Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1075

Aoi has sent me a warning for no reason falsely accusing me of unconstructive edits and my edits were constructive Gun Control suppresses gun rights which is a human right in the US Constitution

Aoi has also been edit warring and reverting me for no reason leaving no reason Or edit summary at all I need a moderator to help me Dirkbb also edit warred and also neither of them sought consensus to remove my edits so thats also illegal a mod should warn or block them for edit warring, editing without consensus, and Aoi for giving me fake warn — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2D80:5E81:5D00:48BC:AD35:20BA:46E3 (talk • contribs)

Do you also have pronounced feelings on boomerang rights? Dumuzid (talk) 22:14, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

What does that mean — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2D80:5E81:5D00:48BC:AD35:20BA:46E3 (talk • contribs)

It means that you should perhaps peruse

WP:BOOMERANG. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk

) 22:16, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

IP editor, you made edits, but have been reverted. You should now make a proposal at the article talk page. If you convince editors that your wording is an improvement, the article will be changed. If you don't, it won't. There is nothing here requiring administrative attention yet. Girth Summit _(blether) 22:18, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Aight bet but why did they revert me without consensus I demand to know because my edit was correct — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2D80:5E81:5D00:48BC:AD35:20BA:46E3 (talk • contribs)

They apparently thought it was not correct; that's how consensus works. Now it's on you to persuade them or enough other people to make your changes. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 22:22, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you IP editor, I've always wondered what it felt like to be dragged to ANI. Aoi (青い) (talk) 22:42, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

You know what you are being passive aggressive and no defense you don't even deny edit warring or reverting my edits for no reason or giving me a fake warning I started a discussion on the talk page

IP person, learning to indent would be a big help to all of us here, and you have sort of started at 90% aggression. You might want to scale that back a bit. Talk things through. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk) 22:51, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

I'm sorry we started on the wrong foot here I will calm down I just get angry when people don't care

I strongly suggest that any further discussion take place at the article talk page, and that it be focused on the content in question and not the contributors. There is no administrative action required at this point. Girth Summit _(blether) 22:55, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

IP editor, please read about the

neutral point of view. Wikipedia does not take a stance on political controversies. We are neutral and that is not going to change. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it

22:57, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Also, it's not that people don't care--it's how we do things around here. There's even a name for it:

WP:BRD. No one is trying to make you angry or deny what you have to say. But you do need to realize that when you want to change an article, it's on you to convince people that your change makes things better. I'll warn you right now that it's not always an easy task. Don't take it personally if you get reverted--just start putting together your argument. Cheers. Dumuzid (talk

) 22:58, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

• Xtinageorge (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Xtinageorge has approximately 140 edits, almost all of which consist of adding books by John Maxwell Hamilton to BLPs (apparently to any name ever mentioned in one of Hamilton's books), and almost all of which have been reverted, plus a handful of edits to Hamilton's article which have been revdel'd.

Xtinageorge was warned about spam links twice by me in January 2021 (User talk: Xtinageorge#"Further reading") and about COI by DuncanHill in January 2021 (User talk: Xtinageorge#Managing a conflict of interest). Xtinageorge stopped editing for several months, then started up again today spamming the same books, and was warned by Doctormatt.

Xtinageorge has never posted on a user or article talk page. There is no indication whether this editor even knows about their talk page or seen the warnings. Could an admin block them long enough to make them engage with other editors so they can learn why their edits are inappropriate? Schazjmd (talk) 20:32, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

They are doing it logged out as well. See edits of 2600:8807:305:CC00:B0F0:D5A9:4493:DF2E and 73.184.68.142. There may be more. I am still looking. Notfrompedro (talk) 21:17, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Stevenmevans (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) I suspect the user named above is involved in paid editing without valid disclosure under the WMF Terms of Use (

The singular focus on this obscure literary agent is certainly suspicious, as is the link provided and the user sandbox stating "Intern at Eve White Literary Agency".--Eostrix  (^{🦉 hoot} _hoot🦉) 11:57, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

For info: Discovered this after I put a speedy delete on the draft and a paid editing notice on the draft's talk page. 86.162.136.151 (talk) 12:56, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

• The user has attempted to declare their COI.[2] Bishonen | tålk 13:46, 6 August 2021 (UTC).
  • Clearly one of many young people who are given a job to do in the belief that it's menial and requires no skill or previous knowledge of Wikipedia. No action necessary at present. Deb (talk) 16:35, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

    Deb, have I ever told you that you're awesome? You just cut straight through all our acronym mumbo-jumbo to the heart of the matter. Kudos. Girth Summit _(blether) 23:08, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Please see here and here. Ymblanter has blocked Marek and GCB for edit warring, despite the editor in question not being eligible to edit on the topic in question as they are way below the 500/30 threshold. Which is *specifically* exempt from edit warring. If they arnt unblocked with either an apology (I dont care who apologises, I doubt Ymblanter will proffer one themself) the next step will be ARBCOM to request Ymblanter's tools are removed. Only in death does duty end (talk) 20:04, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, I got enough baid faith towards myself today, and, in addition, OID was very clear for many years that they want my tools removed does not matter what, but I do not see why some users should be exempt from blocks for four reverts.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:09, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes I want your tools removed. You lack sufficient knowledge to use them properly and it results in abuse. The restrictions (and where edit warring doesnt apply) around 500/30 editing requirements are very very clear and an admin should be well aware of when they do and do not apply. You clearly do not. I am willing to let it go once again if you apologise to both Marek and GCB and lift the blocks. Or another admin does, but this blatant incompetence when it comes to basic knowledge of how a topic restriction works should not continue. 'Bad faith' in this context by the way would be assuming that you made a bad block, realised it when someone pointed out the 500/30 requirement, and decided to cover it up by blocking the editor who complained. That would be assuming bad faith. I am granting you the more likely explanation that you acted out of ignorance rather than maliciousness. Only in death does duty end (talk) 20:17, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

