Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics/Archive 67

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Could somebody take a look at Draft:Souvik Mandal. It's a bit of a mess. I suspect there may be the germ of a good article in there, but it's quite badly written. Hopefully, somebody more familiar with the culture will be able to make more sense out of it than I can. Thanks. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:52, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Mandal in Birbhum district. I cant see anything that makes it notable for an article in mainspace. It could have been a part of the village article where this temple is located, but without the name of the village, there isn't much to do in that article. I will drop a note asking the same to the uploader, if he can elaborate more. --DBigXrayᗙ

19:22, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Shout out to @Titodutta: if he can add some value there. --DBigXrayᗙ 19:46, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Despite the normal definition of mandal, do you not think the draft title might just be the name of the uploader? Compare 'Uploadsou14' with 'Souvik'. Cesdeva ^(talk) 20:41, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

User:Cesdeva Indeed, that is a possibility and it was my first hunch, but lets AGF. Lots of users have their username based on their hometown. --DBigXrayᗙ 20:53, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

AGF always. I just think the editor might have inadvertently put their personal name as the title. I've found a goverment document from Birbhum district which lists a person with said name. Not going to post a link for privacy reasons. Cesdeva ^(talk) 21:02, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, Sauvik is a common Bengali name, a quick google search is enough, no need for secret govt docs for that. --DBigXrayᗙ 21:06, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Sorry I wasn't clear, i'm on about the full name: Souvik Mandal Cesdeva ^(talk) 21:09, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Agreed that is also a possibility. Since

Mandal is a common surname in India. That said what actually are you proposing here ? Please make a complete statement with your suggestions/proposal. Dropping one liners isn't really helpful. --DBigXrayᗙ

21:17, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

First, as we just discussed, there is nothing concrete to suggest this authors name is what you claim it is. A possibility is far from conclusive evidence.

Second, There is nothing in the draft body that suggests the draft is for self promotion of this person.

Third, If indeed the person's name is what you suspect, the person has himself added it in full knowledge. Possibly to convert the article to a vanity BIO at a later point of time, but as I said, this is just a possibility, we cannot act on possibilities there is no hurry and no reason to not AGF on the new author. I would suggest you not to make any post on AN on this but keep an eye on this authors talk page. --DBigXrayᗙ 21:41, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

I was merely proposing a pre-emptive, non-destructive act to potentially protect the identity of an editor. At no point have I questioned the author's good faith. I'm sure plenty of new editors have honestly titled their draft after their personal name, not aware of any potential consequences. In case I'm not on the money, and in respect your judgement, I won't post at any Admin noticeboard. Cesdeva ^(talk) 21:58, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, there is no reason to hurry. First let him respond to talk page Q that I asked.--DBigXrayᗙ 22:02, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

The author requested rename for the 2 drafts here. New drafts are at Draft:Bahira Kaalimaata and Draft:Bhandir Bon--DBigXrayᗙ 22:16, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

User:DBigXray Thanks for the update. Cesdeva ^(talk) 22:24, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Hello. With the efforts of User:Gazoth, now we have more than 114 thousand images uploaded from Press Information Bureau on Wikimedia Commons under the license GODL-India. Unfortunately, over thirty thousand of them are still not categorized. I'll be very grateful, if some users can lend a hand in helping me categorizing these images at Category:Images from Press Information Bureau needing categories. My apologies if this isn't the right place to ask for this. Thanks. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 13:25, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

If people didn't upload so much crap, there wouldn't be so much of a problem. I've just looked at that category and it is ridiculous. Why duplicate the PIB in such a way if the stuff is open for use anyway - should have been done selectively, as and when required. Just because some things can be done is not a reason to actually do them. This strikes me as another example of why Commons is such a terrible project. - Sitush (talk) 13:31, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Umm, that wasn't very helpful, but thanks anyway :| —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 13:37, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Plus, there are some confusion that "images" don't come under "data". --Titodutta (talk) 01:00, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

The most salient observations regarding these uploads which smack of bot-spamming. Commons' supposed 'scope' of inclusion has lost any rational meaning, way way back and hence, we are with a million images, half of which don't stand any chance of use. ∯WBG^converse 18:59, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

@Winged Blades of Godric: I wasn't going to respond to Sitush's snap judgment, but since you have deliberately tagged me, I feel compelled to respond. Any batch upload on Commons would fail the criteria of achieving near-100% usability of images. I knew that most images that my bot would upload would not be used, but that wasn't the point. One of my aims for the PIB batch upload was to make them more accessible to others. Disk space is cheap, but making other volunteers' work easy is not. Sitush's suggestion of uploading images selectively assumes that most editors are aware that PIB images are available in a Commons-compatible license and that all PIB images are easily searchable. I would put the probability of the former to be very low, since it took me several months to find out about GODL-India license while being a fairly active editor on India-related topics in English Wikipedia. The probability of a Dutch editor using a PIB image while writing about a Dutch politician in nlwiki would be almost nil without my bot's uploads.

Even if you are aware that you can use PIB images, it is quite hard to find images as PIB's built-in custom search mixes text and image results. You'd have to be aware of "site:" parameter in Google search that restricts results to a particular domain, but the average Wikipedia editor wouldn't be aware of this. Also, it requires Google to have crawled almost all of PIB's images, which hasn't happened yet and probably never will. If you search for Ibrahim Solih on Google images, you don't get even a single image of him, but a similar search on Commons returns multiple images uploaded by my bot, including the one used in his article. Even if you do get images, the list is often incomplete. For example, the official photograph of Manohar Parrikar used in the infobox of his article does not appear in Google search and most images in the results are inferior to the one used in the article. Due to this issue, it took me a lot of time to manually add images to List of current Indian governors article and even after that most images were sub-par. After my bot completed uploading PIB's archive, the images had to be swapped out with better ones.

It's quite easy to label somebody's edits in a hasty manner, but it looks like it's quite hard to assume good faith and bother to find out the reasons behind the edits. —Gazoth (talk) 23:54, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

Doesn't alter a thing. It is a Commons problem, not a problem for this project. I think most people regularly involved with this project would say that they have enough on their plate as it is. - Sitush (talk) 21:41, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

You seem to be mistaken. I did not ask for your help and I was even going to completely ignore this thread until WBG decided to tag me in their unnecessarily rude comment. My comment wasn't an advertisement for this effort, it was solely meant to be a justification of my edits. —Gazoth (talk) 23:31, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

I am not mistaken. This thread was an appeal for help, even if not by you. - Sitush (talk) 08:31, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Alright, alright. I get it. Nobody was mistaken, but me. Once again, my apologies for starting this. I request the editors to please put this debate to rest now. Thank you. —Sarvatra (talk, contribs) 11:46, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

I recently came across the source Bimal Kanti Paul (2012), "Indian Famines: 1707-1943", in William A. Dando (ed) (ed.), Food and Famine in the 21st Century, ABC-CLIO, pp. 39–57,

Example 1, from the source: "After the Great Famine, a large number of agricultural laborers and handloom weavers in South India immigrated (sic) to British tropical colonies to work as indentured laborers on plantations. The excessive deaths experienced in this famine also neutralized natural population growth in the Bombay and Madras presidencies between the first and second censuses of British India carried out in 1871 and 1881, respectively. The Great Famine was to have a lasting political impact on events in India. Among the British administrators in India who were unsettled by the official reactions to this famine and, in particular, by the stifling of the official debate about the best form of famine relief, were William Wedderbum and A. O. Hume. Less than a decade later, they would found the Indian National Congress and, in turn, influence a generation of nationalists such as Dadabhai Naoroji and Romesh Chunder Dutt, for whom the Great Famine would become a cornerstone to [sic] the economic critique of the British Raj." (Bimal Kanti Paul (2012), Indian Famines: 1707-1943, p.50, volume 2 (Classical Famines))

Contrast with my version at the end of my first edits of 23rd and 24th May 2008 (see here, and scroll to the top to view the date of edit):

After the famine, a large number of agricultural laborers and handloom weavers in

indentured laborers in plantations.^[1] The excessive mortality in the famine also neutralized the natural population growth in the Bombay and Madras presidencies during the decade between the first and second censuses of British India in 1871 and 1881 respectively.^[2]

The Great Famine was to have a lasting political impact on events in India; among the British administrators in India who were unsettled by the official reactions to the famine and, in particular by the stifling of the official debate about the best form of famine relief, were

A. O. Hume.^[3] Less than a decade later, they would found the Indian National Congress and, in turn, influence a generation of nationalists such as Dadabhai Naoroji and Romesh Chunder Dutt for whom the Great Famine would become a cornerstone of the economic critique of the British Raj.^[3]

My version of 24 May 2008 (see here, and scroll above for date of edit):

"The Great Famine was preceded by an intense drought (or "crop failure") in the

indigent.^[8]

We are all familiar with the Wikipedia injunction about discontinuing editing if you are uncomfortable with your words being mangled, stolen, sold, etc., though I can't seem to find the exact quote right now; still, it would have been nice of some attribution had been given to Wikipedia. The irony now is that the copied material is copyrighted in this source—anyone choosing to copy the words again will be violating their copyright not our original. I am used to my words being copied on various India-related websites; even OED copied part of the definition of the British Raj that I had contributed in 2009 or thereabouts. But that was two or three sentences of fine print. These are whole paragraphs of text; they have been published by a fairly reliable publisher. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:41, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

