Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive868

With the a clear Pro-Christian agenda[18] and Anti-Hindu agenda,[19]-[20] this user has been engaged in insulting other editors throughout these years and engaged in making many other types of disruptive changes to different articles. It includes '

Like all articles and images of this user have been deleted, whether the subject of the article was non-notable or the article was violating copyrights. One of the article(Wesley Degree College) still remains, that I had nominated for deletion.[22] It had been ripped off from wesleydegreecollege.com/aboutus.htm. Even the current version is violating copyrights. While the 3 votes are in favor of deletion, I would recommend a quick deletion because it is still violating copyrights. Bladesmulti (talk) 16:12, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

I've also given him a warning. By the way, Blades, do we happen to be the same person? I just bring it up, before somebody else does. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 16:17, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Insert ref for Johnmylove (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Johnmylove, please can you present some kind of indication that you are not here just to push various religiously oriented POVs. On a personal level I would advise you to turn to your own religious teaching about treatment of others such as the good Samaritan and the like and on topics on not judging etc. should they apply.

Have you actually seen the user' talk history? I already had, right after I had started this section.

After so many warnings about the violation of copyrights, infringement is still largely visible, like whole article has been copied from the link that I have suggested above. Bladesmulti (talk) 00:01, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

• Was recently warned by Bishonen to refrain from making such comments on contributors.[23] Some of the recent examples of the same disruptive attitude..

Claims about me that:

He added Vulgar criticism against Christian and Jesus pages...

notorious for adding anti christian statements on Christian pages...

I have just removed them, as those were added recently by him....[24]

Recent changes:

Seem to me like heathen, Indian pagan, Indian stone worshipper, elephant worshipper, mischief.[25]

Who cares what a Hindoo thinks![26]

Bladesmulti (talk) 15:55, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Nice guy. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 16:44, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

I just took alook at his contributions-list: [ https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Christianity_in_India&diff=prev&oldid=579966048 diff] "Sitush is a Hindu Fundamentalist, a garbage community of sort and Jobless man who edits Wikipedia pages 24 hours without any work, and there is constant attack on Pages related to Christians of India by him. Mind your own business!"

Not a nice guy at all. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 16:50, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

• After a while, long term low grade chronic bigotry becomes worse than high intensity acute bigotry. Blocked indef. If he wants to try to convince someone he's going to stop criticizing other editors based on their perceived religion and ethnicity, he can do it inside an unblock template. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:51, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Floq. Bladesmulti (talk) 17:01, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

User:HasteurBot is removing useful categories from all AfC articles which was not approved in its bot request. I found this category quite useful and find it harmful that it is being removed where it is needed. Thanks! EoRdE6^{(Come Talk to Me!)} 06:19, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

A new editor contacted me on my talk page stating that they had been the target of a legal threat by the subject of an article - I'm not sure for what, as they didn't go into the specifics, but the editor had added a critical statement and an incomplete AfD nomination, and then removed the addition after being contacted by the subject, apparently. I've got no opinion on the addition other than that it seems that it wasn't sourced correctly, or whether the article should be sent to AfD, but is there anything that we can and/or should do about this? The editor has indicated that they do not feel comfortable editing further. ansh666 21:17, 4 January 2015 (UTC) (Sorry for not including any links or notifications or anything, but I really don't know what to do here with respects to privacy, etc. Also, I'm not watching, ping me if anything important comes up.)

This is similar to what happened at Yank Barry, where the subject was personally attempting to sue Wikipedia editors. One person used their real name while editing and they were personally named in said lawsuit. However, said lawsuit was dismissed. For specifics, Tracey_Jackson was nominated for deletion by User:KatieVagnino and was subsequently threatened for lawsuit by the subject and ultimately decided not to continue the afd even though it was misnominated. Additionally, it seems that the subject also threatened the editor over material -inside- the article-. This is very troubling. Tutelary (talk) 21:58, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm actually not sure if the legal threat was related to the AfD or not, actually, as I removed the tag first per protocol (it was redlinked). Thanks for notifying, by the way. ansh666 00:32, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

So apparently proper procedure is to be ignored. Cool.... ansh666 19:49, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

In the interest of factual correctness: the Yank Barry suit was not dismissed (an action of the court) but withdrawn (an action of the person filing the suit.) And more than one editor who edited under recognizable names was sued. --Nat Gertler (talk) 20:34, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi, this is the editor in question, User:KatieVagnino. It's the AfD nomination they want to sue me for. But as other editors who have now been editing the page have noted, the page has some issues, so I don't think it was out of line for me to nominate it (and the irony is that I didn't nominate it correctly). Just to be safe, I sent an e-mail to legal at wikimedia outlining the situation and asking for advice. I have not been formally sued as of yet, but still want to have my ducks in a row if it comes to that. KatieVagnino (talk) 01:31, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Okay, if you emailed legal, I guess that's the best we can do for now...sorry that nobody else seems interested in helping. ansh666 23:30, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

• I'll work on cleaning the page. Hopefully Ms Jackson won't threaten me with a lawsuit.
  (｡◕‿◕｡)
• I've cleaned the promotional prose out of the article. I'm going to post a light warning on the talk page for the original editor since this does give off the impression that it was done by a paid editor. If he is then that's fine as long as he openly states this on his user page. I see that he says freelance writer, but if he's a paid editor then he needs to write that as well - freelance writer is a bit too vague. In any case, I have found enough to where Jackson would pass notability guidelines so it's in no danger of deletion. It's just that the knee jerk reaction by whomever talked to
  (｡◕‿◕｡)
  09:57, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

DocumentError (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I've been biting my tongue but there is only so much that a person can take. I've avoided this unpleasant user for months and wish they would leave me alone. I've previously been very clear I wish to have no interaction with them and asked that they stay away. Without going into older misconduct, here is the activity over the last day or so.

