Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1003

Page: User talk:Luciusfoxx (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)
User being reported:

1. [2]she tells me,"fuck off"
2. [3]tells me to "get over myself" for refusing to agree with her unsolicited opinion on politics
3. [4]threatens to wiki-lawyer me with frivolous ANIs
4. [5]she tells me,"fuck your shitty, condescending bullshit sideways with a sandpaper dildo and hot sauce as lube"

1. Personal attacks evidence Personal attacks from
   User:MPants at work began with remarks like "get over yourself" and unprovoked, pre-emptive thinly-veiled threats like "you just are just begging to be quoted in an ANI thread about you". They are clearly uncivil, lack good faith, and are forms of personal attacks. Yet after my humble polite warning to keep it civil, the editor doubles-down on her personal attacks from with verbal sexual assault telling me in her edit summary"fuck your shitty, condescending bullshit sideways with a sandpaper dildo and hot sauce as lube."[6] and then vandalizing my talk page, saying "fuck off" and proceeding to threaten me with an ANI over what she considers to be "the blatant hypocrisy" my opinions.[7]
   Just because she does not like my opinion, does not mean she has the right to attack me. I would imagine anyone with enough knowledge and experience to threaten with an ANI is also knowledgeable enough to know that this kind of severe NSFW language and sexually derogatory harassment of another at least constitutes a personal attack, let alone language never acceptable here.
2. Warning given: I politely gave a warning to apply good faith and to cease the personal attacks.[8] In retaliation, the disruptive editor attacked me again, with two severe personal attacks, one of which (again) was verbally violent and sexually derogatory.

Personal attacks and threats against me AFTER my warning:

1. [9]
2. [10]

This is pretty cut and dry. For those reviewing, thank you for your time and understanding.Luciusfoxx (talk) 21:47, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Comments:
@

• I'm not inclined to dig through the history here, but for a bit of background see the OP's fuckwittery and disruption at
  Iridescent 22:12, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
• (edit conflict) The sandpaper comment is ... a lot, but I don't think this is really actionable. I'd recommend looking at the context for this, regardless: Talk:Dinesh_D'Souza#Felony_status. This looks like another case study in (a) how much leeway do we give someone when dealing with brand new blatant-POV-pushers with woefully poor grasp of NPOV or RS and a greater-than-their-edit-count grasp of templates and process, and (b) how much leeway do we give someone concerning their own talk page. The latter has typically been quite a lot. The former has typically been greater than when engaging with other editors clearly here to collaboratively build a neutral encyclopedia. Maybe better to just ignore, report to NPOVN, or wait for the inevitable TBAN... — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 22:21, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

• "Whose sock is this?" is a popular parlour game for American Politics articles... Only in death does duty end (talk) 22:29, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

• I'll play, Only in death. Five bucks says it's Hidden Tempo's latest. Bishonen | talk 22:40, 19 February 2019 (UTC).

Tsk. I made exactly ONE mild edit to the D'Souza page, which was civil. When I was reverted, I left it alone. I kept my talk page discussion focused on content, not editors, and only offered my own humble opinion about D'Souza. There was nothing "disruptive" or even provocative about my personal opinion (which I kept to a minimum) regarding what belongs in a lead paragraph. However, it speaks for itself if you honestly think that sexually derogatory attacks or verbally violent language from an editor who has already been warned and been banned over this kind of behavior "is not actionable". Why have rules at all then in the presence of said anarchy and open-sport on depravity? However, flawed your logic is, thank you for your time and opinion.Luciusfoxx (talk) 22:32, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

I made exactly ONE mild edit to the D'Souza page, which was civil. When I was reverted, I left it alone. I kept my talk page discussion focused on content, not editors, and only offered my own humble opinion about D'Souza. There was nothing "disruptive" or even provocative about my personal opinion (which I kept to a minimum) regarding what belongs in a lead paragraph.—you are aware that we can read, right? Incidentally, see also this. ‑ 

Iridescent 22:35, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Substantially, I was referring to my one edit on the actual article itself. Not the talk. On the talk page itself was only one primary rebuttal, and three short replies (I think) to different editors. Not including minor edits to fix grammar and the like, it was hardly what you are making out to be.Luciusfoxx (talk) 22:44, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

• I guess there are two options here (at least there are two that aren't counterfactual). (1) We can regard this as a two-way problem where both the accuser and the accused should be sanctioned, or (2) We can regard this as a two-way problem where both the accuser and the accused should be told to calm down and avoid one another for a while. I think the shortest route back to peaceful editing (which ought to be the objective) is number 2. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:40, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

The ANI thread also lead to the widely-participated "Fuck off" RfC. During the RfC, MPants self-requested to be blocked and was done so for 3 months[11]. After coming back after the block expired on February 5, he has apparently returned to his old ways:

• Violence fantasies[12] The context here is humorous, but it's worth noting that MPants was warned for threats of violence in the last ANI thread.
• After being given a civility template by a new user called Luciusfoxx (talk · contribs), MPants removed it from his talk page with the edit summary: fuck your shitty, condescending bullshit sideways with a sandpaper dildo and hot sauce as lube.[13]
• He then banned Luciusfoxx from his talk page with the title "You can stay the fuck off my talk page"[14]

Clearly treating others with respect was just an empty promise to avoid being blocked in the last ANI thread. I have been banned from his talkpage for requesting him to remove a -180deg code there[15], so I am unable to bring this up that way. --Pudeo (talk) 21:59, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

• Luciusfoxx passive-aggressive bullshit really is tiresome. It does need to be fucked with a sandpaper dildo. That is of course, not the same as saying Luciousfoxx needs to be fucked with a sandpaper dildo. A distinction which is pretty small to be fair. Asking for comments from 'non-liberal objective' editors is pretty much asking to be slapped with DS warning let alone being told in plain English 'keep this up and you will end up at a noticeboard'. Only in death does duty end (talk) 22:13, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

This kind of comment speaks for itself, and the problem here.Luciusfoxx (talk) 22:38, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