I support an unblock. PhilKnight (talk) 20:15, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Unblock sooner than later please. but I do not see why some users should be exempt from blocks for four reverts. Any admin who can't be bothered to read

WP:3RRNO has got problems. MarnetteD|Talk

20:21, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

The 500/30 requirement is not listed at

WP:3RRNO. PackMecEng (talk

) 20:53, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

@

WP:GS [3]. As I stated on my talk page, I intend to file a request for clarification with ArbCom on the wording of the restriction. Volunteer Marek

21:13, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Yeah looks like it could use an update. I would probably support that! PackMecEng (talk) 22:12, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

This should go straight to ARBCOM for a de-sysop, period.--WaltCip-(talk) 20:27, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

The exemption is for the articles, this is not an article. The arbcom was very clear by writing "articles" rather than "pages", and had a good reason for this, since otherwise revert of discussions from talk pages, for example, would be exempt from 3RR.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:29, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Ok, I am too old for this. I completely disagree with the unblock, but I do not want to get to a hospital again. I will unblock. Next time, anybody starts talking about lack of admin, lack of gut, inability to look into difficult cases, remember this case, please. If I am still alive, I will be around to remind you.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:32, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

@Only in death does duty end, Did you discuss extensively with Ymblanter before bringing this here? ANI's are literally the last option if the plethora of trying to use other venues to settle differences and queries amicably are exhausted. Furthermore I see the mention of ARBCOM?? Come on! Now that’s rather uncalled for and don’t you think that’s rather harsh and comes off as “threatening” ? Celestina007 (talk) 20:52, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

No, as Ymblanter is never open to reasoned discussion when they make an obviously wrong action, and their histrionics directly above should give you a decent idea of what their concept of appropriate behaviour is. They already had sufficient discussion on the talkpages of both Marek and GCD and had declined to unblock on the request of another admin. So yes, the appropriate place is ANI for an ongoing incident that needs a quick resolution. And yes, the consequences of their actions being unresolved would be Arbcom, because said earlier discussion had already failed to get them to see reason. There are almost zero actions an ordinary editor can take. Laying out the consequences of your actions may come across as threatening, but then when you treat people like shit, do not expect to get the kid gloves in return. Only in death does duty end (talk) 21:02, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

@Only in death does duty end, so in summary do you believe you both can’t resolve this amicably? I’m pained when genuine and hardworking very productive editors like yourself and Ymblanter have disputes, honestly it is very much saddening. Celestina007 (talk) 00:24, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

@Celestina007 Just a note that while it is usually best practice to discuss things before taking them here, whatever - if any - issues OID and YMB have, an unjust block should be dealt with ASAP since the real victims here is an editor (editors) who got unjustly blocked. It would be totally unfair for them to wait days for action (if any) while this was limited to a talk page discussion which could be simply ignored for days or stalled or whatever (no bad faith assumed, simply noting admins can block someone and then be afk for some time, for example). As a review of an admin's action that requires possibly urgent action (unblock) it was totally right for OID to bring this here, IMHO. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:28, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

@Piotrus, Yes, I understand that part, the part that has me worried is Only in death does duty end saying he wants Ymblanter to lose their admin bits (note that this are both very productive editors) and the mention of ARBCOM also is upsetting (to me) It’s saddening when productive editors are at loggerheads. Furthermore I don’t think the mention of ARBCOM was necessary, more often than not I think we both can predict accurately what the verdict would be if a case was to be accepted. @Ymblanter, if you can, please just apologize to the relevant parties and to OID especially. We regular editors all make mistakes, and sysops do too as we are all human in the end. Celestina007 (talk) 17:46, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

@Celestina007 I think that (referring to "Ymblanter, if you can, please just apologize to the relevant parties") would be the best solution. There is no need for any community actions or sanctions if one acknowledges their mistake and apologizes, to be human is to err. What does worries me, however, is that the comments I've seen from Ymblanter suggests that they don't view their actions as wrong. Not being able to admit one has made a mistake and apologize for it is worrisome in any editor, and doubly so in admin, who has the power to block and delete. With power comes responsibility and the need to be responsible. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:15, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

I'd argue that Only in death's behavior has been nothing short of appalling itself. They have taken every opportunity to insult Ymblanter and be as uncivil as humanly possible, with their kindest contribution to this report being, "I am granting you the more likely explanation that you acted out of ignorance rather than maliciousness". Ymblanter's blocks were poorly conducted, yet that is no excuse for an editor to be personally

vindictive. BOTTO _(T•C

) 17:09, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Botto, I haven't had time to review OID's behavior, although there is undeniably a tension between those editors, to say the least. Nonetheless, "two wrongs don't make a right"; if you feel OID's behavior merits review, I'd suggest a new section or thread; here we are talking about Ymblanter's blocking of two editors and aftermath. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:12, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