Wild unsubstantiated accusations - often edited and reedited over each other

1. [46]
2. [47] [48] asking for 1 year topic ban
3. [49]
4. [50]
5. [51]
6. [52]
7. [53]
8. [54]
9. [55]
10. [56]
11. [57]
12. [58]
13. [59]
14. [60]
15. [61]
16. [62]
17. [63]
18. [64]

Stalking and Canvassing editors I'm currently interacting with

1. [65]
2. [66]
3. [67]
4. [68]
5. [69]
6. [70]
7. [71]

Reordering my comments out of sequence and reverting an attempt to hat his off topic attacks

1. [72]
2. [73]

I'm not looking to engage in a debate and may choose not to respond to anything he says in this thread after I start it. I just want to put this activity out there rather then let him continue to spread unsubstantiated allegations about me. Happy New Year. Legacypac (talk) 03:22, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

It doesn't seem that bad to me. I guess you could ask for an interaction ban if you wanted. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 08:43, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to read through all those NinjaRobotPirate. The monthly ANI he files against me usually averages 20-40 raw diffs, most of which tend to just be random comments culled from my edit history (like in junior high when you double-space your book report to plus-up the page count). DOCUMENT★ERROR 09:12, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

(inserted) Question: Can you provide diffs to the monthly ANi for evaluation (just the 3 last months will do, but feel free to provide more months). Legacypac (talk) 03:00, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Oh boy, here we go. So ... I have had zero interaction with LegacyPAC (LP) for months until today when, as an uninvolved editor, I commented on one of the numerous ANIs he has filed against other editors to make the

WP:BOOMERANG observation that LP had savaged this editor with comments like "Are you a child?" and "your writing contains child like mistakes and your maturity level seems childlike" before he dragged the unfortunate newbie to ANI. [74]

After I made that observation, LP went to Requests for Permissions (!?) to declare that me observing that he had made a personal attack itself constituted a personal attack. Of course he didn't ping me when he started accusing me there, as he should have (my interjection into that sans-ping thread about me is one of the things he has characterized above as "stalking" [sic] him). MusikAnimal declined to give LP rollback permissions and archived his attacks against me at RfP, apparently prompting him to come here and file the fourth of the many ANIs he's hit me with (none of which have gone anywhere).

If anyone has specific questions about any specific diff above, don't hesitate to ping me, but I'm frankly exhausted at having to periodically spend hours pounding out defenses to these as he's clearly using the ANI as some kind-of cudgel to warn editors not to "cross" him. Corriebertus, Lukeno94, Mbcap, and countless other editors have been on the receiving (or observing) end of LegacyPAC's aggressive style of interaction and I hope will endorse my reasoning in not continuing to devote time to replying to these walls of text. LP has recently come off a one-year topic ban imposed by Drmies for similarly whirling dervish behavior [75] and dealing with his drama just isn't on my to-do list for today. DOCUMENT★ERROR 08:55, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

• Minor correction: I just closed that thread; the BLP ban was imposed by Salvio giuliano. Carry on, Drmies (talk) 15:35, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

• bigger correction - the BLPBAN was imposed in May 2013 and served out with zero incident during or since related to BLPs. Legacypac (talk) 17:07, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

I think it may be worth having a look into

We do not discriminate on age Lor^Chat

09:38, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Can someone explicitly remind me where I had a negative interaction with Legacypac? I've definitely observed some pretty inappropriate behaviour, and I evidently voted in favour of the topic ban, but I don't remember a direct interaction with Legacypac that was overtly negative. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 11:09, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

I apologize, I actually meant Martin451 (I get the two of you confused as you have similar rainbow sigs). Technically you have "been on the ... observing end of LegacyPAC's aggressive style of interaction," as you noted here [76] that I've seen Legacypac get away with these sorts of things far too often. They should consider themselves lucky it's not a lengthy block, to be honest. but, TBH, I didn't mean to invoke you at all and was thinking of a different editor entirely. My apologies again, feel free to strike your name from my comment, as well as this entire note, if you like. DOCUMENT★ERROR 11:59, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

There has been a ridiculous amount of arguing, minor personal attacks and accusations of sockpuppetry by so many people against so many others that I have completely lost track on

talk

) 10:05, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Just for the record, I stopped editing ISIL articles three months ago after LegacyPac denounced me as an "Iranian anti-American" terrorist [sic] [77] after which my userpage started being vandalized by IP editors threatening to "nuke" me (here and etc. [78]). (Amusingly, my rather muted objection to LP calling me an "anti-American" is among the diffs he's listed above in his ANI against me ...). So this issue stems from my decision to make a BOOMERANG point about 5 ANIs up as an uninvolved editor and not anything related to the slow car wreck at the ISIL articles. I've been full-time on Wikipedia:WikiProject Fraternities and Sororities since self-extricating from the ISIL mess. DOCUMENT★ERROR 10:24, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

(inserted) Question: I never called you a terrorist at the linked page - or anywhere that I recall - so can you provide a correct link to my alleged calling you a terrorist? Legacypac (talk) 03:00, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

DOCUMENT★ERROR As you know I recently got in contact with you privately which was really in response to your reference to the "poisonous atmosphere" at ISIL and to another comment that you made in regard to toxicity. Honestly, if you make uncited and unreferenced remarks such as this I don't think that you should find it surprising that issues are brought to administration. In one comment you say "A lot of us are at our wit's end". Who? How? Please, if you want to make accusation about an editor, collect your references and present. I see inference from you regarding the supposed conduct of Legacypac on other users pages. What efforts have you made to address issues directly? I have looked through User talk:Legacypac and through history of deleted content and see no record of any confrontation of an accusation of being called "anti-American" or anything else. If you make an accusation you have to support. There are enough battles going on in the world without unnecessary conflict here. Please edit directly, deal with problems directly and don't canvass. While we don't agree on all issues, the things that I have generally seen Legacypac write have been justified. Where are your justifications? The last presentation of your talk page with a large content of input by admin

#1 All the diffs you've requested have always been included above, including the one to LP calling me an anti-American [79]. Diffs are indicated by numbers in brackets, or purple text to show a wikilink. Let me know if you are still having trouble finding anything and I'll be happy to post them to your Talk page to avoid any unnecessary scrutiny you might face as this brings the subject back into the ISIL topic area under which (I think?) you're currently on a no-warning topic ban (forgive me if I'm wrong, there seems to be a rather complex series of blocks and bans going on here).

