Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive59
Username blocks
Following
- If non-Latin-character usernames aren't allowed, shouldn't the software disallow creating them in the first place? --83.253.36.136 11:34, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, I have been wondering about that bit for quite a long time. — Nearly Headless Nick {L} 11:04, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Nobody should EVER be using that 'user...' blocking reason - I'm curious as to why it's so common. Is it in some semi-automated tool, or standard talk among some antivandal people? Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 11:25, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- No it isn't. Standard message is more like "{{ 14:02, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- Nobody should EVER be using that 'user...' blocking reason - I'm curious as to why it's so common. Is it in some semi-automated tool, or standard talk among some antivandal people? Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 11:25, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- Other Wikipedias do allow the creation of non-Latin usernames, so it's not a particularly sought-after feature, I guess. My concern is all the non-Latin usernames that will be created by people migrating via m:Single User Login when it's introduced - will they be blocked, forcing them to choose a name different from their cross-wiki login? - Tangotango 13:04, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah, I have been wondering about that bit for quite a long time. — Nearly Headless Nick {L} 11:04, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Allegation of Vandalism
Elalan had placed a warning template on my talk page for what he says is vandalism. I assume he was referring to my edits of the page Mahinda Rajapaksa. The whole thing started when Elalan had added a whole section with the introduction
- As President of the Sri Lankan government and Defence minister, Mahinda Rajapakse has been held responsible for a significant deterioration of human rights in Sri Lanka.
Although the individual events had citations, the fact that Mahinda Rajapaksa had been held responsible was not cited, and I don't believe anyone has held him directly responsible. Therefore I moved the entire text to the talk page[1] and said
- As per Wikipedia policy I'm moving them to the talk page until required sources are given. Do not reinstate them unless Reliable Sourcesare given.
Elalan readded the text without any discussion[2], and therefore I removed them again[3] with the edit summery
- rv - discuss before readding text
Following this Elalan again readded the text (with no discussion) and placed the {{test2a}} warning on my talk page. At the same time he placed a civility warning on my page for I assume my previous discussion with DRK, which was a misunderstanding, following which I apologised to him for taking my edit summery the wrong way.[4] I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask for help from an admin on this matter, but it's the best place I found, and I didn't want to remove the templates myself. So, can anyone help? --snowolfD4( talk / @ ) 02:44, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- To put it bluntly, admins can block people and delete pages. It doesn't sound like the situation is ready for that yet (hopefully, not ever). There are a variety of processes at Thatcher13103:06, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
I didn't mean block him. That's why I said I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask for help. I mean the warning templates. I don't believe I did anything wrong so I don't think they should be on my talk page. What can be done about them? --snowolfD4( talk / @ ) 03:20, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- I do want to note that it looks like Elalan has already been warned about NPOV earlier (archived) but hopefully will use the talk page from now on. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 04:34, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for going through the article Ricky81682, its a lot better now. But I can remove the warning templates, Right? Cos they wern't valid in the first place. --snowolfD4( talk / @ ) 15:32, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- There is dispute in the community about whether people should be allowed to remove warnings in general, but everyone seems to agree that 'invalid warnings' can be removed. Though whether something is 'valid' or not is often subjective. In any case, please go ahead... IMO if you don't want them on your talk page you shouldn't have to keep them there. Your talk page exists for people to communicate with you, not to permanently house embarassing / annoying accusations that any user feels like making. --CBD 10:57, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
OK Thanks CBD I'm removing the tags. But the fact is they were posted by Elalan cos he didn't want me to remove his uncited/POV edits. So I'm pretty sure anyone who goes through that incident will agree the tags were unsubstantiated. But anyway, Thanks. --snowolfD4( talk / @ ) 18:38, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Manufacturing blanking
It took over a day for an anon to revert a page blanking. Given the number of admins and tools at our disposal I find that pretty disappointing. - RoyBoy 800 16:57, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- Why is it the responsibility of admins to revert vandalism? Any editor can do it. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:24, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Per nomination, I think this is criteria for a speedy delete? Not completely sure, if not could someone please explain on my talk page? Thanks! Stubbleboy 19:43, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- I'd say it is, both per its earlier AFD (G4) and per the expanded A7. >Radiant< 16:12, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Template guru needed
Hi - if anyone knows the template magic to create a link to the Talk page of the editor substing a template (so as to create a working "my talk" link which can be used in talk page templates) can they please let me know. This has been suggested as an enhancement to the {{nn-userfy}} template, and I'd hope to add it to some other bite-minimising templates. Guy 09:18, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Can't be done unfortunately. There is no 'magic word' or 'wiki markup' for <CURRENT USER>. I doubt they'd add one because it could have page caching implications and would definitely allow situations where pages displayed different content depending on the person viewing them. The closest currently available is the standard sig markup, '~~~'... which usually contains a link to the user and/or talk page. Having the sig markup inside 'includeonly' tags (i.e. <includeonly>~~~</includeonly>) would then cause it to 'autosign' when substituted, but generally isn't done because people would likely type, '{{subst:templatename}} --~~~~', and wind up with two signatures. --CBD 11:34, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- For completeness - You could create a talk link if you included a parameter for the username, (i.e. {{subst:templatename|user=CBDunkerson}}), but the person subst'ing the template would have to type in their username each time. Presumably not what you were looking for. --CBD 11:41, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- It would be possible to implement something like this in MediaWiki:monobook.js, but these would only work for Monobook users and so wouldn't be suitable for use in templates, unless they were coded to just not link if the 'magic word' didn't replace (which is possible, but might leave residual code behind); it's probably just not worth it. --ais523 13:55, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- There is a rather simple workaround for this: just link to Special:Mytalk, which automatically redirects to the appropriate page. There is also as Special:Mypage, and both can have subpages appended to them. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 22:34, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Is this like bugzilla:6553?. It's proposed, but I have the feeling it will not be implemented any time soon. Tizio, Caio, Sempronio 12:19, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- Simple solution is to have a "username" parameter. A more whizzbang solution probably isn't available right now alas. --kingboyk 13:08, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Tagging images as "no source"
I'd appreciate some other folks chiming in at Wikipedia talk:Image use policy#Do screenshots need additional source information?. -- Rick Block (talk) 12:16, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Will the block (even on his Talk Page!) on Sussexman remain now that the contentious article (Gregory Lauder-Frost) has been deleted? It seems most unfair as he has worked on quite a number of good articles, not all of them political. Having looked at the reasons for his block it states that he personally sent a solicitor's letter to someone else on Wikipedia. Is that actually true? Is there positive proof that he was even involved? Is this an unfair witch-hunt? This is one of many issues from what I can see which are not being dealt with in a decent manner. 86.129.82.48 14:13, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Let me see now: legal threats, tendentious editing, trolling, personal attacks. Not looking too good at this point. Can you show evidence that Sussexman is capable of working productively with people who hold strongly different opinions on something that matters to him? Guy 15:01, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- The above IP is very passionate indeed about this block of an extremely tendentious editor, and repeats the same tired old defence of legal threats while claiming that Sussexman didn't make any. However, my opinion is that unless there is some very strong indication that he's somehow changed enough to make a remotely positive contribution to this project, no. Copy and paste that to the other three venues if you like. Also to the dartboard at the Monday Club if it makes them feel better, this is all under GFDL after all (please remember that proper attribution must be attached to the bullseye and a link to the GFDL at the treble 17). --Sam Blanning(talk) 17:49, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- As a related issue, I've recently been hassled by an anonymous editor (I would guess either Sussexman or someone related to the Lauder-Frost circle) regarding things posted by other people outside of Wikipedia (see [5]). I gave him short shrift, naturally [6]. It seems there is an ongoing off-Wiki feud involving Sussexman, GLF and a number of other people - I would suggest keep them all blocked and well away from here. -- ChrisO 18:21, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- User:Chelsea Tory is probably the a sock of both the anon that posted this and Sussexman. Could someone more familiar with this check that out? pschemp | talk 22:52, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Well, as a life-long Tory and now ardent supporter of U-kipper. From a technical standpoint though, I would suggest requests for checkuser. The contribution pattern is telling but not sufficient, IMO. --Sam Blanning(talk)01:53, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- Well, as a life-long Tory and now ardent supporter of
- User:Chelsea Tory is probably the a sock of both the anon that posted this and Sussexman. Could someone more familiar with this check that out? pschemp | talk 22:52, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- As a related issue, I've recently been hassled by an anonymous editor (I would guess either Sussexman or someone related to the Lauder-Frost circle) regarding things posted by other people outside of Wikipedia (see [5]). I gave him short shrift, naturally [6]. It seems there is an ongoing off-Wiki feud involving Sussexman, GLF and a number of other people - I would suggest keep them all blocked and well away from here. -- ChrisO 18:21, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- The above IP is very passionate indeed about this block of an extremely tendentious editor, and repeats the same tired old defence of legal threats while claiming that Sussexman didn't make any. However, my opinion is that unless there is some very strong indication that he's somehow changed enough to make a remotely positive contribution to this project, no. Copy and paste that to the other three venues if you like. Also to the dartboard at the Monday Club if it makes them feel better, this is all under GFDL after all (please remember that proper attribution must be attached to the bullseye and a link to the GFDL at the treble 17). --Sam Blanning(talk) 17:49, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Freestylefrappe
Freestylefrappe has been caught using sockpuppets again in violation of his arbitration case
- Again? As for the indef blocks, I think FSF/Y6 was already community-banned, though of course, any single admin can unblock him to cancel the community ban. I, for one, will not. --Deathphoenix ʕ 19:15, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
As far as I am concerned Ya ya ya ya has been banned by the community. Don't you find it slightly weird to suggest unbanning one of his accounts in response to massive sockpuppetry? The ArbCom can help us deal with problem users. But we are free to deal with them on our own, too, and if their remedies aren't strict enough and the person keeps on misbehaving, we are free to impose tougher penalties without having to go back to the ArbCom again. And given this character's consistent problems over months now, I don't think there's anyone who can sanely argue that this community ban is unjust. --Cyde Weys 21:38, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I proposed the community ban last time, if I remember correctly; I still support it. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:41, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
He was already community banned; there is a noticeboard thread about it somewhere too. There is no reason to unban any of his accounts, I had enough trouble dealing with his IPs revert warring and harassing editors. —Centrx→talk • 22:03, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive136#Proposing community impatience ban for Freestylefrappe, started September 17, 2006. —Centrx→talk • 22:08, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- What was missing from the Arb case is a log of blocks and bans (which I have since added) so I had no way to immediately determine why Ya ya was blocked right after apparently being chosen as his "official" account, and the block summary did not reference a community ban. I see that Centrx has posted the archive link and reblocked indef per the archived discussion; I support this. Thanks for the input. Thatcher13102:37, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- What was missing from the Arb case is a log of blocks and bans (which I have since added) so I had no way to immediately determine why Ya ya was blocked right after apparently being chosen as his "official" account, and the block summary did not reference a community ban. I see that Centrx has posted the archive link and reblocked indef per the archived discussion; I support this. Thanks for the input.