I do not want to get to a hospital again and If I am still alive are extremely alarming. I encourage a break - participating in Wikipedia should never provoke such fearful comments. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 20:49, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

• Well, we got most of the way there, but the unblock rationale was really unacceptable ("I want to stay alive"). Does anyone mind if I block each of them for 1 second, making clear they were unblocked because the block was against policy, not because Ymblanter wanted to "stay alive"? Especially, @Volunteer Marek: and @GizzyCatBella:, would you prefer such a notice in your block log? It's trading off clarifying you shouldn't have been blocked for an incrementally longer block log. I won't put such a note in your block logs if you don't want it. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:43, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

@Floquenbeam: I'm fine with it. Volunteer Marek 20:55, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

@Floquenbeam: - I’m also fine with it. Thank you. - GizzyCatBella🍁 00:28, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

@Volunteer Marek: Since you're unblocked, there's no need to immediately provide this note, so I'll wait until tomorrow if that's OK. That will give Ymblanter a chance to do it themselves, or if not, will provide a more complete ANI discussion for me to link to, or will provide a chance for someone to point out I've completely misunderstood the situation and it wouldn't be appropriate. And it gives me time to grill some steaks (and then eat them), which I've been looking forward to all day. Not trying to weasel out of anything; I'm just postponing until tomorrow. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:38, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

That's fine too. Bon apetit. Volunteer Marek 22:25, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

@

WP:OVERSIGHTed since it can even create a mistaken impression death threats were involved or such. While I honestly haven't interacted with or reviewed other actions by the blocking admin, anyone who makes a bad block and then an unblock with such an edit summary is certainly ripe for having their admin status scrutinized (with a nod to the de-sysop comments above). Anyway, I also support your idea of a re-un-block which a good rationale (ideally a link to this discussion when it is archived, but that may require waiting for this to be closed and archived? It probably would be most informative). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here}

03:33, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

I have blocked and unblocked VM and GCB adding a proper rationale.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:44, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Apparently it is here. CGB was blocked after their only revert, VM was blocked after 4 reverts of a sock. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:58, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Wow. No warnings to either party at all before 3RR was breached? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:01, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Has the account been blocked as a sock? Ncmvocalist (talk) 21:05, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

I cant see the point tbh. Its clearly either one of the banned users in relation to Poland/WW2/Jews (which isnt a long list), or a clueless IP who just doesnt know they cant edit on the topic. Marek made it clear in the edit summaries that the editor was prohibited, and given the content, its almost certainly one of the Jewish anti-Polish editors. They will be back somewhere else soon enough. Regardless, the editor fails 500/30 for editing in a restricted area and so can be reverted on sight exempt from edit-warring. Only in death does duty end (talk) 21:09, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Ah, I see, so warnings are not even appropriate. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:13, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, I think a warning was required to at least signal that an administrator felt that the 500/30 exemption didn't apply because it is Wikipedia-space rather than article-space in which the reverts were being made. That would provide an opportunity for one of the editors to cease reverting, seek clarification if required and/or justify the basis of the block. The clear absence of that was what made this review open and shut. Ncmvocalist (talk) 21:23, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Here is the relevant language from Wikipedia:General sanctions that Volunteer Marek was relying on Under the 30/500 rule, all IP editors, and accounts with fewer than 500 edits and with less than 30 days' tenure are prohibited from editing content within a given area of conflict. It can be enforced through the use of extended confirmed protection (ECP) or other methods, including page protection, reverts, blocks, the use of pending changes, and appropriate edit filters. Reverts made solely to enforce the 30/500 rule are not considered edit warring. Editors who are not eligible to be extended-confirmed may use the Talk: namespace to post constructive comments and make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive. Talk pages where disruption occurs may be managed by any of the methods noted above. This exception does not apply to other internal project discussions such as AfDs, WikiProjects, RfCs, noticeboard discussions, etc. If this information page is accurate, then Ymblanter is incorrect when they wrote The exemption is for the articles, this is not an article. As I read the language, the only place where an editor who does not meet the 30/500 threshold can edit about topics such as this is on article talk pages, and nowhere else on the project. Accordingly, Volunteer Marek was correct to revert these edits which were adding Warsaw concentration camp to Wikipedia:List of hoaxes on Wikipedia since that editor is not permitted to do so according to the information page about General sanctions. If the information page is in error, it should be corrected promptly. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 21:28, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

A summary of this language should probably be added to

WP:3RRNO, which currently makes no mention of an exception for the 30/500 rule. Pawnkingthree (talk

