Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive123

Thank you - I request administrators to take decisive action, as this has been going on for over one month, with a previous ANI report and numerous warnings. This Fire Burns Always 06:06, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm going to block both of them for 48hrs. Frankly some of the material discussed isn't for me to understand - well I couldn't see anything obvious from the article edits, but some of the talk page edits seem rather bizarre to say the least and some of the knockabout tone and inappropriate language is very disconcerting. Blnguyen | rant-line 06:17, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Basically Aryan argues from a hard Hindu POV, and Elven is oppposite that. The diffs provided illustrate a combination of revert warring, personal attacks, abusive messaging, vandalism and constant disruption of Wikipedia work. This Fire Burns Always 06:21, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

This time I ask for really decisive and follow-up action, because several good editors have taken a lot of hell for over a month over several articles. A thousand warnings have not affected these gentlemen, who haven't even acted in a civil manner aside from the disputes. This Fire Burns Always 06:23, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Having seen both these users (ARYAN818, Elven6), I endorse these blocks. Both of these users spent most of their time in disrupting the articles and attacking other editors, without adding anything fruitful to the articles in question. ARYAN818 has already been blocked several times for his user name, though he claims 818 is just his area code and has no neo-nazi connotations (though his frequent edit-wars in Aryan provide an interesting insight). I suggest other admins keep an eye on the pages referred to above as frequent edit warring continues to foment there. --Ragib 07:37, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

ARYAN818 should be permanently blocked for his user name. User:Zoe|^(talk) 21:25, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

His articles of interest (and manner of edit warring) lead me to believe that he is not a neo-Nazi. While this can also be easily faked, his name in the email address he used to write to the unblock mailing list also had "Aryan" as a first name. Maybe he should be blocked for edit warring, but I don't think he should be indef blocked unless he shows more serious behaviour. --Deathphoenix ʕ 13:59, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Neo-Nazis use the code number "88" ("HH" = "Heil Hitler". This is a clearly inappropriate user name. User:Zoe|^(talk) 19:21, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

And Chinese people use "88" as a good luck number. I've seen plenty of people with "88" at the end of their user name (I mean email address and user names outside of Wikipedia, I don't know anyone here IRL), and they're about as Neo-Nazi as I am. I'd never heard of this 88=HH="Heil Hitler" stuff until here (and as a side rant, Buddhists can't show a certain religious symbol because of the damn swastika). And he's not 88, he's 818. Look, I'm not saying that it's not serious, but there is such a thing as too sensitive. This guy is an edit warrior, sure, but looking at his edits, he doesn't strike to me as a neo-Nazi (at least, not yet). That means that he's certainly a good recipient of a block if he's a persistent edit warrior, but it'll take more evidence to indef-block him for having a neo-Nazi username. --Deathphoenix ʕ 04:17, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I thought this had been pointed out already, but in the same way that 88 means HH, 818 means HAH, or Heil Adolf Hitler. And there's the tiny matter of the fact that the code is preceded by the word Aryan. If his username was CuteFluffyKitten818 it might be different, but it's not. The claim that it's a common name sounds fishy to me - I've never heard of anyone called 'Aryan', and after going through two disambig links I only managed to find a single person called 'Arya'. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 12:36, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Nope, that's the first time I've had that explained to be, and thanks for that. Man, there's a code for friggin' everything these days. --Deathphoenix ʕ 01:44, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

This is a tough username issue. I appreciate the argument of ARYAN818 (talk · contribs) regarding his user name (on User talk:ARYAN818). I saw the name on RC patrol a while ago, and was about to indef block for username, but after reviewing contribs, I'm pretty sure he's not making a neo-Nazi reference -- Samir धर्म 01:53, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I will study the matter and shall offer my comments within two to three days. Prima facie, I find that the two users concerned do not care for the guidance and comments of fellow-wikipedians. This is not a good sign. --Bhadani 17:47, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Being referred to by name again

"Ryulong! you are not Moot, stop changing other peoples edits." Does this count as a personal attack, too? Ryulong 23:31, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

• All of these are vandalism, but please don't look for the NPA policy. It's not needed, in the first place, and we all take chances when we edit Wikipedia. The gibbering on the talk page and the random edit warring is sufficient for intervention without trying to assess whether or not a person has been insulted. Geogre 02:32, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

• Moved from
  WP:AN. Hiding Talk
  22:02, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Regarding this issue, I wonder if a another admin could take a look. I think the admin here chose a block way before necessary, to what otherwise appears to be a good user. Summary: yes, I think the user was making negative comments, but I don't think such an immediate block was called for. Thanks for your time. --Kickstart70-T-C 19:46, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I've already asked Essjay on his talk page to clarify this[51], as I feel it is questionable. The comments by which led to the block of User:CovenantD are these: [52], [53], [54].

Essjay justified his block on the grounds of disruption. [55]., [56] I find this highly questionable. I'm concerned that blocking was taken before any other form of dispute resolution. Blocks should be preventantive, not punitive, and as I commented to Essjay, this smacks of punishment to me. Looking at the block log [57], Essjay describes the disruption as being: "incivility and borderline personal attacks at RFCU". Now borderline personal attacks are no basis to justify a block, and nor is incivility.

WP:BLOCK

is clear on what constitutes disruption:

Sysops may block IP addresses or usernames that disrupt the normal functioning of Wikipedia, or pose any kind of threat to it. Such disruption may include (but is not limited to) changing other users' signed comments, making deliberately misleading edits, harassment, excessive personal attacks, and inserting material that may be defamatory. Users will normally be warned before they are blocked My emphasis.