#2 I'd strongly advise you visit LP's diffs he's labeled as "canvassing" before staking your flag in them as they are just random links to an edit discussion in which I was participating about the name of a Serbian town [80] (the article's primary author is on my watchlist as I've recently pre-nom'ed them for Admin). Like many of LP's "diffs" they are just random pulls from my edit history that don't relate to the salacious headers he's assigned ("Stalking," "Canvassing," etc.) I guess he thinks if he throws out enough random diffs an Admin will just assume guilt by volume of paper without clicking on them. (see also NinjaRobotPirate's comment above) If you now feel it's appropriate to remove your comment, I have no problem if you also delete mine. No hard feelings. Best - DOCUMENT★ERROR 14:50, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

DOCUMENT★ERROR:

#1 (note: this is not the first issue as I have presented but within the sequence of your response) I have asked, please, if you have accusations please give a direct presentation of diffs. Please don't just point to threads as if to say that there is something over there. It doesn't carry favour.

#2 In the listing of diffs entitled stalking and canvassing I consider the third and seventh diff to be very clear cases of canvassing. Some of the other cases I also think may well fit a description of stalking. You have mentioned supposedly salacious headers:"Stalking," "Canvassing," etc. You have used the uncited slurs "poisonous" and "toxic". Please take some perspective and some responsibility. For the good of the editing environment such uncited representations of other editors and other editing activities have to stop. Please either substantiate what you say or say nothing.

#3 repeating: You stated, "A lot of us are at our wit's end". Who? How?

#4 repeating: What efforts have you made to address issues directly? ...

issue, the thing that I am now most incensed about is that, after you raised contention of Legacypac rearranging comments rearranging of comments here, you then edited my AN/I edit here so as to cause the last paragraph of my text to slip into the tail of the paragraph above. This was the text that presented the strongest content that I presented: "The last presentation of your talk page with a large content of input by admin PBS is found here." I find it appalling that you accuse an editor of an activity and then do the same in an important Wikipedia location.

Kaye

18:57, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, I consider another editor using terms like "cyber-terrorist," "your edits are childlike" and "anti-American" [81] [82] [83] to describe other editors to be "poisonous and toxic." I stand by that. DOCUMENT★ERROR 21:51, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

The first ref shows a lot of conflict both ways. Legacypac makes the uncited accusation "DocumentErrors edits from a clear pro-Iran, anti-American POV". I would personally like to see those accusations either justified or struck. There was no use of I think and this was stating opinion as fact.

The second ref shows Legacypac to either have communicated in blatant insensitive error asking an editor, who had come to his/her page to challenge a edit, with the question "are you a child?" or had been directly rude.

The third ref includes the text "Cyber-terrorists" which acted as a link to a thread now located at: IP NOTHERE except to promote ISIL in which "Pakistan based IP User:175.110.139.126" was banned for 6 months by Bishonen.

This is on one side. On the other side

Kaye

23:11, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

And earlier in that discussion: "I think at this point Legacypac and @DocumentError: could benefit from a self imposed two way IBAN. ...-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 19:53, 24 November 2014 (UTC)" which I replied I was operating under such a self imposed IBAN, which I've continued to do until yesterday when I responded to DocumentError's breaking into a thread where I was seeking some friendly assistance for a new editor. He then proceeded comment on me on various talk pages as detailed above. I want the wild accusations and misrepresentations about me to stop - I've refuted them over and over but they just keep coming from his keypad. I have no idea what value this editor sees in stirring up trouble. I've lived to the self imposed IBAN. He has not. Legacypac (talk) 17:43, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Legacypac you initial edit was "No one threatened DocumentError, but he was editing from a clear pro-Iran, anti-American POV and did engage in forum shopping, but his efforts to push the Iran intervention in Iraq over the American-led one were largely unsuccessful. ..." See diff the wording was different from that you posted here. Did you change it subsequently and before another replied? -- PBS (talk) 18:18, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I expanded my comment here before anyone replied. Legacypac (talk) 18:25, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

More error above - Gregkeye is not the subject of an ISIL topic ban. Legacypac (talk) 19:10, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Question for DocumentError [86] here you say that unnamed (but possibly you mean me) editor(s) called you "an anti-Semite, anti-American, radical anti-American, pro-terrorist, cyber-terrorist, raving anti-American terrorist nutjob, raghead, liberal, etc. " and you added specific terms through a series of edits, like you found more of them. This is a very serious charge against whichever editor you are referring to. Can you specify which editor you think made these comments about you and can you provide diffs where these very specific statements are directed at you? Legacypac (talk) 19:23, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Propose a Community IBAN

Since a voluntary interaction ban between

• Support as proponent who is tired of this feuding. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:41, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

I appreciate the sentiment - I'm here only because the unfounded accusations are way out of hand. If some editor actually called DocumentError a "raving anti-American terrorist nutjob" they should be dealt with. If in fact no editor said that, he should be sanctioned. My post here is not an attempt to bicker but done under

WP:CONDUCTDISPUTE Legacypac (talk

) 20:54, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

• Comment I appreciate the sentiment, I'd just note that prior to yesterday I had no interaction with Legacypac for 3 months; I have avoided him religiously for the sake of my own sanity. I happened to be in ANI yesterday and saw him using yet another new editor as his personal chew toy and made the mistake of sticking up for the guy after LP was ripping into him with "Are you a child?" and "your writing contains child like mistakes and your maturity level seems childlike." [87]. The savaging that's ensued was what I got out of it. As I told PBS I don't plan to make that mistake again. When LP begins his daily ANIs again tomorrow against a new editor I'll just bite my lip and keep walking. DOCUMENT★ERROR 21:35, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Question: Why did DocumentError just insert his comment in the middle of my comment in a way that makes my comment quite unclear now ? Legacypac (talk) 21:42, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

I believe the fact that the comment was indented but the second was not. This may have led him to believe that they were not intended to be connected and that the correct way to respond to the first would be to indent more.