Webspamming campaign - King Tractor Press/Shawn Granger
I'm not sure how notable or encyclopedic the King Tractor Press is, but I've had it on my watchlist for a while because it contained an outgoing link to nn-webcomic freehost
- Not any more it isn't. --kingboyk 19:01, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
If there's anybody here who knows about comics, would they please check this for notability? User:Tvoice is the self-confessed owner of King Tractor Press (Granger, presumably), and it looks rather like a walled garden to me. That's not to say there isn't notability; I know nothing of this genre. --kingboyk 19:09, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- It's not a walled garden, because there are links to these pages from highly visible articles such as n19:25, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- It's not a walled garden, because there are links to these pages from highly visible articles such as
Hello. I am a user from the Greek Wikipedia. I noticed that when typing "Βικιπαίδεια" (the name of the Greek version of Wikipedia) in Google, the following result appears on top: User:Βικιπαίδεια είναι κομουνισμός (Greek for User:Wikipedia is communism). I am requesting the immediate or in-a-short-time deletion of this page and its talk page (4th result in Google). It is obvious that this high ranking is a result of Googlebombing. This way Wikipedia is connected with a certain POV, which is against its basic policy. And also prevents certain groups of users to contribute to the project. I think also that this user page should have been deleted a long time ago (the user who created it was blocked on 14 October 2005, and the standard period for retainment of the temporary user pages is 1 month). --Dead3y3 Talk page 01:28, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- I've deleted it. We don't need year-old userpages for blocked sockpuppets anyway. --Mr. Lefty (talk) 01:46, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Deletion review of Arch Coal...
I've requested a deletion review of Arch Coal. Thought it would be a good idea to post a note here... oh, this is one of MyWikiBiz's articles deleted by Jimbo. Outside opinions would be appreciated. ---J.S (t|c) 05:32, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- Interesting (not meant ironically) discussion happening there, with important implications for our future growth. I seconf J.S's encouragement for outside voices. Martinp17:06, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Could someone please close this afd? The article should have been speedy deleted G4. Stubbleboy 12:11, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- Done. Duja 14:19, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Unable to load Button_array.png in the edit page
Button_array.png. Is it just me or is that universal? coz it is causing delays in loading the page and it makes the page look little odd. --WinHunter (talk) 17:55, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- If that's the make table button it wasn't visible in AWB (IE) for me earlier, so I turned image display off. Is visible in Firefox for me now. That particular URL you provided isn't loading at the moment... --kingboyk 18:55, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Fair use stamps: revisitied ...
About 2 months ago, I raised the issue of a huge number of stamps being used in biography articles, where there is no mentioned of the stamp, or only a small sentence saying that "this govt has issued a stamp on the subject" or something equally brief.
An example can be found here, for the article Bhagat_Puran_Singh. Here, the article mentions only mentions "Indian Government issued postal stamp in honor of Bhagat Puran Singh in 2004.", and this sentence is being used to justify the "Fair use" of the stamp image.
According to
- stamp images in this category should not be used solely as a cheap way to illustrate articles. In addition to the problem that images are often altered for artistic reasons and thus may not be factually accurate representations of their subject, Wikipedia:Fair use criteria does not allow for it.
- In some cases, the issuance of a stamp is itself notable, and the stamp may be allowable in the article (for instance, if the issuance of the stamp was an overtly political act, with the design chosen for political purposes). For these images, the image description page must describe this as part of its fair use rationale, and the article(s) using the stamp must do so also.
So, my question is, is providing a single sentence like "the govt of x issued a stamp on Y on year z" sufficient justification of including a fair use stamp image in a biography article? This type of usage has again become prevalent since the last cleanup 2 or 3 months ago. I'm waiting for some more comments from other admins to go on and remove these again. The last time I raised the question here at ANB, most of the people opined that there needs to be more coverage of the stamp rather these "one sentence description"s to justify inclusion of the stamp under fair use. Thanks. --Ragib 20:19, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
You understand things correctly. Stamps are not good portraits, and should only be used when there is commentary on the stamp itself. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 20:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- However, if the image is indeed in the public domain, as one editor of that article has asserted, the image page needs to be retagged and you can use the image for whatever you like, as long as it benefits the article. Using free images for decoration, as long as it's in encyclopedic style, is fine. Cat has a dozen images, since free images of cats are readily available. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 20:30, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- Actually, the assertion made by that editor that Indian postage stamps are in PD, is incorrect. In fact, the copyright for such material lasts 60 years, so anything post-1946, as all of these Indian stamps are, still are under copyright. This is not the case with some other countries, in which case PD tag applies easily. Thanks. --Ragib 21:43, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- Then stay the course, by all means. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:50, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- Actually, the assertion made by that editor that Indian postage stamps are in PD, is incorrect. In fact, the copyright for such material lasts 60 years, so anything post-1946, as all of these Indian stamps are, still are under copyright. This is not the case with some other countries, in which case PD tag applies easily. Thanks. --Ragib 21:43, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- To be more precise, I've checked out the conditions for reproduction of Indian postage stamps [7], which state:
- Re-production of stamps is allowed for illustration purposes in Philatelic Publication or in an article relating wholly on postage stamps which may appear in any magazine, newspaper or publication of a general character. Such reproduction should however, be only in black. If stamps are to be produced in colour for publicity purposes, prior permission of the Director General of Posts must be obtained. To avoid similarity with the postage , such reproduction must be distinctively in smaller or larger sizes than the actual stamp and must be without perforation on the edges. Further, across bar will also be placed on one- corner of the stamp, obliterating the denomination. It must be noted that reproduction of the stamp in colour of the actual size of the stamp with perforation of the edges may be deemed to be taken as production of the actual stamp
- So, this strict requirement disallows all Indian stamps unless it is not used in a philatelic article, even in that case, it should be converted to black and white. --Ragib 21:53, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- This talks of disallowing it in a "publication". It does not cover "online" as wikipedia is not a "publication". An owner of a stamp collection is not barred from displaying his stamps or it's photo's either. And if the same effort could be put in to find out how to get an image onto the article I think it would benefit wikipedia much more. Haphar 08:42, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- It's the above sort of innocent but maddening misunderstanding about the nature of 'publication' that makes copyright problems so difficult to resolve on Wikipedia. For the record, putting something on a publicly accessible website – including ours – is most definitely publication. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:37, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Conversely, I'd like to point out that often (though not always) the issuance of a stamp is a significant event. For example, it may be possible to incorporate (sourced) commentary on which of several possible aspects of a person a stamp chose to focus on, etc. When possible, this simultaneously enhances the article and justifies fair use of the stamp. - Jmabel | Talk 00:22, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
I contest to the deletion (under
- that deletion seems quite right. no need to undo it. Hwang Seong Gyeong 20:53, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- Already undeleted by ЯEDVERS20:56, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- Already undeleted by
- I restored it, had a look... Done a bit of sniffing around and then speedy deleted it under WP:WEBfor starters. What little there is there can be userfied if you want?
- I've not problem if another admin disagrees but i think it's fairly cleancut. Thanks/wangi 20:57, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- I restored it, had a look... Done a bit of sniffing around and then speedy deleted it under
- A bit process-bound and making-a-pointy to undelete a PROD in order to speedy delete, if you don't mind me saying so :o) Although looking at it in the 50 seconds or so it was undeleted, it seemed to fail {{ЯEDVERS21:03, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- A bit process-bound and making-a-pointy to undelete a PROD in order to speedy delete, if you don't mind me saying so :o) Although looking at it in the 50 seconds or so it was undeleted, it seemed to fail {{
- Restoring and then speedy deleting does mean the article has to be reviewed before being undeleted again, rather than just being restored immediately on request as articles deleted via PROD are. To me it seems closer to, after accidentally pressing 'enter' and leaving an empty deletion log entry, undeleting and redeleting an article in order to leave a better summary (which I've done a few times), than going through two processes for their own sake. --Sam Blanning(talk) 00:27, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- Yeah ;) I did undelete it in good faith... but then when it was so un-notable... Next time round I'll preview the deleted page first! It's the normal case of something that's in the beta stage, and certainly if it does stick around, is successful and meets WP:WEB then there's no reason we shouldn't have an article in the future. Thanks/wangi21:11, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- Well, if the original objector is still objecting, the way forward now is WP:DRV. It's probably just a delay rather than a win, though. I hope that the objector will remember that the presence of an article doesn't make something good, and the absence of an article doesn't make it bad. Geogre01:43, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- Ok, everyone's raised valid points. This was, until recently, in the Alexa top 10k and Technorati has recorded 4231 mentions of BlogMad [8], which IMO isn't non-notable (but maybe not certain notability). However, I do not believe it is A7. Nevermind. Computerjoe's talk 17:10, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- When did 03:46, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- This, originally, did not need to go to DRV as I was asking a PROD deleted article to be restored, which can be done with no discussion. Computerjoe's talk 07:47, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Unsuitable username
User:Say "BYE, BYE, HARD DRIVE" By CLICKing HERE!. Speaks for itself. --Alex (Talk) 21:14, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- Already blocked. Naconkantari22:47, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Request third-party Administrators to look into issue
Hi all. Recently, two users,
I am copying here the comments made on my talk page to bring the issue to my attention (here
<start quote>
Redux, if you would please advise editor Lesfer to refrain from personal attacks, specifically (Don't be such a cry baby, kid. Grow up.), and here (really, how old are you? 10?). Thank you. NetK 04:01, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- Hi there, Redux. Please, check articles Nuklon and Hyperion (comics) recent edits. Then check my talk page, Netkinetic's and CrystalB4's. You'll see I I've done nothing wrong and I've got nothing to hide. Unfortunately this user has a personal grudge against me. Sorry for the headache. Regards. —Lesfer (t/c/@)04:09, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- Greetings Redux. As to the articles in question, there is a semantic difference in how Lesfer and myself view the categories as they are assigned to specific individuals with two aliases. It is not myself but Lesfer who appears to have "a personal grudge against me" (please see the aforementioned personal attacks and incivility), however unlike my esteemed fellow editor I wish to WP:AGF on his behalf and hope you can instruct him that such terms as "kid" here in North America are viewed in a condescending manner. Thank you for your time. NetK04:17, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- Greetings Redux. As to the articles in question, there is a semantic difference in how Lesfer and myself view the categories as they are assigned to specific individuals with two aliases. It is not myself but Lesfer who appears to have "a personal grudge against me" (please see the aforementioned personal attacks and incivility), however unlike my esteemed fellow editor I wish to
<end quote>
I am willing to provide any opinion that may be helpful in resolving the situation, but I cannot, given my history with both users, render a decision on it. Thank you, Redux 00:53, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- Without getting into much of the detail, I would suggest that all editors avoid, by all means, reflecting on each others' persons, especially when it is not the person that is irritating. Remember: all we are is words. If one editor's edits bother you, talk about the edits, not the editor. Similarly, if someone says something about you, instead of your edits, remember that he or she doesn't know you, has never met you, can't judge you. You cannot be hurt by someone whose sum knowledge of you is a few words on a single website somewhere. Both "you're an idiot" and "you should be banned for calling me an idiot" are leading you toward greater conflict and less happiness. You both have goals here. State your goals. Read the other person's goals. Don't refute, don't point out the error: state the positive, the hope, the desire.