• I don't have too much more to add to this beyond what I wrote above, but .... violence fantasies is nonsense. Objective3000 said, in the context of the sometimes unpleasant atmosphere in parts of Wikipedia, "I treat it like a video game with AI characters designed to annoy me." MP followed on that line by saying "I usually shoot annoying NPCs in video games." To read it here you'd think MP was issuing subtle threats rather than carrying on a jokey metaphor about nobody in particular... — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 22:26, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

However, this is not simply jokey and you are placing less of a priority on that kind of behavior than what you just complained about. Obvious red-herring is obvious.Luciusfoxx (talk) 22:38, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

I was actually thinking of responding to MP: “Wow, you need help – or more bullets.” Obviously, this wasn’t anything like a threat or even fantasy. And, I differ with MP as he likes guns and I think the age for ownership should be raised to 100. I am a strong believer in civility

WP:5P4. Civility is lacking everywhere in human discourse and that’s problematic. But, I also believe in frank characterizations, which may border on incivility. Fact is, MP’s history clearly displays a willingness to argue for additions/deletions contrary to his own beliefs. That is, he takes the side of neutrality over what might aide a case for his own beliefs. We need more of this. We need editors that can call out POV editing even if it fits their own beliefs. How else can we stay true to our concept of neutrality and honest presentation in a time of great controversy? O3000 (talk) 23:16, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

• I'm curious why Pudeo keeps showing up to complain about me, given that we've never interacted outside of these threads. Check our contributions; this editor has never interacted with me except by starting ANI threads in an attempt to get me sanctioned. It's childish and pretty much textbook
  harassment. And their "evidence" above is pure spin. "He enjoy playing Far Cry, therefore he must be menace!!" Give me a fucking break. One might note that in all of Pudeo's contributions at any of the drama boards, they've never once failed to a) attack a liberal-seeming editor or b) defend a conservative seeming editor. Add to that the fact that they kept a swastika
  on their user page with a pithy little note that reads more like an excuse to keep it up every time I see it, and a pretty clear picture begins to emerge of what, exactly, Pudeo is doing on this project.

As for Lucious; they insulted me twice while trying to be subtle about it (once asking for "non-liberal, objective (read: neutral) editors" after I responded to a ridiculous edit suggestion, and then again claiming they would be offended if someone called them a liberal after I self-identified as one), then had the audacity to template me for non-existent personal attacks. This playing the victim schtick from obvious POV pushers (how obvious, you ask? How about claiming that a convicted felon is "a law-abiding citizen unlike Weiner or the Clintons" in the same comment in which he

directly accuses Hillary Clinton of treason

).

So yeah, my response was salty. It was also another experienced editor's "favorite edit summary", because it is exactly what I wrote it to be: snort-milk-out-your-nose funny.

Tell me all about it. 22:39, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

I do not have a quarrel with you. I pity you. I never baited or directed an insult, Mpants. My remark was clearly a general remark asking for non-partisan, non-liberal and, yes, non-conservative editors to come in and chime in on the debate since a non-biased editor who is not invested politically in the article carries weight. There was nothing in that remark directed at you, and I dare you, Mpants, to show any one where that was the case. And, yes, I did say that labeling someone as liberal, (or even conservative, etc.) would be insulting...as you don't know me and I don't know you. Labeling, period, is insulting. Again, nothing there directed at you personally. Your thin-skin is not my sin. You are just trying to rationalize clearly inappropriate behavior, behavior you've apparently been admonished for before. Thank you taking the time to open up about your motives.Luciusfoxx (talk) 22:58, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

My gripe is that you are driving other editors (some of which I happen to like) away with your extreme hostility. Yet if anyone says something negative, you ban them from your talkpage. It's hard not to notice you since your hostile discussions take place on noticeboards. Just a while ago you had a spat with Walter Görlitz on RSN and said he might be blocked for insults like saying your thinking isn't clear.[16]. You realize he or I would be blocked for saying what you just said because we don't have a

WP:UNBLOCKABLES posse defending whatever we do? That is very arrogant. For what's it worth, it's also important to oppose these kind of double standards on policy enforcement because what's enabling your abusive behauvior is that you know you can get away with it. --Pudeo (talk) 23:20, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

My gripe is that you are driving other editors (some of which I happen to like) away with your extreme hostility. Name one.

Yet if anyone says something negative, you ban them from your talkpage. Bullshit. I just responded to a message that was essentially the same as Lucius' templated message by welcoming it.

You realize he or I would be blocked for saying what you just said because we don't have a

WP:UNBLOCKABLES

posse defending whatever we do? Walter directly insulted me, and is not blocked, so that's some bullshit, right there. But maybe you should ask yourself why other editors don't seem to want to come to your defense, while they seem happy to come to the defense of a guy whom you seem to think insults anyone who disagrees with him.

That is very arrogant. Being defended by others is arrogant? That word you keep using... I do not think it means what you think it means.

For what's it worth, it's also important to oppose these kind of double standards on policy enforcement because what's enabling your abusive behauvior is that you know you can get away with it. You keep patting yourself on the back like that and you'll get tennis elbow.

Tell me all about it. 23:40, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

• And the editor who described it as a favorite edit summary was me. (Actually, my real favorite was when I reverted an edit at Flying Spaghetti Monster as being "unsourced and unsauced", but whatever.) The bottom line here is that MPants was baited. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:43, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

• I get very uncomfortable excusing things because of "baiting" as though Wikipedia editors cannot be held accountable for their actions if someone else did something first. I wish that MP would just keep it mellow, or at least leave the spicy personal massagers and whatnot out of it (and, well, everything). While I don't think that baiting is a viable excuse, I do think that those rules about civility stem from the idea that Wikipedia is a community of editors. A probable sock clearly with no intention of contributing to a neutral, well-sourced article is not the same thing. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 22:52, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

• OK, maybe "baiting" wasn't the most precise word choice (although the project has no shortage of master baiters), but I really do think that the dispute here begins with Luciusfoxx, whose user page is a declaration of pro-Trump POV-pushing, starting a discussion by saying that Trump's pardon of D'Souza means that D'Souza was innocent and was the victim of a "hit-job". Does that justify an angry dismissal from a user talk page? Well, the anger didn't just come out of the blue. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:02, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

• PS: found that gem. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 22:58, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

• TY! --Tryptofish (talk) 23:02, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

• Welp, MjolnirPants, Any hopes I might have had for a collegial work environment with collaborative editing partners died long ago. Though the metaphors are quite . . . charming. On the other hand, Luciusfoxx, you ever here of Wikipedia:Don't template the regulars or even (for either if you) Wikipedia:Don't take the bait? If I were either of you, I'd have probably just thanked the other for their thoughts and let it go. Before it got to ANI, but here we are. Not sure I'd endorse any sort of admin action here other than to say SMDH. What Rhododendrites said. Dlohcierekim (talk) 22:59, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Oh, I'm always polite to polite people, even when they look like fringe POV pushers (case in point). It's bullshit like Lucius' smarmy condescension and not-so-subtle insults that lends itself to smartassery on my part.