) 00:29, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

• The 500/30 restriction stems from an arbitration case,
  WP:ARCA, to ask whether the remedy only apply to articles or if it applies to all namespaces. ArbCom rulings are one place where language and precision matters, and this one genuinely seems unclear. (Of course, this point is separate from whether the editors should've been blocked for it, and due to the very small distinction, and given that the editors gave their rationale in the edit summary, I think the admin should've realised there was an ambiguity here and ideally decided to get it cleared up, or at worst went the warning route rather than the block route.) ProcrastinatingReader (talk
  ) 21:35, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
  • More: I took a peek to check what the precedent from other arb cases is. The only other arbitration case to authorise 500/30 is Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4, which used an entirely different structure to its general sanctions remedies than the usual case. That one indeed applies in all namespaces, but it explicitly says so (edits relating to the Arab-Israeli conflict, to pages and discussions in all namespaces with the exception of userspace). ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 21:45, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
    • Yes, I think a clarification from ArbCom would be useful here. Volunteer Marek 22:27, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
      • I have asked for clarification at ARCA. — Wug·a·po·des​ 02:27, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Some may be wondering what Ymblanter was talking about when he mentioned tag-teaming by GCB and VM. Running Editor Interaction Analyser (Volunteer Marek, GizzyCatBella) lists the following pages that both VM and GCB edited on the same day (collapsed due to length):

I make no comment about whether or not 30/500 applies to that page/that content, but I will say generally that while I think Ymblanter's concerns are well-founded (per the above), a warning first would have been better than straight to a block. (And I hope he feels better soon.) Levivich 02:38, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Dude. As you very very very well know, both GCB and myself have been targeted with some very odious harassment (including violent threats against my family etc) by THE VERY SAME EDITOR. And then by his socks. Since you defended that editor over the course of the ArbCom case which led to his topic ban, and then participated extensively in the aftermath of that ArbCom case which led to his global ban, you are FULLY AWARE of the background here and cannot plead ignorance. Which means that YOU KNOW there's a very good reason why I would look at GCB's edits and talk page and why she would most likely do the same. It's the SAME SOCKS showing up on articles we both edits. Yet here you are pretending as if there's something nefarious going on BY THE EDITORS WHO HAVE BEEN TARGETS OF ABUSE. Way to enable abusers and blame the victims Levivich. Volunteer Marek 05:11, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

And if you're gonna try to play that game, then here you go [4]. Wanna explain that one? Volunteer Marek 06:04, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

So GCB was blocked over one revert, but

@

WP:DUCK given the extensive socking in this TA that led to 30/500 and like). Blocking established editors while ignoring a likely sock raises further question's about once competency as an admin, to say it bluntly. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here}

04:25, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

I am not going to make this call. I am not a CU, and I will now stay clear from any DUCK blocks probably for years ahead.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:44, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Ymblanter, I am not saying you should have blocked Kowkaw; it's perfectly excusable not to be knowledgeable about the socks and likely masters in this TA. What I don't understand is, however, why you felt that VM and GCB deserve blocks and Kowkaw does not? Weren't they "edit waring" equally? Why block just the established editors and let the newbie scoff-free, without even a warning? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:56, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

The whole story started with VM and GCB reverting users in good standing, not Kowkaw. I actually warned VM to stop edit-warring before Kowkaw even showed up, but they went on to four reverts.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:00, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Your timeline doesn't work. VM was not edit-warring (if that's even an applicable term here) before Kowkaw showed up.

LEPRICAVARK (talk

) 11:56, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

I checked the timeline, you are right, I warned them after their second revert (the first their revert of Kowkaw). Actually, even after the second revert by Kowkaw, but I probably have not seen that one yet.--Ymblanter (talk) 12:04, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Ymblanter, Can you provide the diffs for that edit warring? And I also can't seem to find the warning? Maybe I am looking at the wrong page(s), but I can only see a single revert by GCB at that hoax list, and I can't see any warnings you issued to them before the block? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:18, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I am lost now. Are we discussing VM or GCB? These are two different stories as far as I am concerned. All edit warring I know of is on one page, and you have by now also participated there.--Ymblanter (talk) 13:21, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

I don't understand what is so difficult in answering my question. Please tell me - and the community - on which page or pages each of the two editors you blocked violated 3RR (or 1RR if applicable), and please link diffs to the warnings you claimed above to have given them. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:19, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Let us to postpone this until after the Arbcom at least has decided whether they are going to have the full case or not.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:39, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Why would a simple clarification require a full case? Volunteer Marek 17:17, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

I do not know, but you are on that page as well, and there are people if not arguing for then at least seriously discussing the full case.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:22, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

The Arbs aren’t - they seem to be sticking to the issue at hand. All you got there is one or two editors (one of them posting in violation of their IBAN) who are trying to hijack a simple clarification request to agitate for a new case because they think a new case will “rehabilitate” Icewhiz (there is no world in which that would happen. It’s not like the ArbCom will be all like “oh you made death threats against multiple editors and threatened to hurt their families but you still have a couple friends on Wikipedia so we’ll forgive you and let you back”) Volunteer Marek 18:04, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

We will see. This is not my call anyway.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:07, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

LEPRICAVARK (talk

) 21:18, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

It has to be postponed because if the full case is open (which indeed looks unlikely at the moment) it will be part of my defense, and I have to be very careful about what I am saying. Especially since I still have serious convcentration problems. ANI is not a good place to deal with these issues, but if the ARCA does not result in a full case I will provide the timeline here with the diffs. Concerning your second question - VM made four reverts, their opponent made three at the time of the block, and we have

WP:3RR. Note that the two users reverting VM and GCB are not blocked (to be exact, were not blocked last time I checked), though we have a bunch of admins in this very thread.--Ymblanter (talk

) 21:27, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

You blocked GCB after 1 revert, but you didn't even give Kowkaw a warning after 3.