More examples from other Wikipedia Indian famine pages

Discussion

• We are releasing content under CC BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL. Send them a notice for copyright violation, if needed. --Titodutta (talk) 14:46, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
• User:Fowler&fowler, please also add a Template:Backwards copy on the talk page, with appropriate version ID of the wikipedia article that was plagiarised. --DBigXrayᗙ 14:56, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
  • Sadly I've seen an article of ours, or much of it, turn up in an Indian peer-reviewed journal. I didn't know about notices and the template then I'm afraid. Doug Weller talk 15:24, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
    • I've seen this happen with supposedly respectable publishers in the past also. I would be tempted to kick up an almighty fuss with them and with Paul (perhaps even his university). I have a very poor list of dodgy India-related sources in my userspace (User:Sitush/Indic publications of dubious merit) and will add this one to it. To be honest, once an academic has been spotted to plagiarise, all of their works should be considered unreliable here. - Sitush (talk) 16:01, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

@

ABC-CLIO is a fairly respect American publisher of educational material. The editor of the volume is: William A. Dando, whose biography at the end of the book (page 339) says: "Editor William A. Dando is Professor Emeritus, Department of Geography, Geology, and Anthropology, Indiana State University. He has taught courses on the geography of food and famine, as well as on climatology. His interests lie in agriculture, hunger/famine in Russia, climate and food, and application of geotechniques to food, famine, and agricultural problems. He is a member of the Association of American Geographers and the National Council for Geographic Education." The author of the chapter, "Indian famines 1707–1943" is Bimal Kanti Paul, whose biography on pages 339–340, says, "Bimal Kanti Paul is Professor of Geography at Kansas State University, Manhattan, Kansas. He is a hazards geography specialist with additional interests in health and population geography and quantitative analysis. His area specialty is in South Asia. Currently he is the Book Review Editor of the Professional Geographer and Editor of Special Publications of the National Council for Geographic Education. " Fowler&fowler«Talk»

16:08, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Gobsmacked. Email Dando. Or I will if no one else wants to. Doug Weller talk 16:24, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

I would prefer that you do, as you are an admin. But there's more. Each one of the famine articles I wrote in 2008, half dozen or more, seem to have been copied. I'll make a collapsed set of examples of them. Btw, Dando was 54 on September 24, 1988 according to the Grand Forks Herald (North Dakota) on September 24, 1988 (see here and scroll down) That means he is 84 now. He might not be active academically. Writing to the publisher might be better. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 16:38, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

The various editorial boards of which Paul is a member, including in his role as a book reviewer, are going to have a fit of the vapours. - Sitush (talk) 17:04, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

@Fowler&fowler: do you still plan to add the examples? Ping me please so I don't miss your reply, I lost track of this. Doug Weller talk 08:50, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: Sorry for the delay. I will do so in the next few hours. Thanks for the reminder. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:52, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: I've added several more examples from WP India famines of the 19th century. I managed to find an email for Dando. I will send it to you by emai. I don't know if it is a working email, but it is worth a try. Thanks for doing this. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 22:09, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: "Plagiarism" might be too strong a word to level at someone, in the absence of their perspective. I am happy to change it to something like, "Possible infringement of Wikipedia CC BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL" or "Possible Wikipedia copyright violation" Fowler&fowler«Talk» 15:21, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

@Fowler&fowler: I guess there is one big question, which is what do you or we want from this? Only the author of the text has any official standing as they are the copyright holder. I don't think the WMF would want to get involved and if the publisher admitted wrongdoing, that would leave them open to a copyright suit. I think you should template the relevant articles with the backwards template at Wikipedia:Copyright problems. You could ask for more advice at Wikipedia talk:Copyright problems. I've just emailed a university and said I was emailing them just so that they knew that one of their students had, several years ago, copied from one of our articles. If I were in your shoes I think I'd do something like that. Let ABC-CLIO know that there was a problem (saying that you thought you should know but not suggesting any action to take) and maybe emailing Dando saying your were surprised/disappointed/whatever to discover that your work had ended up in his work. Ditto Paul. If it was something online we could expect them to do something about that, but books? Unless you want to sue, I don't think there's much more we can do other than what I've suggested, but of course someone at Talk:Copyright problems might have other ideas. Doug Weller talk 15:41, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

It isn't about damages but rather acknowledgement and integrity. Paul is in a very tight spot because it casts a bad light on everything he has ever done. But, in my opinion, that doesn't mean we should brush it under the carpet. And we most certainly should avoid using Paul as a source anywhere on Wikipedia - we don't use plagiarists, regardless of whether we describe them with precisely that term or with some fudged version. - Sitush (talk) 16:04, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia is copied and pasted without attribution by 100s / 1000s of academics or sources. Typically these are not high quality sources or notable publishers. "ABC-CLIO" is not a serious publisher.

When the Oxford University Press copied and pasted from Wikipedia in one of their medical textbooks that turned out to be news worthy.[1]Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 16:47, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: I'll post on WP:Copyright problems. Let's see what they say. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:09, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

@

People's Republic of Bangladesh). See here, here, and here . But it was a few sentences, and I chalked it to being a form of flattery. It still stands in the OED. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:09, 25 January 2019 (UTC) PS We had a version, which had the extra bit, "when in consequence of (or consequent to) the Indian Rebellion of 1857, the rule of the British East India Company ..." but I can't seem to find it now. Fowler&fowler«Talk»

21:19, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

I use this template Template:Backwards_copy Than one can pull a list here Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 17:04, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

@Doc James: Thanks. Will do. Hadn't realized that the Atlantic link, which I haven't read yet, was about you. Looking forward. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 18:40, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

I've seen official guidance somewhere that the Bharat Ratna, Padma Shri etc are never to be used as a prefix or suffix to a name. Can we add this to our own guidance at

As per this, we shouldn't be using the Bharat Ratna, Padma Shri and such awards as honorific despite a section of the Indian media treating it as such. Regards. << FR ^(mobileUndo) 08:53, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Indeed. I think that is what I used some months ago when I went on a big cleaning=up exercise but I've noticed this last week or so that a lot of mis-use has crept in again. - Sitush (talk) 08:56, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

An Editor has added [2] Urdu scripts on

What happens over a border or the fact of a region being disputed is not in itself a reason to ignore INDICSCRIPTS. However, the consensus only applies to articles solely within the ambit of WP:INDIA, which is unfortunate because I frequently see Urdu scripts being warred over. My larger concern would be that someone pushing that type of thing is quite likely to take a nationalist stance in other edits, which can be highly problematic. - Sitush (talk) 09:49, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

I would use INDICSCRIPTS to counter non-English scripts in only some Kashmir-related articles. The logic runs along the following lines: If there is a policy about not using Indic scripts in India-related articles, then their use would be problematic in articles about larger regions, such as Kashmir, which contain the domain of an India-related article as a major geographic or ethnic stake holder. The policy would not apply to Azad Kashmir or Aksai Chin or K2 or Gilgit and so forth, that lie outside the territory of Indian control. (It is true that Kashmir is disputed territory, one in which India's sovereignty over its state of J&K remains formally unrecognized by the major powers, with the possible exception of Russia. But Indian control has now lasted 70 years; it is more than just temporary occupation.) Arunachal Pradesh, on the other hand, does not have the status of a major dispute such as Kashmir. I would use INDICSCRIPTS there. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 12:56, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Hello, please check this script User:Titodutta/scripts/SearchHelper.js, to install on your Special:MyPage/common.js use please use: importScript('User:Titodutta/scripts/SearchHelper.js'); Writ Keeper created Google search script. The script adds several quick search options, see screenshot, how it looks. Please comment or suggest if any other search option is needed. --Titodutta (talk) 09:29, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

I really like it, especially the Indian newspaper search. << FR ^(mobileUndo) 10:45, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Please consider commenting at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aziz Bagh (2nd nomination). --Doncram (talk) 18:53, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

A proposal has been made to apply the equivalent of

Splitting is fine in theory but often unnecessary because the articles do in fact address the two situation (village and mandal). I certainly wouldn't worry about it if the purpose is primarily to help out Wikidata - there are much more pressing issues here than fixing their mess. For example, vast numbers of Indian village articles are still unsourced, unreliably sourced and full of puffery. Helping out Wikidata isn't, to the best of my knowledge, even a policy. - Sitush (talk) 05:22, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

@Sitush: Thanks for the response. I agree that helping out Wikidata isn't a policy. But I am worried because I do contribute to Wikidata also. However, my primary intention is not that. Keeping the Wikidata part aside; Yes, the articles "address the two situation", but I don't think it will be practicable in the long run, for two reasons. It will be confusing for readers, atleast some of them, because they're two different entities (village and mandal). The body of the article seems to club info of both, without much clarification. It might be complicated for editors as well, to put information in such a way they represent both. Considering the above mentioned example, there is a line "Kerimeri is located at 19.4333°N 79.0500°E", this points to the village "Kerimeri", but not the mandal. Another line "villages in Kerameri mandal include ...." here it speaks about the mandal. The transport information is again to the village but not the mandal, because mandal is a group of villages. Similar confusion exists when we add info about population, area, postal code etc. These values are different for both. Also having it this way, will fail consistency. Only the articles created by this user (may be some others who created following him) are in this style. But the all the later creations have separate articles for village and mandal. For example, Vemuru mandal and Vemuru, Thullur mandal and Thullur. KCVelaga (talk) 07:57, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Yes, the coordinate and transport issues etc are valid concerns, although they could still be wrapped in a single article. Let's see what others think. - Sitush (talk) 08:02, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