Tell me all about it. 23:04, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

• I'll give you better odds - 2:1 - than Bishonen - it's User:Hidden Tempo. Purposefully trying to provoke one of his "old enemies" with passive aggressive bullshit.Volunteer Marek (talk) 23:06, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

I' will not take that bet. I know a bad deal when I see one.

Tell me all about it. 23:08, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Without the tools, too risky a bet as Hidden Tempo is a chameleon. O3000 (talk) 23:20, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

The D'Souza talk page has gems like this from LuciusFoxxx: "the treason that Hillary committed by sharing classified emails and trying to destroy the Kavanaugh nomination". If I read that correctly he thinks Hillary Clinton committed treason by trying to destroy the Kavanaugh nomination. There's so many idiotic claims packed into that short phrase that regardless of whether it's HT or not, it's got to be either a troll or an extreme case of

WP:COMPETENCE.Volunteer Marek (talk) 23:35, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Tsk, tsk. Yet democracy had its say on both Hillary and Kavanaugh. Winners don't call losers "idiots", they don't have to. Now that we both had our 2 cents, since it seems you are really obsessed with my opinion in no less than several posts from youabout me, can we keep the soapboxing out of this thread now that you got your fix? ;) As for the business of this thread - Having read up on Hidden-Tempo. All your PTSD and projection makes a little more sense. If he's a chameleon, then an elephant is an oversized rodent. Don't give that apparently no-there editor too much credit. For everything you must've put up with you'd have my empathy if it wasn't for all your subtle cligue(ish) trolling against me. Objective3000l, I'd listen to Mpants. Everyone else. I will take that bet, on me of course. Wishing this was Vegas about now. For once you are making sense, Mpants. I suppose even a broken record, I mean, watch can be right once a day. I know it's twice, and I have the feeling with your jokes and distractions, enabled by the other disruptive editors, that is your way of acknowledging the mistake in your actions in your own "salty" way. Your tonal change and h-mming and h-awing insecurity just barely under the words gives it away. So I guess that makes 2. If that's all it takes to get away with clearly and deliberately disruptive behavior --- bad joking around, distracting and whataboutism --- then the time is officially up insofar as my duty bring order to this unmanagable chaos. There is nothing "salty" or "jokey" about that kind of personal, sexually derogatory verbal attack. Lame excuses with even weaker words. Maybe wikipedia like the rest of the world is hitting rockbottom. Thankfully I have a thick skin, though I confess comparing me to someone like this Hiddentempo stung a little. Regardless of the outcome of this row, everyone, lighten up a little next time. Will ya? LoL Your blood pressure(s) with thank you for it.Luciusfoxx (talk) 23:48, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

Now that the spleen-venting and dazzling repartee have run down, and the discussion degenerated to base pasta-pushing, with an unknown effect on our blood pressures, can we close with no further action as victim and victor (whoever they might be) seem ready to move on. And shan't we all just "lighten up"?

• Support as proposer Dlohcierekim (talk) 00:04, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

  I really don't know why the OP's are allowed to !vote on proposals. IMHO, and as we already know the OP's opinon regarding evisceration and defenestration, !voting should be confined to those who are at least putatively neutral. Pudeo. Kindly. Drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass Dlohcierekim (talk) 01:07, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

• Honestly, I'd like to see Lucius blocked as an
  Tell me all about it. 00:22, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose
  WP:CIVILITY policy needs to be enforced in the light of one of the most egregious violations there have been, unless we are to stop enforcing the policy altogether. Again I refer to the civility RfC. --Pudeo (talk) 00:26, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Can an admin please explain to Pudeo that this campaign to get me blocked is not cool? Especially when it requires twisting the truth into a gordian knot to make a case. This thread was far more of a disruption than my edit summary was.

Tell me all about it. 00:34, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

• Support close and boomerang it's clear as mud from here, and the trolling's not getting any clearer.
  54129 00:29, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
• Obvious sock has been blocked; we should try a little harder not to get trolled so easily. MJP's "fuck you, you goddamn fucking fucker" shtick is getting old, but I assume we'll wait to do something about it until he isn't being obviously baited by a sock. --Floquenbeam (talk) 00:33, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

  Ye gad! Who saw that coming? Dlohcierekim (talk) 01:09, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Good point. Now, how do we react more quickly than by baiting the baiters? Seems we need to go through this timesink process whenever.... And, these events are becoming more common. O3000 (talk) 01:10, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

(I've renamed this section from "Pants Reopened" since a !vote for indeffing the user is apparently underway below. Isa (talk) 16:06, 21 February 2019 (UTC))

• The latest news is that I declined MJP's unblock request, since it did not adequately address...well you know the phrase. Admins, go see if you think my decline was fair. I do not like blocking an editor like MJP any more than Cullen328 does, I'm sure; I wouldn't have placed the block, but Cullen did probably also because he's more courageous than me. I would have likely granted a serious unblock request; maybe one will come, and I then someone should grant it. But here's the thing (see also Floquenbeam's comment right above this)--I do not really think MP was baited, and I think this might have been handled better earlier, with the help of an admin/ANI, and then Lucius (whoever he is) would have been done away with earlier. Drmies (talk) 05:23, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
• For good measure, I also declined an (even longer) unblock request from Luciusfoxx. Drmies (talk) 05:32, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

I do not really think MP was baited...