LEPRICAVARK (talk

) 21:36, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Indeed, that's my reading of this case as well. An established editor is blocked for edit warring after a single revert, a suspicious new account is not blocked for reverting three times. No apology or admission of any mistake from the blocking admin after 2-3 days of asking for clarification. What gives? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:17, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

@Ymblanter I see no reason why such a simple yet crucial question cannot be answered NOW. You blocked them for REASONS which should have been grounded in POLICY, in this case, 3RR. Please tell us those REASONS, explicitly, while referencing the policies mentioned. It is hardly rocket science. Please list the 3RR violating diffs and the warnings you said you given them. We don't need to wait for any ArbCom clarification for such a simple list of diffs to be given. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:15, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

@Ymblanter Thank you for taking the time to provide the detailed analysis of the events from your side below. I'll leave it to more experienced and neutral parties to comment first; through per my comments above I think the best solution to end this dramu quickly would be for you to apologize for being too hasty in your blocks (particularly of GCB who did only a single revert). In general, warnings and page protections are better than quick blocks, also there is the 3RR procedure with reports and which gives people at least some window to reply/explain or self-revert. Blocks should be the last resort, not first. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:59, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

This is indeed the point I wanted to address but forgot. I assume that [5] this diff] together with [6] settle the situation. If I were GCB, I would not want anybody to show up on my page to continue discussing this. (As myself, I do not expect anybody who was active in this ANI thread, to show up on my talk page to apologize, and I absolutely do not want user A repeatedly asking user B to apologize to me). If GCB wants apologies, I think they want to make it in some way clear to me.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:33, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Ymblanter - I don't demand any apologies. You take care of yourself, okay? I really hope this episode ends soon, folks. (please!) - GizzyCatBella🍁 09:52, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Good, thanks. Hopefully some of us have learned somethink from the episode.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:58, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Timeline of blocks

• Ok, fine. I will do it now. The timeline was:
• approximately 2013 I add the page on my watchlist;
• 4 October 2019 Levivich adds the camp piece
• 2 August 2021 20:29 VM removes the text. Their first edit at this page since at least 2012, possibly ever
• 3 august 09:21 Revert by Gildir
• 09:35 Revert by GCB. Their first edit at this page since at least 2012, possibly ever
• I block GCB. The revert is a clear edit-warring. WP:Edit warring allows for blocks for less than three reverts. Reverts are clearly correlated - not necessarily in the sense they have discussed them off-wiki )probably not) but that situatively, they in any case have chosen to collectively revert established users. No socks are in the picture. Now, I know that GCB is just coming from the topic ban on this topic (which I have some recollection I was the administrator who rescinded it, but I did not check, and this is immaterial, this dees not make me involved anyway). They are an experienced user and must know that this revert is unacceptable. Their talk page is full of warnings. I choose the block for disruptive editing (not for 3RR, as claimed above, should have chosen edit-warring) and the duration of 72h, equal to the duration of the previous block.
• On a second thought, this was a poor decision. I mean, it was according to the policies, and if the thing goes to the full ArbCom case, I will be able to defend it, but I should solved the situation in a better way. If I had to do it again I would have left a strongly worder talk page message (similar to what I left as the block notice) but would not block. If it would not helped I would probably have blocked then.
• 10:07 GCB reacts in an appropriate way which I appreciate.
• 13:44 Kowkaw'd forst revert
• 15:10 VM's second revert
• 15:20 VM starts the talk page discussion (which I believe I have not seen before the block).
• VM shows up at the GCB's talk page, They are at this point mostly interested in who ordered me to block GCB and do not seem to believe that it was my own decision.
• 15:23 VM's third revert
• 15:24 At some point in the middle of the discussion, I warn them.
• 15:25 Kowkaw's second revert
• 15:28 VM's fouth revert
• 15:38 I block VM; the time is chosen again 72 h which is the same as GCB but also the same as the VM's last block.

We have a heated discussion again, starting again from BF assumptions (I blocked them because they contested the GCB block), which after some time converges into discussion of whether reverting a banned user is an exemption of 3RR, and I provide the argument that this page is not an article, and the argument is called wikilawyering, at which point I advise them to file an unblock request to have an opinion of an uninvolved administrator. The discussion is still there, this is the diff of my last edit on VM's page which also shows the previous discussion.