I'd strip the mandal content, not the village. With some exceptions, mandal articles are fairly useless to readers. They offer less insight than village articles, and any important subjects are reiterated or covered at a higher district or state level. I wouldn't be too worried about creating new articles for them, unless you really wanted to. If you

split the content, that would take forever. You've probably realised that if all 200 articles were created by the same editor, they will have strings of text in common. Running AWB through the list to strip the mandal content may be possible. Once that content is gone, you could cleanly fix the ledes by stripping "and a mandal" from them. Cesdeva ^(talk)

16:50, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

@Cesdeva: Thanks for the response. What you said makes sense to me. I use AWB, but mostly for patrolling every now and then, but I am not an expert with it. Some articles were created by other users as well. @Titodutta: will it be possible to get a list of all such articles? Basically all the articles having such strings. Pinging @Vin09 and IM3847: as they work with geography related articles of Andhra Pradesh and Telangana extensively. KCVelaga (talk) 05:15, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

So, as Cesdeva suggested, I'll be stripping of the mandal content. In most of the articles, the mandal content is just the word "mandal" or a line about it. The readership for villages is more than for mandal. But if there is an exceptional case, like if we have impressive content about the mandal and less content about the village, I'll be stripping of the village content and making it a mandal article. Please feel free to revert and start a discussion on the talk page if it is needed. KCVelaga (talk) 17:43, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

That seems like a good way forward. - Sitush (talk) 17:57, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Is Tamil Nadu Vanniyar Public Properties Welfare Board a notable governmental department? How far down the bureaucratic line do we usually go? - Sitush (talk) 08:27, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

Per ToI says there is a statute - Tamil Nadu Vanniyakula Kshatriya Public Trusts and Endowments (Protection and Maintenance) Act, 2018 - for the same and is along the lines of Wakf Board. Srikanth (Logic) 03:57, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi friends, the Wikipedia Reference Desk has received a query about the history of the location of the statue of Rafi Ahmed Kidwai in Delhi. If anyone can help, please answer at the Reference Desk. With thanks!!70.67.193.176 (talk) 16:10, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

Hello, some time ago we discussed fixing YuviPanda's assessment bar. With the support of IndicTech-Com and specially User:Jayprakash12345, some changes are made and a temporary version of the fixed script may be seen at: User:Titodutta/scripts/AssessmentBar.js.
I am not confident that the script is fixed, because I almost never used this script (or I don't remember). Anyone who remembers all the features of this script, please comment. perhaps User:AshLin, User:BPositive?--Titodutta (talk) 06:45, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

What was this intended for? I vaguely remember some attempt to add project banners to a swathe of unassessed India-related articles but it is years ago. I think someone somehow worked out how many relevant articles lacked the India Project banner and came here asking could the situation be fixed. - Sitush (talk) 16:16, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

Some editors may have used it at Tag & Assess 2014. There's a documentation page here, from 2012, which I think details its functionality. Cesdeva ^(talk) 17:54, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

That guide was written by me during the first Tag & Assess, post the first WikiIndia Conference. We tried using in 2014 but it was not functional at that time. AshLin (talk) 14:58, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

That was it! Thanks to you both. A snappy name but I couldn't remember it. Have you had chance to look at it now, AshLin? Does it seem to be any more functional than in 2014, bearing in mind what Tito says above. - Sitush (talk) 15:08, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

• The assess part is working. "Next article" contacts an external site for a randomiser. The script is fixed, but we don't have access to the site (or idea about its code). --Titodutta (talk) 22:20, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

I deployed another random unassessed article on glitch using a similar

WP:PETSCAN query, can you please replace the URL and try. For reference the old code is on github and some documentation at User:YuviPanda/Madam_Hut and needs some refactoring should it be made to work. Srikanth (Logic

) 10:28, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Ajf773 has deleted information about police station and fire station from the Baranagar page noting Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a directory.The point made was “every city has at least one police and fire station, what makes these ones so special”.I had undone the deletion with the argument, “There is a gulf of difference between the advanced countries and backward countries. Here administrative and civic facilities are limited and so are important. The information provided here is basic and minimum.” These have again been deleted. Drmies, an admin, deleted the information, “The headquarters of Ketugram II CD Block are located at Gangatikuri” from the Gangatikuri page with the comment “so?”. I have placed back the material with a note on the talk page of Gangatikuri, “CD block HQ … so? Well, CD blocks are large development administrative areas in the post-colonial era. The headquarters of each such area is an important centre where administrative offices and other facilities are located. In extensive agricultural areas, these small adiminstrative locations are in focus” It is still there. I have been adding content/ information about community development blocks, subdivision etc, with the focus mainly on rural areas. Recently, I have also started working on town/ village pages. I work mostly on pages related to Wet Bengal and the surrounding areas. With this NOT A DIRECTORY issue, hundreds of pages put up by me and others, will get affected. Pages with information about police stations, headquarters of community development blocks, probably even municipalities, other civic bodies, educational institutions and so on will get affected. Such deletions will make a mess of the pages. Please have a look at one of my more recent community development block page and a village page – Goalpokhar I and Kushmandi, Dakshin Dinajpur. These are different, in a long way, from what is published about the more developed countries. With all the push for standardisation and globalisation, I am doubtful about who will come from where and what will remain of such pages. Is it worth spending all the time and effort? I still have the heart to say, Cheers, - Chandan Guha (talk) 01:27, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

• If a thing is important one would expect secondary sources to say so. BTW these were edits from two years ago. Drmies (talk) 01:32, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

• Thanks, sir, for your quick response. I have added another reference in the Gangatikuri page. I will subsequently add it in other similar pages. It is that demand for secondary sources that frightens me. I have spent hours searching for sources. For some community development block pages in Jharkhand, I am unable to get the area of that block in government websites and the demand is for secondary sources. It is really frightening. Thanks once again. - Chandan Guha (talk) 02:08, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Please note that scheduled to appear on Wikipedia's Community portal in the "Today's articles for improvement" section for one week, beginning today. Everyone is encouraged to collaborate to improve the article. Thanks, and happy editing! Delivered by — MusikBot talk 00:05, 11 February 2019 (UTC) on behalf of the TAFI team

I have listed this article at PR as I want any potential issue to be solved before I take it to FAC. I hope someone regularly monitoring this page will read this and post comments. --Kailash29792 (talk) 06:59, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

◆◆Durganagar, and Laketown location is same details. But Laketown page wikipedia name is Laketown, Kolkata . Kindly see the page :-https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Town,_Kolkata .So at this point if Laketown page main name is Laketown , Kolkata possible, so why can not possible for Durganagar page name as Durganagar, Kolkata ? ◆◆A new person name Jeet Dev remove previous Durganagar, Kolkata page Information. Today i again write previous page information of Durganagar, Kolkata. About 4 months ago of date 4 October 2018 time 8:23 the page information i put and you verified it. But recent 2 days a person name jeet dev remove the all previous page information which information is no need for this page as compare previous information. Today again jeet dev remove all previous page information so i again put previous page information because it is better from jeet dev information. So you Kindly take a action jeet dev which information is no good than previous information which edit 4 months ago. The previous 4 month's edit information is better than jeet dev information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AmitMondal1299 (talk • contribs) 20:01, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Washim#Basim. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:44, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

The 800 pound gorilla in Washim is that it has suspected copyright violations with 97.4% confidence. (See its talk page.) The sections I checked had been copied verbatim from the Maharashtra State Gazeteer, 1977. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 18:22, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Hello, I came across this user's contributions recently, and would like someone to take a look. Examples below:

• 13:39, 17 February 2019
• 17:24, 17 February 2019
• 17:07, 17 February 2019

I have left a message on his talk page and directed his attention to this discussion thread. — Nearly Headless Nick {c} 19:19, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi all, at Uri: The Surgical Strike I've seen Azad Kashmir get changed a couple of times to Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. Yes, I'm aware this is a sensitive area, which is why I'm here to ask if there is an agreed-upon way to handle this, so as not to run afoul of ArbCom determinations. Thoughts? The Wikipedia article on the region points to Azad Kashmir, so that would seem to be the "preferred" designation, but feedback is appreciated. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:13, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

It is very simple: if you are going to use, "Jammu and Kashmir" for the Indian state, then you have to use "Azad Kashmir, " Gilgit-Baltistan" for the corresponding Pakistani-administered regions. "Pakistan Occupied Kashmir" or "Indian Occupied Kashmir" would be POV. "Pakistan administered/controlled Kashmir" and "India(n) administered/controlled Kashmir," applied equally, would be the corresponding more neutral usage. I don't know anything about an ArbCom decision, but I'd be surprised if they could come up with anything other than the formulation above. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 17:48, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Consensus is for Jammu and Kashmir and Azad Kashmir; excluding exceptional cases (which this ain't). ∯WBG^converse 18:02, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

• I would have agreed with Fowler and WBG if this was a Geographic article but this is not, it is a movie article.
  Pakistan Occupied Kashmir clarifies this anyway, so this is not a big question of renaming an article. It is a known fact that Santa Claus and Atlantis island don't exist. But there is absolutely no need to clarify that they don't exist in every movie article plot that uses these terms.--DBigXrayᗙ
  04:48, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

• In a direct quote, yes. So, if we were directly quoting a character in the movie, and added, "The major general said, 'I propose that we go into Pakistan Occupied Kashmir tonight.' " that would be OK. But in reported speech we would have to use a neutral word: "The major general proposed that they go into Pakistan Administered/Controlled Kashmir that night." This is because in the second instance we are writing for the Wikipedia readership Fowler&fowler«Talk» 09:42, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

• User:Fowler&fowler Thanks for the kind comments, yes the plot was written in reported speech. It will be acceptable to me if we use "Pakistan administered Kashmir" as a more neutral option as compared to "Pakistan Occupied Kashmir" or POK that is actually used in the movie. I will update the article plot with this term if you or others have no more objections. --DBigXrayᗙ 10:09, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

• Thanks everybody. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:58, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

My personal observation is that most of the private engineering colleges (which have been mushrooming like anything in the last decade or so) does not get any significant coverage in more than 75-80% of cases. The same about secondary schools, roughly. Always almost; these articles attract a constant flux of promo-spam and it's difficult to distinguish between an encyclopedic article and a brochure.