REALLY? Oh for the love of God. He was not only baited, the baiting was aided and abetted by Pudeo. --Calton | Talk 08:50, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Have to say I agree with both the block, and the rejection of the unblock request. As with some others, I'm not seeing the baiting. The Dinesh D'Souza suggestions were silly, but while there were some minor personal attacks like "non-liberal, objective (read: neutral)", if people can't tolerate these sort of minor things without blowing up like that, I think the American politics topic area, or really any politics topic area, is not one for them. Likewise

WP:DTTR does not mean if someone does template you one time, you can blow up in a way seriously out of proportion to the templating.

Note that I do not consider the silliness of the proposals at Dinesh D'Souza in any way baiting, or justification for blowing up like that. For starters, while the proposals may have been silly, they weren't someway intended to attack MJP. Or if there is some background that I'm not aware of which means MJP takes such silly proposals very personally, while they have their sympathies, but the best solution is for them to stay away from that article when it means so much to them. The non personal aspects of dealing with silly proposals is not justification for reacting in that way.

Ultimately paraphrasing what someone else said, while there are a lot of problems in the American politics area at the moment, comments like that of MJP aren't helping the situation any, they are making it worse.

(And frankly, I think there's a bias in the way we deal with these sort of things. I get the feeling if an Indian or Pakistani or a Croatian, Serbian or Bosnian had left a comment remotely similar in response to basically the same thing i.e. someone making a completely silly proposal, then say they wanted the opinions of non 'other side' editors (read neutral), then being templated with a civility warning, they wouldn't have received a block as lenient as 31 hours.)

Incidentally, I'm unclear what role Pudeo played in this. They don't seem to have made any comments at Talk:Dinesh D'Souza or made any recent at User talk:MjolnirPants. They did comment in this thread, or more accurately open this subthread but whatever the rights and wrongs of their comments in this thread, clearly they are not the cause of MjolnirPants making comments which are part of the reason this thread was started. Unless MjolnirPants is a time traveler, in which case can they tell us when the US gets rid of Trump?

P.S. In case it's unclear, I'm saying in my opinion the block was justified before the whole thread was started from what MJP had already did which was raised in the beginning of this thread, in particular that edit summary. Therefore comments in the thread itself are largely irrelevant to any baiting suggestions and I've only skimmed through it.

Nil Einne (talk) 09:29, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

P.S. As a point of clarification, I would have far more sympathy if Luciousfoxx was expressing racist, sexist or other beyond the pale sentiments, but they weren't. Nil Einne (talk) 10:51, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

• I have left a note on Pants' talk page endorsing the block. I understand exactly where he's coming from on this, and get the frustration that comes from trying to keep ARBAP articles in check; however I cannot possibly work out any way that suggesting the other party inserts sandpaper in some unpleasant bodily part is in any way conductive or helpful to resolving the dispute. I suppose if I had to link to something it would be
  WP:NOTTHERAPY - you cannot say "fuck you, fuck you and fuck you .... who's next?" and not expect to get criticism over it being "an appropriate cathartic response". Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:36, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Indeed, not only do I have to reluctantly voice support for the short-term block for MP, seeing as this is this the first time that the community has asked him to turn down the volume in personal disputes (even where he is not the aggressor starting the brujaja), I think if we see anything of a similar tone in the future, the community will have to consider a more substantial, long-term response. I say this without enthusiasm, as MP was dealing with a clearly

WP:NOTHERE editor, and because he delivers not-insubstantial contributions to the encyclopedia. But the costs to the project that accrue when we do not enforce our basic behavioural standards will always end up dwarfing the contributions of any one editor. I hope that Mjolnir will be able to see that almost every response that he has received asking him to make adjustments (both here and on his talk page) come with caveats expressing appreciation for his work generally, and he will thus be able to understand this is not a dogpile that embraces what might have been the troll's objective from the outset (tearing him down in the eyes of the community), but rather an effort to preserve a colleague's valuable contributions without compromising our standards on civility and disruption. Snow ^{let's rap} 21:03, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

• As long as we are here again, I was going to wait for the dust to settle and then open an RfC on Pants excited utterances. SO I endorse his block and ask that he be admonished to just plain stop the problem behavior we are so aware of. Going forward, it needs to stop. Baited or not. Violent sexual imagery is right out; it should result in an immediate block if it recurs. He needs to learn to ignore or respond in a manner that does not worsen the situation and make him look like a hothead with poor impulse control. And, yes, I like most of what he does here, but he's becoming a net negative. Dlohcierekim (talk) 21:15, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

  oppose indef Dlohcierekim (talk) 03:21, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

  I think an indef is too extreme at this point. First block for this particular issue. Dlohcierekim (talk) 03:23, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• Nothing against MJP but personally I endorse the block, It's one thing telling someone to fuck off but it's another to say what he did, Sure I've on the odd occasion told someone to "F Off or even "Go F Yourself" ... but IMHO they're nothing compared to his comment. –Davey2010^Talk 22:05, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

• Am I the only one here who thinks that "Pants Reopened" was not the most felicitous choice of words? Anyway, Looking back at this ANI thread from top to bottom, I'm struck by all the piling on with endorsements of the block, after pretty much crickets along those lines before the block happened. Yes, it's very courageous to agree with it after someone else has taken the first step. I actually think in hindsight that the block was justified, but still. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:51, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