- If it's too difficult to let the insults pass, then we have the mediation cabal who will try to help out. Geogre 01:40, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- Geogre, your words speak to the heart of the matter. Alas instead of focusing on edits, Lesfer persists in using derrogatory terminology directed specifically towards myself. How would WP:CIV apply, or should they not be considered at this point? Lesfer communicates to various editors (not solely myself) in such a condescending tone which completely undermines the entire process we are attempting to achieve here at Wikipedia. I would suggest that since he fails to act in a civilized manner that he simply avoid directing comments towards myself and I will do the same. If not, then yes a mediation cabal may be the only alternative towards reigning this editor's persistent violations of the above cardinal guidelines of Wikipedia which have been established as essential guiding principals. NetK12:32, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- Geogre, your words speak to the heart of the matter. Alas instead of focusing on edits, Lesfer persists in using derrogatory terminology directed specifically towards myself. How would
Requesting a close on this week-old AFD with a clear consensus to delete. NeoChaosX [talk | contribs] 01:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- Closed. Naconkantari03:09, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
In need of assistance
I am in need of assistance with a problem I seem to be having with the user User:MONGO, an administrator. I attempted to engage him in a dialog about his protection of his talk page, an act I believe to be irresponsible consider he has been blocking anonymous IP's, leaving them no way to contact him. He is of course entitled to disagree with him, and were he to argue his point to me, he might even sway me to his opinion.
This does not however entitle him to insult me, break
- My email is always on. The only IP's I block are those that are vandalizing. Blocked IP's can always email any admin to request they be unblocked. You have less than 50 edits( 06:10, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- I showed up on your talk page in relation to some NPOV edits I saw go up, and your actions in banning a user (who I agree deserved banning). The fact that I have not edited recently does not excuse you to be rude, uncivil, and violate policy by threatening other users. Your actions are uncalled for. I've not edited for a week because I am still learning the system. I feel it is important for me to read the edits of others and to learn the craft before I begin editing myself. So far my edits have been related to clean up, as I don't feel qualified for much else.
- I am qualified however to discuss with you what I think is an ethical conundrum as a matter of academic interest. If you did not wish to speak with me on the subject, the correct response would have been "I'm sorry but I disagree", not to violate WP:AFG, and to attack me. That sort of behavior is never appropriate.
- I am qualified however to discuss with you what I think is an ethical conundrum as a matter of academic interest. If you did not wish to speak with me on the subject, the correct response would have been "I'm sorry but I disagree", not to violate
- Perhaps if you spent some time reading Wikipedia policy, as I have this past week, you would realize this. As an administrator I would think you would be open to discussion from other users. Part of your job is to be a steward of the community, a job you cannot fulfill through rudeness and incivility. Urek06:14, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- Perhaps if you spent some time reading Wikipedia policy, as I have this past week, you would realize this. As an administrator I would think you would be open to discussion from other users. Part of your job is to be a steward of the community, a job you cannot fulfill through rudeness and incivility.
- I ask that these two ignore each other for a while. No one wants a widening gyre of insults. Go do something else, it will be looked into. I'll take your mutual silence to be consent. - brenneman {L} 06:26, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- Thank you for looking into this, I would request as a courtesy a follow up discussion. I would also appreciate mediation between MONGO and myself. Urek06:29, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- Games: You have not even 50 edits. You went a week and made no edits. You suddenly appear on my talk page and question why my talk page is semi-protected? You then start questioning why an IP has their talk page protected after I blocked them for 31 hours...(the IP talk page was protected by a different admin.) [9] and the IP was adding NPOV tags all over the place, like to this noticeboard [10], [11], yet you I was abusing a newbie[12]? "Newbies" don't go around slapping NPOV tags on articles and noticeboards. Thanks for wasting our time. G'night.--MONGO 06:29, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- Thank you for looking into this, I would request as a courtesy a follow up discussion. I would also appreciate mediation between MONGO and myself.
You two take hints like my cat. Stop talking, both of you! regardless of who is correct and to what degree, nothing you can either now say will make a difference. It's on this noticeboard to get wider input so be quiet and let that happen. - brenneman {L} 06:32, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- There is no wider imput needed...learn when you're being trolled if you are to be expected to become an effective admin. Don't ever tell me on this or any other board to stop talking again.--MONGO 06:38, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- Alright, Mongo has forced me to this with his repeated breach of Urek06:40, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- Wow! So few edits, yet you link to those pages like a champ...wow!--MONGO 06:43, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- Alright, Mongo has forced me to this with his repeated breach of
- Yes, as I have said, I've spent the last week diligently reading Wikipedia policy and editing guidelines. I believe it is something expected of all new users. One week later and I have barely scratched the surface. I don't plan on truly beginning to edit until I am done perusing the entire policy database. Urek06:45, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, as I have said, I've spent the last week diligently reading Wikipedia policy and editing guidelines. I believe it is something expected of all new users. One week later and I have barely scratched the surface. I don't plan on truly beginning to edit until I am done perusing the entire policy database.
- Alright, I will respect your suggestion and retire to my reading. Urek06:36, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Regardless of the merits of this particular case, protecting user talk pages, especially those of admins, should be the last resort. You (and other people) can always revert vandalism, but nobody but an admin can leave you a message without revealing their email address if the page is protected. Zocky | picture popups 12:48, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- Ah, yes, there has been lots of trolling on my talk page...hence the protection and it was a last resort. It was even re-semiprotected from Urek by Tom Harrison last evening.--MONGO 13:33, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- The only one acting like a troll here is you MONGO, with your continued rudeness and insults. Your page was not protected from me, I left it alone as soon as I came here and have not been back. Urek14:42, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- The only one acting like a troll here is you MONGO, with your continued rudeness and insults. Your page was not protected from me, I left it alone as soon as I came here and have not been back.
Troll blocked, as usual. Nothing to see here, move along now. Guy 15:36, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- Zocky, User:NSLE used to frequently protect his user talk page. Anomo18:42, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
Urek blocked an unblocked
I've unblocked this user. Urek did not comment on MONGO's talk once asked, and had been quite specifically told that while it wasn't a good idea to comment here, he could. Urek was using my talk page in a positive manner, and made only one edit to this page following that. That comment was ill-advised, and he was blocked. As this user was perhaps not aware of MONGO's recent history, the phrase MONGO used, "lots of trolling," could have been seen as an escalation of hostilities. - brenneman {L} 04:16, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- Fair enough. Guy 09:17, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
AFD's from September 30 have not all been closed
Hey, what happened to the
--Richard 16:34, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
- I've added a link to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/old is not, and needs to be edited manually. --Deathphoenix ʕ17:19, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
HQCentral
Please handle with care if you are pursuing this; he writes some great stuff, and the last thing we would want to do is to actually drive him away. - Jmabel | Talk 00:19, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
article masquarading as an image description
The image description for Image:Codrin.jpg appears to be attempting to be an article, presumably about the person it depicts. Its not easy to read, but I suspect that if it were posted as an article it would be prodable if not speediable, so I am reluctant to copy and paste it to the main namespace. This isn't a case for IfD as the image (if a source is provided) is fine - any suggestions? MfD? Thryduulf 02:25, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- Presumably autobiographical: suggest userfy. And if that's not acceptable... well, image descriptions are just as subject to editing as any other content. - Jmabel | Talk 02:58, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Proven proxies have been literally waiting for over a month to be blocked.
There are open proxies that have been listed as proven open proxies by non-administrators at Wikipedia:WikiProject on open proxies#Waiting, but these have yet to be blocked. Please block them. Jesse Viviano 05:43, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
title wrong
On the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobili_Lamborghini the page is protected, and the title in the box has been changed to "you suck".
- It's not protected. This didn't really require admin intervention, but it's fixed now. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 07:08, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Name change
Fys, formerly Dbiv who signed as David, wishes to announce his change of username. Fys. Ta fys aym. 10:00, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- Congratulations. What's a Fys by the way? The Land 10:10, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
User pushing original research into articles
Hi, can anyone help with this problem:Talk page problems regarding original research and the entropy page. Thanks: --Sadi Carnot 14:25, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- I don't see an issue at the page you link to, or with entropy talk page it refers to. There it appears you're locked in a simple content dispute, and as it says above, " these pages are not the place to bring disputes over content..." FeloniousMonk 14:51, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Probation
I have replaced the incomplete list of users on probation with a complete one. Would appreciate a check that no-one has been omitted. Fys. Ta fys aym. 16:47, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Need deleted revision of an image
Apparently,
- Done. pschemp | talk 21:06, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- Thank you. I've replaced the copy at commons; now the one here is no longer needed. —fgs21:14, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- And it's gone again :) /wangi 22:02, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- Thank you. I've replaced the copy at commons; now the one here is no longer needed. —
An IP has broken article's history for Canzo (official Italian name), by creating a new page Canz (local name in lombard dialect).
The same thing was done on French Wikipedia, with fr:Canzo (see history) and fr:Canz (see history and [14]). This was changed by reverting the changes, deleting page Canz (against GFDL license, cause of copy-paste without any explanation), then creating a redirect in Canz and protecting it.
See also: fr:Wikipédia:Requête aux administrateurs#Canzo.
Could any sysop do something to restore and protect article's history for Canzo? Thanks. Hégésippe | ±Θ± 23:31, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
- Reverted Canzo to pre-redirect state, changed Canz to a redirect to Canzo (The article states that the Canzo is the italian, and therefore more common, name). Thanks. ~Kylu (u|t) 01:40, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Whoa!
Massive spam of user creation log. Vandals? Fredil Yupigo What has Wikipedia become? 02:30, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- What spam would that be? We usually recieve 10 or so new accouts/minute. Naconkantari02:32, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- 22:20, October 7, 2006 Xxbutterflyxxkissesxx (Talk | contribs) (New user account)
- 22:34, October 7, 2006 Ninjå (Talk | contribs) (New user account)
- 22:28, October 7, 2006 Walrus.ispaul (Talk | contribs) (New user account) etc. Just to name a few. Fredil Yupigo What has Wikipedia become? 02:36, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- I don't see anything wrong with those... Sasquatch t|c 02:44, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- Unless my understanding of WP:USERNAME is grossly off, there's nothing wrong with those names... Alphachimp02:50, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- Except for this one. Regards, Ben Aveling 02:51, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- Blocked... hours ago. Check the block log. Alphachimp 02:52, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry, should have checked. Regards, Ben Aveling 02:53, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- Blocked... hours ago. Check the block log. Alphachimp 02:52, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- Except for this one. Regards, Ben Aveling 02:51, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- Unless my understanding of
- I don't see anything wrong with those... Sasquatch t|c 02:44, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Restoring page history
Hello. The edit history of the
- Done. —Xezbeth 06:54, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! --thunderboltz(Deepu) 06:59, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Persistent sockpuppeteer strikes again
User:Licinius appears to have struck again at Football (at least), as User:60.225.219.127 and User:Rufusthedog. He has used no less than least 37 puppets in the past, all of which have been blocked (see: Community ban for Licinius). Would it be possible to get some action on this? Thanks. Grant65 | Talk 13:20, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Janet Jackson site
There is vandalisim on the janet Jackson site in the form of defamatory content.
- Diffs? Nothing much going on there today, for sure. Guy20:42, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
A user writes...
Usman Farooq (talk · contribs) was indef-blocked by Samir due to a personal attack made by another account and signed "Usman"; this is, apparently, a common name. Usman Farooq emailed me as follows:
... I don't think that anyone can justify his action of a permanent block on such weak evidance and on the basis of one comment. I was recently active on "1965 indo pak war" presenting Pakistani views. In a very civil way, I might add. And *bam* out of no where comes a permanent block. I am very conscious of the fact that the admin who permanetly blocked me has Hindi(Indian) characters in his name.