talk

) 21:52, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Unless you sign your name in the middle of your comment and again at the end, I didn't insert it into the "middle" of your comment. Perhaps PBS can take a look at it. DOCUMENT★ERROR 21:54, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Edited for clarity. The copied text now has a yellow background and the inserted text is in a collapse box. -- PBS (talk) 02:35, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose for now, I don't see how this situation can work in the current situation. Personally I need to work trough the diffs to see what Legacypac is supposed to have done wrong. I do not think that it is right to put a sanction on an editor's record without there being evidence to support it. How would it work in the ISIL editing environment if two present editors can't communicate?
  Kaye
  21:55, 6 January 2015 (UTC)
• Comment I don't know if an interaction ban would be beneficial or not, but I do not think this would stop there from being another ANI revolving around
  talk
  ) 22:16, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

I agree with you but, just to clarify, however, I do not edit in that or any ISIL-related topic, nor have I for at least a few months as a personal choice (not as a result of a topic ban as I have a flawless disciplinary record unlike two other editors in this ANI). DOCUMENT★ERROR 22:21, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

I shall also clarify, then. I did not mean to imply that any particularly user may be to blame, including yourself and Legacypac. The perceived loss of good faith causes a loss of good faith, which needs to be addressed especially in light of an

talk

) 22:47, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Understood. As to your second question I was avoiding outing anyone, but I do need to apologize as I thought Gregkaye had received a block from Callanecc the other day (User_talk:GregKaye/Archive_3#Blocked_for_violating_interaction_ban) but it appears his block log is clear, so that must have been a misread by me. DOCUMENT★ERROR 00:20, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

• This is "WP:BULLDOZERING" all over again. RGloucester — ☎ 23:26, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Gaming ANI / Counter-Proposal

Background: Legacypac, in his most recent ANI against me, lists 21 diffs without explanation, giving each a broad header like "canvassing" etc. I didn't go through these one by one due to sheer volume;

Counter-Proposal: As a counter-proposal to the IBAN, I suggest Legacypac receive a topic ban on ANI reports about me. As I've mentioned elsewhere, this is the latest in a string of ANIs he's hit me with [among countless other editors who have crossed him], all of which have been dismissed and I would welcome the respite from having to devote my time to these. (I believe

Kaye

23:46, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Greg - I need to again ask you to group your comments together (ideally using a single indent below the main topic proposal) instead of splashing them all over the page out of date order and pushing them above those of editors who have previously weighed-in. I appreciate you feel a sense of urgency in what you have to say and are frustrated at my lack of reply, but the reason I'm not responding is because this shotgun syntax is extremely difficult for me to follow. This thread shouldn't look like a Jackson Pollock painting. Please just take a minute to follow the sequence. DOCUMENT★ERROR 00:07, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Kaye

05:21, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm trying to avoid getting too involved in this. I dutifully read through the linked diffs, saw they weren't egregious, and said so. I'm not too sure what I can contribute beyond that. Maybe a bit of advice? Stop accusing each other of wrong-doing and go back to ignoring each other. If you're both incapable of that, then agree to a voluntary interaction ban. This endless bickering will not end well. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 23:02, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

• I think Legacypac should be banned from Wikipedia. Very disruptive editor that forces his pov into articles without consensus.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 22:59, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

I think that both editors at this point should be given a 48 hour - one week ban to think about things. I have seen DocumentError make valued contributions when I have seen them and know that Legacypac has made strong contribution to ISIL. They both have broken guidelines. An IBAN will achieve nothing as far as real change is concerned. Both have got to see that rules need to be followed. DocumentError has broken numerous guidelines as especially noted on his/her deleted content from talk page. Legacypac, from edits that I saw, was acting with an occasionally exhibited abrasive side that s/he would be advised, I think, to curb. I would like to see DocumentError respond to the issues that I have raised above and for Legacypac to justify his/her statement "DocumentErrors edits from a clear pro-Iran, anti-American POV"

Kaye

23:17, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

I do not think that the bans need necessarily be in proportion as, by referencing DocumentError's talk page, I think that here is the greater wrong. However, I also think that there are valid issues raised that Legacypac too would do well to think through and, arguably, some time out may help.

Kaye

23:33, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

[Comment out of chronological sequence]

• I reject the claim that DocumentError is "Stalking and Canvassing" me. Having a quick glance over this, it is clear that this is a complex issue with a long history. As I do not have the time to fully consider the points here, I will not be able to contribute fully. However, I have to say that it is not for Legacypac to determine whether I am being stalked or canvassed.

Regarding Documenterrors comment on my talk page, I need to say the following to put my concluding sentence in context. The last few days have been the most difficult for me. I have literally had a miserable week (maybe more) at Wikipedia. As a new editor who's account is 30 days old, I have had to face 4 accusations of sock puppetry and 1 of being a duck. These accusations I feel are linked to my unwelcome work on the ISIL page. Add to this, the constant undermining which, I felt I was being subjected to on that page, I was seriously considering quitting Wikipedia. The great relief I felt on seeing Documenterrors heading above his comment ("have faith", he said) on my talk page, provided some calm to my state of mind which I felt I was loosing at the point. It was a relief to know I was not the only one to think the atmosphere there was poisonous as per my definition on the reply to his message. At a point where I was loosing faith, the comment by Documenterror was a very generous act. It is for this reason that I do ask the other editors to give due consideration for this one kind act.

Correction added after: Even though Decumenterror did not canvass in my case, Legacypac can raise his concern if canvassing is taking place. I withdraw my assertion above that it is not for him to determine if I am being canvassed.

03:07, 7 January 2015 Mbcap (talk) 03:36, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, and it's always my pleasure to try and assist new editors. DOCUMENT★ERROR 03:55, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Just by chance, I remember Documenterror defending me a while back when I was a new editor getting accused of sockpuppetry. I was waiting to see if Legacypac would answer Documenterror's reasonable question about his accusations that started this thread; no surprise, he still refuses. Here is Legacypac's latest report against me, from a couple of days ago: notice how, when I am forced to respond to his false accusations, he immediately shifts the goalposts ("missed a word"), refuses to explain anything, and finally claims that "Everything else is explained above", and accuses me of "harrassment". So, no surprise.

• Mbcap FYI the association between you as a sockpuppet account that appeared on my page here has been linked by NeilN with an "IP who's been harassing Bish"/ Bishonen here. I don't know why you associate the sockpuppet activity to your work at Talk:ISIL and not to your contributions to Talk:Israel that you recently asked me to join.