• TBH, I recommennded closing too soon as I thought the fire was out, and then it was closed, reopened and closed again. That was my fault in trying too hard to get us past the issue w/o someone getting blocked. All fell apart, didn't it? Now both are blocked. Now that he is blocked, well Cullen was right. And as this has been reopened, we might as well as deal with the conduct here and now. Dlohcierekim (talk) 00:01, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
• Ironically, and in my defense, I was going for :Tryptofish option 2 Dlohcierekim (talk) 00:30, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• And in your further defense, both of us were right. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:43, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• It's not only possible but likely (given the sentiments expressed above) that most of those commenting since the block are admins who were absent for the initial (and very brief) discussion who would have been willing to let the matter drop without blocking MP, seeing as the discussion was already closed. But when Cullen did block MP and received a response from Mjolnir suggesting Cullen was out of line/"stirring up shit", those very same admins felt compelled to point out (in a civil but blunt fashion) that at the end of the day no one was responsible for that block but Mjolnir himself. That all seems pretty above-board, good-faith and perfectly reasonable to me--and I suspect that many of those users (just as yourself on MP's talk page) have his best interests in mind and are trying to make sure he takes away the right lesson from this, rather than just feeling embittered. That said, the message I hope he listens most attentively to is yours--particularly as regards the practical benefits that can be leveraged from using a reserved/civil approach even when dealing with those editors who deserve it least. One doesn't have to to be a saint to understand the advantages of keeping cool in the face of provocation, as you quite rightly point out there. Snow ^{let's rap} 00:12, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• Endorse block And if the editor doesn't directly address the reasons for this block (I couldn't see any in his unblock request), extend block indefinitely to avoid disruption. I've seen many of his types and like his verbosity at a personal level (humour, et al); but crap is crap and should be sounded out and blocked. Childish behaviour really. Lourdes 00:24, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

That's a truly terrible idea. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:30, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes, the number of times we waste our community's efforts discussing this editor at ANI is truly terrible. And the allusions to movie lines as being his reason for misdirected humour, are childish. This editor doesn't have a long future at a project where we should commit to stop abusing. I'll probably ping you and offer my happy condolences when the editor's tenure finally ends here. Editors like this are simply not welcome. Lourdes 00:35, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

I understand the principle of what you are saying, but you don't understand the particulars. Anyway, I doubt that it will have consensus. (And I'll be fighting like hell if anyone acts on it.) --Tryptofish (talk) 00:39, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• Meta-humor: "Pants reopened"? Was there a zipper failure?  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  00:28, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

  Yeah, this one broke open: 🤐 Leviv ich 00:57, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

  Zip it, both of you! --Tryptofish (talk) 01:01, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

  Open this link at your own risk! --Tryptofish (talk) 01:09, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

  "Is it safe to hover over, or can I catch mice?" Martinevans123 (talk) 16:28, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• Yawn. The good news is that MPants exposed a sock. The bad news is that MP went too far. I support his brief block, much as I really enjoy and value his presence. But, we’re piling time sink upon time sink. O3000 (talk) 01:17, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
• Endorse and endorse indef extension until the editor addresses the reasons for the block. This is a long-term behavioral pattern, and the current block is not achieving the goal of preventing continued disruptive behavior. I warned this user in March 2018: "Don't confuse our generally lenient civility enforcement with a lack of enforcement of non-negotiable policies. If you're under the impression that we're going to play games with you, you're wrong. You've established a serious behavioral problem, and I will be blocking you if it continues. ... As it stands, your behavior is fundamentally incompatible with the collaborative nature of this project, and I'm not going to be spending my time arguing with you about it. You either need to do something about it voluntarily, or you're going to lose your good standing over this. None of this combativeness is going to be tolerated." (Note: This was after I left them a very respectful, amicable message attempting to resolve the issue voluntarily.) Here they are, blocked, and still not taking any of it seriously. ~Swarm~ {talk} 03:12, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
• I have to agree with swarm above, there is no excuse to use angry edit summeries referencing torture or sexual assault, I am very disappointed that some editors think being frustrated with a sock gives anyone a free pass for all abusive language. Tornado chaser (talk) 03:27, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose indef, oppose current block as over the top. There's an encyclopaedia to be written, and some people here seem to have got themselves completely (over)invested in this.
  54129 12:21, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose indef, oppose current block per Serial Number 54129. This pile-on is insane. Nihlus 12:33, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose per Nihlus. ∯WBG^converse 14:12, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
• Support indef block per Swarm. I've had a few run-ins with MjolnirPants, particularly [17] and [18]. This recent discussion just reinforces my view that his behavior is unlikely to improve ever. He has already been warned many times, yet continued UNCIVIL combative behavior. This even towards admins who just blocked him for behaving poorly! "I mean, seriously. The ANI thread was done, the troll was blocked and everything was settling down until you showed up and decided to act like johnny fucking law. You're not preventing shit: you're starting more." and "That was created between me reverting the troll here and the troll starting the ANI thread. But now, we gotta deal with this new shit that you brought here by deciding to punish me.". The pattern is extremely consistent and has persisted for years, in obvious violation of WP:CIVIL. ALL his last 5 edit violate WP:CIVIL often on multiple grounds. "Jesus, dude, did you even glance at the article before you decided to mansplain to us what's in it?", "If you can't understand how what I said directly addresses your objection, then you don't have the competence to participate in this discussion.". The user seems to be given repeated leniency in violation of so many different policies over many years. Deleet (talk) 14:29, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

@

pound of flesh back. I saw nothing blockable at Talk:Eugenics and neither did any other admin. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:58, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• Shame on the editors minimizing/defending/making excuses for this behavior. ~Swarm~ {talk} 14:48, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Shame on you,

54129

• Swarm, this's a way out of line comment. Please retract. ∯WBG^converse 15:30, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Wow. Imagine being more offended by a generalized comment criticizing incivility apologists than by sexual violence. I kindly refer both of you to the quote at bottom of my userpage for my stance on what behavior is "out of line". ~Swarm~ {talk} 15:53, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanking you, Swarm; I am not referred anywhere. But I note that you do not see the paucity of casting shade on editors in the middle of a discussion about that very subject; indeed, doubling down on it with suggestions that they are also "sexual violence" apologists is hardly an improvement.

