOLAND - we hope to see you back with us again one day!
Hopefully inside the next 5 days we launch a new website with the first of 5 printed booklets on anti-Polish sentiment. I planned to inform Wiki Polish editors encase they can use it. Jniech (talk) 22:09, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
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Bias real or perceived?
Hello, I'm the anonymous editor that recently got involved in a coupe disputes regarding the editing style on a coupe of pages such as Haller's Blue Army and Poland Armed Forces. As a casual user of Wikipedia I was unsettled by editing which I consider as bias towards polish subject matter. When comparing pages on similar topics I noticed that the language used on pages related to a polish topics used much harder (judgmental) terms, and the phraseology used created a subtle, but clear bias towards Poles that presents them in a negative way.
One example was the recent Buckshot06 edits on Polish Armed Forces page, when I stumbled on this page there was only one picture in the "History" section, and it showed Polish soldiers in a diminutive way that only invited negative and stereoscopical perceptions. So, I added the current pictures which show the Polish military in a respectable, but neutral way. Now, user Buckshot06 is trying to remove them one at a time, by claiming that they have nothing to do with the text.
Another, editing issue that I'm involved in is that of American football coach Jerry Sandusky who was accused of child abuse. Sandusky himself is an American first... of mixed Polish and Irish descent. But, the page only mentioned his Polish roots omitting his Irish ancestry, and when his Irish ancestry was added, administrator Milowent was insistent on only highlighting Sandusky's Polish roots first, as if the man was 100% Polish. Please see the edits below to see how he keeps changing the page structure to highlight this, and in the most recent edit he locked the page despite the fact that no vandalism or edit warring took place.
1st edit: Sandusky was born in Washington, Pennsylvania, the only son of Evelyn Mae (née Lee) and Arthur Sandusky. His paternal grandparents were Polish immigrants and his mother came from a small coal-mining town.
2nd edit (neutral): Sandusky was born in Washington, Pennsylvania, the only son of Evelyn Mae (née Lee) an Irish Catholic homemaker who came from a small Pennsylvania coal-mining town, and Arthur Sandusky who's parents immigrated from Poland.
...and this is what the section was changed to (below). It seems strange how in this case someone wants too highlight the man's Polish root, even if it means that the structure of the text is moved in a incoherent way, since the earlier sections listed the mother first, than the father, and proceeded to list the father's accomplishments, Also, how many times is the editor going to try to use Poland or Polish in one sentence, it seems like he's trying to fill the page with this fact.
3rd edit: Sandusky was born in Washington, Pennsylvania, the only son of Arthur Sandusky, whose Polish parents had immigrated from Poland, and Evelyn Mae (née Lee) an Irish Catholic homemaker who came from a small Pennsylvania coal-mining town.
Now, since the page is locked, I'm not able to revert the changes, and I can't constantly argue with an administrator who clearly has more power to block IP's or lock pages. And, to prove my point of a bias, don't see any mention of Polish ancestry on pages related to other football players/coaches such as Mike Ditka, Don Majkowski, or Rob Gronkowski. Yet, in the case of child abuser Jerry Sandusky his polish background is highlighted and edited to maintain this bias. --76.118.227.161 (talk) 02:01, 4 December 2011
- There's always the WP category for "Polish bank robbers". PЄTЄRS
JV ►TALK 20:23, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
tb
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
- If you set up a questionnaire sandbox, I'll fill out. Best, PЄTЄRS
JV ►TALK 19:13, 7 February 2012 (UTC)- Never mind, added mine to the sandbox! PЄTЄRS
JV ►TALK 20:17, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
- Never mind, added mine to the sandbox! PЄTЄRS
guilt trippin'
Ay, with this [1] you're making me feel bad. I'll try to do some of these soon. One thing though that has turned me of is that the particular time period that is being dealt with - 18th century - is both one that I'm not all that familiar with and one that, relatedly, not that interested in.VolunteerMarek 00:37, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Billboard charts
I've thought of organizing the various charts into genres such as rock, country, dance, pop, etc. It would at the same time split
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Billboard charts
I've thought of organizing the various charts into genres such as rock, country, dance, pop, etc. It would at the same time split
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February meeting
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Saw your quotes
I was reading the University Times on-line and saw your quotes. Great job and thanks for taking a stand. CrazyPaco (talk) 00:23, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
WP Poland in the Signpost