• The rest is here. My interpretation of the policy is currently on its way to be validated by ArbCom. There are no relevant diffs outside of the hoax page and the two talk pages, GCB and VM, I know of.--Ymblanter (talk) 06:52, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Now, concerning the VM block, I believe it was a valid block. There were four reverts (one of them of an established user); I gave a warning, though

Concerning the two new accounts taking part in the edit-warring, Kowkaw and אברהסה בו , indeed I checked they have low edit-count (I have a gadget installed showing edit-count) but I was not immediately convinced they are socks (may be they are, may be they are not, again, none of them is currently blocked). However, I had a strong suspicion they were NOTTHERE accounts. None of them made more than three reverts (otherwise I would have blocked), and I did not see any urgency in dealing with them. Ususlly we do not warn socks for edit-warring, we block them. When I had more time (probably evening of the same day, I would have looked at them, and likely block per NOTHERE. However, after the ANI thread started, there was no way for me to do it, and I am not going to look at these accounts. Again, there are plenty of other administrators around. If they want to deal with the situation - may be there is a goodr reason for this?--Ymblanter (talk) 07:25, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Now, I have by now given a full account of my motivation and actions in this episode, providing all the diffs, citing the policies, and explaining why my actions were compatible with the policies. This is what I am expected to do according to

Therefore I will restrict my further participation here to an absolute necessary minimum, ideally I will not reply anymore. I apologize for this, but, again, I have provided sufficient information. The case is already before ArcCom, whoever thinks that my actions in this episode were not compatible with me being an administrator should just go there and argue the case. This of course absolutely should not stop the community from discussing the situation, but I would appreciate of this discussion occurs without continuously questioning me. May I please also remind everybody that we have the Terms of Use, which say something (I am not going to look for the actual text now) the discussions in the project must occur in the athmosphere of mutual respect and assuming good faith. This is not exactly what is happening in this thread. Thank you for understanding.--Ymblanter (talk) 07:25, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Ymblanter, you said you wanted to drop this because you were worried about your health and high blood pressure. You even put something like "I want to live" in the unblock - which itself is highly problematic! Yet here you insist on pursuing the matter.

So:

• You skip the very first step. Which is that this was first added by User:Icewhiz on Sept 4. This was literally DAYS before Icewhiz was topic banned from this area. Subsequently, Icewhiz was banned from En-wiki altogether for harassing and doxing multiple users off-wiki. Soon after that he was globally-banned by the WMF because some of the harassment was so fucking vile. I don't know, this seems like quite pertinent info ... so why are you skipping like the most important part?
• Then this was removed by User:Piotrus on Sept 10 (Icewhiz still NOT topic banned by this point) but then *reinstated*, NOT added, by User:Levivich on October 4th as you note (by this point Icewhiz topic banned so he couldn't do it himself). There WAS discussion about it at the time [7]. Levivich DID NOT participate in it (although a couple Icewhiz socks did).
• Let's skip ahead to the part where GCB removed it again and you blocked them. You claim above: "I block GCB. The revert is a clear edit-warring.". THIS. WAS. ONE. REVERT. You blocked someone for 78 hours for one revert. You didn't block the other person who reverted before GCB either. You blocked GCB. For one revert. You claim above: "They are an experienced user and must know that this revert is unacceptable.". NO. There is nothing "unacceptable" about a single revert. You claim above: "Their talk page is full of warnings." NO. This is a falsehood. I don't see A SINGLE warning on GCB's talk page. More importantly YOU in particular DID NOT issue any warnings. Just blocked someone out of the blue for three whole days for making a single revert (you did not block the person who reverted before them).
• You skip another part. Which is that I complained about the egreious block of GCB on their talk page. When I challanged your block you claimed, again, completely falsely, that this was because "it is part of edit-warring after multiple warnings in a contentious area". NO. There were no "multiple warnings". There was not even a single warnings. It is also utterly false that there was any OTHER edit warring by GCB. I looked through their last 1000+ edits going back to May. GCB has NOT made any other reverts (except for reverting some IPs and users with less than 500edits/30days, per the 500/30 restriction, who, btw, are pretty obvious or even confirmed sock puppets.). It's just not true, this is just your post-hoc spurious and false rationalization of a bad block.

When I pointed this out you accused me of "playing games" and "pretending that (I) don't know what you're talking about". This was, again, a deflaction. Someone points out that you're wrong and instead of either a) admitting your error or b) showing that person is wrong, you restor to this rhetorical device of "you're playing games"

• You then claim, quote: "VM shows up at the GCB's talk page, They are at this point mostly interested in who ordered me to block GCB and do not seem to believe that it was my own decision." This is also completely false [8]. NOWHERE in the discussion on GCB's talk page did I ask you or was "interested in" "who ordered you to block GCB". It's simply not there! You are completely misportraying the nature of that conversation! I, as pointed out above, criticized you for blocking someone for a single revert (and only one party) and for falsely claiming that there was some "other", unspecificed, edit warring GCB was guilty of. That's it. There's nothing there about me "not believing it was your decision". Why are you even saying this? Anyone can read that discussion and see it's just not true.
• You blocked me soon after I pointed out that your claims regarding GCB were simply false. I'm sorry to say, and I didn't want to bring this up before, but that looks straight up like a revenge "respect mah authoritah" block. As in - you dare complain about my admin actions? IBLOCKYOUTOO! It very much looks like you got annoyed that your actions were questioned and reacted emotionally by pressing that block button. Your subsequent statements, and the strange unblock-summary, suggest the same thing.
• You claim you "warned me". You said, on GCB's talk page, not mine, at 15:24 "That you continued reverting is not good either". I didn't see it. At 15:28 I reverted the likely sock puppet/account with very few edits again. At 15:29 I saw your comment and explained to you that "I reverted an editor who is an obvious sock per 500/30 restriction as above." You blocked me at 15:38, AFTER you read my response so YOU KNEW that there was a good reason for my revert. You also skip mentioning the part where I repeatedly, in my edit summaries and on the talk page also mentioned the 500/30 restriction. You didn't address that AT ALL. You did not claim that the restriction didn't apply to the page at the time - you only came up with that later.