I have thus nominated

I will be grateful, if other members of this project let their views known here and/or over the AfD. About whether I was correct in my hypothesis that these colleges usually never manage to garner any non-advertorial significant coverage (and that it's not our inability to access regional sources; which's affecting the issue) and whether routine private colleges (which does not pass GNG in the most loosest of interpretations) need be deleted. And anything else.∯WBG^converse 15:26, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your observations, it is indeed often the case that these articles attract spam. A case-by-case handling of the matter, however, might be more pertinent than a reaction based on a blanket assessment that such institutions usually never manage to attain

notability (and I paraphrase you). Notability requires third-party sourcing, which the case in question clearly seems to lack. Send similar articles that are lacking to AfD. MikeLynch (talk

) 18:01, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

MikeLynch, I appreciate your viewpoint (and it's quite natural to think so). But, regrettably some users believe that schools et al are default notable (which may be true in USA, UK et al). See this discussion for the broader locus, which has continued as usual at AfDs.

The Gnome might be able to surmise the situation, more aptly. ∯WBG^converse 18:37, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Greetings,

WP:NOTHARMINGANYONE, or Wikipedia should be about everything) are, effectively, endorsed and accepted by the community. Take care. -The Gnome (talk

) 12:51, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

WP:NSCHOOL states : All universities, colleges and schools, including high schools, middle schools, primary (elementary) schools, and schools that only provide a support to mainstream education must satisfy either this guideline (WP:ORG) or the general notability guideline, or both. No need to add emphasis anywhere. -The Gnome (talk

) 12:51, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

All this reminded me of a post I had made here some seven years ago, which I just managed to retrieve. It is about historic high schools in India. The old high schools pages listed in the post are only in slightly better state (of readability and comprehensiveness) than they were then. Yet we are spending our time and attention on the brand new ones. But then this is par for the course in India-related topics: people prefer to make new pages, even if they are listy stubs of a few lines, than develop existing pages into readable articles. Sigh. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:02, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

I just discovered a better list of old high schools in Category:Schools_in_Colonial_India. For anyone looking to clean up old articles, the pages in this list might be a good place to begin. Some of them might be well developed, but plenty are not. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:12, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

The article 2016 Uri attack has seen a flood of IP edits over the last few months that seem to have completely changed the meaning of parts of the article. At least half of these edits have to be vandalism, but I honestly have no idea which version of the article is the last good one, or which intermediate edits may be salvageable. Many edits and series of edits have been reverted, but I strongly suspect these reverts have left older vandalism untouched. I think the article could really use review, top to bottom, by someone familiar with this topic area. Thanks. Someguy1221 (talk) 05:49, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#India/Pakistan. DBigXrayᗙ 11:25, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

• Y
  talk
  ) 11:05, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

I have nominated this article about a place called Gaur Niwas in Dehradun for deletion.You are welcome to join the discussion. If someone can help me find references, that would be of great help.--DreamLinker (talk) 15:50, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello WPI. I've just stumbled across recent edits to Punjabi script. At the moment, the article states that:

Punjabi (پن٘جابی) is a Perso-Arabic alphabet with eight new alphabets(ٻ ڄ ݙ ݢ ڳ ݨ ݪ ݢ‬) along with 39 urdu alphabets developed by Punjabi Language Acticists in Punjab, Pakistan to write the Punjabi language. It is generally written in the Nastaʿlīq calligraphic hand. Punjabi Script^[1] is one of three scripts used for Punjabi, the others being Gurmukhi and Shahmukhi^[2].

It is also used as the alphabet to write the Pothohari, Hindko and Saraiki Dialect. Punjabi script and Shahmukhi is written from right to left, while Gurmukhi is written from left to right..

It is also used as the alphabet to write the Pothohari, Hindko and Saraiki Dialect. Punjabi script and Shahmukhi is written from right to left, while Gurmukhi is written from left to right.

This article was originally created in 2011 by

I suspect this is part of the POV battle over whether

Saraikistan.) The user seems to be trying to change the Saraiki alphabet to the 'Punjabi script'. User is also changing mentions of Saraiki to 'dialect'. But even if we all agree that Saraiki *is* a dialect of Punjabi, its alphabet is still its alphabet. AFAICT, it isn't used to write other 'dialects' of Punjabi. So I think a mass revert of all this users edits is in order (this is the only topic they seem to be working on), and if needed a discussion could be opened as to whether Saraiki is a 'language' or a 'dialect'. BTW, the user knows their way around WP, e.g. I also reverted their changes to Template:Arabic-script sidebar

, so they're not a newbie. If they become a problem, we might want to check if they're a sock from an old edit-war.

Regardless, IMO this name should be a rd to

Italian alphabet are both applications of the Latin script. Usage in the lit is a bit inconsistent, but that's a reasonable approach. In this case, Gurmukhi is a script designed for Punjabi, so it's the only Punjabi script. Shahmukhi is not a distinct script, but a Punjabi alphabet based on the Arabic script. We might want to rd to Punjabi alphabet

instead, but the hat notes should cover things.

— kwami (talk) 20:18, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

@kwamikagami bro for you kind information, Punjabi in 11th century was firstly written by Baba fareed in Perso-Arabic script, and gurmukhi was developed in 16th century, so old and original script is perso-arabic and this script is used by 100 million punjabis in pakistan while gurmukhi by only 27 million.

In general, there are 5-6 writing system for punjabi language and two major are Shahmukhi and Gurmukhi. Gurmukhi is used in india while shahmukhi in pakistan. Shahmukhi can write only majhi/lahori dialect, therefore for the unity of all dialects of Punjabi, in pakistan a new script was developed and the name of script is Punjabi/punjabi script. More info is in link >>https://www.omniglot.com/conscripts/punjabi.htm Thats why i created the page, Punjabi Script but wikipdia members reverted and asked me for discussion. So thats why i am telling details here. I request wikipedia administrators to publish the page Punjabi scipt or Punjabi Alphabets which will explain this script. still if you have any question then let me know. more source http://saanjo.com/1625-2/

• Hello, should we do this? Indian Collaboration of the Month has been a fantastic initiative, in my opinion. I am personally Ok to work any article the community thinks should be a collaboration of the month. Suggestions and comments please. --Titodutta (talk) 19:18, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

• I welcome the idea, but my own time is quite limited, and I prefer to focus on topics I'm already familiar with; so I wouldn't be much help here, I'm afraid. Vanamonde (Talk) 19:44, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
• I support the idea with the caveat that our track record on making this work is actually quite poor. The sad truth is that India articles are either contentious or on topics that don't excite anyone. But, we shouldn't give up so go for it and I'll be happy to contribute. --regentspark (comment) 20:30, 27 February 2019 (UTC)
• I don't have time myself, but I can give you my personal opinion about collaborative writing born of my WP experience, if I may be allowed to be presumptuous. Collaboration works better for topics about things or geography than for those about people or history. If, however, the choice has to be in the latter group (i.e. people or history), it works better for making small improvements in a larger class of articles than for making major improvements in one article. For that reason, it works better for improving stubs, C or B class articles than for fine honing more developed articles. The returns on the time invested are much greater in the former case, and the likelihood of burnout is less. Luckily there is a huge backlog of entire classes of India-related articles that are in poor shape. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 01:19, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
• A welcome initiative, Tito! I am not too active on wikipedia at the moment (seems to be an epidemic amongst the old-timers ;-)) but I'll at least try to help around the edges even if it is just with copy-editing and formatting gruntwork. Abecedare (talk) 02:35, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
• Much in articles I've encountered has subsequently been taken out for lack of cited sources. See the article on Badlapur, Maharashtra before a wave of deletionist fervor swept so much away. Some of what was there was excessive, but much wasn't. Some of what was taken out was notable (e.g. the three schools with blue links that were removed, along with the entire Education secton), and sources should have easily been found for some of the rest. I've encountered other similar articles, and there may be many others. I suggest that people could be on the lookout for such articles to rescue, where so much of the work has already been done. Dhtwiki (talk) 17:10, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

• • I have noted down your suggestions. Today is 6 March, perhaps we can start this now, and have the CoTM for the month of April? --Titodutta (talk) 20:00, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for starting this discussion. I like the idea in general, but I am a bit concerned about how we should be doing this. I agree with some of the comments above. I prefer working on articles related to my area of interest (military history) than any other any other topic. I will do minor fixes, but wouldn't be interested in the content itself. Having said that, I really like the idea, but a process needs to be designed to keep this working. It can be INCOTM, or some way other. I am not able to suggest a perfect model now, but would like to hear opinion from others (shoud we send a mass message to members?). Lastly, I believe that WikiProject Military History's contest model (

WP:MILCON) is a good one to explore. KCVelaga (talk

) 11:27, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) was recently fully protected because of POV pushing an edit warring. The fight continues in the form of edit requests on the talk page. I am completely ignorant about anything having to do with the military of Pakistan and India other than hoping that they don't nuke each other, so I would really appreciate it if someone else would look at the page and evaluate the edit requests. Thanks! --Guy Macon (talk) 15:08, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Oh wow. Full protection!

talk

) 15:22, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

...and we have had one editor blocked and another who unwatched the page, claiming that an ordinary editor asking him to stop edit warring equals an administrator forbidding him from wirting anything.