I think this is a clear case of a badly issued block. Given the number of positions Essjay holds on Wikipedia, I would hope there are other issues behind this block. Otherwise, to me, it creates suitability issues for some of them. Hiding Talk 21:27, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it fair to ask Essjay to explain his block here before speculating further. We need to be clear, though, that the comments CovenantD made on the RFCU page were highly, highly insulting and completely inappropriate. I don't know where he got the idea that such behavior could ever be acceptable. Mackensen (talk) 22:51, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

It's fair to say that CovenantD lost his temper and said some inappropriate things in his frustration. It's also clear that CovenantD was being extremely impatient with RfCU, which has always been a slow process, but as he noted it was his first RfCU and he may not have realized how long they take. I think these are mitigating factors that should be considered. But I don't see what's "highly insulting" about the remarks, nor do I understand the "abuse" you cited in your initial decision to reject. I'm curious to know what you were referring to. Kasreyn 23:07, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if you are reading different comments than I, or reading them in a different light, but while I agree they weren't helpful and were pretty negative, I don't see anything "highly, highly insulting" in any way. --Kickstart70-T-C 23:09, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not convinced of that at all, no. The first comment I link to above is an expression of frustration, after all, Wikipedia is not meant to be a bureaucracy and here is someone running into a bureaucratic log-jam. I don't think anyone is being insulted other than the process. The user showed good faith in asking how long it would take, and having received no reply over 24 hours later frusratingly quesried no response. The rest of his comments seem reasonable considering the replies given. I think your response there is just as inflammatory, to be perfectly honest. I can't see how you were personally abused. Nowhere on the page does it indicate length of delay in getting a response. The first comment is not a personal attack in any shape or form, I can accept a case being made that it is incivil, but it's not cut and dried. The other comments are attempts at fixing a perceived flaw in the system. I think there's demonstrable good faith in Covenant's prior edits, [58], [59], so I think respondents should have assumed good faith, and I don't think they have. I think this situation was escalated by the participants a lot further than necessary, and I think in disregard for user conduct policies. Let's be clear, no-one's conduct is acceptable after CovenantD expressed frustration, but nothing that needed blocks to be issued for. The phrase "storm in a tea cup" springs to mind. Hiding Talk 23:15, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

His remarks go far, far beyond normal frustration, and his insinuations were maddening. Checkusering is extremely stressful work, and Essjay's right about the repeated abuse we experience carrying out our task (the nasty emails, the death threats, the tirades, the incivility, the refusal to believe us when we identify sockpuppets, the conversations with Willy on Wheels). This is a question of customer service. He asked for something; fine. He gave no indication that the request was pressing–if it was an emergency one of us could have been directly notified. He then began making a series of personal attacks, each worse than the last. Finally, I have some time and I wander over the Checkuser page. This is what I find. It's always nice to know that the hours upon hours of sacrifice are appreciated. Mackensen (talk) 23:21, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Please, asking seriously, give us direct links to the 'personal attacks'. I, for one, am not seeing anything that qualifies under any reasonable definition. Further, he should not suffer for the actions of others. --Kickstart70-T-C 23:42, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll also note that Checkuser is restricted because of its sensitive nature and is a measure of last resort. The clerks explained politely and responded negatively. Mackensen (talk) 23:22, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Nope, I don't see that they do go beyond normal frustration at all. Given your answer it appears you had the wrong frame of mind when judging his comments. The user had already noted he was new to the process, and was suggesting reasonable ways to fix the process based on having no understanding of the process. He did give an indication that the request was pressing, [60]. I'd also note you have no idea whether CovenantD was undergoing stress caused by his mediation of the dispute at the page indicated. All of us are volunteers. You criticise CovenantD for his frustration, yet seem oblivious to your own frustration and posting based on that. Your actions are equatable to CovenantD's. DOes this mean I should block you for 24 hours? I still can see no personal insult to you personally. That you took comments personally is one thing; that they were meant personally is another. I don't think you have considered the possibility that any attack was meant personally, but rather at the system which appeared to the user to be broken. If no-one watches the page for 24 hours, is it not reasonable to ask if we can have more checkuser enabled editors? Especially if you are told there are only 2 active in the 14. That seems like a flawed process to me. We all make hours and hours of sacrifice. I'm afraid to me your contention that a series of personal attacks were made is not born out by the edits in question. I accept the clerks responses were perfectly polite. I can't see that CovenantD's response was impolite, and I can't see how you and Essjay justify your responses, nor Essjay his block. I'm also concerned by the flaws this dispute throws up. Should checkuser requests be judged on the merits of the case? If not, there is a worrying precedent set here. Hiding Talk 23:46, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I think I'd worry about that sort of abuse causing our (volunteer) checkusers to "take a break" and cause other checkuser requests to lag, just because one person was impatient. Blocked or not, if CovenantD was that worked up over something on Wikipedia, it's about time to go do something non-Wikipedia for a bit. I'd suggest the new Pirates movie. *nod* Very good. Depp's a hottie. Ayep. ~Kylu (u|t) 23:32, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I can't quite balance one volunteer's frustrations higher than another volunteer's. They all impact upon Wikipedia. If that's how the checkuser system operates, I'd question considering another model. But CovenantD tried that and was blocked. He did do something else for 30 hours. I don't know. I remember voting in Essjay's RFA. I just can't see where Essjay got the idea these were blockable comments from. I can't see that no-one can accept some fault here or extend some understanding and good faith. Hiding Talk 23:53, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I hadn't commented on the block at all, and I don't plan to. :) I'd like to see the block pass, then all sides forgive and forget. While overhauling the current system might be good, I do beleive that there are regular proposals on how to do so and none that I know of have passed. As far as volunteer status goes, imho the reason Essjay has all those nifty +flags is because he's trusted by the community to do the right thing: If a resource (such as active checkusers) is endangered, the community should either try to create more of the resource and/or protect the resource they currently have. Verbally assaulting the resources simply causes an already endangered resource in the persona of active checkusers to potentially vanish. ~Kylu (u|t) 00:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't see how one sockpuppet voting in a straw poll can make all that much difference to an article. Even so, I made a very polite response to CovenantD's nagging and suggested an alternate means for resolving the article dispute he obviously feels strongly about. His response was to dump on the checkusers (as a whole, as I read it). To paraphrase Essjay, people forget that nearly everybody working on wikipedia is a volunteer. Perhaps some members of the Arbitration committee should work on the RFCU page instead of the 28 outstanding cases they have right now. Or Brion V could drop his development work on the wikimedia software to help CovenantD win some content dispute. Last week, Essjay identified and reported a long-time apparently "good" editor who had a long-term record of creating vandal sockpuppet accounts, and the community reaction was a big yawn and a week long block. This week Jayjg's integrity has been publicly questioned in at least two places by an administrator he caught using a sockpuppet to evade a block for 3RR, and Mackensen has been harranged on his talk page over at least three declined requests before CovenantD came along. You're lucky to have checkusers at all, and you may find yourselves looking back on the halcyon days when a checkuser request took only 2 days to be answered.