Without prior contact, DocumentError arrived at your page to say, "From one "cyber-terrorist" [sic] to another, until you've been denounced as "anti-American," you've only just sampled the ISIL topics. I self-extricated from the ISIL mess as a result of the poisonous atmosphere. Good luck."

No mentioned of accusation has here been made to current editors as being cyber-terrorists. Legacypac had said "don't disparage the efforts of the many editors who have struggled to write a high profile article while cyber-terrorists come to wikipedia to push a POV." with reference being made to a Pakistani IP.

Kaye

04:56, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Gregkaye

I consider it linked to the ISIL page because 2 of the 3 accusers who gave examples with their accusation, it was regarding an edit or discussion on the ISIL page. Eeven though I had decided to limit my input here, I am compelled to respond at great expense to myself to what I think is a concerted effort to pick on an editor as part of a bigger issue of controlling the ISIL page. I feel this way because of Gregkayes post above mine and Legacypacs post about commenting on said editor, that he is anti-american/pro-iranian. These strong statement will be explained later in my post.

Firstly, I will continue to defend DocumentError's contact with me. I believe that when you are able to do an act of kindness, it becomes your moral obligation to do so. I believe therefore, that not only was it appropriate for him to contact me but that it was necessary. I feel we need to do more for new editors to encourage them to stay and not to scare them off. Moving on, I can not judge Documenterro's intentions but the nature of his response suggested he was providing his support to a new user who he felt was given a hard time. This behaviour of aiding new editors seems to be a running theme as reflected via the comment by the other new editors expression of support.

Also I think I know why DocumentError said from one cyber-terrorist to another. It has been suggested that there are a lot of POV pushers around the ISIL related pages and a lot of effort has been taken to block "cyber terrorists". I am not sure if it was implied that the above 2 are mutually inclusive but that is the impression I got. I do not think someone should be labelled a cyber-terrorist with such great ease. That is a serious accusation to make and one I feel is on par with accusing someone of rape or child sexual molestation. The word is all together loaded and should not be used against a fellow banned editor unless someone is judged by a court of law to be guilty of cyber-terrorism and that information is fed back to Wikipedia. I think at Wikipedia we are here for one purpose only and that is to compile the sum of human knowledge and not to decide over the internet whether someone is a cyber terrorist or not. I too found this comment offensive and I also felt it was aimed at me.

I am surprised to see Legacypac comment on his allegation of said editor as anti-american or pro-iranian. I think that it is time for me to call a spade, a spade. I feel that, with all honesty legacypac is guilty of the same thing he accuses Documenterror of, because I think that his work on the ISIL page is barn door pro-american. I think his attempts to stop anyone with an opposing opinion to his, from contacting me demonstrates this case even further and illustrates his attempts to censor information. To declare such heavy statements (which are my opinion btw), I must give my reasoning for feeling this way. I hope I do not get banned for this post or get in trouble as I am doing this in good faith and with a view to improving the encyclopaedia. The ISIL article's lead constitutes what I feel to be propaganda. The content of the lead is very good. However it's arrangement and the narrative that it conveys, seem to reflect heavily and is in line with America's narrative of the issue. I will further explain:

• The US's insistence on not using their name (I mean Islamic State/IS), the media's insistence on not using the name, the arab nations insistence on not using the name, the Muslim scholars insistence of not using the name, has resulted in a total misunderstanding and misapplication, of due and undue weight and NPOV policy playing a role in how prominently the name should appear in the lead. The correct way to apply this policy in my view here is, to decide how prominently the criticism of the name feature in the article and in the lead. The difference between the two interpretation is important and because it has been mixed together so badly, it has taken me a good deal of time to distinguish them.

• The narritive in the lead without question is pro-american. The official name is mentioned in the 4th line. Compare this to the use of the word Da'ish (Daesh) which is mentioned immediately after the first sentence. This name America is trying to incorporate in their narrative in tackling this conflict and they wish it to be the new name/standard term for the group as part of their multi-pronged approach to the conflict. They use the name as it is a considered a pejorative. This is alluded to partly by John Kerry at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, a transcript of which you may read here [[89]]. I know this is PO but the use of the name is better described in secondary sources anyway

Since this is an encyclopaedia, information should be compiled in line with wiki policy and not to help any particular nation or group of nations agenda. My attempts to address this narrative was met with resistance, one that was most severe. My impression was that it was seen as more important not to give any legitimacy to ISIL than to follow wiki policy on neutrality. The state of affairs with that page makes me very sad and my attempts to tackle the issue, were met with what I think are allegations such as "I think you may be here to defend ISIL".

Whilst I think the involved editors both past and present have acted in good faith, I think they have got carried away with their attempts to combine wiki policy and guidelines with an attempt to de-legitimize ISIL which is not the purpose of an encyclopaedia. It is for the reasons I have highlighted, that I feel Legacypac edits from a pro-american standpoint which when met with concerns, even if discussed at length on the discussion page, is met with stiff and perpetual resistance. In this effort of his, I feel that he is aided by Gregkaye; both of whome I feel form a duopoly that exert undeserved pseudo-control over the page. I would compare the relationship to the multiple-editor ownership described in

WP:own

, where Legacypac in my view is the dominant editor who is then consistently defended and supported by Gregkeye. For example my attempt to undo his pov lead-tag removal (which was not allowed to be removed as per pov-lead policy) on the ISIL article was, immediatley answered by a reaction which I felt was the start of an edit war. As expected Gregkaye, in my opinion was there to provide and bolster legacypac's position as the dominant controller of the page. Seeing the situation had turned "poisonous", I then started contemplating on whether I should quite Wikipedia all together.

All that I have stated here is my opinion but I believe it is an opinion that is based on reflection of policy which I have spent about 40 to 50 hours studying this week. I have also reflected at length on my concerns about the ISIL page to see if they are merited when looking at policy. I would like to state to the other editors that this post in not a reactionary one. From the moment I started writing it to the moment I have reached here, it has took me a total of 5 hours to state my concerns in a way that I felt was appropriate and proportionate. No single event that took place was in itself something that made me think something sinister was going on. However when combining all the various things that have happened together, the picture that was painted was a troubling one.