The talk page is now filled with multiple edit requests asking us to keep what Pakistan says happened and delete what India says happened. Needless to say, when two nations disagree about what happened, we should describe what each side claims, maintaining a

WP:NPOV, and avoid Wikipedia saying or implying that one side is right and one side is wrong. If a recognized independent expert (and no, I don't mean some random person on Twitter) says that one side is right and one side is wrong we should also report what that expert said. If anyone here is willing to look at the page and help me sort out who the reliable sources are, I would greatly appreciate it. --Guy Macon (talk

) 16:21, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

• Guy Macon more power to you. I hope your hopes succeed. I will try and share my thoughts on the reliable sources.--DBigXrayᗙ 18:14, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Is the creation of redirects of the type City, District okay ? << FR ^(mobileUndo) 06:48, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Where can I find the new version of the assessment bar? Thanks in advance AshLin (talk) 08:42, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

AshLin this archived thread may be what you want. << FR ^(mobileUndo) 12:42, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! :) FR30799386 AshLin (talk) 12:45, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Can someone please sort out the wikitext for the section above. The transclusion is defective & no edit button appears for the Discussion section.— Preceding unsigned comment added by AshLin (talk • contribs) 14:40, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Americans#American expats in India . RightCowLeftCoast (Moo) 01:42, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Could someone from WP:INDIA take a look at

• I too am not seeing the problem here. The
  often talked about as a Central Indian state in reliable sources that can be added to the lede. Abecedare (talk
  ) 16:35, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

• I want to restore the article to before what I consider the disruptive change. This would make it easier to review references with the object of moving them rather than wholesale deletion, even if consensus calls for fewer references and simplified text in the lead. I believe that's what's meant by returning to the status quo, not necessarily being consistent with other articles or encyclopedias, but what has been in place on this article for some time. BTW, the references are not just governmental ones. More than half are from Reuters, The Times of India (2), and Firstpost. The double regional allegiance of Bihar isn't just a matter of governmental whim but historical, as Bihar is linguistically allied with Uttar Pradesh, rather than West Bengal, although Bihar was once part of the Bengal Presidency. Dhtwiki (talk) 22:47, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
• My suggestions/concerns -

1. If by adding govt. sources or any press/news (historic/modern) references makes the lead confusing because of multiple definitions, then I would suggest we remove them altogether from the lead. Instead use geographical term as in Goa, Gujarat articles which mentions "Goa is a state on the western cost of India within the coastal region known as the Konkan" or "Gujarat is a state on the western coast of India with a coastline of 1,600 km" respectively. That is make the lead geography based. In that way we can say "Uttar Pradesh is a state on the upper and middle Gangetic plains of north-central part of India, etc etc" with the north-central part taken from Britannica. And the "part" part will be important. That way it will be easier for a reader to approximate the geographical location/span of Uttar Pradesh. Mentioning only "north" would not demark it from bonafide northern states like J & K, Himachal, Punjab, etc which are also categorized as such by Indian govt.
2. Abecedare, As far as I know Uttar Pradesh is considered to be part of "central India" by two institutes, The Zonal councils of Ministry of Home Affairs (India) and Ministry of Minority Affairs and "north-central" by Ministry of Culture (India) but Geological Survey considers it as "northern Indian". So there are far less number of govt. sources that consider it "northern India". Even Britannica considers it as a "north-central" Indian state.
3. Dhtwiki, Bihar also has languages like Maithili and Angika which are very much related to Bengali through script and all even if you do not consider Bhojpuri as an Eastern Indic language which it is. Not to mention, there are press articles which classify Gujarat and West Bengal as "north Indian" states as well. Bihar Govt itself considers it to be an "Eastern State" as do the Ministry of Culture (India), Ministry of Home Affairs (India) and Geological Survey. Ministry of Minority Affairs considers it "central" though. If only one definition is to be kept then Bihar should be considered "eastern Indian" and there are a lot of news articles also which support it as an eastern state including Britannica.
4. Shouldn't govt definitions, Central or State, be included in the article? Atleast in the body. States are political entities, aren't they?

- Fylindfotberserk (talk) 11:25, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: To address a couple of points you raise:

• IMO, this source should be represented as "UP is included in the Central Zonal Council for settling inter-state disputes" rather than "the Ministry of Home Affairs regards UP as a Central State". Ditto for the dozens or possibly hundreds of such statutory bodies that group the states in different ways for administrative purposes.
• On a positive note: if changing "is in North India" to "is in the Northern part of India" helps resolve the dispute, that is perfectly fine with me since, at least in my reading, the two are essentially equivalent in this context.
• More broadly: Just like
  South East Asia etc, North India, East India... are loose context-dependent terms whose amorphousness is best addressed in the dedicated articles on the topic instead of in the lede sentences of the state articles. For the latter, I recommend, (1) preserving the status-quo that simply lists the most common indicator, or (2) your "...X part of India" suggestion, or (3) for really contentious cases, adding a footnote along the lines "sometimes the state is classified as in X India,^[1] or in Y India.^[2]" in that order of preference. Abecedare (talk
  ) 21:26, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

@Abecedare:,

• I totally agree with your first point. No reason to mention the Ministry of Home Affairs.
• On top of the "part" thing, I would suggest that we frame it like- "is in the north-central part of India" since north-central will be more precise geographically and I wouldn't recommend wikilinking the regions because those articles rely on govt sources quite much. The Britannica article on Maharashtra is quite precise from a neutral point of view. It writes : "Maharashtra, state of India, occupying a substantial portion of the Deccan plateau in the western peninsular part of the subcontinent". It mentions 'western' but since Deccan also extends upto central part of India, it covers the fact that a good portion of Maharashtra is in central India as well. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:40, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Works for me. Will let others weigh in. Abecedare (talk) 01:19, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

@Abecedare:, 10 days passed. Probably I should edit the Uttar Pradesh and Maharashtra articles as discussed here. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:15, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: I think it would be fine to make the changes. If anyone objects, they can always revert and continue the discussion here or on the articles' talkpages. Abecedare (talk) 18:12, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

@Abecedare: "Deccan" means southern,so it does not cover the fact that Maharashtra is also spanning central India. And everybody does not know meaning of Deccan. Why don't we say directly central and south? BelgaumGoan (talk) 14:32, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

@Abecedare: I've edited the Uttar Pradesh and Maharashtra articles accordingly. Take a look. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:40, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Distinct improvement IMO. I particularly like that the edit removed the multiple-citations from the lede sentence since whenever I see that on wikipedia I imagine "somebody is saying something controversial and trying to force their way through by

ref-bombing" rather than "lots of citations. must be really true". Abecedare (talk

) 19:06, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

I think you have to say that Maharashtra is spanning western,central and south India. Its not just a govt defn. I also think so because of culture ethnicity, general beliefs and geography. Maharashtra is very big state and different parts have different tendencies..we can't say that Vidharbha, Amravati,Marathwada and many areas feel like western coastal. In history, British times, big parts of Maharashtra are in Central Provinces and Hyderabad State,and in history many empires ruled Maharashtra which were from south. Deccan area spans most of maharashtra and it translates to "southern" and this region is always associated with southern states.And Maharashtra Karnataka have similar cultures. You wrote in the article that it's part of deccan, isn't it more useful to say in English it is southern(everybody does not know the meaning of dakshin)? This has a long legacy and so it should not be removed. It is hard to agree with putting Maharashtra in one region,so can't you put more than one region? You don't have to write all definitions,but short phrase like "western,central and southern" or "southwest-central" is short and does not cause confusion for reader. What do you think.BelgaumGoan (talk) 23:55, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

@Abecedare: Thanks and I agree that refbombing is a part of POV pushing but since I'm inclusionist by nature, I typically do not delete relevant sources but try to balance it out by deleting overlinks and putting sources where it is due till we reach a consensus like in this case.