The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Poland for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. -Mabeenot (talk) 08:27, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for the note, Piotr. I hope that you take the time to participate in the interview. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 06:13, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
You should also direct Vecrumba to the interview (if you haven't already). I don't know if he has listed himself as a project member, but he certainly contributes a good bit.VolunteerMarek 18:54, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
- I "promoted" myself to more active status. :-) PЄTЄRS
JV ►TALK 19:18, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
Okay, you won, I added my 2 groszes :) //Halibutt 23:14, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
Maps
Hello again! I uploaded the finished files and you can see them at
- Here are the the Armia Krajowa and second Berlin maps:
-
Armia krajowa
-
2nd Berlin map
- I closed the Map Workshop request as "resolved" so there's no need to reply there. As for the Berlin defences map, I've already started working on it. I'm trying to overlay it on a map of the city to make it possible to add more useful details. The Z sector was very easy to figure out, while the second line traces several water bodies closely. I also found a decent map of Berlin in 1945 that shows the extent of the urban area, but if you have a good one and can find a detailed description of the lines it would greatly increase accuracy. Later, we'll be able to use this as a basis for other maps illustrating the battle inside Berlin. Cheers! -- Orionist ★ talk 05:33, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
WP:Poland interview
Czesc. When is the deadline for the interview? I would like to contribute, but until tomorrow evening I am kinda busy. - Darwinek (talk) 21:08, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
Number of sejmiks
I checked a few books, but found only descriptions, not numbers. Orczar (talk) 14:54, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
Seriously :)
Hi! What've I done? I've been a lazy sloth of late except Calais and a few jazz stubs.. Ja kitty looks quite spiteful..♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:55, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
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Is created :-) CrazyPaco (talk) 11:28, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Note about deprod on article "Stencyl"
I have removed the {{
Additionally, I have an open request for feedback (Wikipedia:Help_desk#Requesting_general_review_by_non-creator_for_new_article) if you have specific concerns about the article's content. I appreciate any feedback a senior editors such as yourself may have. Thanks. DotHectate (talk) 20:03, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for the feedback. It's pretty much the same as what User:Captain_Screebo recommended on the help desk page so obviously moving some of the EL to references where appropriate is going to be higher on my to-do list. Thanks again. DotHectate (talk) 23:38, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
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The Bugle: Issue LXXI, February 2012
|
The Bugle is published by the
We miss you! Update
The new version of the German Camps, Polish Victims website is now live. http://germancampspolishvictims.info/ It has the first of the associated booklets called “German camps, Polish Victims: The BBC coverage of German occupied Poland” available for free download. This 64 page booklet outlines what studying over 500 pages on the BBC website found.
If time please check out the site and download the booklet. Any comments on either would be appreciated. The booklet goes to the printer end of next week, so any comments on its content and format would be useful. Note: the cover is still missing due to it needing to be converted to PDF but I don’t have the software at present.
Perhaps the link to the web site could be added to Polish "Polish death camp" controversy or the Anti-Polish sentiment articles on Wiki Jniech (talk) 15:16, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
You said: Interesting project, I'll take a look. Have you considered releasing your content under a Wikipedia-compatible license?
This project is why I am not active on Wikipedia. Can you direct me to “Wikipedia-compatible license” details? I am happy for the material to be used on Wikipedia. Jniech (talk) 20:24, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
- Wikipedia does not publish original research – Is not my booklet original research? Still can’t others use it? It is fully referenced and I am seen as an expert inside the Polish community e.g. my recent award. Jniech (talk) 22:08, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
Regarding your reversion in Marx
I can't see the justification for your argument for reversion. In archive 9, arguments from both yourself and Itsmejudith indicate the section shouldn't be present. As such I've started a discussion on the talk page, please comment. Fifelfoo (talk) 23:18, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
Wikimedia Research Newsletter
Hi Piotrus, the draft for the upcoming (Feb 27) issue is here and your contributions would be most welcome! The list of papers to cover is here.