I do think though that his intentions have been good. The work he has put into that page deserve credit and he has done it with good faith. But with all the stuff in the news and the atrocities etc, it can be easy to let a particular narrative slip in (whether consciously or subconsciously), as it may look to be of benefit and worth. However the goals of the encyclopaedia can only be met by following policy and giving every editor an equal say in a conversation. As a new editor, I feel I have jumped at the deepest end of the pool. I ask all other editors here to give consideration to my points. I will off course respect any decisions in terms of penalty to myself as a result of this comment here. Mbcap (talk) 10:54, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

zzz, in the ANI you linked, Legacypac alleged you were illiterate in the English language ("this editor can't read english" [sic]) Here. Having observed some of your great copyediting work on the Magdalene asylum and Boko Haram articles I just wanted to say I think your English is excellent and flawless in case you felt at all deterred by that comment. Keep up the great copyediting work. DOCUMENT★ERROR

11:02, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

can't read English is not a reference to inability in the language but to inability or refusal to understand. Legacypac (talk) 16:27, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks,

zzz (talk

) 18:30, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

I am extremely sorry about what I have written about you both. You have both taught me a lot about wikipedia in such a short time and I am grateful. However I found that it was incredibly difficult, no actually it was impossible to contribute on that page even with discussion. As I mentioned to you both on the ISIL talk page, nearer the end of my conversation there, I dreaded to even think about editing the article. I do not think I should be made to feel that way by anyone, ever. Contrast this to the Israel page which is under active arbitration remedies, where I found editors were a lot more considerate to other editors opinions even in the midst of a difficult conversation about inserting into the lead that israel is the longest military occupier in modern history. I have been in at least 2 other disputes in addition to this which have resolved amicably with me and the other editors working the situation out amongst ourselves. So it was a surprise to find that it was impossible to do anything on the ISIL page. 11:12, 7 January 2015 (UTC) Mbcap (talk) 11:18, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

This is not a content dispute, this is a discussion of DocumentError's conduct. The issues Mbcap brings up have been addressed elsewhere. Legacypac (talk) 16:27, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

More Questions

Question 3 can DocumentError explain how summoning editors that have crossed with me to this ANI is not a breach of Canvessing?
Question 4: this ANi deals with false disruptive allegations. Instead of substantiating the allegations, DocumentError has made more allegations and sought sanctions against me. Will he substantiate his allegations or not? If no one cares if he says inappropriate crap I'll drop the ANi and walk away. I'll just use the RPA tag instead and/or ignore him again. Easy. Not worth my time or effort to deal with a person so full of drama and error. Legacypac (talk) 23:27, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

Great - thank you! I'm pinging Bishonen, because it appears she was online recently, to ask her to review this thread with the suggestion it be closed/archived since we've both indicated we'll go back to ignoring each other. DOCUMENT★ERROR 23:45, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I was indeed recently online, but I haven't followed this, and I don't have time to deal with it now. Even just reading the thread and all the diffs in it would take longer than I can spare; I'm about to go to bed. You suggest it's easy to close and archive it because you both agree to ignore each other, but it doesn't look quite that simple to me, so I'm not willing to close without having a proper read first. Legacypak's last comment can be taken in a different way (as simply indicating that he's very frustrated). Bishonen | talk 00:00, 7 January 2015 (UTC).

No problem! DOCUMENT★ERROR 00:11, 7 January 2015 (UlTC)

LP, you said I didn't "substantiate" the "false allegations" I made. The majority of your diffs are just random caps from my edit history you've dropped in here to plump-up your ANI, which is why I've characterized this as a blatant case of

WP:GAMING. But there are 2 or 3 cases of actual accusations I've made. Your first diff, for instance, [90]. In it I said you had told another editor Update_stormtrooper"Are you a child? your writing contains child like mistakes and your maturity level seems childlike." Here is the "substantiation" that you said "Are you a child? your writing contains child like mistakes and your maturity level seems childlike." [91] Now it's my turn to question: were you really not aware you said that? Or was the point of this ANI just to throw some stuff against the wall to see if you could get it to stick? DOCUMENT★ERROR

01:03, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

@Gregkeye - my comment that he edits from a pro-Iran anti-American POV was made several months back and justified by the various actions he was taking at the time to push Iran into articles about the America-led group actions against ISIL. (later insert for clarity-see the rest of that post where I clearly said why). This is not something I am bringing here, he is entitled to hold whatever views he wants. I only brought it up to show how he was misquoting me right here. He self identifies as being from Iran on his talk page and I don't view Iranians or Americans or any other nationality badly. I live in the most multicultural part of Canada where I have a United Nations of friends. My own home is cross cultural, multi and mixed ethnicity and multi-citizenship. There are many Muslims and Christians in my extended family. Hence I take GREAT exception to anyone throwing around allegations that suggest I have acted in a racist manner because that is completely outside my personal belief system. Per my Question above I would like to see diffs for where anyone called him the nasty names he claims Wikipedians (evidently me) are using about him so we can run such nasty people off the site. Beyond that, I am going back to ignoring him. Legacypac (talk) 00:41, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

The only thing I've ever claimed you said is that you've called me, on multiple occasions, an "Iranian" "Anti-American." [92] (including as recently as today - your 19:53 post in this very ANI) LP - TTBOMK people of Iranian ancestry are allowed on WP and one's ethnicity doesn't make one "anti-American" (nor is being "pro-America" a prereq for contributing to WP). (And, for anyone who is still reading this, here is where

I successfully spun my diabolical anti-American conspiracy.) Now, to your other question, yes there are IP editors in the past who have called me things like "a shithole" that should be "nuked" [93] but I haven't brought that up in this ANI - because this is your ANI against me. You brought that up here. Why? If you really want to help, what would be most helpful is if you just stopped calling me names, if you stopped calling other editors names, [94] and if you stopped calling other editors "terrorists." [95] DOCUMENT★ERROR