54129 16:04, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

As you can see above, in the AN3 report linked by Deleet, I told MPants to just let things go and dial it back a bit. On his talk page I've advised him to resist the urge to retaliate. Yet I think kicking him off the project is a totally disproportionate response, and there's not been enough thought into what caused the outbursts in the first place. It is possible for a whole bunch of people to be wrong, to varying degrees. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:07, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

I don't know why you're being so defensive regarding a simple, general comment that criticizes editors who are defending egregious behavior like casually invoking sexual violence. That's something that's actually offensive, protesting such behavior is not, at least, not from a policy perspective, and not from my basic standard of morality. Honestly, it's a little concerning that you see an equivalency between egregiously toxic and uncivil behavior and simply criticizing such behavior. I had always thought you to be more reasonable than that. ~Swarm~ {talk} 16:30, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• Support indef if not explicit from my earlier comments. The October 2018 ANI thread already had an extensive diff collection of astounding personal attacks which he promised to dial down but did not. The hostile attitude is well conceived with his talkpage edit notice. No one should have to deal with a person who's this abusive. Nowhere did MJP admit any wrong-doing in this ANI thread despite the violent sexual imagery which I think is pretty much unheard of in Wikipedia, and instead attacked the admin who placed a short block. This attitude and failure to change it is incompatible with building an encyclopedia. --Pudeo (talk) 15:10, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
• Support indef block per Deleet. This isn't a one-off incident, or even a set of incidents. It's a long-term pattern of
  WP:BATTLEGROUND
  conduct.

Note that MJP's abusiveness is so ingrained that it is even in their editnotice, which is now up for deletion at WP:Miscellany for deletion/User talk:MjolnirPants/Editnotice, after an even more abusive editnotice was deleted last year. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:24, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose indef as completely disproportionate, no real opinion on this block. Guy (Help!) 15:22, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose any blocks at this time Walk a mile in MPants' shoes please. I haven't been blocked directly, but my local library was long-term blocked and I didn't want to log in, so I was prevented from improving the encyclopedia by a block. Yeah, I was pissed off about it and wrote a grumpy unblock request that was declined, making me even grumpier about it. A bit of empathy goes a long way. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:55, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Ritchie, you describe the situation as if MJP was blocked for some technicality and lashed out in shocked hurt.
    The reality is that this was an escalation of a long-term battleground approach. Yes, of course I empathise with MJP's clear need for improved anger management (or even for a few first steps on that path), but that doesn't alter the fact that en.wp has conduct policies which need toi be upheld for the sake of community health. We can't continue to indulge these systematic violations of core policy in the hope that MJP will develop anger-management skills which they have resisted for so long. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 16:19, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Let me try and give an example of how this has blown up. Consider the following statements, which superficially might appear to meet

WP:CIVIL but are quite unpleasant : "I sincerely believe that there is strong scientific evidence that white people are biologically equipped to have a greater intellectual capacity than black people. For example, consider these citations : [a][b][c]". Or "I think there's been a noticeable anti-Brexit sentiment appearing on Twitter. Is it just me, or is anyone else getting this? Those who voted remain should just accept a democratic result and stop being annoying. Britain is a white country and we are Christians. No deal!" Those aren't actual comments, but an example, although they are broadly based on real things I've seen on social media. I think my point holds - we really need to look at the underlying circumstances calmly and carefully. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:36, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• Endorse block but oppose indef mostly per Dlohcierekim. GAB^gab 15:58, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
• Support indef If this is an example of his learning his lesson [[19]], seriously?Slatersteven (talk) 16:08, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

  Your comment is a demonstration of the point he is trying to make. Nihlus 16:14, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

How, that post is a massive PA against both a specific user and unnamed users (also outing, what are all those external links, they are not showing any edits here that would be problematic, what a user does off wiki is irrelevant). If he does not have the patience to deal with POV pushers, then this is not going to go away. Thus we will be back here the next time he decides to "not have patience", and we will go thorough this whole circus again, an indef prevents that (and that is what blocks are for, prevention). Just how many violations can you cram into one post?, it look deliberate.Slatersteven (talk) 16:23, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

FFS I did not follow those exlinks. If it is outing, then that does require and indef and those exlinks need revdel. Dlohcierekim (talk) 16:31, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

They have been redacted for that very reason.Slatersteven (talk) 16:34, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• Well MJP's comment was shockingly unhelpful/unpromising/uninsghtfull. Dlohcierekim (talk) 16:15, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose Way out of line for the offense. PackMecEng (talk) 16:20, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose further action as it's clear from certain sets of comments both above and below that everyone has become too emotionally involved in this, myself included (see below), to make objective judgements. But MjolnirPants ought to consider this their super-ultra-final warning, boss mode bonus round: to put it simply, another incident like this and you'll be gone, and it's entirely on you to not let that happen. If you're being harassed, see
  WP:DWH, and ask for help. (edit conflict) I also think there are too many editors commenting here who still have swastikas displayed on their user pages. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 16:20, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
• Support indef A couple of thousand article edits compared to 13,500 talk and WP is a lot of arguing. Leaky caldron (talk) 16:24, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
• While I was writing my comment above, MjolnirPants wrote a bunch of grossly inappropriate things on their talk page which require oversight, and I have blocked them indefinitely. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 16:27, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

  It's funny what happens when multiple people over-personalize an issue, constantly badger someone, make ridiculous and unwarranted blocks, and continue to pile on before the user has even returned. This whole charade is disgraceful. Nihlus 16:32, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

What exactly do we need from MjolnirPants going forward? I mean, we’ve all applauded Cullen for blocking, but what next? I say no more sexually violent imagery. That using “fuck” to me indicates loss of self control, I would ask MjolnirPants to step back and not respond when angry. Yep, I see a lot of anger referenced in the earlier thread. (I am not talking about the word '’per se’’, but the anger it represents). And, pray to whatever god you worship we don’t meet in real life? Really? As Cullen put it, “By far the best way to deal with trolls is to deny them the attention that they seek.” And my way of dealing with trolls, as I mentioned-- I'd have probably just thanked the other for their thoughts and let it go. I guess that’s the point-- don’t rise to the bait; let it go. Dlohcierekim (talk) 01:47, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• Personally, I am inclined to say that there is no further need for action at this moment in time. Mjolnir already received a sanction for the immediately relevant conduct. I suppose we could enter a "no sexually violent language" statement into a formal close, but that almost seems to be suggesting that such a prohibition is particular to MP, while such statements are in reality always inappropriate for this project and should be met with immediate community action--so it seems rather redundant. Besides which, the previous ANI already included a statement in the close that MP is warned that any kind of violent language is inappropriate on this project and likely to result in a block the next time he used it. Although I think Cullen may have been unaware of that prior discussion, that is exactly what occurred here and so the community's resolution on that matter has been satisfied. Had the circumstances here been even just a little more different, I may very well have supported an proposal for a longer-term block. And make no mistake, I am very concerned about MP's
  WP:IDHT
  -heavy response to the block on his talk page and worry it won't be too long before we have to undertake another discussion, especially considering that MP landed here at ANI again very shortly after his previous (self-requested) block following the previous ANI.