Thatcher131

00:43, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely, Thatcher131. Part of the problem with checkuser is the difficulty in the process that's assigned to it. Technically, I could do the actual checkuser lookup, but socially I wouldn't touch it with a fifty foot pole manipulated by a radio-controlled robotic arm. Look at the Socafan (or whatever his name was) incident where he griped about Essjay revealing the country in which he resided. Actually, look at every five or so RFCU requests since the page began: there's no shortage of gripes and abuses heaped upon those who we're supposed to be trusting with this sensitive information. Now, if he took all the usernames that edited

Tiannamen Square and checkuser'd them and reported them to the PRC, I could see that being an issue. If I had someone request that I write an article on my talkpage, I'd consider it. If they demanded such and were nasty about it, I'd tell them to go bugger off in so many words. I think the exact same thing happened here, just with different privelege levels involved. ~Kylu (u|t

) 00:58, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I would not have complained about the revelation of a country had it not been for absolutely no reason - the request lacked any basis and should thus have been declined, the fact that it was not revealed a bias - and if Essjay had not written: one is from country x, the other from country y, my geography is bad but I guess they are close so it might be a sock. Try that with a Californian and a guy from NY. Socafan 22:50, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

On what Thatcher has said, it used to take a lot longer, and the page was considerably less nice than it is right now. Also, the diffs presented are not entirely perfect, as shortly after making a comment, ConvenantD changed the wording from "Time to get more people." to "Time to replace some people.". Basically a call to fire some checkusers and get new ones because they aren't responding instantly to a request. There's no timeframe listed there, insted a resort to attacking the a volunteer process to use a sensitive tool.

Kevin_b_er

01:24, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I read it as "replacing the people who aren't actually doing any checkusering", but I guess I assume good faith from an otherwise good editor. I do note that the people claiming CovenantD was making personal insults have not responded to requests to specifically point out those personal attacks...and that was the reasoning behind him being blocked anyway, wasn't it? --Kickstart70-T-C 04:43, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I remember when we didn't have checkuser, so any threats about taking it away don't bother me too much. Maybe we should consider if it's a tool that isn't worth the hassle it causes. Hiding Talk 11:37, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm really moved to wonder about the motivations of those who have stirred this up so much; hundreds of similar blocks are made each day, and none ges so much as a word, much less this sort of treatment. I'm inclined to wonder if User_talk:CovenantD#I_would_suggest_you_formally_take_the_above_to_ArbCom doesn't have a lot to do with it. At any rate, the community shall have what they desire: I'm joining the other 13 who don't go near RfCU, and I've encouraged Mackensen to do likewise; the fact that nobody could be bothered to think "Hmm, this might leave us with nobody willing to do this" indicates to me that the community really doesn't care if RfCU has 1000 backlogged cases. I will, of course, continue to be available for requests from the Arbitration Committee and the Foundation Office, as are the other 13; to assume that not working on RfCU = not running any checks is a grand fallacy. Essjay (Talk) 05:16, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I've looked over this situation and while on first glance I can see why some people don't see it as a justified block. However, I also know (as a fellow CheckUser) how grindingly difficult that job is. I used to be the only person working RFCU, and I couldn't keep it up for long because it's timeconsuming and totally thankless. People who put out with an attitude that they're entitled to whatever they want right away are going to find that that's not the way things work. CovenantD failed to show respect for the very difficult job that Essjay and Mackensen are doing. The rude attitude with which he expressed himself was out of line, especially for someone serving as a mediator. Frankly, he needed a quick smack in the ass to get him to realize he was out of line. I don't know if 24 hours was the appropriate time, but I suspect Essjay would have shortened the block if an apology had been forthcoming.

Long and the short of it, treat your checkusers nice; there aren't many of them and they work really hard for you. Be mean to them at your own peril. Kelly Martin (talk) 05:29, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. Correct me if I'm wrong, but did I just see a user (CovenantD) reduce the chances of every other user, including myself, getting help with a checkuser request? Because that kind of bites... I wish you would reconsider, Essjay. And even if you won't, why is it that only about 1% of admins are entrusted with this power, and only about 0.02% actually use it? If it's such a frustrating hassle that burns you out so badly, why isn't the power expanded, maybe to a whopping 50 admins? Surely there have to be, out of those 1000, at least 50 trustworthy admins! I would imagine there are far more than that. Kasreyn 06:58, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

(Responding in the order questions were asked) Yes, that is the case. No, sorry I won't; this happens far too often, and as the link I gave above indicates, there is at least one user actively looking for opportunities to continue. Again, this is a fallacy; while only 2 of us are (were) active on RFCU, nearly everyone with the permission is active in using it. The majority of those who have it are on the Arbitration Committee, and they use it for that; there are also requests from the Foundation Office, and sua sponte checks on things like vandals who continue to create more accounts after they are blocked. If it were expanded, it would be 50 admins burned out, instead of 14; the problem isn't that the permission burns you out, it's the abusive treament from other users. Indeed, there could be, but you have to be very careful when you give out access to information that could get people stalked,imprisoned, or executed; if you give out someone's IP, they can easily end up being stalked, and if they live in a country with a hostile regime, can be imprisoned or executed for the things they do here. That's not something to be handed out lightly. Plus, more is not necessarily better; the more who have access, the harder it is to control, and being able to control who has access to very sensitive private information is imperative. Essjay (Talk) 09:53, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Question: is it really so sensitive information? Everybody who is on Internet should realize that their IP is practically public; people who are unhappy with this use proxies. Countries with oppressive governments have many other ways to find out what their citizens are doing rather than wait for wikipedia admins to reveal IP addresses (and I know about such countries first-hand). Personally I would not care much if my IP address was visible to everybody. For example, currently my IP is 68.178.232.99, let anybody who wants to stalk, imprisone or execute me do their worst :) --Vlad1 04:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, no one is likely to break down your door over your edits, or maybe put your family in a re-education camp to keep you quiet, unlike a democracy activist from Egypt or a Falun Gong member from China. More than that, Wikipedia has a long tradition of anonymity and a strong privacy policy. And there have been some very bad stalking incidents. Oppresive governments are hardly the only groups that might have an interest in harrassing an editor off the wiki.