And thanks again for your work last time. BTW, I notified Greenstein and Zhu of the review of their paper and got a very nice reply.
Regards, Tbayer (WMF) (talk) 09:23, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
- I had indeed looked briefly at the "Sciencepaper" paper (haven't had another chance since then, though) and indeed the quality issues at least regarding the writing were obvious. But I thought that they might have something interesting to to say, at least in the sense that the paper contains information that would not otherwise be accessible to non-Chinese speakers. In any case, even bad papers should be covered in the research newsletter; this can save the reader a lot of time ;)
- I have added several more papers (CSCW 2012 took place this month), two of which may interest you in particular: [2] (seems essentially a social sciences paper), and [3](slides - I see to recall you have also used Wikipedia in your teaching).
- Regards, Tbayer (WMF) (talk) 02:14, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for your note. I did not really see this as DYK material, since it is mostly a collection of lists of names. And I can't think of any tagline. I was more using it as a sort of "to do" checklist: see how many redlinks I could turn blue. But if you would care to submit it, I would be delighted. I think it is "clean" in the sense of being fully-sourced, having no copyright violations and having more than enough non-list text. :~) Aymatth2 (talk) 21:08, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
DYK for Battle of Grunwald (painting)
nominate ) 08:03, 24 February 2012 (UTC)
A cupcake for you!
DYK for University Times
Materialscientist (talk) 08:02, 25 February 2012 (UTC) Disambiguation link notificationHi. In your recent article edits, you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
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DYK for Foucauldian discourse analysis
DYK for Kaytek the Wizard
Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:02, 22 March 2012 (UTC) Precious
DYK for Sejm of the Duchy of Warsaw
Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:03, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
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DYK nomination of Polish civilian camps in World War II
DYK for Piotr Skrzynecki
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Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:14, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
Wikimedia Research Newsletter
Hi Piotrus,
I think Dario already notified you, and it seemed you may be taking a break, but just in case you could still find the opportunity to contribute within the next four hours, this paper seems in the social sciences category and could benefit from a reviewer with good knowledge of the community (it concerns the debates about flagged revisions). Any other help is appreciated as well - we are quite behind schedule this time.
Regards, Tbayer (WMF) (talk) 17:05, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
- Ah, Njullien just added a review, this is kind of an awkward coincidence - feel free to expand it though, or to pick another item, there are still around 10 uncovered... Regards, Tbayer (WMF) (talk) 18:22, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
Be careful on bio banners
You just added a lot of WikiProject Biography banners to talk pages. You put living=yes in the banner when people were dead and sometimes put living=no when people were alive. Also, the living parameter comes before the class parameter. Bgwhite (talk) 22:58, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
- Problem was 90% of them were wrong, which goes beyond simple mistakes... I'm the king of mistakes, so I know how to make big and small ones.
- While you can put the living parameter in any order, it: a) Proper place is first b) helps us gnomes reading things better.... I look at the code and it helps my poor brain to figure things faster. Bgwhite (talk) 23:06, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
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could you strike part of your comment, please?
Hi, on the Admins' noticeboard you said that a quote was by me when it was actually added by user 72.145.253.232. Would you mind striking it since it's not relevant? Malick78 (talk) 17:04, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
Your opinion requested
On this CfD discussion, similar to a previous discussion you participated in December: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2012_March_28#Category:Healthcare_by_country Thanks! --Karl.brown (talk) 21:36, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Help us develop better software!