But under the circumstances (ballsy provocation by a

WP:ROPE here but that such indulgence is almost expended and that further demonstrations of an inability to not escalate personal disputes will be met with further blocks which are to increase in duration from here--particularly where they involve violent or threatening language. Mjolnir does indeed need to accept once and for all that this is a work environment and that nobody should be subject to such language whether it is said as the result of an effort at intimidation or a loss of temper. But again, for the present situation and conduct, I think Cullen already established the community response and that matters should be dropped here in the hope that this will be the end of this behaviour. Given the attention this pattern has received thus far, I suspect the next occurrence, if any, will result in a lengthier block, which would be appropriate. Snow ^{let's rap} 02:49, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

@Snow Rise: I think that would work right there. I think @MjolnirPants: needs some specific guidance to avoid . . . problems. Dlohcierekim (talk) 02:55, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• Something I'd like to see addressed, that was brought up in an earlier ANI report, is MjolnirPants' habit of removing his opponents' talk page posts. The earlier report included a warning about this behavior from Ritchie333 [20] [21] along with three more examples of talk page removals from shortly after the warning. [22] [23] [24] Here are two current examples from a few days ago. [25] [26] The comments that he removed may have been clueless, but none of them clearly violated talk page guidelines, so these removing these other editors' posts is
  WP:OWNERSHIP behavior. 2601:42:800:A9DB:C9FC:9DE6:44A6:6E5A (talk) 03:09, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

  WP:OWNTALK. Nihlus 03:11, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

  That is absolutely a non issue. Dlohcierekim (talk) 03:13, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Did you look at the diffs? The posts that he removed weren't in his user talk, they were posts on article talk pages. 2601:42:800:A9DB:C9FC:9DE6:44A6:6E5A (talk) 03:16, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

I don't see anything really wrong with those removals.

WP:NOTFORUM applies as well. Nihlus 03:22, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

WP:TPG allows for the removal of another editor's comments under only very particular and narrow circumstances, none of which are satisfied in these examples, as far as I can tell. MP definitely needs to cease that habit immediately. It's a somewhat separate issue from the one we were previously discussing here and I really hope to not have a subthread develop concerning it here, but it would be cause for a separate ANI complaint at the least if it continues; editors are not allowed to sanitize talk pages of comments they don't like unless they are disruptive with no editorial value, and other than maybe this one, that test does not apply to any of the examples the IP listed. Snow ^{let's rap} 04:08, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Snow Rise, I disagree on your personal interpretation of the policy and how it applies here as the policy is ambiguous in many areas. While it would be in MjolnirPants' best interest to err on the side of caution, I see nothing here that shows it is a clear violation of policy. Nonetheless, I'm not really invested enough in this to discuss it further than I already have. Nihlus 04:27, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

The relevant policy language is at

WP:TPO, which outlines the very small handful of situations in which removing another editor's comments are allowed, none of which were at play in the diffs the IP provided. Again, I think it would be just as well if we can avoid opening that can of worms here, in this discussion, but to the extent you're insisting again that these removals are not a problem, I have to point out that they are in fact against policy, and not just "in my interpretation" or that of anyone else who has commented as to this habit; take a look for yourself and then tell me which exception to the otherwise outright prohibition you think applies if you really want to insist MP was free and clear to remove in the context of those diffs. Otherwise, I suggest we just drop it for the sake of keeping this discussion as focused as we may under the circumstances. Snow ^{let's rap} 04:39, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• As mentioned above by me and Swarm above, we've repeatedly seen Pants pulling down other editors using inarguably abusive language. We've asked Pants in the past to come clean and stop behaving like this, but he has repeatedly continued this. I would propose the current block be made an indef block till Pants gives an unequivocal statement that he will stop using double entendres and abusive language, broadly construed. Lourdes 03:21, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

  A ban on double entendres coming from someone who uses the phrase "Pants pulling down" in the same contribution? I don't think so. --Hob Gadling (talk) 08:58, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• I would suggest an extremely broad topic ban on sexually violent imagery in discussion, with known heavy sanctions for breaking it. I don't think this includes the word "fuck" or variations of it, but, you know, rape imagery is bad, mmmkay.--Jorm (talk) 03:32, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

  Adding absolute TBAN on removing other people's talk page comments, regardless of any possible reason to do so. This user sounds over wrought. May need a rest. Dlohcierekim (talk) 04:16, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• Yep, the problem appears to be, quite simply, a straightforward lack of regard for
  the fourth pillar. "Civility sanctions" are silly, because they're redundant to existing policy. The most obvious solution is to extend the block to indefinite and unblock as soon as the user makes a commitment to changing their attitude. If we don't, the block will expire, and we'll just be back here down the line again. ~Swarm~ {talk} 04:31, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