Thatcher131

05:50, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

• I'm sorry, but the reaction to this incident is completely out of proportion to the questionable block. I appreciate that it's a hard job, but nobody forces anyone to do it, and I think
  WP:CIV cut both ways. I'm disappointed in a lot of people's reactions here. All I was looking for was an acknowledgement that there was an over-reaction. As to the discussion on CovenantD's talk page, I wopuld hope people would assume good faith in the fact that people were steering this to the appropriate venues. I would have been far happier sorting this out with Essjay, but a user brought it here, well within their rights and as I had already involved myself I felt obliged to comment. I stand by my assertion that this is a questionable block. I apologise for the grief it has caused people, but I still feel refusing to grant a checkuser request on anything other than the merits of the case is disappointing. I really think there was a failure in common sense on all sides here, and to be honest, if CovenantD deserves a slap, then can we tear up all the guidance on there being no cabal, and no elite, and make sure we tell people that if they ruffle the feathers of the important people or their friends, then they're in the shit. Because I'm sorry, but that's what happened here. [61]. Every time something like this blows up it's because people act before they think. I know I'm guilty of it, but don't we have a right to expect better from the chairman of the mediators? This is out of hand; whatever happened to a common sense approach and the extension of putting yourself in the shoes of the other? If someone has a beef, I thought they had the right to be heard respectfully. I'm sorry for the way this has turned out, it was never my intention. Hiding Talk
  11:19, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
  • If someone has a beef, I thought they had the right to be heard respectfully. Couldn't agree more; I wish Essjay and I were extended the same courtesey. He was heard respectfully (from Thatcher) and he chose to be rude. I can't help that. I'm not going to quit checkusering, but as it seems I'm the last man standing, y'all will have to work around my own work schedule from here on out. Mackensen (talk) 11:49, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
    • You misunderstand me. I'm talking about Kickstart70's beef with the block. I'm disturbed by the questioning of people's motives in commenting on the block. I can't help that the block was given. I believed there was a right to question it. Hiding Talk 11:56, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

You know what, I'd have no problems with Essjay and Mackensen going on a long (and possibly permanent) RFCU break. The one good thing that's come out of it is that it's advertised even more that RFCU is a gruelling and thankless job. If people choose to treat RFCUers like this, and the RFCUers feel like they're being hung out to dry, let them take a long break from doing that job so the rest of the community can realise how hard it really is. (please note, not a comment on specific people here, but a general comment on people being hung out to dry) --Deathphoenix ʕ 14:30, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I do have a problem. They are both reliable and trustworthy users, they have done a huge amount of work behind scenes to improve the encyclopedia, and, they handle most of the RFCU cases. "But the side effect is to show RFCU is thankless job" gain is not worthy the loss. -- Drini 17:48, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

On the other hand, having them perform and the support a block against policy and without the warnings that should have happened show pretty clearly that there is an issue with judgement that needs to be considered. I am very thankful for their work, however that does not leave them blameless for making a bad choice. The two are not mutually exclusive. --Kickstart70-T-C 19:47, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I agree it's a huge loss. Sometimes people like CovenantD just don't know (or don't care). I wonder what people like that would do if there's noone around to cater to their every whim? --Deathphoenix ʕ 14:29, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Or maybe, since this was his first request of this sort, he (like me) didn't even know that every admin didn't have this power? Seriously, why is CovenantD getting such a hard time for this? No one who supports the block has detailed what the 'personal insults' were, even after multiple requests. Numerous other admins and editors say that this was a badly-issued and too-hasty block, and the admins involved in the initial situation aren't being at all asked to say that they did something incorrectly. This just smacks of 'administrator privilege', which is wholly against the policies of Wikipedia, by all I've read. Perhaps there are unwritten rules that allow this behaviour? If so, would someone be kind enough to share those? --Kickstart70-T-C 21:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I can only assume that you either didn't read his comments or don't understand why insinuations of that sort are insulting. Either way, I'm not going to apologize for being offended. He's never apologized either, so I think the matter settled. Mackensen (talk) 21:50, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I can only assume that you don't understand the issue here with blocking against policy, or don't care. All I would like to see out of the admins involved is an admission that the block was done too hastily and not within policy. That, just by itself, is quite important. Admins cannot freely go around ignoring policy, and then expect their decisions to be respected. --Kickstart70-T-C 23:18, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

No, I understand the issue quite well; the issue is not blocking against policy. Thanks for ignoring my comments; I suppose it's very easy to construe this issue in such a manner when you've never read the original exchange (or, possibly, have no idea why being called, effectively, lazy and incompetent is an insult). I think we've about exhausted the usefulness of this forum, to say nothing of my patience. If you feel there's a legitimate issue here I recommend an RfC or Arbcom. Mackensen (talk) 23:23, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I do not see how CovenantD called any of the participating admins lazy or incompetent. I'm sorry if this bothers you, I simply do not. So yeah, you have/had a chance to explain to me where he said this, but no one wants to answer me directly on this point, or whether the block violated policy. I'd rather not take this to Arbcom or RfC, but I guess that's what you'd prefer...involving more people, wasting more admin time, rather than answering some pretty bloody easy questions. --Kickstart70-T-C 01:24, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Update Guess what? If CovenantD had asked Samuel Luo and Tomananda nicely why they appeared to have the same IP address, they would have

• Comment I agree with Samuel Luo's comment at RFCU; I'd say the block was a bit of an overreaction but CovenantD was definitely out of line and was operating based on misconceptions which I hope s/he understands by now. I also hope Essjay and Mackensen can de-stress for a while but (maybe after a break) continue to keep an eye on RFCU and handle the requests that warrant it. I think having RFCU available outside the machinery of full-blown arb cases takes nontrivial pressure off of every level of wiki ops that involves dealing with sockpuppets (including the arbcom). I'd oppose expanding checkuser for reasons described by Essjay. Phr (talk) 03:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

An AMA request for assistance has been made

An AMA request for assistance has been made here --Kickstart70-T-C 02:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

It seems the part of policy that justified this block is really what's in question. So lets go to the policy. Its for 'Disruption: incivility and borderline personal attacks', and its for a day("24 hours)". There's an attack on the wikipedia process, a personal attack on all the checkusers, and general incivility from the fact that wikipedia isn't always instantantaneously responding from CoventantD. The problem is that you are not being stonewalled, you are being disagreed with. Several people do not agree with you that the block was without policy. The brief block was for incivility and borderline personal attacks, and warning is recommend, but not required. There is the policy reasoning Essjay applied behind the block, which is the subject of your AMA request.