@BelgaumGoan: Sorry I forgot to invite you to this discussion. Anyway, we have agreed to neither include each and every geo-political definition nor to put a specific definition especially for larger states, but to have generalized description in the opening sentence, I believe this :- "..is a state in the western peninsular region of India occupying a substantial portion of the Deccan plateau." encompasses the "western,central and southern" thing. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:51, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk: thank you,but not everybody understands translation of "deccan". I think you should be more clear (saying in english) it expands both western,southern territories. Southern (english) vs deccan (sanskrit) makes it more clear to larger audience. and in that statement, ..is a state in the western peninsular region of India occupying a substantial portion of the Deccan plateau." you didn't say maharashtra also expands to part of central India. For example,Vidharbha is large part of maharashtra similar to Madhya pradesh and it was once considered Central Provinces. BelgaumGoan (talk) 13:39, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

I understand but as I had already explained that few posts above, the peninsular India covers central and southern part of the country, when you mention "western peninsular region" it covers the western, central and southern aspects of Maharashtra nicely. It is much better than mentioning only "western India". - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:35, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk:"Peninsular" does not mean geographical direction like South or Central.peninsular means surrounded by water.I think you have say directly south or Central rather than say peninsular. BelgaumGoan (talk) 03:49, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Indian peninsula is in the "southern direction" just like Italian peninsula is in the south. I believe most readers already know that. We have agreed to put a broader geographic definition to give a rough idea of it's location and extent in the opening sentence rather a single "geographic direction" or "multiple direction" which are both vague and confusing. More specifics are provided in the following texts and coordinates are also given in the infobox. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:51, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

@Fylindfotberserk:I know India's peninsula is in south so it automatically implies that peninsular means south. But I am basically saying why do we need to indirectly suggest that it is south, rather than directly saying it is south? It will be clearer if you said south. And, why is "peninsular" more broad than saying "south"? Then following same logic, why don't we say "bounded by Arabian sea" instead of "Western" (since Arabian sea is toward west of India, it automatically implies western). And,nothing in the lead sentence implied "central" (also one of Maharashtra geography definitions), "deccan and peninsular" just covers southern. BelgaumGoan (talk) 14:50, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

@AshLin:,@Kautilya3:,@Gotitbro:,@Dhtwiki:, please can you look at my comments? I want to discuss this. Thank you. BelgaumGoan (talk) 00:58, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Fylindfotberserk: The Agra province, initially a Mughal subah, then part of Ceded and Conquered Provinces, then of North-Western Provinces, then United Provinces of Agra and Oudh defined the southern boundaries of what in the 1950 became Uttar Pradesh. What does Government of India terminology have to do with idiomatic English? I say that as someone who created the Agra Province, Ceded and Conquered Provinces, and North-Western Provinces pages long ago, pages that use the term "northern India." How then, and by what tectonic shift in the English language, did regions that were in northern India, became north-central? I have accordingly changed the lead sentence in Uttar Pradesh back to reflecting "northern India." I don't see you have consensus here for whatever it is you are attempting to do. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 10:57, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

@Fowler&fowler: Just because you have created those articles doesn't mean that Uttar Pradesh is a strictly northern Indian state. Geographically it can never be compared to bonafide northern states like Jammu and Kashmir or Punjab. It covers substantial part of central India as well which is why most Government of India sources classify it under "Central" or "North-Central" zones. As far as consensus is concerned, Abecedare has agreed to it. And "north-central" is taken from Uttar-Pradesh at the Encyclopædia Britannica article which in its "mangled English" writes, Uttar Pradesh, the most populous and fourth largest state of India. It lies in the north-central part of the country.. According to some editors here, Britannica is a guideline to be followed. On a similar note tell me by what tectonic shift in the English language (or is it German), the Germany article lede mentions it to be ... a country in Central and Western Europe? Why not any specific location? Pinging @Abecedare: - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:12, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

@

@Fowler&fowler: Fair enough. I'm not a proponent of using multi-region definitions either and have reverted those kind of edits in the past. But after people started citing govt. sources, books, etc., I started taking them seriously. Anyway, it seems we have a consensus now which is why I posted the issue here. Nice talking to you sir. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 18:50, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

There is an RfC on whether all Wikipedia categories should use the spelling "organization" (regardless of the respective country) taking place here. Number 57 19:27, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Carnatic music is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Carnatic music until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 06:30, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Indore is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Indore until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 07:10, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Please give your input on changing History of domes in South Asia to History of Indo-Islamic domes on Talk:History of domes in South Asia#Change name to History of Indo-Islamic domes. Thank you! (Highpeaks35 (talk) 01:36, 25 April 2019 (UTC))

Can someone cleanup all links under Malabar#India? Many Wikipedians are confused on which articles to edit? Some edit the wrong Malabar article and cause confusion on what the article as a whole is talking about. Malabar articles need to be reviewed and here needs to be wider consensus on the topics of Malabar in India. I hope for cleanup relating to these articles so readers are not confused.Manabimasu (talk) 03:00, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

I'd like to invite members of this project to familiarise themselves with

Please learn more about this program and apply to participate or encourage the deserving candidates from your community to do so. Regards. -- Tito (CIS-A2K), sent using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:07, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

I've deleted earlier versions twice as pure copyvio. I've had to delete some of this for the same reason. I've posted some of my concerns to Talk:Deo Sun Temple but it still needs a lot of work. Eg the lead, which I haven't touched:

" Deo Sun Temple, Devark Temple, Deo Surya Mandir is a 8th-century CE sun temple at

The temple definitely needs an article and deserves something much better than this. It even has a section heading "cculpture". Doug Weller talk 15:07, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi all, recently I've encountered a problematic user who was adding a ton of poorly conceived honorifics to various biographical folk, and then he did weird stuff like move "MGR Memorial" to "Bharat Ratna Puratchi Thalaivar Dr.MGR and Puratchi Thalaivi Amma Selvi J Jayalalithaa Memorial" as if anyone would ever type that into a search engine. (See this) Another thing he did was move

@

WP:COMMONNAME. Gazoth (talk

) 19:22, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

@

MGR Memorial article to your watchlist, please? I'm still having a little trouble--in this edit, an IP editor (who is probably the problematic editor making changes while logged out) has added "Bharat Ratna Puratchi Thalaivar Dr.MGR and Puratchi Thalaivi Amma Selvi J Jayalalithaa Memorial" as the official name of the memorial. He added this Dec 2016 reference, which only supports "Bharat Ratna Dr.MGR and Jayalalithaa" as the proposed name. I also see this article, which indicates that the proposed name was supposed to be "Dr Puratchi Thalaivar MGR and Puratchi Thalaivi Amma Selvi J Jayalalithaa Memorial", which is closer to what the user is claiming, although in his version, the "Dr." comes before MGR. So if you or anybody could help me figure out what the correct official name is, I'd be appreciative. Thanks! Cyphoidbomb (talk

) 16:22, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

And there's this source, which says the name is "Bharat Ratna Dr Puratchi Thalaivar MGR and Puratchi Thalaivi Amma Selvi Jayalalithaa memorial". Confusing. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 16:26, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Cyphoidbomb, I have reverted the edit since it only talks about future plans to rename the memorial. If it was actually renamed, there would be news articles about it. Since are only news articles about proposed names, it looks like the renaming hasn't happened yet. —Gazoth (talk) 18:11, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Please participate in a

Anyone familiar with Korakkar? There have been some contributions since my last edit there that have been going back and forth a bit and I'm not sure what is verified and what is not. - Sitush (talk) 11:13, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Mains electricity describes what this is called in the US, UK, and Canada, but not India. It would be nice if folks more familiar with Indian English could add a note explaining that. I'm also interested to know if there's a single term that would be intelligible globally, as "mains electricity" is apparently unfamiliar to many Americans. So if it's known by more than one term in Indian English, that would be very helpful to know. Thanks! -- Beland (talk) 01:11, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Not sure how many Americans will know "mains electricity." Most, however, will understand "power supply." They will likely know "electric mains," but as the connection (now mostly underground) that brings the power supply to their home. Indian English, I'll have to look into it. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:39, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

OR: 'Mains electricity' (sometimes shortened to 'mains') is a recognized term in India (eg, [6], [7]) although most people colloquially refer to it as just 'electricity', 'electricity supply' or even 'light'. Abecedare (talk

) 14:10, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

(

Electric grid but will suspect that something more complicated is meant. One option for a single term might be "Main power supply." A cursory look at some Indian sites yields a familiarity with that term among them, as it does on the NY Times, the Washington Post, The Guardian, Sydney Morning Herald, but there is the danger of "main" being interpreted as an adjective, as in this report from the Toronto Star: "The airport's main power supply comes from the city's electrical grid, though backup electricity is produced on site." "Mains electricity," in that order, however, seems to have little currency in Indian English. Sorry, I don't have much more. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:23, 6 May 2019 (UTC) Sorry Abecedare don't know why my posts with later time stamp are appearing first. Maybe because they were begun earlier by this slowpoke? Fowler&fowler«Talk»

14:37, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

The OED gives: "power supply n. a supply of power; spec. (a) a mains electricity supply; (b) a device or arrangement for converting a supply from the mains into a low-voltage direct-current form suitable for a valve or transistor. 1887 Science 28 Oct. 209/1 This valuable property..is really managed by the department of physics in all except its power-supply. 1996 Independent 13 Mar. 1/4 The solar mower uses no fossil fuels and no mains power supply." The second example suggests the term, "mains power supply," but I found only British (and some Australian) newspaper sites using them. It drew blanks on the New York Times and the Toronto Star. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 14:48, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Newar for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Newar is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Newar until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 10:15, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Request for protecting Guha (surname) from persistent vandalism

Would request any admin active here to check the article on Guha (surname), and protect the same. This article has been a subject of persistent vandalism by a particular user, as evident from its Revision History, and that too in spite of discussions on the article's talk page as well as issuing warning on the user's talk page. Thanks. Ekdalian (talk) 06:51, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

It is one user and they've had all the warnings etc. Solution is to block Amicus autem populus (talk · contribs). I'll see if I can find someone willing to do so. - Sitush (talk) 07:35, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Sitush. Ekdalian (talk) 08:31, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Good-Article Reassesment

Parkala Massacre, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ∯WBG^converse

06:17, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Wikimedia Education SAARC conference application is now open

Apologies for writing in English, please consider translating

Greetings from CIS-A2K,

The Wikimedia Education SAARC conference will take place on 20-22 June 2019. Wikimedians from Indian, Sri Lanka, Bhutan, Nepal, Bangladesh and Afghanistan can apply for the scholarship. This event will take place at Christ University, Bangalore.