The user has been patient and civil, and will not take this to RfC; as far as I'm concerned it's a simple and honest mistake but I thought it might be prudent to let some others think about it as well. Samir is content with my unblocking the account based on the thread on my Talk [15] (see User:Usman Farooq at the bottom). I have no reason to suspect this is
This was tagged for a speedy delete as a copy of Stapleton International Airport on the 18 August 2006. I haven't deleted it yet because I was curious as to why it does not appear in Category:Candidates for speedy deletion. The category is listed at the bottom. Anybody any idea? CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 21:09, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- It worked when I took it out of the other categorys and then put it back. Probably some sort of "bug". —Centrx→talk • 21:17, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- Something to do with the category being transcluded and it would need at least a null-edit to make it visible. But there is some new mechanism in place which should achieve that automatically. Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) would be the place to get the excact answer. Agathoclea 21:27, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Request for a look at a non-admin closing controversial AfDs
Hi, I'd appreciate it if an admin has a look over the closure of a couple of controversial AfDs by a non-admin (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/P-P-P-Powerbook (4th nomination), Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Deborah Frisch (2nd nomination)); my understanding of the non-admin deletion process is that this is inappropriate. See also discussion at User talk:Parsssseltongue and User talk:Ziggurat. Cheers, Ziggurat 23:42, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- I fully support you examining these AfDs. But I would like to say, I stand by my actions. There is serious need for AfD reform. Common sense goes right out the window on these things sometimes. They need to be closed sooner, and articles shouldn't be open for AfD nomination more than once every six months. PT (s-s-s-s) 23:49, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- I support Ziggurat's call for a review of these afds. Please also see my exchanges with Parsssseltongue on the talk pages. I believe Parsssseltongue is abusing WP:POINT and is disrupting the afd process in order to impose his/her own ideas about policy.23:52, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
I feel that he/she also let me believe he/she was an admin, when he/she isn't.Bwithh- Another user has persuaded me that I may well be mistaken about the last point, and I retract it. I stand by the others. Bwithh 01:05, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- His actions on the Aaron23:57, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- My understanding of AfDs is that it's entirely possible for the first AfD to be closed otherwise (see my comments on PT's talk page), but I'd still appreciate an admin look at the issue. I'm not so concerned with the second example. Ziggurat 00:04, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- What does it mean to "have WP:IAR and close these afds as delete with the explanation that my actions are for the greater good of wikipedia and that future afd nominations would have eventually voted for delete anyway? Bwithh01:15, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- The P-p-p-powerbook afd is controversial, and not at all necessarily a no consensus close. It's not a vote, and the admin is supposed to judiciously weight the arguments according to policy and guidelines. I've seen against-the-grain admin closures in favour of keep or delete in the past that have survived deletion review. It's not that rare. But that kind of judgement responsibility for controversial should be left to admins, who are public servants and representatives of Wikipedia. Bwithh 01:00, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Oh, I'll have no quarrel with however any admin decides to handle the Aaron00:43, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Reopen the first, leave the second. If necessary, get an admin to speedy close the second. --tjstrf23:54, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- Just to clear up a few things. As a non-admin, I close non-ambigious keeps on a regualr basis. This is what is spelled out in the above policy. Non-admins are not allowed to close any controversial AFD's (therefore including no consensus), but only unambiguous keep/redirect/merges. Parsssseltongue (Bryant00:33, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- You said I (need) to stop closing AFD's... immediately. Or what? Risk being bored by more pointless AfDs? I don't need to do anything except help make Wikipedia a better place.PT (s-s-s-s) 00:51, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Well of course vigilantism is more exciting than due process. It's also destabilizing and less fair Bwithh 01:02, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- In all honesty, I've been seriously considering opening some sort of policy discussion regarding the possibility of increasing the amount of latitude given to nonadmins closing discussions when the consensus is something other than delete (where there's no point in a nonadmin closing the AfD since they can't carry out the deletion). There's just too many things up for deletion at any given time, not enough admins, and not enough editors willing to go through the often unnecessarily unpleasant RfA process. (Any such proposal would be rational, of course, with non-admins needing to show a certain amount of experience in the Wikipedia namespace and AfD in particular, no block log a mile long, etc. Like I said, it's just something I've been mulling over in my head.) --Aaron00:40, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Whether the status quo is maintained or not, I believe non-admins need to spell out that they are not administrators in closing afds, and refrain from making opinionated statements during closures. Bwithh 01:00, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- You said I (need) to stop closing AFD's... immediately. Or what? Risk being bored by more pointless AfDs? I don't need to do anything except help make Wikipedia a better place.PT (s-s-s-s) 00:51, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Just to clear up a few things. As a non-admin, I close non-ambigious keeps on a regualr basis. This is what is spelled out in the above policy. Non-admins are not allowed to close any controversial AFD's (therefore including no consensus), but only unambiguous keep/redirect/merges. Parsssseltongue (
Two different threads here: the closes themselves and who did them. Close: I've reviewed the close of "powerbook" and deleted the article. Articles must have sources, reliable sources. This did not. Closer: I feel parsssseltongue was fine to close the discussion except he had taken part in it. I'd give non-admin a wide mandate in closing and a "no consensus" here was not a huge mistake, and many new admins would have made the same error. I can't say the same for the second: I'd suggest he not be closing anything early, as this was wrong all around. - brenneman {L} 01:18, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Nitpick: I think it would have been more appropriate for you to have just killed P-P-P-Whatever and made a note as to why in the deletion log (and here), instead of adding content to the closed deletion discussion. Once closed, I think most people consider them truly closed, and you risk confusion by stuffing comments in there later on. --Aaron01:23, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Comment that is much more than a nitpick: I hadn't noticed that Parsssseltongue was a participant in the P-Ppppfhgfgt AfD. Given that, he probably shouldn't have closed it; even admins aren't supposed to do that. In some cases that fact alone would have given anyone more than enough reason to reopen it without blinking an eye. --Aaron01:28, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Indeed. I was working on creating a Deletion Review submission based on that fact alone, yet now it is not needed. That's taboo for everyone, to close an AFD you were involved in. The deletion procedure states that "non-admins in good standing with the community can close non-ambiguous keep/close/redirects". We need to make two decisions here: a) is a "no concensus" close ambiguous and b) do certain editors fall into this category. Bryant01:32, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- This is becoming ridiculous. When an admin has to revert your close, that says a lot. Bryant01:37, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- That was an honest mistake, something got fouled up between that AfD and the one for Cork. Again, I stand by everything I did, but appreciate the new, civil input by other editors and admins acting in good faith (but not you, Bryant). PT (s-s-s-s) 01:45, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Referring to someone by their last name only is derogatory, and uncivil. A couple of your AfD closes are going to WP:DRV sometime today. Interesting to see what the community makes of them. Bryant01:48, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Lighten up. I thought Bryant was your username. Don't hold a wiki-grudge. PT (s-s-s-s) 19:46, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- I see an arbcom case on this one in the not-too-distant future. Oooh, the wikidrama. -- talk • contribs) 03:13, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- I, for one, won't be taking it there. I'm sure the collective at WP:DRV will see the light. Bryant03:32, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- I, for one, won't be taking it there. I'm sure the collective at WP:DRV will see the light.
- Referring to someone by their last name only is derogatory, and uncivil. A couple of your AfD closes are going to WP:DRV sometime today. Interesting to see what the community makes of them.
- That was an honest mistake, something got fouled up between that AfD and the one for Cork. Again, I stand by everything I did, but appreciate the new, civil input by other editors and admins acting in good faith (but not you, Bryant). PT (s-s-s-s) 01:45, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- This is becoming ridiculous. When an admin has to revert your close, that says a lot.
- Indeed. I was working on creating a Deletion Review submission based on that fact alone, yet now it is not needed. That's taboo for everyone, to close an AFD you were involved in. The deletion procedure states that "non-admins in good standing with the community can close non-ambiguous keep/close/redirects". We need to make two decisions here: a) is a "no concensus" close ambiguous and b) do certain editors fall into this category.
- I think the rule about non-admins only closing uncontroversial AfDs should be followed - and this is partly why. The only possible objection to that rule is "if a non-admin obviously has the judgement necessary to close a controversial AfD, why shouldn't he?" - and the answer to that is "if he has that judgement, then he should WP:IARis not sufficient here - our processes are not infallible but they do have good reasons behind them, and to ignore them requires much better reasons.
- I also have to object to Aaron's claim that "there was no way [the Powerbook AfD] was ever going to be closed as anything other than "no consensus" - "no consensus" means "AfD failed", and in my opinion, that's what we should all say in closing AfDs instead, as people seem to think of "no consensus" as the equivalent of a 5-4 victory on penalties in football, whereas in reality it's closer to match abandonment due to not enough players turning up (in the case of AfDs, not enough convincing arguments or participants to call it a keep or a delete). "AfD failed" would make the meaning clearer, and discourage admins from using it as a cop-out. This one clearly isn't an obvious "no consensus" except as a cop-out, as Brenneman's closing shows - it remains to be seen whether deletion review will endorse it, but even if it doesn't it won't be unanimous and it won't be 'obvious'. (Someone please translate my metaphor into an American sport so the majority of editors can understand it. A field goal in the 9th inning when the Knicks are 110-109 up, or something.)--Sam Blanning(talk) 11:05, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- You got it just right, Sam! Thatcher13117:14, 4 October 2006 (UTC)And deciding a nil-nil game on PKs is one reason footy just doesn't translate well here.
- You got it just right, Sam!
- "...if he has that judgement, then he should request adminship, because he will get it". Really? If I self-nominated myself at RfA right now and said, honestly, "I want the admin bit so I can be a more useful participant in AfDs," I'd pass? I think that I'd have my butt handed to me with a result somewhere along the lines of 4/96/12. Also, your sports analogy is crazy; there's no way the Knicks would ever be ahead in any given game! --Aaron21:18, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- "...if he has that judgement, then he should request adminship, because he will get it". Really? If I self-nominated myself at RfA right now and said, honestly, "I want the admin bit so I can be a more useful participant in AfDs," I'd pass? I think that I'd have my butt handed to me with a result somewhere along the lines of 4/96/12. Also, your sports analogy is crazy; there's no way the Knicks would ever be ahead in any given game! --
- Is it just me or does Parsssseltongue look awfully like our old friend User:Monicasdude? Check the contribs and dates of activity: Monicasdude (talk · contribs), Parsssseltongue (talk · contribs). Definitely looks a bit suspicious to me. For one editor known (and banned, per Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Monicasdude) for controversial edits to AfDs to vanish and another to appear at the same time does rather invite suspicion, doesn't it? Guy 12:07, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Just noting, too old to checkuser. Thatcher13113:51, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- They appear to have rather different musical tastes; I see Monicasdude working on older artists, like Bob Dylan, et al, while PT has a thing for more recent stuff, spending a lot of AFD time that I've seen debating the merits of independent artists with regards to 15:43, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Just noting, too old to checkuser.