Kevin_b_er

04:55, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm saying this because I don't know...is there a place within the AMA request, or outside of this very tainted process which this discussion should place? I don't feel that any sort of great solution to this is going to happen within what's already happened here. --Kickstart70-T-C 05:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

This user edited User:Mike Rosoft's userpage (diff), adding references to Josef Stalin and "Wikipedia is Communism". He also edited a user subpage (User:Mike Rosoft/Spambot) and changed all User:Mike Rosoft's spambot links to a an email address purporting to be Stalin's... I reverted his edits and the user (I assume it to be Richard) then edited (diff) my userpage from an IP, adding in the WiC and Stalin references. I think he should be blocked as the Communism Vandal or more likely an impostor of. — Gary Kirk | ^talk! 18:43, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Firefox got him. JoshuaZ 21:21, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

User:SPUI in continuing to ignore sanctions put in place by the Arbcom 3 weeks ago with regard to state highway articles. On Minnesota State Highway 33 SPUI has engaged in an revert/edit war with User:Jonathunder in direct violation of section 2.1 of Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Highways which explicitly prohibits himself and any other involved parties from engaging in disruptive editing of highway articles. Full text of the decision is as following "2.1) Should SPUI, JohnnyBGood, Rschen7754, and PHenry disrupt the editing of any article which concerns highways he or she may be banned by any administrator from that article or related articles. All bans are to be logged at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Highways#Log of blocks and bans." He's violated this many times since the end of arbcom, this is just the latest time. --JohnnyBGood 21:30, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I think this belongs on

Arbitration Enforcement actually? 207.145.133.34

21:39, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

No one ever reads that board, hence I've put it here. --JohnnyBGood 21:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Well. I sometimes read it. In any case I've had a word with SPUI and Jonathunder over Minnesota State Highway 33. SPUI has reacted well to such reminders in the recent past so I expect that will be the end of it in this instance. --Tony Sidaway 21:51, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

How many warnings does he get. This is the second or third time in a week you've warned him. He's violating his probation, you obviously agree or you wouldn't be warning him. Are the warnings indefinite as long as he moves his disruption around? Cause if so I'd like to make some controversial edits that could be seen as disruptive but have so far restrained myself. --JohnnyBGood 21:54, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Also he's obviously not receptive to such warnings if he's continuing to edit war just at different articles. --JohnnyBGood 22:02, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm being patient and reasonable. If SPUI continues to get into these little squabbles despite multiple warnings, he may find himself sanctioned. In the past there has been a lack of community confidence in enforcement actions taken against SPUI, and I'm sure you agree that it wouldn't be sensible to impose a sanction only to have it overturned. --Tony Sidaway 22:11, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

True there has been SOME irregularity in sanctions against him in the past (most of the sanctions were justified in the past if just through the sheer number of them). But that was before there was a set ruling against him written in the perverbial cyber stone saying he can't do this anymore. Yet he continues to do so. Sanctions at this point have arbcom backing when it comes to disruption of highway articles and any admin wheelwarring a block against him now is violating the arbcom ruling. You understand my fustration here. If he's on probation he should be on probation, otherwise call it what it is and say the probation means jack shit and he, myself and any other editors subject to it don't have to follow it. JohnnyBGood t c VIVA! 22:18, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

What about blocking and banning the idiot who came up with an article about Highway 33 in the first place? We don't need articles about Minnesota highways on here. Nor do we need articles about "historic places" in Minnesota, like the author's other contributions. If nobody had created the article on Highway 33 (with an admittedly wrong title, to boot), this fiasco would never have started. --Elkman 23:14, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

How about we refrain from personal attacks on the person who created the article. And for the record there is plenty of evidence the creator had it in the right place to begin with. And we do need HW 33 on here as it is part of a series of State Highways. JohnnyBGood 23:48, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree that this comment doesn't really have any relevance to the discussion at hand. Isopropyl 00:00, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Elkman is the person who created that article, he writes a lot about Minnesota, and he was ironically expressing regret that he had given the participants in this latest spat a further opportunity to engage in warring. --Tony Sidaway 00:39, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Technically, Jonathunder first violated Remedy 6 of that ruling (I've no idea if he was aware of it, mind you), and then SPUI vio'd #2.1, and #6 too (which of course he certainly was). Then add in some tagging/tag-reversion silliness to boot. I'm with Tony on calling this one "fair warning fodder", given the digs on both sides, but would support (and implement) escalating enforcement if this continues. Alai 04:45, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I violated the probation by moving it from pink fuzzy bunnies? I think not. --SPUI (T - C) 21:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

The user and the administrators in this artile must be checked. The stile, substance, ect. of the articel are total serbian propagander. The articel has more mitology history then the history of Kosovo. Any way there is a article History of Kosovo. The editor in this articel are serbs or serbians supporters and they don know noting about Kosovos geography, cultur, ekonomy ect. This articel is "bloced" from many user names with irelevant poits (For they is more importen the history befor 1000 (Not it!! there are no documents only from Serbian side about this time, albanians documenst was burned since 1912) then the history in our time). Before one month it was big Edit War, not for the argumets but the serbians users block every inicitiativ witch has not to do with serbians. They are more users here or they are working for the Serbian goverment and they have maked a net here in Wikipedia with many users accounts (see all articels about Serbia, there are for each thing twise one for the "hero" and one for "inesans" serbian). My big problem is thate the administrators witch are impëemented in this articel are supporting serbian users. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.158.254.169 (talk • contribs)

FYI, this appears to be User:Hipi Zhdripi editing without signing in for some reason. -- ChrisO 21:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