Likewise, in your above statement you claim that "ArbCom (...) seems to be fully supporting my interpretation". I have no idea where you're getting that. None of the Arbs comments actually address the nature of your block - probably because that's NOT what the request for clarification is about. You reluctantly - after consensus here at ANI - unblocked and that was that. ArbCom is deciding whether the scope of the restriction is limited to articles or is broader. NONE of the Arb comments actually address your particular actions.

I'm sorry Ymblanter. As I said, I was content to let this go after you unblocked me (and GCB) and fixed your unblock-summary (since the initial one - "I want to live" - was so strange, and seemed to have implied that you had been threatened or something). I have no idea why you wish to keep pursuing this matter. But since you did see it fit to provide your "version" of events, I have to reply simply because it is so extremely misleading.

Still happy to drop it if you stop trying to restart it though. Volunteer Marek 07:42, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

I am not trying to restart anything, but Piotrus above demanded that I provide the diffs and give my motivation. I had to do it according to

WP:ADMINACCT. You may be sure that was no fun for me.--Ymblanter (talk

) 07:48, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

His question (and other editors too) was why you didn't block the other editor, Kowkaw, the one with 12 edits who reverted three times (vs. GCB's one revert). Or why you didn't even warn them. None of what you posted above answers that question. Volunteer Marek 07:53, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

What Piotrus said, was, literally, You blocked them for REASONS which should have been grounded in POLICY, in this case, 3RR. Please tell us those REASONS, explicitly, while referencing the policies mentioned. It is hardly rocket science. Please list the 3RR violating diffs and the warnings you said you given them. This is what I have done. Concerning Kowkaw, I specifically addressed them in my response. I understand that many people would disagree, but this was my motivation when I took the decision. Without this disaster, I would have looked at them more carefully.--Ymblanter (talk) 08:29, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

@

WP:ADMINACCT. Kudos for going to this level of detail. François Robere (talk

) 10:16, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

@François Robere Err, Francois, considering you are topic banned from interacting with GCB are you sure it is a good idea for you to comment in a discussion about a block that involves him (and not you)? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:23, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

@

WP:ADMINACCT request is commendable (gosh knows I asked for ADMINACCT more than once and I never got anything even remotely close). If you suspect that's a violation then I'll strike it. François Robere (talk

) 12:14, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

As a further sidebar to the sidebar, I'm impressed that we resisted the temptation of naming the case ARBAIP, to finish the trifecta of ARBIPA and ARBPIA _signed, Rosguill ^talk 21:46, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

APL does not authorise a separate DS. Since I believe APL falls entirely within the

WP:APL is the 500/30. ProcrastinatingReader (talk

) 22:02, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Ah I see, thank you. I guess since it's a GS we don't need to notify people (although it seems like a surefire recipe for flummoxing any new editors that want to edit the topic). _signed, Rosguill ^talk 22:06, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

It's primarily an issue when only part of an article falls under the scope of extended-confirmed restrictions. You can always write a personal note if you come across an editor for whom such an alert seems useful. (The limitation doesn't authorize blocking without warning, so the note would serve to save the editor's time.) isaacl (talk) 00:34, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Levivich

I really thought we were done here, with the situation more or less resolved. Ymblanter unblocked, then changed the block rationale, then the clarification request was filed. All good. But then for some reason User:Levivich decided to show up and in a space of less than an hour managed to:

• Restart the edit war by reverting two editors on that page: [9] [10] with the second revert including false
  WP:ASPERSIONS
  of tag-teaming based on an arbcom case from... 12 years ago.
• Falsely accused me of "perpetuating a hoax" here and here (his rationale being that I made ONE (as in "1", uno, single", ein) minor edit something like ... 12 years ago to that article (it was a minor copy edit of a badly written sentence). This is one edit in space of 12 years. It is one edit out of thousand+ edits to the article. It is one edit out of tens of thousands of edits I made. I didn't perpetuate any freakin' hoax and this is a very serious accusation. Levivich has refused to strike it (he did strike a part of it) [11] (here is the edit in question. it's 100% obvious that it's just a basic copy edit of a bad sentence [12])
• Accused me and another editor of tag teaming because we edit the same topic area and because ... we have been both been harassed by the same user. That user's edits, btw, correlate with Levivich himself just as much if not more than mine and GCB's [13]
• Accused another editor of tag teaming and refused to apologize when asked [14]
• Started ANOTHER edit war on a related article [15] [16]

It's like he came here, saw the drama, and thought "oh this fire is going on, what it needs is a couple gallons of gasoline!". Can someone please tell him to step back (an apology for the false insinuations and attacks would also be appreciated) and leave this topic alone? I think it's pretty clear that his past support for User:Icewhiz is getting in the way of neutral and level headed editing. Volunteer Marek 06:50, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

For the record, I am the one who asked Levivich to apologize for

WP:BRV is a cherry on top; really, Levivich, edit warring restoring arguably very problematic edits by indef banned editors and "casting aspersions"; not your best wikiday. I suggest dropping that particular stick quickly before things escalate. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here}