- Is it just me or does Parsssseltongue look awfully like our old friend User:Monicasdude? Check the contribs and dates of activity: Monicasdude (talk · contribs), Parsssseltongue (talk · contribs). Definitely looks a bit suspicious to me. For one editor known (and banned, per Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Monicasdude) for controversial edits to AfDs to vanish and another to appear at the same time does rather invite suspicion, doesn't it? Guy 12:07, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
My opinion: Parsssseltongue is doing helpful work. I would encourage him to stay away from controversial closings: don't close anything as "no consensus" because those are the types of debates that need careful reading of policy and might go either way. Especially don't close any debates you participate in, that's a no-no for everyone. Also, it's okay to close as speedy keep if it's obvious and uncontroversial, but you shouldn't be the first to propose that idea (that is, there should actually be some speedy keep votes in the list). Take your closing for Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stress (band). Sure, the nominator was new and didn't say much along the lines of policy... and the article might well be kept. But that article has serious problems if you look at it -- it's unsourced and has big-time POV issues, and should have had a debate (but I don't personally care enough to renominate it). Mangojuicetalk 13:49, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- It may be a good idea to advise a one or two day waiting period before a non-admin closes even a non-controversial AfD assuming talk • contribs) 16:15, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Good point. And while we're at it: there's an educational value to keeping the debate open long enough so that the nominator sees that the community doesn't agree with them. Clear bad-faith noms aside, that is. Mangojuicetalk 17:36, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Why don't we say that non-admins can only close AfD debates under Bryant00:33, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- Just to let you know, I'm taking this page off my watchlist since there are other issues being discussed on here now, so if anyone would like to come shake their finger in my face more, you have my talk page to vent on. But it doesn't change the fact that I'm glad this all happened, now maybe AfDs will start being run more efficiently. PT (s-s-s-s) 18:10, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- Why don't we say that non-admins can only close AfD debates under
- Good point. And while we're at it: there's an educational value to keeping the debate open long enough so that the nominator sees that the community doesn't agree with them. Clear bad-faith noms aside, that is. Mangojuicetalk 17:36, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Why don't we just wrap Wikipedia up in so many Rules To Prevent That Stupid Thing Joe Did Three Years Ago that nobody can get anything done? --Carnildo 18:48, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- Four days would be too long when the lag time for articles is five days. I've proposed the change on the talk • contribs) 20:48, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
- I just want to express my agreement with WP:IAR but I feel this is in bad faith as my nomination for deletion is based on more academic standards. FInally, my renomination was within the standards listed at Wikipedia:Deletion_policy#Renominations_and_recurring_candidates Green hornet02:59, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Well, why not wait? How much different did you expect the debate to go after just a couple of days? - Lex 03:20, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- I just want to express my agreement with
Clear falsification of a source
- The article states that Fidesz "emerged as the core of integrated right conservative nationalist forces"; "the FIDESZ partly incorporated the Antall cult of inter-war nostalgia and what the HDF stood for in their time and reawakened Hungarian nationalism in a somewhat extreme form which eventually backfired in 2002", "The FIDESZ-CP also drifted progressively to more radical nationalist policies rebuilding past images and symbolism, tapping successfully the nationalist feelings". I have recently added two other sources. So, there are now three articles published in the leading English-speaking academic journals. Anyone can check them. The are all very explicit: Fidesz is a nationalist party and it is not an insult. It is just a correct description by political scientists. Tankred 00:46, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
One source is clearly falsificated. I'm checking the other two, I'll come back tomorrow with the results. On the other hand: in Hungary no one considers them nationalists. Not even the political opponents if it. That is
- I still do not understand what you mean by "One source is clearly falsificated". Have you seen the quotations from that article? They are very explicit. Anyone can verify that they are part of the article. Just read it. To sum up, there are references to three articles written by three different scholars (two of them being Hungarians) and published in two refereed academic journals. I do not understand 195.56.242.11's accusation. Tankred 02:20, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Guys, dispute resolution is over there → Guy13:40, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Guys,
Need to close AfD discussion
This discussion at AfD has been open for 11 days and needs someone to close it. I would do it myself if I wasn't involved. Andrew Levine 15:48, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- It's just been closed by another admin, I was about to close it as well (with same result). Petros47116:08, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Now that is an article whose deletion unquestionably improves the project. Guy 21:30, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
www33.brinkster.com links
User 69.118.97.26 is contributing (spamming?) relevant links to various pages. I've looked at the links and they seem appropriate, but perhaps it might qualify as OR? - RoyBoy 800 15:45, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- The links look helpful and relevant, going to have to WP:AGF here. I don't see a problem really.--Andeh16:22, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- The entire site is called "Black Invention Myths" From [17]: "Perhaps you've heard the claims: Were it not for the genius and energy of African-American inventors, we might find ourselves in a world without traffic lights, peanut butter, blood banks, light bulb filaments, and a vast number of other things we now take for granted but could hardly imagine life without.". This doesn't feel right at all. -- Netsnipe ► 18:21, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- I had (have) some concerns about this as well, but the Calendar of Inventive Contributors to the Development of Refrigeration, 1748-1885 looked useful enough that I added it to Refrigeration. The point of the site seems to be, 'You may have heard that an African-American invented X; In fact X was invented by white person Y." Objectively, that should be no different than saying it the other way, "White person Y is typically credited with inventing X, but the real basis for X was this invention by an African-American..." Most of us probably would not object to linking to a site promoting the second point of view, unless we suspected the claims were agenda-driven. At the same time, many of us might be uncomfortable linking to this site for the same reason. And does it matter? Either "Daniel Livingston Holden of the United States took out U.S. Patent No. 95,347," or he did not. I'm open to argument. Tom Harrison Talk 20:15, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- Well, it depends on the reputation the site has. If it is known to be "problematic" (like spong.com, theinquirer.net, etc) we can remove it. However, if its reputation is fairly neutral, we can keep it. There are less than 200 links for *.brinkster.com, so I can review them all later and clean the ones that are not useful. I finished with the forums.cjb.net and are currently cleaning up *.invisionfree.com (679 out of 850 when I began), so the review may take a while. -- ReyBrujo 20:26, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- I had (have) some concerns about this as well, but the Calendar of Inventive Contributors to the Development of Refrigeration, 1748-1885 looked useful enough that I added it to Refrigeration. The point of the site seems to be, 'You may have heard that an African-American invented X; In fact X was invented by white person Y." Objectively, that should be no different than saying it the other way, "White person Y is typically credited with inventing X, but the real basis for X was this invention by an African-American..." Most of us probably would not object to linking to a site promoting the second point of view, unless we suspected the claims were agenda-driven. At the same time, many of us might be uncomfortable linking to this site for the same reason. And does it matter? Either "Daniel Livingston Holden of the United States took out U.S. Patent No. 95,347," or he did not. I'm open to argument. Tom Harrison Talk 20:15, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
I posted those links because I wanted to debunk falsehoods associated with the invention of certain things. There are many people who believe in those falsehoods, and know of nothing else that disproves it. That site has everything necessary to debunk those falsehoods. Some of you may worry about the motives, or the intent, of the webmaster, but, judging from the evidence presented at that site, the actual diagrams of the inventions, the references from other web sites, actual US patents, and books, and so on, everything from that site checks out, and is therefore credible. And yes, it was frustrating having to repair the links that were removed just recently. 69.118.97.26 22:55, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Deathrocker - User under arbitration who keeps on using ad hominem arguments
In the
- WP:3RR has been blanking large sections of work on the article Encyclopaedia Metallum. [18]including 7 sources and four paragraphs.
- I have told him before that Deathrocker15:07, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- How exactly this has anything to do with the ad hominem arguments that you have been using since the beginning of the discussion, almost three weeks ago?
- As for my edits, I have only reverted the article to an edit which you had already agreed on.Evenfiel 15:16, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Evenfiel (
- Deathrocker seems to be in a personal crusade against me, repeatedly calling me a vandal and a kid. According to the following link, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_pages "Most users treat their user talk pages like regular talk pages, and archive the contents periodically to a personal subpage — either when the page gets too large, on a regular schedule, or when they take a wikivacation. Others delete comments after they have responded to them.". He has already reverted my own talk page a few times.Evenfiel 15:29, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
You have vandalised articles by
- I'm not on my main computer so this will be brief. If necessary I will return later. First, I don't really care if someone removes warnings without archiving them. There is a conflict between user talk page policy and the vandalism policy about this, which itself resulted in a recent edit war. My comment is in this history, and the edit summary is blocked which is hard to miss. Any other admin dealing with user complaints should check the history and block log, where the block is documented. (Archiving is nice and preferred by the commmunity, but I see little point in forcing such issues in most cases.) So Deathrocker should knock off the talk page fetishism. On ad hominem, I see your point but I don't think its actionable at the moment. Deathrocker should definitely explain his edits with reference to sources, not to his age and personal experience or other editors' youth and inexperience. So knock it off, ok? Finally, if he violates his revert parole again (1 per day, 2 per week), post it to Thatcher13115:49, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- (After edit conflict) to save Deathrocker posting the inevitable "I was reverting vandalism" defense, if a 1RR complaint is made at Arb enforcement, I will give you chance to offer an explanation, and I will check with other admins if things are unclear. Thatcher13115:53, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- (After edit conflict) to save Deathrocker posting the inevitable "I was reverting vandalism" defense, if a 1RR complaint is made at Arb enforcement, I will give you chance to offer an explanation, and I will check with other admins if things are unclear.
Thanks a lot,
- "Deathrocker should definitely explain his edits with reference to sources",
I do.. and have done, using sources such as
I try to make sure, not to violate any revert policies, and outside of it only remove edits which fall under
- I'm not entirely sure that what he's doing can be considered "blanking." There are some questions about the relevance of the information under debate to the article itself, from the looks of the discussion. As Evenfiel points out, it *does* give quite a bit of the article over to what's essentially a debate over whether Led Zeppelin is a heavy metal band. Having said that, can I suggest an article 17:11, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- Attention moderators and adminstrators: I request you email address so I can email you more proof of lying, dishonest editing, ad hominem editing and personal attacks from deathrocker. He has now made it his mission to remove any proof I have against him from this article, and thus I must send you the evidence clandestinely. He can remove what I posted below now and I won't care, I'll just send it to you, but just a notice: I WILL NOT ALLOW HIM TO REMOVE THIS ENTRY I AM MAKING that pertains to email addresses. It is necessary for the encyclopedic nature of this website that I email you his editing policy and comments, and thus it is necessary that this stay here. I encourage anyone that sees deathrocker vandalize this entry to correct it.Ours18 21:52, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
I now have definitive proof that deathrocker is interested purely in ad hominems and personal attacks, as well as dishonest editing http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=78938048 As you can see here, everything I posted is honest accusations against him, and had every right to be on this very talk page. However, deathrocker reverted it, claiming I was spamming and that it was not relevant to the page. This is a LIE. I repeat----A LIE. It had every right to be there. He is now clearly not interested in honesty at all. This is not a personal attack, it is a sourced accusation. I am putting it back up here. If he removes it again without a valid reason, I am going to email an admin about it to prevent him suppressing any proof that makes him look bad. I would like to have
See the Encyclopaedia Metallum talkpage for more details.Deathrocker is so incredibly biased against anything having to do with extreme metal that it compromises all his edits and talk page commentary, and he also dislikes Encyclopaedia Metallum, thus making it unfair that he should be able to edit the page. Whenever someone tries to propose that he be banned (in order to let other users new to the article know he is trolling/biased/editing in bad faith), he deletes and claims it is a personal attack, like he did here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Encyclopaedia_Metallum&diff=prev&oldid=78931646
“Encyclopaedia Metallum exclude the band entirely from their database because they are uneducated on the history of heavy metal music...”, “of cookie monster music fans...”, “apposed to the aims of certain extreme metal kids that seem to be drawn to the website of the article's subject and editing this article itself... who can't be bothered to educate themselves, by taking the time to read about what the subject in question; right here--->
Here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Encyclopaedia_Metallum&diff=77212490&oldid=77204940 he claims he was removing an incoherent sentence, when he was doing nothing of the sort.