FYI. I blocked this user indefintely for threatening to sue us because we deleted his trash blatant advertising. Administrators, please reference [62]] for evidence.--Kungfu Adam ^(talk) 14:32, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

If anyone feels this is too harsh, feel free to act accordingly.--Kungfu Adam ^(talk) 14:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Strongly support the block. I wonder if they're going to sue us in a federal court in Trenton, New Jersey? User:Zoe|^(talk) 15:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

The block seems entirely justified to me. Blatant spamvertising and a legal threat - nice! -- ChrisO 22:01, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

• 213.122.105.226 (talk · contribs)
• 213.122.82.45 (talk · contribs)
• 213.122.53.86 (talk · contribs)
• 172.215.88.163 (talk · contribs)
• 82.47.185.39 (talk · contribs)

Harassment and personal attacks have occurred under the sub-heading "Comments by members of The Highgate Vampire Society." The offenders have all received warnings which they have ignored and indeed treated with contempt. These unregistered users are attacking someone who is not me, is not the topic under discussion, and someone who is not contributing to the discussion as they falsely claim. Furthermore, they are introducing insults and defamatory comments which have no bearing or relationship to the topic under discussion. They have effectively hijacked this discussion page to pursue a vendetta against someone mentioned in the original article who is an author and exorcist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vampire Research Society (talk • contribs)

From what I can tell the primary editors of this article are also the authors of the references for the article:

• David Farrant claims edits by 172.215.88.163
• Vampire Research Society self identifies as supporting the views of the organization headed by Sean Manchester
• Catherine Fearnley claims edits by 213.122.114.239
• Barbara Green claims edits by 82.47.185.39

are involved in this editing dispute. I propose this be deleted and protected from recreation for the following reasons:

• There seems to be no independent references
• The article is about an event involving living persons that are borderline notable
• The article can be easily recreated if still notable in 10-20 years.

I would just list on AfD myself, I hesitate only because of my unfamiliarity with the subject thus I am requesting addditional views --Trödel 14:28, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, I've been following and trying to "moderate" the discussion there for a month now (most of the time without logging in), and I'm tempted to say "yes, delete it" (in fact I've proposed it on the talk page), so as to get it off my hands, but I'm not sure whether it would be quite fair to those who have worked on the article. Also, you aren't apparaising the situation quite accurately. The editor who initially created the page was a folklore researcher, Jacqueline Simpson, who had based her text mostly on two texts by another folklore researcher, Bill Ellis. Neither is exactly mainstream or notable (while being members of various folklore societies, they don't seem to have academical degrees in these subjects), but they were not involved in the vampire hunts either. Next, User:Vampire Research Society appeared, still unregistered and using multiple IPs, and started a very aggressive polemic against Ellis and Simpson on the talk page, while at the same time vandalizing the article in accordance with his POV (that vampires exist and Manchester kills them). Eventually the article was semi-protected and his IPs were blocked. Afterwards he got his present account and started pointing out various perceived or real factual inaccuracies (which I found rather insignificant). These have been corrected when acknowledged by the other two editors of the article - Simpson and/or me. Since he was accusing Farrant of various faults and crimes, Farrant et al. appeared and started making counter-accusations. That's about it. I'm not sure what the conclusions should be. I am sure that the article/talk page is in constant need of admin attention because of the fact that the main "characters" of the story are extremely active online. --Anonymous44 19:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the history - I'll help monitor the discussion - I hadn't read the article itself very thoroughly - was more focused on trying to identify the alleged personal attacks that were on the personal attack noticeboard. I think a good course of action would be to delete the accusations on the talk page - or archive them since

Refactoring seems out of vogue, and see where things go from there. --Trödel

21:07, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Archiving them would probably be a relief, although they're going to produce another 100 kilobytes of accusations in no time. But how do we tell the difference between personal attacks and simple discussion of the contents of the article? The accusations are, at the same time, at least possibly relevant material for the article. For example, Vapire Research Society justified his endless diatribes against Farrant by using them to prove that Farrant shouldn't be used as a source for the article. And vice versa. --Anonymous44 22:18, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Misrepresentation continues even above. User:Anonymous44 has claimed that our view is that "vampires exist and Manchester kills them." This is misleading and untrue. The VRS certainly accepts the existence of predatory demons and Bishop Manchester certainly exorcises them, but exorcism is not "killing." Supernatural entities cannot be "killed." They can only be cast our or removed from where they occupy. Anyone doing their homework will be aware that David Farrant and his two female helpers, Catherine Fearnely and Barbara Green, stalk Bishop Manchester and the Vampire Research Society on the internet and once found start posting extreme abuse, fabriction and libel. This they have done on the talk page where Jacqueline Simpson, the original article's authoress, consequently stopped contributing (though she has recently addressed something to 194.145.161.227 that is not Farrant related). Likewise, the Vampire Research Society also announced that it will make no further contributions to the talk page whilst Farrant and company are posting defamation and malicious falsehood. The reason the VRS was obliged to refer to Farrant in the discussion was due to Simpson's emphasis on his alleged part in the Highgate Vampire case in her article. There were inaccuracies which needed addressing. Source references, published court reports etc, were provided by the Vampire Research Society and reminders of glaring errors in Bill Ellis' published account where Bishop Manchester and David Farrant are mentioned. These were not views or original research. They are factual inaccuracies for which supporting evidence was made available. Jacqueline Simpson and Bill Ellis have both been offered archive material which includes recorded interviews with Farrant from 1970 and thereabouts. They have shown no interest in taking up this offer which was first made in 1996 and has been repeated down the years. This material would oblige them to alter what they have published as "fact." Farrant is a compulsive liar. This is not just our view. He was declared so by magistrates, judges, juries and journalists throughout the 1970s, which is the relevant period. Notwithstanding the mistakes in Ellis' and Simpson's accounts, Farrant has many criminal convictions, some relating to desecration and vandalism in Highgate Cemetery, others relating to threatening witnesses with black magic in a sex case, and was sentenced to four years and eight months in 1974. Bishop Manchester and executive members of the VRS (of which I am one), on the other hand, have no criminal convictions; though you would not know it from the way we are treated on Wikipedia. The offensive and potentially libellous comments from Farrant, Fearnley and Green remain on the talk page and, moerover, have been added to after Simpson and the VRS disengaged.