07:06, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Describing Levivich's reverts as "edit warring restoring arguably very problematic edits by indef banned editors" is misleading. As the page history shows, Levivich was reverting to restore the long-standing status quo text, which had been uncontested since Levivich took ownership of the banned user's addition by restoring it in October 2019 with an extra source; the recent edit war started with Marek's removal of that text. Yes, a likely sock got involved in the edit war to restore it, but the removal was clearly contested (just as it was back in late '19 when Levivich objected to its original removal) and the first restoration in the recent revival was, as far as I can tell, by an uninvolved, regular editor of that page. The text is sourced, has been in the long-standing version, and recent attempts to remove it have been contested. If editors want to remove it, they should work to build a talk page consensus. Jr8825 • Talk 17:00, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Also, if it was "very problematic", why did the editors who objected to it back in 2019 not continue to pursue the issue in the talk page thread where it was raised at the time, or bring it up at any point between then and now? Returning to the issue several years later and going straight to content removal and not re-opening the discussion that editors were aware of (because they'd previously participated in it) until the sock turned up to fight them ain't cool. Jr8825 • Talk 17:13, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

No it’s not and the information isn't sourced. The "source" is a globally banned user's interview given to Hareetz and then reprinted by a few newspapers. The above-mentioned banned user is also the author of that listing that editors are trying to correct. Please fully familiarize yourself with the issue. - GizzyCatBella🍁 18:10, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

@Jr8825 What GCB said, but I suggest this discussion is best to be held at Wikipedia_talk:List_of_hoaxes_on_Wikipedia#warsaw - it is not an ANI's issue, IMHO. Well, aside from restoring edits by indef banned editor, which edits were part of his harassment campaign which led to his indef and global ban. This is of some relevance, I guess. But my main concern with with Wikipedia:Casting aspersions (the unfounded accusations of tag teaming), for which no apology has been forthcoming. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:25, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

As I told VM shortly before he filed this, I won't be around much today (UTC), but I also don't have much to add beyond what I've already said about this on my talk page, the hoax list talk page, and in my edit summaries. I think everything relevant is in my recent contribs but let me know if there's anything else anyone wants me to address. Levivich 13:51, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

• One thing I'll add is the way to resolve the content dispute about whether a particular entry should be listed is to come to consensus about an inclusion criteria for the list (with an RfC if necessary) and then see if the entries meet the criteria. The criteria I'm operating under is "described by RS as a hoax," which this entry meets (links and quotes on the talk page), but of course consensus might be for a different criteria. Levivich 19:34, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

The issue isn’t that we disagree on the merits here. The issue is that you 1) restarted an edit war right as the drama was winding down and more importantly 2) you made an egregious and false accusation that I “perpetuated a hoax” based on… nothing. The latter is a very serious accusation and a personal attack which you refused to apologize for or strike. Volunteer Marek 21:33, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

I said one of your edits in a small way helped to perpetuate the hoax, and I did strike it, which you know, because we discussed that on my talk page. I didn't strike the "minimize the controversy" part but I struck the "perpetuated a hoax" part (diffs and discussion on my talk). Levivich 21:55, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Um, ok, I guess that’s a slight … improvement. And sure, I’ll drop it, I just don’t ever want to see you accuse other editors of “casting aspersions” or such. Falsely accusing someone of “perpetuating a hoax” is a serious and blockable offense. Volunteer Marek 23:31, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

• To be honest, I think we might want to consider sending
  WP:PAGES, for that matter - some leeway is fine if a page has theoretical value and isn't a net negative to the project, but it feels like this page tipped into net negative long ago.) If such a list has actual encyclopedic value, and if appropriate sources exist, we could perhaps have such a list in article-space rather than Wikipedia space, but as far as Wikipedia space goes I'm skeptical that the page's stated purpose of helping us research hoaxes is actually useful today given Wikipedia's scale. --Aquillion (talk
  ) 08:24, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
  • The problem is the editors not the page. Levivich 14:24, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
    • Yeah, the problem editors who wish to preserve that joke of an entry at the hoax page as some kind of “shrine to Icewhiz” and who appear to think that a new ArbCom case can “rehabilitate” him. It won’t. The guy was banned globally for EXTREMELY good reasons, and there’s no way WMF is ever unbanning him. At some point it’s time to accept reality. Volunteer Marek 16:50, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
  • WP is, at least in theory, all about openness and critical thinking. Exposing, recording and learning from our mistakes is part of it. How some community members handle such record is secondary to its immense value to the reader. François Robere (talk) 15:03, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Someone please tell me I'm not the only one who notices that while VM takes me to ANI for essentially ABFing, he is ABFing much worse about me? I struck the hoax comments, but he won't strike anything. Is it just me? Levivich 18:26, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

• • Most of this thread is a BF exercise.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:31, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

    Worse than falsely accusing someone of “perpetuating” or “minimizing” a hoax? Volunteer Marek 18:35, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

    For example, the way you keep misquoting me, half a dozen times now. Levivich 18:51, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

    You're being "hysterical" and "divisive", it was six strikes, tops. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:15, 5 August 2021 (UTC)