  Egad! has anyone seen the edit notice on his talk page. That needs to go too, though it seems to be yet another attitude adjustment requirement issue indicator. Dlohcierekim (talk) 05:22, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• (Non-administrator comment) Looking at the lede of his user page, he unapologetically
  WP:DGAF, admits to being uncivil, and we can pound sand if we don't like it. All of that is consistent with his actions. I see no reason to believe that, even if offered, a promise to change his attitude or actions would be sincere, let alone be something which he would actually fulfill. I don't want to have to run into this guy on a dark article or talk page somewhere, and neither should anyone else (especially newbies). We have a right to expect civil, collegial discourse. The obscenity that spews forth from this user's mind simply has no place here. "Society has a right to protect itself." —[AlanM1(talk)]— 08:08, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
• I thought he already has a "never be uncivil" restriction in place? (Note I have been (and am currently) in dispute with this user on a regular basis, and have been on the receiving end more then once of his attitude problems). As such I am sure about supporting an indef (I am hardly neutral). I support the idea of a ban on removing other users talk page posts (he can always ask someone one if they are genuinely a problem. Maybe the answer is to make it "no offensive or abusive language, be polite and respectful AT ALL times", thought I suspect he will find a way to wikilawyer around even that.Slatersteven (talk) 08:35, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
• It's not "anger", it's typing words on a keyboard. If MP was actually angry he wouldn't be composing perfectly-spelled and coherent screeds of fucks and dildos. What it is is showing off. It betrays an absence of understanding (or, worse, caring) that the Wikipedia username you're directing this stuff at in order to show how Internet Bad Ass you are is another human being. My concern is that just a few months ago, MP pledged to change his ways, agreeing to "treat fellow editors with respect", and just four months later - most of which he was on a self-imposed break! - we're right back where we were with him. The next infraction must result in a lengthy, lengthy block. It's not acceptable to speak to other people like this in a collaborative environment, whether you agree with them or not, whether you are upset or not; there's no justification. None. Had I been the blocking admin it would have been a far longer block than Cullen imposed. Fish+Karate 09:24, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• • It's not "anger" .... That's mind-reading. No one but MPants knows his state of mind/emotions when doing something. It is however something that is controllable. Anyone who writes coherent content for an encyclopedia is by definition capable of communicating in clear, neutral, impersonal terms. This can even be done when communicating with trolls or other exasperating people. It may take practice and even some form(s) of behavior-modification like stepping away from the keyboard when needed, but it is something that's required on Wikipedia, and something MPants had promised to change. Softlavender (talk) 09:42, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
    • I stand by my view that it's showing off, not anger. The benevolently chortling it off as "oh dear, look what MPants has said now, sometimes he says the things I wish I could say, what a rascal! Please don't do it again let's go back to editing with no further actions" attitude some editors and admins show to this sort of behaviour exacerbates this acting to the gallery and encourages further pushing of the envelope. Fish+Karate 11:39, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
• I suggest that all the problems comes under the heading of
  WP:BATTLEGROUND
  . MJP repeatedly takes a confrontational, personalised approach to disagreements, and often sets out to "prove" that his "opponents" are mad+bad. He has a systemic unwillingness to consider that there may be more than one way of looking at things, or that he himself may be mistake.

If he'd drop the battleground approach and commit himself to collaboration, then the specific behavioural issues would follow.

Conversely, if he retains his the battleground approach, then lists of unacceptable conduct are merely going to displace the problem. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:31, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

"take practice and even some form(s) of behavior-modification"-- Yes. Yes it does. If I can do it, anyone can Dlohcierekim (talk) 13:14, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• A number of comments above appear to be referencing my close of a previous discussion as a warning against incivility. I want to be very clear that it was not, it was a pledge by MjolnirPants to be more respectful of editors with differing viewpoints, and in the same discussion I somewhat endorsed aggressive treatment of overt racists. The only warning I wrote in that discussion was this: "this ("pray to whatever deity you worship that we never meet in person") is a direct threat of violence, and I don't care about context or emotion or whatever else, or whether or not you think you intended it to be read this way, if I see you write something like this again I will block you, and it will be for a good long time." I've already commented that I don't think this incident is a "direct threat of violence" though it certainly describes a violent act. I agree that we shouldn't need to warn editors not to respond to confrontation with descriptions of violent sexual acts, and at the same time I agree that we should do so in this case since MjolnirPants doesn't seem able to draw that line for themselves. However, I oppose any restriction against using the word "fuck", and I oppose any restriction that is generally worded as to prevent MjolnirPants ridiculing overt racists in ways that do not describe violence. (Racism itself is violence, but there is no need to respond in kind.) Frankly if racists don't edit Wikipedia because they fear abuse from editors like MjolnirPants, that's a good thing. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 14:27, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

If MJP was reserving his abusiveness for racists, then you might have a point. But he isn't.

And in any case, there are plenty of ways of dealing with racists without being abusive. There's no need for other editors to reduce themselves to that level, unless they share MJP's battleground approach. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 15:09, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

• Let's wait and see if the problem persists after the obvious
  WP:NOTHERE trolls are removed from the equation. Guy (Help!) 15:22, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

It has almost as soon as his block ended [[27]], what possible justification is there for this?Slatersteven (talk) 16:10, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

I am not happy about BrownHairedGirl dropping a 60 hour block on MPants immediately after his previous block expired. While some people support a block above, there is nothing like a consensus for it, and unless anyone has got any good objections, I plan to unblock sometime this afternoon. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:31, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Well, if the point is to drive him away, an immediate re-block would seem quite effective. If the point is to temper his language, I hardly think a re-block would be the optimal path. O3000 (talk) 12:36, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Per the comments on his talk, I have lifted the block per

WP:ROPE. Let's see if the sweary personal attack stuff stops; if not a reblock will be in order. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:39, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

And people wonder why MJP uses foul language. Hope he takes the message to heart. It should be coming through loud and clear. Again. First time blocked. If he learns, we are done. He escalates, the blocks escalate. Dlohcierekim (talk) 13:12, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

So far there have been two messy ANI threads with fighting over who gets to close them, different interpretations with no real solution and one WP:CENT-advertised civility RfC with no clear result. To be completely open, I'm thinking there might be enough failed dispute resolution for an Arbitration request at this point. The only reason I did not file RFAR yet is because Cullen328 issued the 31 hrs block so there actually was some kind of an action. But with the unblock request and new block being issued and unturned, it seems to be unconclusive again with no clear indication what would happen next if the F bombs continue. --Pudeo (talk) 13:36, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

You are stirring a quiet pot. O3000 (talk) 13:39, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

@

WP:civil makes note of that. And I'm sure we can count on you to provoke MJP whenever you can. potted beef? Dlohcierekim (talk) 13:42, 21 February 2019 (UTC)