Here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Encyclopaedia_Metallum&diff=prev&oldid=77289284 he claims his decision was validated by general consensus, which if you read the talk page back then http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Encyclopaedia_Metallum&oldid=77296804 you can tell is a blatant lie: two/three (him, a lone anon ip and vegataman) vs evenfiel, dace, Reaper, Danteinferno, inhumer, Noktorn, and at least one anon IP address; I didn’t give IP’s much attention for simplicity’s sake. That’s six-to-seven against two-to-three. Casebook example of dishonesty to promote your own agenda; given that the content he changed dealt with whether or not the band included all forms of metal, I can either say one of two things: he either really, really hates the site and wishes to slander its creators in any way possible, or he is so incredibly biased against extreme metal and it's fans (who he constantly, constantly, constantly refers to as "kids" as if there aren't adults who listen to extreme metal, or as if he is above all extreme metal fans in existence) that he simply won't let any article show neutrality towards them.
I can't make this any clearer to the administrators of Wikipedia: STOP HIM FROM FURTHER EDITING ARTICLES. If you want more instances of dishonest editing on his part, I can quote them, I have a few more (and he gives me more material to work with everyday, thanks man :) ); if you want direct links, I can search them out sometime later this week (I have a lot more important things to do at the moment than try to get a dishonest idiot banned from a website). But if these instances, combined with past transgressions are not enough to have him removed....Christ, would you look at all of that? Editing in bad faith, personal attacks, biased assumptions....if that isn't enough to get him banned, you have no idea how bad it is going to make your website look. The metal community at large already has a distaste for Wikipedia because of biased editing and misinformed editing. I beg you: don't make it any worse.Ours18 20:58, 1 October 2006 (UTC) Now, if there is a better place to put this, I would like the administrator present to go to my talk page and ask for my email address. I will then give it to you, and you can email me where I should put it: DO NOT SAY IT IN ANY PUBLIC DOMAIN. I have every reason to believe that if you do so, deathrocker will watch that page and edit out any accusations against him. He MUST NOT be allowed to have his way on here any longer. This is an emergency now, he WILL remove any incriminating evidence against him.Ours18 21:46, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
All of user:Ours18's claims are unfounded. Feel free to visit my edits, and talkpage here.[25]
The quotes which Ours18 is pulling up out of nowhere from discussion pages are entirely out of context, and twisted to suit the grudge against me that he has, because he added uncited bias to the
Non of the quotes fall under "
This user has frequently leveled personal attacks at me claiming that I am "trolling",(for evidence of this attack, see his message on this very board) when I have been editing the site for around a year and my edits to articles have no trace of "trolling".
He has also spammed article talkpages with this personal attack message, and doesn't understand that talkpages are for discussing the article only. I have sent Ours18 a message regarding this. [27] he proceded to level another personal attack at me branding myself a "liar" without evidence.
I have also removed another of Ours18's edits where he attacked a musical movement in an article, dismissing at as the derogatory insult "
- As I explained, mallcore is not an entirely derogatory term, which is why I used it (I never use it as an insult). In the future, I will remember not to use it anywhere except it's own article. Furthermore, if you want to accuse me of including unsourced information on the mallcore page, then fine. However, the entire article is unsourced, and my claim is correct. I see the term mallcore used as a genuine term FAR more than an insulting term for numetal and metalcore, so you can just shut up with the nonsense about me being dishonest, okay?
- I stopped accusing you of vandalism once I read the article and realized how this site defines it; I haven't done it since and won't do it unless you actually are doing it.
- None of the quotes are out of context: they all pertain to your reasons for editing the article: Encyclopaedia Metallum or a related musical article, and they all show why you should not be editing said articles: because you are incredibly biased against extreme metal and EM. This is not an accusation---this is proven. Or at least it was proven, until you removed it from this page with little to no justification for doing so.
- Similarly, I did not twist any of the quotes---they are direct quotations. If you don't like it, vow not to say them again, as YOU were the one that said them. As I said, I will provide the links to the admins if they agive me their/his/her emails address(es)---you have proven yourself untrustworthy with regards to keeping proof on a talk page SPECIFICALLY DEDICATED to this very subject. Therefore, I will no longer post proof here, as you will just edit it out anyway, like you did earlier.
- And as I already said, it is NOT a personal attack, it is a well-founded and sourced accusation. That does not qualify as a personal attack. My accusations of trolling are also sourced, as I cannot believe you edited those articles with any other intention than to incite a reaction.
- You are the only user on this site I have come even close to attacking, and the only time I have definitely posted with the intention of insulting was on my very own talk page where you did the exact same thing. I'm fucking tired of your condescending attitude you use towards me EVERYWHERE, including my talk page. I am not a KID. I am not an EXTREME METAL KID either, regardless of how much you want to believe that. Such terminology is clearly intended to insult, as is the condescending attitude. If you don't want me acting like I'm better than you, than fucking stop doing it on my talk page. Okay?
- Any further accusations will not be posted here, as I already explained. I will email them when I recieve email addresses, and they will be sourced. I apologize if that caused a problem earlier, but I thought the other sourced evidence (as well as his past trangressions) would be enough to show that he is not acting in any good faith whatsoever.
- And about that as it pertains to me....well, I am acting in good faith. You have had a grudge against me the whole time you've noticed me, so don't pull that crap with me. I edited the article on mallcore from the standpoint of myself and most others I have met, both online and in the real world, bot extreme metal fans and fans of the traditional metal bands. The term is NOT always meant to insult. Since the entire article has no sources and is already fairly accurate, I figured one more piece of entirely accurate information without a source wouldn't matter. Unfortunately, deathrocker had to insert his own POV "all extreme metal fans are idiots who just hate numetal" (note: not an actual quote), which he did by omitting a perfectly true claim. His revert is obviously aimed to make the whole article simply one big "EXTREME METAL FANS ARE TEH GAY!!!," which is currently what the article actually is: there's nothing to counter the (totally unsourced) claim that it is a derogatory term used solely by extreme metal fans. That was why I added it; it made it much more NPOV than it was and currently is.
- Using the term mallcore in another article was a slip-up on my part, as I forgot that this site incorrectly views it as an insult. It won't happen again and hasn't happened since.
- Again, I'm going to ask deathrocker this, and I'm sorry if it is blunt (I'm done doing anything in a formal manner with you until you apologize): stop attacking everyone who disagress with you, stop acting like you are above us, and specifically, stop acting like I'm a god damn kid, because for the last time, I'm NOT. That is insulting, especially when you don't even bother trying to back it up and just do it from the viewpoint that everyone who thinks Led Zep is not metal must be a kid or everyone who uses EM for any reason is a misinformed cretin. Ours18 00:58, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
So now, you've gone from pulling quotes from an issue which has already been looked at... out of context that don't fall under attacks anyway, and twisting them. To absolutely fabricating lies and putting them in quotation marks in an attempt to
I don’t know what your issues are, but you need to sort it out before wasting my time with nonsense you admit is “not actual quotes”, it comes across as extreme desperation.. desperately attempting to condemn me because of your grudge (which I sourced above)..you can’t actually find anything I’ve said that falls under attack.. so you’re openly creating sentences I’ve never actually said now?.. don’t put words in my mouth... in fact your behaviour is rather worrying, I’d appreciate you not addressing me at all. - 14:19, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- Has anybody sockchecked these many people complaining about DeathRocker? I'd be very surprised if some of them didn't turn out to be the banned editor, Leyasu. --Tony Sidaway 18:05, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- I filed it just now. Evenfiel and Ours18 were reasonably protesting some actual violations of Deathrocker's parole, for which I warned and blocked him. I didn't realize it had escalated here. I think there is some element of forum-shopping since I didn't give them what they wanted at Thatcher13119:30, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- I filed it just now. Evenfiel and Ours18 were reasonably protesting some actual violations of Deathrocker's parole, for which I warned and blocked him. I didn't realize it had escalated here. I think there is some element of forum-shopping since I didn't give them what they wanted at
- Tony, I can assure you that nobody here is that banned guy. We only found out that Deathrocker was under parole after the user Tony Fox said so.
- Thatcher, you gave him what I wanted. After your posts, Deathrocker decided to hold his war against the Encyclopaedia Metallum article. Evenfiel 04:07, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
If you people are still interested in coming to some sort of agreement or semi-agreement, I'd be willing to mediate this if you want to file a request to the
Email spam
- Just wondering if anyone else received spam from Odednov (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)?
Dear Andypandy.UK,
We are conducting a study of people's motivations for writing and editing in Wikipedia.
We would be extremely grateful if you could help us by filling out the questionnaire at http://faculty.poly.edu/~onov/wiki1 - it should take no longer than 10 minutes. The questionnaire is anonymous and your responses will be used for research purposes only.
We would be happy to share our findings with you, which will be made available online once we complete the data collection and analysis.
With many thanks!
Dr. Oded Nov, Polytechnic University, New York [email protected]
- I have made a complaint on the users talk page.--Andeh 15:54, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- I got the same thing myself, but I bleieve this was authorized by someone a month ago. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 18:24, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- Got it, but as it's the second such request this year, I'd rather avoid encouraging others to ask for such input when I could be mediating, editing, or reverting. :) (Kylu@Work) 207.145.133.34 19:18, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- *sniff* I feel discriminated, I did not get one :'( -- ReyBrujo 19:26, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
- I got it. I haven't followed the link as I couldn't tell if it was legit or not. --Aaron02:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Issues that don't belong here
The admin noticeboard (as well as /incidents) are rather impractically long despite the frequent archivings. However, part of the cause seems to be people posting stuff here that doesn't really belong here. Do people think it's a good idea if, whenever we see something that belongs on another page, we remove it on sight and place it where it belongs? E.g.
- Issues about AFD closure go to DRV
- Inappropriate usernames go to RFC/username
- Normal user disputes go on RFC
- Checkuser requests go on RFCU
Et cetera. >Radiant< 14:24, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Sounds good, but inappropriate usernames are usually dealt with by blocking. Unless it's a fairly controversial case, I would recommend we remove the notice from the noticeboard, block the offending username, and inform the person who reported it on their talk page. RyanGerbil10(Kick 'em in the dishpan!) 16:15, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Agree. Moving posts appropriately is a good idea -- Samir धर्म 17:11, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
I suggest that you've raised a small part of a bigger problem, exemplified in the Diane Farrell incident above. When process is circumvented, guidelines and community consensus are disregarded, and Wiki business is increasingly conducted on IRC outside of community view, editors may believe the only way to accomplish anything is to post here about the incidents. That's the bigger point I was trying to raise above with the Diane Farrell incident. Wiki has prcoesses which are ignored when Wiki business is conducted on AN and IRC. Maybe I'm wrong about the nature of the problem, but it seems like a slippery slope is increasingly engaged. The Farrell article shoulda/coulda been handled in a way that didn't need to engage AN: there was/is a process in place, that wasn't used. None of those editors, who so desperately wanted her article, would just follow the process and write the election article; so I stayed up last night, learned more about either of those candidates I ever want to know, and wrote it myself. Since the people who wanted the article knew the issues, I don't understand why one of them couldn't just do what I did. There was/is a process, which was ignored in favor of an IRC shortcut. Sandy 17:26, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- hmmmm, that oughta confuse everyone. The Farrell incident is at AN/I, not AN. Sandy 17:30, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Moving debate to the right place is a good idea. IRC is unquestionably not the right place. WikiEN-l sometimes is, since at least that can be read in digest form. As a member of the rouge admin cabal I dislike cabals nd cliques (other than the rouge admin cabal) and IRC has that appearance. Guy21:33, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- I don't really like the "IRC cabal" talk. I'm generally on IRC, and there is no way I would possibly consider joining a cabal. Yes, the people who hang out on IRC are my (gasp) friends, but that is where the "cabalism" ends. — Werdna talk criticism 02:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- I'm starting a Rouge Editor Cabal, however I'm the only person worthy enough to be in it, so don't ask. --Aaron02:22, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- I'm starting a Rouge Editor Cabal, however I'm the only person worthy enough to be in it, so don't ask. --
- I don't really like the "IRC cabal" talk. I'm generally on IRC, and there is no way I would possibly consider joining a cabal. Yes, the people who hang out on IRC are my (gasp) friends, but that is where the "cabalism" ends. — Werdna talk criticism 02:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Moving debate to the right place is a good idea. IRC is unquestionably not the right place. WikiEN-l sometimes is, since at least that can be read in digest form. As a member of the
- A streamlining of the instructions on top of AN and AN/I wouldn't hurt; they're rather slipshod and extremely confusing to newbie editors. --Aaron02:22, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Help needed in the middle of a page move
I am bogged down in the middle of couple of moves and need Admin assistance.