Vampire Research Society 27 July 2006

I would respectfully request that an administrator help Qho understand that a number of his contributions to user discussion pages have been inappropriate. I attempted politely to warn him but was rebuffed, with behavior typifying his manner of postings. You may review his user contributions in the past several days to notice what he has been doing on several user pages [64]. Thanks. Ptmccain 18:56, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

• I'll keep an eye on him. It looks like someone blocked him for a day. If he doesn't shape up in awhile, I'll step in. --Improv 19:13, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. Ptmccain 19:14, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I have decided to give him 24-hour block to cool off and given a notice. Since it's my first non-trivial block (i.e. not directly vandalism-related), I'd be happy with a review of my action.

13 ^{T C}

19:23, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I have past experience with her and think that this is simply a learning curve deal, but I don't think a 24-hour block was out of line given the amount of communication Ptmccain had with her previously, especially given that I narrowly dragged her away from a civility block earlier.—WAvegetarian•(talk) 20:56, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Userbox {{User WP Anime}} needs to be restored as it was arbitrarily deleted and salted without a TfD notice or a notice to WikiProject Anime and manga. --TheFarix (Talk) 20:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

• As I noted when I gave notice that I deleted it, I'll give you the contents so you can move it to userspace if you like. --Improv 20:31, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

That isn't a valid deletion criteria. I would appreciate it if you stopped encouraging a setup that results in the decentralisation of copyvios.Geni 20:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I am not aware of any official policy to userfy all userboxes. I've seen a proposal for it, but certainly not any confirmation. It was your duty to ensure the deletion did not have any adverse effect or go against consensus, which you clearly did not even attempt. WikiProject userboxes have been, asfar as I know, sanctionned by the userbox-related guidelines. Circeus 20:37, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Err, the German solution calls for the box to be userfied before deletion (for fairly obvious reasons), and WikiProject userboxes are among the few types that most people would consider as actually being beneficial to the encyclopedia. Why exactly did you delete this again? Kirill Lokshin 20:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, you're right in that this is a project userbox -- I was too hasty in this deletion, and have undone it. --Improv 20:45, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you.

Out of curiosity, I recall that the German solution at one point included a provision to move WikiProject boxes to project-space (e.g.

Wikipedia:WikiProject Anime and manga/Userbox). Has this been taken out? Kirill Lokshin

20:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Not only did the deletion of the project userbox play havoc

WP:Anime's membership list Category:WikiProject Anime and manga participants, but you had also removed the alternative instructions on the project page about how Wikipedias can list themselves as part of the project using the argument that "Userboxen are passé". [65] --TheFarix (Talk

) 20:57, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Damn it, this is the sixth time I've attempt to post this!! TheFarix (Talk)

Interestingly enough I was gonna add this probably right after it got deleted in a weird coincidence without even knowing about this debate here but it spurred me to an interesting solution which I have adopted on all my non purely wiki-action based userboxes (languages and such excluded), I have converted all of them to pure cats which I think is the better solution and would suggest people do if they'd rather not deal with userfying hundreds of lines of userbox code. Pegasus1138^{Talk | Contribs | Email} ---- 21:09, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

This didn't belong at ANI, by the way. --Cyde↔Weys 21:57, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree Cyde, it should have been taken to DRV but you have to admit that taking this to AN/I instead of DRV got more input and got the job done faster than DRV ever would have, maybe AN would have been better though. Pegasus1138^{Talk | Contribs | Email} ---- 22:02, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

You're right, and I could get a lot more immediate attention if a brought a category renaming here instead of

WP:CFD, but this is simply the wrong venue. --Cyde↔Weys

22:39, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

As much as I can attempt to do so, I tried to give my criticism to 219.91.203.71 in a civilized manner, yet he just not accept my criticism and repeat what I say. While I appreciate his edits in certain areas of the website overall, perhaps I tried to work a couple of "things" to make sure he's not repetitive and/or more condensed in his weight, and he's not appreciative in the criticism that I've given him in a civilized manner. — Vesther (U * T/R * CTD) 22:11, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to contact me (details in box on top) if you need someone to give him a friendly nudge. I'm on IRC right now. --mboverload@ 22:37, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I've had a quick read and I think he's just trying to have a giggle with you, there's lots of "lol"s etc. He may not be appreciative of your criticism but although it's constructive, some people don't appreciate any type of criticism. I think the best thing you can do is ignore him and keep an eye of him to see if he starts getting offensive with other editors. Englishrose 23:01, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Could somebody with the proper authority remove the history of this attack page? User:Zoe|^(talk) 22:48, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

And the same thing at Peter MCcoy, please? User:Zoe|^(talk) 22:49, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

oversight application. The pages are already deleted and not available to non-admins. ~Kylu (u|t

) 01:24, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

So you don't mind that they contain claims that the subjects have committed illegallities, without a single source? User:Zoe|^(talk) 01:41, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Zoe, I'm afraid that what I mind and don't mind have nothing to do with the fact that the articles in question do not, to the general public, exist. Oversight, in fact, still doesn't remove the revisions, it only hides them, the same way as they're currently hidden since the articles are deleted. The only difference is that you, being an admin, can review the content regardless of the fact that they're deleted.

Oversight is approved for use in exactly three cases, and I would refer you to

WP:BEANS

applies), then an oversight request can be sent in to us, but at the moment it does not appear to warrant such attention.

While I dislike attack pages of all sorts, there's nothing differentiating this one from the thousands of others which have been deleted already, so it does not require oversight attention. If you still disagree, feel free to contact one of the users listed on the oversight page and ask them. I'm sorry. ~Kylu (u|t) 02:53, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Kylu is correct here; apparent libel is not enough to oversight a page's history. However, if the subject (or a legal representative) requests its removal or it becomes an WP:OFFICE issue, then oversight may be used.

Voice-of-All

04:50, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

A strange request was left on the

Note: The "personal information" that was left appears to be an extract from a WHOIS lookup, [66] though these may be the contact details for a small ISP or business rather than the individual editor. Road Wizard 23:24, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Nonetheless, the IP address is clearly being harassed, and that should probably be looked at. It seems the IP was removing such edits that were harassing him and is being punished for that, which is also why I brought this here as things seem a bit iffy.