Who should apply?

• Any active contributor to a Wikimedia project, or Wikimedia volunteer in any other capacity, from the South Asian subcontinent is eligible to apply
• An editor must have 1000+ edits before 1 May 2019.
• Anyone who has the interest to conduct offline/real-life Wikimedia Education events.
• Activity within the Wikimedia movement will be the main criteria for evaluation. Participation in non-Wikimedia free knowledge, free software, collaborative or educational initiatives, working with institutions is a plus.

Please know more about this program and apply to participate or encourage the deserving candidates from your community to do so. Regards.Ananth (CIS-A2K) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:54, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2011-11-07/Special report....... Titodutta, do you remember this? :-( But, glad to see that we are progressing from a renewed perspective. ∯WBG^converse 14:45, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Also, I find some of the questions in the form to be weird. Wikimedia Education programs don't run in these regions, to the best of my knowledge.

So, what shall be one's involvement in Education programs or collaborations related to Wikimedia Education, assuming our target demographics is from the listed countries? ∯WBG^converse 14:57, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Can someone translate Maduraikkanchi, the Tamil Sangam Poem?

Hi,

Can someone help render the accurate translation for the following line from Maduraikkanchi (line 144) ?

தென் பரதவர் போ ரேறே

The context is:

நற் கொற்கை யோர்நசைப் பொருந
செற்ற தெவ்வர் கலங்கத் தலைச்சென்று
அஞ்சுவரத் தட்கும் அணங்குடைத் துப்பிற் . . .140
கோழூ உன்குறைக் கொழு வல்சிப்
புலவு விற் பொலி கூவை
ஒன்று மொழி ஒலி யிருப்பில்
தென் பரதவர் போ ரேறே

The full poem can be accessed at https://www.projectmadurai.org/pm_etexts/utf8/pmuni0071.html

Thanks, Nittawinoda (talk) 20:04, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Capitalizing Indian subdivision terms (tehsil/taluk/taluka/mandal) when part of a name?

Hi,

I posted a question about capitalization in the names of Indian subdivisions at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names) that may be of interest to people in this project. Regards, Tdslk (talk) 21:18, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Karnataka for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Karnataka is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Karnataka until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 04:31, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Goa for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Goa is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Goa until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 04:34, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Urdu for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Urdu is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Urdu until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 06:42, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Ayyavazhi for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Ayyavazhi is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Ayyavazhi until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 06:24, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

About the "myneta.info" website

Hi all. With my sysop spectacles on, I can see that no article myneta, myneta.in or myneta.info has ever been created. It nevertheless is extensively used as a reference in Indian politics articles. Is this website a reliable source for biographies of Indian politicians? Pete AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 13:28, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Shirt58, it seems to me that the website just aggregates the election affidavits, i.e., information of their assets, liabilities, criminal charges against them, submitted by politicians who are parliamentary or state legislative candidates to the Election Commission of India. So, in that sense, it's a reliable, but, primary source. Any other information sourced from it, though, would need to be thoroughly vetted. Regards, SshibumXZ (talk · contribs). 13:33, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

I have started

WP:WEBSITE test for notability. Your thoughts about this? Pete AU aka --Shirt58 (talk

) 13:36, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

WP:NWEBSITE; I think the case of myneta.info is similar to that cricket website which is heavily-cited on Wikipedia but on its own is not notable, although, of course, myneta.info does not seem to be as reliable as that cricket website. Regards, SshibumXZ (talk · contribs

). 17:19, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Thank you again for your replies. This would appear to raise a problem: if "Myneta.info" fails the

Wikipedia:NWEBSITE test, should it so not be used as a reliable reference anywhere on Wikipedia? Pete AU aka --Shirt58 (talk

) 14:26, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Purje Song

Another editor has created the article Purje Song. Would someone familiar with Punjabi music please look at the article and consider whether the article should be kept. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 03:30, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Peint State

I would appreciate some thoughts at Talk:Peint State. - Sitush (talk) 05:25, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Greater India

This bull-shitty POV page is apparently linked from hundreds, if not thousands, of articles [8]. Please watch list it and help clean it up. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:33, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Please see my post of 2007 with collapsed NPOV version, written as a dab: Talk:Greater_India#CITEREFBayly2005 (or if someone has fixed my refs links, the collapsed text at the bottom of Talk:Greater_India#Precedence_in_Historiography?). It was my view then that there was nothing more to this concept than what is in that collapsed box. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 11:38, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

730 articles, to be precise. A lot of that article can be straight-away culled. ∯WBG^converse 15:37, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Discussion of Osianama on the reliable sources noticeboard

There is a discussion on the

reliability of Osianama (osianama.com) on the reliable sources noticeboard. If you're interested, please participate at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard § Kalpana Mohan Page. — Newslinger talk

08:53, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Discussion of PTC Punjabi on the reliable sources noticeboard

There is a discussion on the

reliability of PTC Punjabi on the reliable sources noticeboard. If you're interested, please participate at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard § PTCPunjabi. — Newslinger talk

08:58, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Sarpanch

Does each village really have an elected sarpanch? I'm seeing it in every village article that I edit, it is rarely sourced and my mind boggles sometimes, eg: one such village has 3 houses and 16 people. - Sitush (talk) 16:20, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

@

Indian villages do not have sarpanches at all, it is gram panchayats that have sarpanches. A single village may constitute a panchayat, but typically a panchayat is a cluster of villages. For example, in Udaipur district of Rajasthan, there are 2479 villages but only 458 panchayat, so a sarpanch would be shared (on average) between 5.4 villages (see pg 13 of the district census

).

With that said, note that the institutions of each state are governed by the state's

Panchayati Raj

laws, which are fundamentally similar but vary in detail. So the only way to verify the articles you mention is to pull up the latest district census handbook for the district that the village is a part of.

On a related note, WP material on

Panchayat Raj institutions needs a LOT of work. I have it on my radar for improvements.Deccantrap (talk

) 17:19, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. That is roughly how I had worked it out in my mind but it isn't what a lot of articles seem to say. I suspect a lot of them have been created using AWB and then other people have copy/pasted as a framework for another article etc. I'll bear it in mind as I trawl through inappropriate uses of census2011.co.in. - Sitush (talk) 17:27, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

@Sitush: A Revenue Village is a village with definite boundaries and may include one or more hamlets. A village is divided into wards and is headed by a sarpanch.--Vin09 (talk) 03:02, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

So, a village might be un-inhabited and covered under a major gram panchayat may not have a sarpanch.--Vin09 (talk) 03:04, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, Vin09. Your explanation seems to be slightly different from that of Deccantrap, which means that perhaps I am no clearer now than at the start. And Deccantrap, you say So the only way to verify the articles you mention is to pull up the latest district census handbook for the district that the village is a part of but in the Udaipur example you gave I cannot see where the information lies. Sure, I can see p 13 and its summary but, for example, Mavli has 42 Gram Panchayat covering 179 villages, and the pages around pp 85 list the villages (I presume these are Revenue Villages) in Mavli CD Block but I can't see any grouping by Gram Panchayat anywhere. I'm doing something wrong, obviously. Sorry for being a pain: this has always confused me. - Sitush (talk) 05:20, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Let's try it another way with a worked example. I'm currently looking at articles for places in

Mawal taluka using the pages 402, 408, 414 and 420 in this DCHB. Will each place named on those pages (below the heading rows) have a sarpanch? Even the one with only 3 houses and 16 people?