01:08, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Question: Near the bottom of this page you said today in response to User:PBS saying you were hounding "I can also see that LP has filed an astonishing two dozen ANIs in the last 8 months since his topic ban was lifted (100% regarding content disputes on ISIL topics), the overwhelming majority of which have resulted in no action, on top of numerous, frivolous SPI actions and direct threats of ANIs against (usually new) editors. I can see a pattern of intense intimidation being applied against new editors and a long history of tendentious edits when all else fails, including unilateral page moves and editing against RfC...." Can you provide links to the very specific number of 2 dozen ANis so that we can evaluate your statements about the number and result of such ANi's? Secondly, can you provide links to the numerous SPI actions so we can evaluate the frivolousness of those actions and results? The last SPI I filed resulted in several new socks of globally banned User:Operahome being banned. I don't remember what happened on the previous one. Legacypac (talk) 01:42, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Answer: You asked "can you provide links to the numerous SPI actions so we can evaluate the frivolousness of those actions and results." I don't understand - are you asking me to file an ANI against you? The topic of this sub-thread is Gaming ANI / Counter-Proposal. You came in here with a specific complaint demanding diffs. I provided them. [96] You went silent and moved onto something else not contained in your original ANI and demanded diffs. You got 'em.[97] You then went silent on that and have moved onto this latest demand for diffs on still an entirely different topic. This has, as per MO, gone from an ANI into a madcap fishing expedition. Are you going to offer an explanation regarding the misinformation in the original formatting of your ANI? Third request. DOCUMENT★ERROR 02:17, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

The diffs provided are examples, as you throw out more accusations I'm requesting you substantiate them. I've added a new heading to clarify where the next questions start. Please answer the question with diffs. Legacypac (talk) 03:00, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Legacypac, this is an ANI about me. And I've asked you to substantiate the accusations you made about me vis a vis the misinformation in the original formatting of your ANI (namely that I'm "stalking" editors with whom you interact). Are you going to do that or not? DOCUMENT★ERROR 03:09, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

I hope I now understand what you keep asking. "Stalking and Canvassing editors I'm currently interacting with" means a) Stalking me AND b) Canvassing other editors. I did not suggest you are stalking other editors. Sorry if that was unclear. Now answer the questions. Legacypac (talk) 04:44, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Comment

Kaye

05:56, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

• PROPOSAL: When AN/I is too long, people get tired of both. DOCUMENT★ERROR stated that he no longer edits the article, so impose a topic ban on him alone so the arguments can stop. Also impose a CBAN on both so they no longer interact. 23.27.252.213 (talk) 12:37, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

What article? While I appreciate 23.27.252.213 materializing to call for my head and Greg making this ANI one of his first major contributions after his return from his latest block, as I've noted repeatedly, I haven't edited any ISIL-related article for more than 3 months (due to total lack of interest and because I've been busy improving Delta Upsilon for a GA nom). That said, I concede it would definitely be ... interesting ... to impose a topic ban on someone who isn't involved in a topic. DOCUMENT★ERROR 13:39, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

"Now answer the questions."??? LP, this isn't

WP:GAME the ANI by "plumping" your list of diffs as observed here? What are your thoughts about Ninjarobotpirate's determination that he saw "nothing egregious" in any of the diffs you provided? Is being "Iranian" or an "Anti-American" [sic], as you've repeatedly denounced me for being [99], a violation of our guidelines? Thanks. DOCUMENT★ERROR

13:11, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

In the course of this ANi I've provided diffs to support my complaints and asked specific Questions. In response DocumentError has:
a) made additional unsubstantiated accusations.
b) Canvassed right here by pinging editors from a list he appears to keep of editors that may not like something I've done
c) Messed with my comments right in this thread which User:PBS fixed.
d) failed to actually answer most of my Questions about things he has said or done.
e) failed to provide diffs that actually support his wild accusations.
f) failed to answer reasonable questions posed by other editors to him.

DocumentError can't answer the Questions because he can't provide evidence that does not exist. He's had a fair chance, his accusations have been heard by the Wikiworld, and he has made plenty of other responses. Time to cut off debate. I'd rather not see this circus go on for days. I want to be left in peace.

This is a user conduct issue, not a content dispute. Topic bans are not a relevant remedy. Yes, I can be abrasive. No I don't tolerate game playing and refusal to follow policy. Yes I've taken people to ANi, 3RR etc, but I don't think I abuse those processes. Yup I recently got a SPA IP from Pakistan banned for what I later called cyber-terrorism (editing in a way that was exclusively promoting the biggest baddest terrorist group in the world right now). If someone wants to call for sanctions against me they will need much better evidence then DocumentError has provided.

Proposed Resolution: For making unsubstantiated personal attacks, DocumentError be prohibited from posting any comment about Legacypac anywhere on Wikipedia indefinitely

If that happens, I'll very happily go back to ignoring his existence. Thank-you for reading and Happy New Year. Legacypac (talk) 17:30, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

• SUPPORT - First, that's not asking for too much and shouldn't need an ANI. Second, Legacypac presented a good case. 194.169.217.208 (talk) 17:44, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose any proposal by parties, drama makers, or the like Just close this darn thing, no action taken. Too long, too convoluted, too much 'he said she said' and frankly, too much drama. If there's some unambiguous proof that someone needs to be sanctioned, then that should be stated but otherwise, close this darn thing. Tutelary (talk) 20:23, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose I've shifted through the 18 "Wild unsubstantiated accusations" and whilst I think DocumentError should have used strike-through for some of those diffs, there are few accusations, none of which I would characterise as "wild". The most serious one for which he doesn't provide evidence for is "Yours is (as usual) simply alerting us to the latest personal wrong you believe you have suffered." which I do not believe to be anywhere near deserving a IBAN. His accusation of you not being civil is supported by the tone of your accusation of someone being a child. I therefore believe he did not make unsubstantiated personal attacks.
  talk
  ) 01:08, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

(previously put in wrong section due to edit conflict)