Thanks to all of you for commenting on the
Justynian Szczytt (d. 1677)
Hello. I expanded an article about Justynian Szczytt (d. 1677). Could be now a B-Class article? Regards Kmicic (talk) 15:47, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
WikiCup 2012 March newsletter
We are over half way through the second round of this year's WikiCup and things are going well! Grapple X (submissions), of Pool B, is our highest overall scorer thanks to his prolific writings on television and film. In second place is Pool H's Cwmhiraeth (submissions), thanks primarily to work on biological articles, especially in marine biology and herpetology. Third place goes to Pool E's Casliber (submissions), who also writes primarily on biology (including ornithology and botany) and has already submitted two featured articles this round. Of the 63 contestants remaining, 15 (just under a quarter) have over 100 points this round. However, 25 are yet to score. Please remember to update your submission pages promptly. 32 contestants, the top two from each pool and the 16 next-highest scorers, will advance to round 3.
Congratulations to Matthewedwards (submissions), whose impressive File:Wacht am Rhein map (Opaque).svg became the competition's first featured picture. Also, congratulations to 12george1 (submissions), who claimed good topic points, our first contestant this year to do so, for his work on Wikipedia:Featured topics/1982 Atlantic hurricane season. This leaves featured topics and featured portals as the only sources of points not yet utilised. However, as recent statistics from Miyagawa (submissions) show, no source has yet been utilised this competition to the same extent it has been previously!
It has been observed that the backlogs at good article candidates are building up again. While the points for good article reviews will be remaining constant, any help that can be offered keeping the backlog down would be appreciated. On a related note, if you are concerned that your nomination, be it at good article candidates, a featured process or anywhere else, will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on
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The article
If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see
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Dispute resolution survey
Dispute Resolution – Survey Invite Hello Piotrus. I am currently conducting a study on the dispute resolution processes on the English Wikipedia, in the hope that the results will help improve these processes in the future. Whether you have used dispute resolution a little or a lot, now we need to know about your experience. The survey takes around five minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist in analyzing the results of the survey. No personally identifiable information will be released. Please click HERE to participate. You are receiving this invitation because you have had some activity in dispute resolution over the past year. For more information, please see the associated |
Rhodesiana
Thanks for the review! Have expanded. Hope it's okay now. —Cliftonian (talk) 18:30, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Award
Thank You for Award! Kmicic (talk) 23:26, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
DYK nomination of Slavery in Poland
Wikiproject proposal
Hi Piotrus,
I'm really excited about your Wikiproject fellowship proposal. I added another recent bit of research to the 'Previous Work' section... hope you don't mind. I would love to talk about this with you at length. I've been complaining to Siko about getting WMF serious about WikiProjects for a while, and am starting to see promising signs.
Oh, and also your research question #4 is my dissertation topic :) Yeah, we definitely need to make this proposal happen. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help. - J-Mo Talk to Me Email Me 03:57, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
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Constitution of May 3, 1791 (painting)
No problem. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 16:13, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
- Hi Piotrus. I edited the prose, and I hope I didn't change the meaning of anything. Good luck with the GA review. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 20:42, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
Stanisław Kania vs. the Nazis
Howdy, Piotr! Since I saw [literally: I unfortunately don't understand Polish] you'd remarked on the Dyskusja:Główna Komisja Badania Zbrodni Niemieckich w Polsce page, it occurred to me - and not for the first time, though it's been a while - you're the go-to guy on some topics of mutual interest. So I'd appreciate your input on the matter I just raised at Talk:Stanisław Kania. I'm just now coming into contact with some source materials that may be relevant to expand Wikipedia articles, so I'm taking some initial steps to help make these more accessible. -- Deborahjay (talk) 16:24, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
DYK for Opole (administrative)
DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page. |
Victuallers (talk) 00:02, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
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DYK for Slavery in Poland
DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page. |
Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:47, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
DYK for Byron Khun de Prorok
Hi, you kindly suggested the aforementioned article be nominated for DYK. However the "process" is impossible for me to even begin. The page you sent me is absolutely incomprehensible to all but the most committed Wikipedian, I don't know where to even start, what to edit, where to write, who to ask, what to say, how to say it. Can you help Aetheling1125 16:16, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
DYK for Łukasz Orbitowski
nominate ) 08:03, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Haller's Blue ArmyThere is an ongoing neutrality dispute regarding Haller's Blue Army. Users Faustian and Malik Shabazz are re-adding phrases that through discussion on the "Talk" page were deemed as inaccurate, and through consensus removed. When I deleted them, they are now accusing me of war editing, and threatening to block me. I also noted that the entire "Controversies" section is written in a bias language that unfairly sensationalizes the events in question, and characterizes the issue in black and white only. If it's not too much trouble I ask that a senior contributor like yourself look at the issue. --91.150.222.225 (talk) 21:14, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
|
DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page. |
Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:05, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
DYK nomination of Revolutionary movement
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Can you help with a quick translation?