I found this site and entered Maharashtra / Pune / Maval in the dropdown lists, which seemed to give me a list corresponding to the DHCB on the pages I mentioned. But when I clicked to go further I got a warning in Firefox that the site is dodgy, probably because it has not been correctly configured. I do know from some random searches of it that it contains lots of maps of panchayats. - Sitush (talk

) 05:39, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

@Sitush: you are absolutely right that DCHB alone will not lead you to panchayat listings; it will need to be supplemented with another source. Sorry, I did not think this through. Will each place named on those pages (below the heading rows) have a sarpanch? No, it will not. In the case of the earlier example of Mavli tehsil, one would first verify the village name in DCHB (say, the first village under Mavli, 'Neta ka Gurha'), then go to a source like the district's official website which shows that Neta ka Gurha is NOT a panchayat. Therefore, Neta ka Gurha would NOT have a sarpanch.Deccantrap (talk) 05:50, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Unfortunately, at this time I cannot speak to Pune district (in which Maval taluka lies) as to where that supplementary source would be. A quick look at Pune district's website doesn't show a listing of panchayats, unlike Udaipur district's website.Deccantrap (talk) 05:52, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

There are a few villages, which are not in census doc, I think they are not census villages, might be a part of revenue village or a small hamlet. Gram panchayats will have a sarpanch. As User:Deccantrap said, need to check other sources for example: villages (Guntur district, AP) and gram panchayat sarpanchs (Guntur district, AP). --Vin09 (talk) 05:54, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

@Sitush: I think I figured out a work-flow for Maval taluka as well. Let's take the first village under Maval on page 402 of the DCH-B, 'Sawale'. Go to this directory of local bodies, and filter your way down to Maval taluka (Maharashtra > Zila Parishad... > Village Panchayat > Pune > Maval), which tells you there are 103 panchayats in Maval. Compare that number with page 40 of DCH-A which states that Maval has 181 villages. Thus, clearly every village in Maval is NOT a panchayat. But in the case of Sawale, the directory shows that it is indeed a panchayat. Therefore, Sawale WILL have a panchayat and a sarpanch. By contrast, the village of Rakaswadi which has a population of 20, is predicatably NOT in the directory of panchayats, which means it is probably clubbed with at least one another village to form a panchayat.Deccantrap (talk) 06:24, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Is Panchayt codes of any help?--Vin09 (talk) 06:27, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

@Vin09: Definitely so. While it is less easy-to-use than the directory cited above, it can perform the same function. I.e., if a village is not listed in this countrywide list of panchayats, then it is likely not a panchayat in itself, but is clubbed with other village/s to form a panchayat.Deccantrap (talk) 06:32, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Those suggestions give me something to think about, thanks. I've also found this but I'm wary of using spreadsheet data. I'm also a bit concerned I might be getting into the realms of

WP:OR here but I've searched the Pune district website and cannot find a list below ZP level. What a nightmare this is! - Sitush (talk

) 07:04, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

It looks like that database could be used for the entire country, if it is complete. It's a shame that it doesn't enable us to discover which GP a village falls under if it isn't itself a GP. Also, that it seems to be impossible to link directly to the query. Vin09's list concerns me slightly in that the source website doesn't seem to be working now and the archived list is from some years ago, so things may have changed. But I guess in any case we would need to be saying "As of YYYY, the village was/was not listed as a gram panchayat" - something along those lines. - Sitush (talk) 07:34, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

@

WP:OR.Deccantrap (talk

) 13:13, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Woah, I've found the gram panchayat listing in the 2001 census - p 1296 here - showing which villages are under which GP. Of course, that may have changed by 2011 but it does imply that the info probably exists somewhere in the 2011 documents also. - Sitush (talk) 06:52, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

@Sitush: Nice find. A quick look at the corresponding place in 2011 DCH-A for Pune district reveals that it does indeed contain a similar listing! List starts page 1181, and page 1198 for Maval taluka. I randomly sampled some other district handbooks across the country and, sadly, some lists are empty ("N/A") but great to know this is available for at least some districts.Deccantrap (talk) 14:12, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Oh, that's a shame but thanks for sampling. I'm wondering if we should set up a FAQ for handling this type of thing. - Sitush (talk) 16:43, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

@Sitush: Sounds like a great idea. Some of the resources discussed in this thread would be very valuable to editors of articles on Indian villages. I don't have any idea where/how to build a WP FAQ, but would love to contribute if you start one and can kindly draw my attention to it.Deccantrap (talk) 17:53, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Kamarupi discussions

In an effort to resolve years-long content disputes, there are currently a few requests for comments active at

Kamrupi dialect

. It would be helpful if some fresh eyes could take a look and comment. Editors who are knowledgeable about or interested in linguistics and/or history of Assam may be particularly well-positioned to contribute. Here is the current list of discussions:

• On article name for Kamarupi Prakrit
• On article lede for Kamarupi Prakrit
• On article lede for Kamrupi dialect
• On a historical note about the dialect

Thanks. Abecedare (talk) 21:14, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Abecedare for posting the issue here for more attention, some material on the subject will helpful for those new to subject, here is the link. Please help us to resolve this seven year old dispute.भास्कर् Bhagawati Speak 10:26, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

ILM Academy needs a rewrite to avoid advertising focus

ILM Academy needs a rewrite. Supposedly there are enough reliable sources for an article as The Hindu

covered it, but it needs to be written in the Wikipedia style. WhisperToMe (talk) 02:00, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Malayalam cinema for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Malayalam cinema is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Malayalam cinema until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 12:02, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

How to deal with villages in same taluka sharing similar names

Any thoughts on how to title articles for villages in

Mawal taluka that share similar names? We've got Brahman Wadi and Brahmanwadi but it turns out that there are two villages in Mawal with the latter name, per the 2011 census. I know how we distinguish when villages share the same name but are in different talukas but this situation is a new one for me. - Sitush (talk

) 12:06, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

And they have the same PIN code too? This looks fishy. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 12:32, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Different census number, and different populations/areas etc. Not sure it the PIN code is the same or not, regardless of what our article may say about it. Fitindia did a batch create of many of these articles about three years ago and I think there may have been some confusion. That's why I have just removed the coordinates from the two that exist. Originally, they had only created one anyway, which is one reason why their list did not tally with the official total number of villages in the taluka. - Sitush (talk) 12:41, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

I have no idea where the PIN codes, coordinates etc came from - they were not sourced. - Sitush (talk) 12:42, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

While I don't have anything to contribute on the primary question on how to title articles for villages with same names (same taluka), I will add an observation on the discussion about coordinates. A great source for geo-locating villages is Bhuvan which allows one to drill down to the village level. The site, maintained by India's well-funded space research organisation, has been very reliable and stable since it went up about 8 years ago. In case of Brahmanwadi, I assumed this article was for the village with census code 555995 since the population matched this code. The map on pg 413 shows the location of each village by representing the last three digits (995). It is then relatively easy to find that village on Bhuvan and grab its coordinates. Using this method, I added coordinates for this village, with sources.Deccantrap (talk) 14:37, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

That could be handy, thanks. The other two places are codes 555897 (Brahman Wadi) and 555916 (no article yet as I need to sort out a title). - Sitush (talk) 16:10, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

I can find the places on Bhuvan, but I don't know how to get their coordinates. (I fixed the coordinates for Brahmanwadi by cross-comparing with Google satellite.) -- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:18, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

@Kautilya3:In Bhuvan, one can get coordinates simply by hovering the cursor over the location of interest. The coordinates show up in the bottom-right corner. However, Bhuvan only shows 2 places after the decimal, so I typically take those coordinates and fine-tune them by comparing with Google satellite. It looks like you got to the same result anyway.Deccantrap (talk) 20:39, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Geolocation has moved on a bit since I started out. Back then it was along the lines of "find the tall tree, take 10 steps north and then three steps west" :) - Sitush (talk) 20:52, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Sorry @Winged Blades of Godric: my edit was meant to be a joke. But I should have known better:p Deccantrap (talk) 04:58, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

I failed to get the humor in your strikeout and thought that you were being too serious, as to Sitush's comment. LOL:-( ∯WBG^converse 05:01, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

The two villages spelled Brahmanwadi (555916 and 555995) are both a part of Karanjgaon gram panchayat, per p 1199 of this. - Sitush (talk) 04:17, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

<village name>, <mandal/tehsil/taluka name>--Vin09 (talk) 06:04, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, thanks, but they're in the same taluka, at least according to the census. - Sitush (talk) 06:16, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

• Different topic but plugging my question here because those participating in this discussion are likely to have some thoughts. What is the convention for naming articles of towns/cities in India? E.g., The article for town of Bhinder in
  Bhinder, Udaipur" but the neighbouring town of Mavli is only "Mavli". Neither name has any known risk of ambiguation since the names are relatively uncommon. Should the article name be "Town" or "Town, District"? Couldn't find relevant guidance on Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names), it may be there and I am missing it.Deccantrap (talk
  ) 19:37, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

I moved it to Bhinder. If a name is qualified, then the unqualified name should be a disambiguation page. Otherwise, people won't find what they want. About how to disambiguate a given name, there are no hard rules. Whatever makes sense in the context. I would generally choose the state/province unless it is still ambiguous; then I go down to the district, taluka etc. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 22:23, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes, that seems right to me. As an aside to the aside, there are also naming inconsistences involving parentheses for the district/taluka rather than separating by using a comma. I've never understood the need for parentheses but it seems to be reasonably common in my limited forays into editing Indian village articles. - Sitush (talk) 10:25, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Thiruvananthapuram for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Thiruvananthapuram is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Thiruvananthapuram until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 02:45, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Kollam for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Kollam is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Kollam until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 02:47, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Udaipur for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Udaipur is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Udaipur until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 02:50, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Unreferenced article

Hello, I would like to inform the project of an article that cites zero sources:

Defence Avionics Research Establishment. starship.paint (talk

) 02:52, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

It's now partially referenced thanks to Galatz. Still needs work. starship.paint (talk) 14:14, 30 May 2019 (UTC)