• Oppose proposed resolution, DocumentError should have the right to comment but in a civil way with comments being substantiated. S'he should certainly not be allowed to go to multiple forums with allusions of wrong doing and general claim of poisonous toxicity at a talk page. If anything the problem has been that DocumentError was not specific enough. Talk:ISIL has had 434 distinct editors and specification has still not been certified as to the direction that all comments were targeted. Wikipedia should not be an place where a blunderbuss approach to targeting should be used. I do not necessarily support a specific topic. In my work in places like WP:RM I seem to recollect DocumentError giving helpful and insightful comment on various issues and, while I have not seen this at talk:ISIL, I have no doubt that this may have the potential to also happen here. No form of positive or negative prejudice should be tolerated and if DE has a tendency or anti-Americanism then, if this is not too well hidden, then such issues should be addressed specifically through administration. GregKaye 07:49, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

• Comment on ISIL, From my perspective I am tired of behaviour that I believe can be widely seen by viewing the ISIL and related talk pages. This is in terms of CIVIL, PA, stating opinion as fact, INDCRIT and attacking the person and not the argument. I would very much appreciate any intervention for such activity to stop. In a topic like ISIL I also think that it is reasonable to suspect the possibility of insurgent or Islamist terrorist sympathetic inputs and, for me, this has been confirmed or at least paralleled in a great number of against consensus edits on a range of topics. The ISIL conflict has been largely a Sunni-Shia / ISIL - Sunni/non-ISIL Sunni conflict. For instance, 'SIL's priority is to first tackle/defeat the Sunni Hamas organisation even before tackling Israel. Despite this there has been a concerted effort amongst some editors to highlight Israel's involvement. I think that US involvement (without reference to coalition) has also been inappropriately highlighted at times and I think that, for whatever motive and whether consciously or not, editors have been happy to editorially widen the conflict beyond actual realities.

Editorial canvassing has also been practised between editors to a substantial degree and, as in cases such as is being currently discussed, by an editor that I have seen make good contribution, this at least borders on incitement. I really believe that such inputs need to be dealt with in whatever way practicable for the sake of preserving the cordiality of discussion on a hotbed topic. I agree with Tutelary that there is too much drama but argue that, for this very reason, issues must be dealt with. If the drama is not sorted out here it will just continue elsewhere and AN/I will have failed. Admin cannot close this, for instance, with bland comment but issues must be addressed. GregKaye 07:49, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

• Comment on Legacypac, Legacypac has as far as I have seen widely steered clear of the issues stated above. S/he has also taken great responsibility in chasing down issues of user misconduct on the relevant pages with, as far as I have seen and IMO, largely extremely good effect. In general I also believe that Legacypac's comments have been amongst the more civil of those on Wikipedia. However, within an environment of a High level of confrontation, I have also seen some of your approaches at times to be unnecessarily confrontational. I have also frequently seen Legacypac address issues with a high level of civility which I believe is exemplified here and which I believe is also indicated in a view of general discussion. Please be aware of occasional breaches and I would ask you to review critical comments made. I appreciate, for instance, that the "are you a child" comment came in a context or a perceived context but, none-the-less, I think that you should consider the appropriateness of such comments as relatively rare as they may be. GregKaye 07:49, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Block

OK, now I've reviewed this thread, as requested by DocumentError. Something that stands out here (and also in posts made on other pages during this, timewise, quite brief ANI) is DocumentError's persistent and quite specific accusations against Legacypac and dancing around repeated requests to substantiate them. They either ignore requests for diffs or specifics or bat them away with rebuffs such as "I don't understand - are you asking me to file an ANI against you?… this is an ANI about me", or "This isn't

I was patrolling recent changes and came across this offensive unblock request, which I have reverted: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Phillip_J_Henderson&diff=prev&oldid=641568858

Should we remove his talk page privleges?

Don't do that. There's no need to revert something someone says on their own talk page just because it contains the word "fuck". Let an admin decline the request. --Closedmouth (talk) 12:47, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

It's a silly unblock request from a person that is simply here to waste time. I revoked the talk page access before he reverted the unblock request.

WP:DENY and move on. Kuru (talk)

12:50, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

I am not sure where to put this, but I thought some here might find it interesting. A definition for London School of Economics on the Urban Dictionary website claims that LSE has 'produced a quarter of all nobel prize winners in Economics' [100]. Whilst a significant number of such winners have been associated with LSE, far fewer have been produced by LSE: from [101], I can count no more than five out of seventy-five. Nonetheless, this claim was forced into the lead of the article by single-purpose accounts [102], [103], [104], where it has stayed for around six months. Amazingly, The Guardian fell for this and repeated the claim on its website [105]. I am not sure who should feel most embarrassed: Wikipedia or The Guardian! 86.170.130.156 (talk) 13:50, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

So your quarrel isn't with the numbers (16 out of 45), it's with the description (produced vs. associated with), right? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 13:58, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

There is not really a quarrel as such: it is just a typical bit of school/college/university vandalism that this time went undetected and was picked up by others. Would you mind closing this here, sorry? I was not sure where to let people know so posted here, but I remembered

WP:RSN afterwards.86.170.130.156 (talk

) 14:07, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

I have managed it myself. :) 86.170.130.156 (talk) 14:09, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Baseball_  Bugs (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log),

Baseball Bugs personally attacked me here [112] even after I asked him to be civil here [113]

I ask for a block or an official warning. 23.27.252.124 (talk) 15:34, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

You're an experienced user pretending to be a newbie. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:36, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

The fact that the IP editor knows to post the comment here currently suggests that BB is right. John Carter (talk) 15:42, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

The actual issue needs to be considered separately not speculating. 23.27.252.124 (talk) 15:46, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

The actual issue is that you're acting suspiciously. Straighten up and fly right, and you'll be more likely to be treated in kind. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:02, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

The actual issue here is that you personally attacked me. I prefer assumption of good faith not speculation.23.27.252.124 (talk) 16:05, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

I said you're not a newbie, which is obvious. That's not a personal attack. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:06, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

See the warning here: [114] Legacypac (talk) 16:09, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

What brought you here is this "You're being dishonest. Start being honest, and you'll get better treatment". This is a personal attack. Also, please be civil and stop speculation.23.27.252.124 (talk) 16:12, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

I see, we have 23.27.252.213 (talk · contribs) who is currently blocked until the 14th, and we have 23.27.252.124 (talk · contribs) who is obviously the same guy, evading his block. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:14, 8 January 2015 (UTC)