Cowman109^Talk

23:30, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be best to have a removal of this personal info from the edit history, in order to protect this person from further harassment. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 01:16, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

There is definitely something unusual and inappropriate going on there. The all caps typing and unusual messages makes me think he needs a time-out or someone needs to have a chat with him. The posting of personal information (whether or not it actually was, its the attempt that counts) bothers me though and certainly needs to be looked at. He admits here [67] to his behaviour and I note no ban, yet the IP was banned for 48 hours. Even with the IP being uncivil, this user still went ahead and tried to put personal information on the page.--

Crossmr

06:44, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I was the admin who blocked the anonymous user. This should absolutely not be taken to imply that I condoned Qho's behaviour. My dealings were with the anonymous user who engaged in a number of disruptive edits. I am glad that someone else looked into Qho's edits. While I am not convinced that posting a country of origin (essentially, whois information) constitutes a personal attack, many of this user's other edits may have constituted such an attack (and apparently did as he was blocked). Thank you. --Yamla 03:54, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I just indefinitely blocked Pat8722 (talk · contribs). I feel that his continual confrontation, insults, and misinterpretation of Wikipedia policy is quite disruptive. I briefly blocked this editor before. If you feel this block is in error, please let me know. Background information is available at User talk:Pat8722 and especially at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Pat8722. — Knowledge Seeker দ 19:59, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I am unconvinced that Pat's behavior rises to the level meriting an indefinite block. Could you explain in more detail why you think it does? JoshuaZ 21:15, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

A couple of observations: first, if you've been involved in disputes with this user before you shouldn't really be the one issuing the block, and second, it might be more appropriate to start a

request for arbitration if this user has already been through an RfC. I do agree with JoshuaZ's comment that an indefinite block seems overly harsh for what you describe - it's a big escalation from a "brief" block earlier. -- ChrisO

22:04, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

All right; I've taken your comments into account and released the block on him for now. Yes, of course, Chris; Pat and I have not been involved in editing the same articles and aside from the matter for which I blocked him, I do not believe we have encountered each other. — Knowledge Seeker দ 05:40, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I recently ran across a number of personal attacks, via talk pages, hidden comments in articles, and edit summaries, by Machchunk (

I just went & looked at his user page: childish and intentionally offensive, "If you for some reason are reading this, then I probably hate you. [...] Go home, little boy.". A brief perusal of his contributions, esp to Daft Punk, show no benefit to the encyclopedia of keeping this editor around. Pete.Hurd 22:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

His user page alone says it all. Once a user gets a block and continues with the same shit all AGF is gone. --mboverload@ 22:39, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

He claims to be a "webmesiter" on ebaumsworldsucks. I don't know the forum, so how confrontational are they? User:Zoe|^(talk) 22:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

At a glance, fairly confrontational. -Hit bull, win steak^(Moo!) 01:26, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, given another abusive edit summary and rude response to a different admin, I'm reblocking him for a week. If another admin thinks it was excessive or premature and wants to shorten the time, I won't wheel war with you — I just don't see any evidence that this user intends to act in a rational manner here. Tijuana Brass^¡Épa! 04:05, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

New User:Marler Clark been adding links on multiple pages on food poisoning causing bacteria to their "www.about-" pages (eg http://www.about-salmonella.com) - which are produced by the law firm Marler Clark. This is clearly spamming, adding links to ones own web sites, and possibly a group vs individual user account (depending whether "Marler Clark" is an individual head of the legal firm in question, two individuals of "Marler" and "Clark" or a group within the firm). Could an admin do the undo all-last edits tool-thing you have, and decide about the validity of the user (eg its a bit like having a User:Pepsi) ? David Ruben ^Talk 01:03, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

All edits reverted by User:Tom harrison. User:Marler Clark seems to have stopped after being warned. Thank you! ~Kylu (u|t) 06:45, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I was asked by a user I believe is underage what my sexuality is. I do not feel this is a personal attack or anything but it makes me profoundly uncomfortable to be asked this by a user who is underage. Now, I have no intention of discussing my sexuality, religion, or political views here on Wikipedia with anyone, it is not the right forum. But I am concerned when the discussion turns this way when the person engaging me in conversation is under age. Does anyone know of an article on Wikipedia or a reliable article on the Internet generally where I could direct such users which would warn them of the dangers without sounding like I'm going totally off the deep end (as I probably am in this paragraph)? --Yamla 04:01, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I personally proclaim it on my userpage because otherwise I'm answering questions all the time; there's nothing, in my opinion, wrong with them *knowing* that you're straight, gay, bisexual, or whatever else, it's when it crosses into actual discussion ("What does..." "Have you..." "How do you...") that it becomes problematic. There are probably documents online with the Center for Missing and Exploited Children that discuss safe internet practices, you might check there. Essjay (Talk) 04:24, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

This article from education-world might help. ~Kylu (u|t) 04:28, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I just reverted what seemed like random insertions of <nowiki> in

I think it's a shared IP, and I only see two strange edits recently, both of which have been reverted.

type

11:56, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

EasterGeorge has been spamming an exteral link to a white supremacist article on a number of pages, as well as mentioning said white supremacist's book in the "References" or "Further Reading" of various articles (this is the first time I've encountered "refspam"). I left spam template tags on his Talk page, and his response was to harass me by e-mail. When told that he should leave remarks on Talk page, not contact editors by e-mail, he continued to e-mail me. CRCulver 13:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, we can't prove whether emails were or were not sent, but the contribution list is good enough for me. Spam-only account, indefinitely blocked. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 16:25, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Several users, apparently school kids from the Baltimore area, have been salting Wikipedia with hoaxes for a long time now. They started with many, many articles on a supposedly famous American familiy called the Eyre/Heller/Peters "dynasty", all of which have been deleted now. Today

Review also

And Having Writ Hipocrite - «Talk»

16:55, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

First Family of the United States. Also watch User:70.35.97.241. User:Zoe|^(talk)

17:00, 26 July 2006 (UTC)