A user gutted the Waldo article and created Waldo (short story). This loses the edit history, though the motivation is good (to avoid unwanted attention by the Where's Waldo crowd). So I undertook to move the pages, but have run into a problem where there is now a redirect that needs to be clobbered (the material has been incorporated).
So this needs to be done:
- Delete the Waldo (short story -- temp) page. (all material has been saved)
- Delete the Waldo (short story) page which is just a redirect now.
- Move the Waldo page to Waldo (short story).
I think I can pick it up from there, because we obviously want to have the proper redirects and disambiguation pages, and leave the Waldo name open for the Where's Waldo crowd to use. I have transferred and saved all the recent edits by Djdedalus (from the other page) to the Waldo page, so the page history is intact and complete and it is ready to move.
Thanks! Hu 00:46, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- I got it. Tagged the pages with {{CAT:CSD... Hbdragon8804:03, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Done. —Centrx→talk • 04:09, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Thank you! Hu 07:20, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
I tried to revert the vanadalism on this page and got a warning for it. I don't know if this bot is malfunctioning or what... Stubbleboy 14:11, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Bots reverted, warnings removed, etc, etc. -- Steel14:18, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Blocking question
Please check the page I deleted here. It is obviously vandalism and an attack/threat page. My question is what is the appropriate sanction against the user that created it, considering the nature of the threat and the fact that some information that might be able to used to identify the target was revealed? It looks like childish vandalism, but I wasn't sure. Thanks for your feedback,
- issue was dealt with and the question was answered nicely on my talk page, but if anyone has different/suplimentary input, let me know. Irongargoyle15:51, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Sphinx says "Carlos is gay"
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search
The Great Sphinx of Giza, with the Pyramid of Khafre in the backgroundFor other uses, see Sphinx (disambiguation). Sphinx is an iconic image of a recumbent lion with the head of a ram, of a falcon or of a person, invented by the Egyptians of the Old Kingdom, but a cultural import in Greek mythology. Carlos is gay
I dont' think it belongs there. being civic thanks.
Myid4wiki 17:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC)herewikiwiki
Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a
204.184.18.230 Vandal - Slang - Hinduism
This IP is vandalising Hinduism with slang. Check today's 1st edit. Is the "morenet" warning genuine? The IP should be blocked.Swadhyayee 16:51, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- This user has made 3 edits in that article: in 2, he changed persons to person; in one, he removed a section. I gave him a test2a template, if he starts again, please drop me a message. NCurse work 17:24, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
copy+paste of three articles
Is this the right place to report cases of copy+paste? User:Rarelibra copied and pasted the content on three different articles in short series of time, [30] and here [31] and [32]. AFAIK copy+paste are an absolute taboo since they de-link the history of an article, what is the correct procedure now in this case with dealing with this user? Any help is welcome, cheers. Gryffindor 15:10, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not an admin, but thanks for pointing out this case of copy-paste moving of text. You are absolutely correct that this should not have happened. My instinct would be to simply revert all these edits back to a version where the edit history of a piece of text is in the edit history of the article where the text resides (rather than in the edit history of a different article). You might need to look closely though to make sure nothing gets lost. And then, if there is an issue of renaming or page moving, find an admin to help merge/move page histories if needed. Carcharoth 17:08, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- The tricky thing is finding out where the text was copied from! Your best bet might be to ask the editor that did this cut-and-paste job. They will also need to be told why they shouldn't have done this. Carcharoth 17:10, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- I think Carcharoth, that you should have a discussion also with myself and Rarelibra. He is trying to set these names straight. If you go back in the archives, this user Gryffindor actually moved a lot of these pages in the past, without any discussions. He did this on Trentino-Alto Adige on 25, October 2005. I would even go as far as accusing this user of abusing the WP system. I'm just warning, be careful who you are supporting in this. The names he has put in place are extremely German POV, definitely to anyone familiar with this region of Italy. my best regards. Taalo 21:06, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- Taalo, this is simply not the way to do things. This is what 21:30, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- I think Carcharoth, that you should have a discussion also with myself and Rarelibra. He is trying to set these names straight. If you go back in the archives, this user Gryffindor actually moved a lot of these pages in the past, without any discussions. He did this on Trentino-Alto Adige on 25, October 2005. I would even go as far as accusing this user of abusing the WP system. I'm just warning, be careful who you are supporting in this. The names he has put in place are extremely German POV, definitely to anyone familiar with this region of Italy. my best regards. Taalo 21:06, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- Dear Asterion, part of the problem is that the user Gryffindor actually moved the pages by his own accord on 25, Oct. 2005. Since then the pages have been cemented into this new name by a few people with a German POV. He often uses the rules (after the fact) of wikipedia to try and maintain his POV. Isn't this abuse?? This has gone as far as switching all the names from Italian-German to German-Italian. Having the Province of Bolzano/Bozen page stuck as South Tyrol. The Province is Bolzano (Bozen). There is no Province of South Tyrol in Italy. I would dearly like to assume good faith, but the thing though, is through this past year, this user (and now an admin!) has done what he has done. From someone who is actually from this region, it has been utterly discusting to see this process. For the life of me, I can't see why a few people are doing this.. and why we can't just come up with names that SHARE this region, as is actually done in the region. Thanks for getting involved though, I really do appreciate that. Taalo 21:37, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- To reply to Taalo, and to clarify the reference to WP:MOVE. But please note that this only applies to moving whole pages. Moving sections of a page is, to say the least, more complicated. Carcharoth23:37, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- It doesn't look like the history is busted. She copied out of Thatcher13100:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- Hm, I wouldn't agree that no harm has been done. Check this out: Talk:Province of Bolzano (Bozen), Talk:South Tyrol. This two talk pages share an article :-) You seem to be uninvolved admin. I propose that we gather 2 more uninvolved admins (I found out about this mess yesterday when Asterion asked me for help) and then set up a task force which will fix the mess with duplicate talk pages and whichever other mess we find, and then we protect the pages from moving until the dispute is solved. Then we start a mediation process, listen to all sides and propose a decision as uninvolved, (hopefuly) unbiased and (hopefuly) respected users. --Dijxtra 15:09, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Sounds like a perfect idea. The first thing to do (as you well said in your talk page) is to sort the mess out, merging histories and talk pages. This does not mean we are choosing any name once and for all at this stage, but consolidating things before trying mediation. Thanks and regards, Asteriontalk 19:34, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Hm, I wouldn't agree that no harm has been done. Check this out: Talk:Province of Bolzano (Bozen), Talk:South Tyrol. This two talk pages share an article :-) You seem to be uninvolved admin. I propose that we gather 2 more uninvolved admins (I found out about this mess yesterday when Asterion asked me for help) and then set up a task force which will fix the mess with duplicate talk pages and whichever other mess we find, and then we protect the pages from moving until the dispute is solved. Then we start a mediation process, listen to all sides and propose a decision as uninvolved, (hopefuly) unbiased and (hopefuly) respected users. --Dijxtra 15:09, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- It doesn't look like the history is busted. She copied out of
- To reply to Taalo, and to clarify the reference to
In my own defense - it seems that we are ignoring the past, which Taalo has been able to point out. This page was moved indiscriminantly by an admin who just so happens to have a lot of connection with some of the articles. Even after all of the evidence has been shown as to a number of sources and references showing the title to be "Trentino-Alto Adige" (for the region) and "Bolzano (Bozen)" (for the province), we still run into flack. The page move has been requested and this is a case of disregarding the so-called 'consensus' to correct the name that is listed with the United Nations and with the Italian government. To allow this naming convention to continue is not only a biased POV but it is not in keeping with the 'fair and just' policies of Wikipedia. Because if I'm not mistaken, care is to be taken as to the proper translation and respect for multilingual areas such as this one - and "South Tyrol" is only a derived English version of the "Sudtirol" German portion - for a province that exists in Italy. The name "Bolzano" is the Italian province name, with "Bozen" being the German version, thus the title "Bolzano (Bozen)" would suffice in keeping with the respect of the rules. Same with the region - "Trentino-Alto Adige" is given the alternate of "Sudtirol" (not "Trentino-South Tyrol"). Thus, I may have been incorrect in the approach, but the overall goal was just and correct. This has been completely ignored in the midst of all of this. I think this is so obvious, yet to ignore it is to ignore the very spirit of why wiki is here.
Also in my defense, as I was doing such moves/changes I did go back and make sure all of the links were corrected and redirected. I have taken quite the personal abuse from various users (admin or not) which I don't appreciate - especially when we were all supposed to have assumed good faith. In making such changes, the good faith was to correct a wrong. Instead, well, here I am on the defensive. Think or judge what you wish, but the situation remains unresolved. We have even had users who live in the province state the correct name ("Bolzano") or the region name ("Trentino-Alto Adige"). Pity. Rarelibra 16:50, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- Your defense holds little weight when several people, including myself, nicely asked you to stop doing cut and paste moves - and even explained why - but you went continued with them anyway. And then became quite uncivil when you were called out on it. Along with deleting messages from your talk page, you've managed to violate at least three basic Wikipedia guidelines just in the space of the last 24 hours - and still you cling to this claim of innocence and pity. —Wknight94 (talk) 17:27, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
- Your input holds little weight, wknight94. Because after you asked, there were not edits - you came in at the tail end issuing out to many threats. There was a lot of action beforehand - and my civility reflects nothing more than the same on your own part. Also, I don't believe I am claiming "innocence and pity" at all - or please point out where I do (in your own biased way). So your use of such words is attacking and offensive as well. Please refrain from using such judgmental words and, instead, approach more cautiously. I would definitely appreciate it. Rarelibra 17:06, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Revisionist history. Here's the real chronolgy:
- My personal first warning at 10/2 20:38. At that time, your talk page looked like this, with 5 or more entire sections of various people instructing you not to do copy/paste moves including one who reported you at WP:AIV(which is how I became involved in the first place).
- After my warning (not to mention the rest of the warnings), you changed two more redirects into entire articles, i.e. performed copy/paste moves: this edit at 10/2 21:54 and this edit at 10/2 21:57.