Hi, Piotrus. :)
I'm sorry to drop in on you with such short notice, but I'm hoping you can give me a quick hand. The Wikimedia Foundation wants to announce the new Terms of Use and would like to make the announcement to the Polish language projects in Polish. We've got a translation of the Terms themselves (meta:Terms_of_use/pl), but I need to get two sentences translated from English into Polish as quickly as possible. Since we've engaged so much in volunteer work, of course I thought of you. I was hoping maybe you could assist.
The sentences are:
- Our updated Terms of Use will become effective on May 20th, 2012. Find out more.
I think that this may be about right:
- Nasze zaktualizowane Warunki użytkowania wejdzie w życie 20 maja 2012 roku. Dowiedz się więcej.
Is that okay, or is there a better way to say that? If you don't have time, or would prefer not to, please just let me know, and I'll track down somebody else. If we can get these done in time, we plan to make the announcements this weekend and will be able to actually change that date to the 15th. :)
Hope all is well with you! --Moonriddengirl/Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 12:20, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
- Thank you very much, Piotrus! Next time I'll know where to go to get something translated in a hurry. I don't do much IRC but follow the basics. :D
- The Terms of Use you link at my talk page are the old Terms of Use, so I guess it's a good thing we're replacing them. If the issue is in the new ones, at meta:Terms_of_use/pl, you should be able to edit those, too. They may use an unfamiliar mechanism, though; they don't edit like regular wiki pages. At the top of the page, it says, This page is a translated version of a page Terms of use and the translation is 100% complete. If you see any issues, clicking on "translated version" will take you to an editable page. A weird editable page, if you're not used to it, but an editable page. :) --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 17:00, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Copyediting and removing of information
I am sure it was incidental, but in your c/e of this section, where did the mention of 14th-15th centuries go? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 15:36, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
The section title states the period over which the described changes took place, to which I refer in the replacement text. The elimination of prisoner-of-war slavery did not take place in the 14th and 15th centuries; it occurred gradually over the entire period. By the 14th century the conversion from captive slavery into hereditary serfdom was essentially complete, not only in Poland but over most of Christian Europe.
Note that the article is similarly unclear with regard to peasant or villein (chłop pańszczyźniany) vs. yeoman or free tenant (wolny kmieć) terminology. A peasant, by definition, is a farmer who does not own his land, but is settled on his lord's land in exchange for corvée labor (pańszczyzna). A farmer who owns his land and is free to migrate is not a peasant. I suggest you start from this resource. Hope this helps. :-) Freederick (talk) 18:51, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Nomination of Association of Telehealth Service Providers for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Association of Telehealth Service Providers is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Association of Telehealth Service Providers until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. KarlB (talk) 16:25, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
note i withdrew this nomination after further google searches. --KarlB (talk) 21:20, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
Help with article for deletion discussion
Peter, , The article Dimensional models of personality disordersis one written by a student in the APS Wikipedia Initiative (not from one of my classes). It is being considered for deletion on the grounds of lack of general notability. Although I am not an expert in Wikipedia policy, the topic seems notable to me, with lots of relevant scholarly and professional newsletter style references. Could you look this over and add your comments? As an ambassador, do you have any advice how the instructor or student should handle this? Thanks. Bob Kraut. Robertekraut (talk) 22:11, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
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Your Content Review Medal
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By order of the Featured Article Candidate reviews for the first quarter of 2012, I am delighted to award you this Content Review Medal. - Dank (push to talk ) 03:43, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
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