- My personal second warning at 10/2 22:15.
- Your response was then this mini-tirade at 10/2 22:38 and this bit of sarcasm at 10/3 00:11 when I offer to assist another editor in a proper attempt to accomplish the move that you wanted to do!
- Then this massive removal of talk page warnings at 10/3 11:06.
- My personal first warning at 10/2 20:38. At that time, your talk page looked like this, with 5 or more entire sections of various people instructing you not to do copy/paste moves including one who reported you at
- You can dispute who is being civil and who is not if you insist but at least get the facts straight, please. —Wknight94 (talk) 18:34, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Facts are easy to see - and the debate wasn't about actions and talk pages. The debate - the biggest problem I had - was your approach and choice of words. You should be more careful in choosing to use harsh words, especially when you are going to choose to lecture someone yourself. Otherwise it takes away from the effect by loosing any and all applicable respect to what you have to say. You can be stern about rules and, at the same time, be completely nice about things as well. As far as edits after warnings, well - sometimes you don't always get to see a talk page if you have two or three browsers open and are trying to make correctional edits to biased POV articles. Give some credit where credit is due. I'm sure you've made your share of mistakes. Rarelibra 01:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- As I said above, my choice of words were because your talk page was littered with various people rightfully asking you to stop doing cut-and-paste moves - all of whom you ignored. Asking nicely was not making any progress. Diverting you away from doing things incorrectly resulted in Taalo doing things correctly and got one of your articles renamed as you wanted so far. You're welcome. —Wknight94 (talk) 02:55, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Facts are easy to see - and the debate wasn't about actions and talk pages. The debate - the biggest problem I had - was your approach and choice of words. You should be more careful in choosing to use harsh words, especially when you are going to choose to lecture someone yourself. Otherwise it takes away from the effect by loosing any and all applicable respect to what you have to say. You can be stern about rules and, at the same time, be completely nice about things as well. As far as edits after warnings, well - sometimes you don't always get to see a talk page if you have two or three browsers open and are trying to make correctional edits to biased POV articles. Give some credit where credit is due. I'm sure you've made your share of mistakes. Rarelibra 01:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Revisionist history. Here's the real chronolgy:
- Your input holds little weight, wknight94. Because after you asked, there were not edits - you came in at the tail end issuing out to many threats. There was a lot of action beforehand - and my civility reflects nothing more than the same on your own part. Also, I don't believe I am claiming "innocence and pity" at all - or please point out where I do (in your own biased way). So your use of such words is attacking and offensive as well. Please refrain from using such judgmental words and, instead, approach more cautiously. I would definitely appreciate it. Rarelibra 17:06, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Wow - are you trying to take the credit for that? Or are you asking for me to thank you for any of this? Because if you are asking for a personal "thank you", you'll be severely disappointed. It almost sounds like you are justifying being noncordial and rude by saying "asking nicely was not making any progress" - is this correct? I am trying to understand your words. Rarelibra 05:50, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- You keep throwing around "noncordial and rude". What exactly is noncordial and rude about this edit? It has a nice "please" on it and a "Let me know if you have any questions". That was after you had ignored four or five requests to stop, causing one person to get so desperate as to list you at WP:AIV! With 5 non-consensus regular moves and even more non-consensus cut and paste moves, all in a 13-hour span on October 2 alone, now I'm thinking I should have just blocked you as extremely disruptive instead of simply warning. Read the above messages in this section and read your own talk page - and esp. notice how many different users are involved in both places - and then try to tell me that you weren't being disruptive. —Wknight94 (talk) 15:35, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- Again, just to get facts straight, and now to ease my confusion, here is a list of all of the users who left warnings - or at least notified you that what you were doing was wrong - on your talk page:
- Kusma (admin)
- Olessi
- Ryulong
- Asterion (who was far more forceful here than I was)
- Actually he wasn't 'forceful' at all - rather termed, he was simply stating such without actually being rude. If you look at his talk page, you will see that I communicated an apology to him. So there was no dispute here. Rarelibra 19:52, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Gryffindor (admin)
- Pmanderson (Septentrionalis) (also more forceful)
- Again, I don't see any disrespect or rudeness to her approach here, as opposed to your own wording. If anything she was stern as well as supportive. Rarelibra 19:54, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Luna Santin (admin)
- Golbez (admin)
- and finally... Wknight94 (admin)
- While making this list, now I'm confused as to why you chose me to get so angry with. Mine was one of the last warnings you received - meaning I had the most reason to be stern - and mine was actually one of the more cordial ones. Along with Thatcher131, Carcharoth and Dijxtra here and Taalo as well, you singlehandedly stirred up a bees' nest of 13 people... most in a single calendar day. Now please don't tell me you didn't cause a disruption and don't feign horror at how I chose to address you. —Wknight94 (talk) 17:38, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
- No, bottom line is you don't have the right, in either case, to be rude, inconsiderate, insulting, brash, etc. Whether I did or did not is not the debate here. It seems to be the case that you think it was justified, in which case, it wasn't. As you try to educate me, so do I try with you - making statements of "I should have just blocked you..." and the borderline "you're welcome" statement above - when taken in the wrong context - smack with quite an amount of attitude. Since tone and inclination cannot be deciphered from text, we are all supposed to assume good faith that they are positive (which I don't think has been the case on many sides of this ongoing debate/discussion). The good thing is that progress has been made already on one page - and a neutral party is aiding in the mediation process. But the disappointing thing - and I must say I have a right to state this - is the lack of awareness and one-sided judgment that took place on both Taalo and myself. The neutral party brought in could see that all parties were guilty of one thing or another (admin or otherwise). In that sense, certain individuals should have all been removed from the discussion - and not singling out one or two. You see, I am comfortable being in this position, especially if the end result brings about a change. It's called being the 'sacrificial lamb' or sometimes 'the martyr'. And after 19+ years in the US military, it runs off like water on a ducks back. I'm not even concerned with wether or not you agree with me or realize your own errors (in a sense). So if there isn't anything else, let's both move on to what we were doing best before this whole thing. Rarelibra 20:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
T-man, the Wise Scarecrow
He originally created the following two socks:
These have been blocked indefinitely, and after inappropriate use of their talk pages those were protected. I restarted T-Man's block at this point, but he subsequently made attacks on his talk page, so I increased the block to indefinite and protected the user pages there too. T-Man has most recently created the following socks:
- 201 (talk · contribs)
- 201.114.96.112 (talk · contribs)
- 201.114.107.204 (talk · contribs)
I've indef blocked all of these too, although I am unsure of the protocol of that with regards the ip addresses. Appreciate thoughts on the matter. We're quite good at spotting T-Man socks over at
18:40, 10 October 2006 (UTC)- IMO, block the IPs for 2 weeks only. If you look at their contribution history, you'll see the contributions all fit within a short timeframe (4-5 days). Also, use the anon-only block option. Based on the time period of the edits, these may be dynamic IPs, so indef-blocking them might be a bad idea. 2 weeks should be sufficient when they crop up. Mangojuicetalk 18:56, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
can someone please link to our policy against linkspamming
We have a new user user:brouhardr whose sole contributions are multiple links to his about.com pages. I would like to politely explain before I block him that these are inappropriate. Where is our policy against linkspam? alteripse 21:21, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- tjstrf21:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks, exactly what I needed. alteripse 21:58, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- He's spamming articles he wrote himself for about.com. See his user page. - n01:10, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- He's spamming articles he wrote himself for about.com. See his user page. -
Categories for dicussion/deletion
Hmm.. I found an interesting problem on the Categories for discussion (formerly "Categories for deletion") page. I noticed that The main page is listed as "discussion", but new subsections of the page are still listed as "deletion" (ie. Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 October 11. Does anybosy else think that these subpages should be moved to match the current name? — Moe 00:34, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- There are technical issues involved in making this change. Please see Wikipedia talk:Categories for deletion/Archive 6#Further implementation issues. --After Midnight 000101:44, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Corey Bryant (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log)
This user seems to have a penchant for adding blatantly false information to articles, as well as commiting random acts of more obvious vandalism. I'm not sure how to pursue this. Many of the user's edits do not seem suspect at all, while others are completely nonverifiable and strange. Anyone? -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 02:24, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- Some vandals make some good edits to try and deter admins from blocking them as they look like good users. Someone should review their edits and block if needed. → Corey Bryant (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log). --Andeh 13:15, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
User:MK013
User:Thenewghoul repeatedly removing speedy tags
I'm specifically referring to article
- Err, sorry, it looks like someone else caught him with another malicious editor, so never mind. Sorry, that must have happened while I was writing this. Very, very sorry, again, for wasting your time. —Keakealani 05:03, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks for reporting this. -- Samir धर्म 05:04, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Mediation Situation
Currently, the
Your fellow Wikipedians need your assistance. Please remember to review guidance on dealing with mediation cases, as they are voluntary attempts at seeking amicable solutions, and not cases that require you to use your admin capabilities.
Thank you,
- WP:MC is not inactive. Any future concerns of this nature should probably be brought to the attention of the Mediators in a forum where they will be likely to notice them, rather than here on the noticeboard where they will likely go unnoticed by the relevant people. --Dante Alighieri | Talk22:00, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- I'm asking here because Medcom has a 38 case backup and the chairman hasn't been seen in three months. I'm both an admin and one of the coordinators for Mediation Cabal, and the reason I chose this venue for my question is because typically admins watch this noticeboard, and as such they typically are trusted by the community and well versed in dispute resolution and Wikipedia policies. I appreciate the input, however. ~Kylu (u|t) 00:24, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- Medcom has indeed been dead for the past few months - it looks like Guanaco is making an attempt to revitalize it starting today, however, which is of course a Good Thing (insert silly trademark here). It may be good to determine who is still active there and who can take over its organization, as the Mediation Cabal is indeed struggling with a surge of cases not tended to by the Mediation Committee. Cowman109Talk01:38, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- Medcom has indeed been dead for the past few months - it looks like Guanaco is making an attempt to revitalize it starting today, however, which is of course a Good Thing (insert silly trademark here). It may be good to determine who is still active there and who can take over its organization, as the Mediation Cabal is indeed struggling with a surge of cases not tended to by the Mediation Committee.
- From what I understand (using both on- and off-wiki resources), RFAr talk, Radiant!'s talk. I imagine MedCom may well start looking for more mediators, but that's just my guess. Thanks to Dante Alighieri for being nice about the whole thing. ~Kylu (u|t) 17:07, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Unfortunately, mediation backlogs have grown, and we have been inactive for the past few months. We'll do our best to get started again, and I apologize for the delays. However, if you have an interest in mediation, please consider applying
- Medcab is sucking up much of my time lately, but thanks. :D ~Kylu (u|t) 03:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Insults from User:Flash_kz
User:Flash_kz insulted me in Talk:RealPlayer#Wrong_Critisms. He wrote that I post "spam". Before this, he wrote that I perform "vandalism" and "spread lies". Besides, he erases critical information from the RealPlayer article, in particular, he [33] erases the sentence
which is important, relevant, and NPOV. It also agrees with the principle that wikipedia is the source of secondary information.
Besides, Flash_kz ordered me to stop editing RealPlayer, see Talk:RealPlayer#Wrong_Critisms.
Besides,
Please do something to stop all this. --Urod 03:27, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
First, it's his user page,
- He doesn't state likes/dislikes, he writes that Real Alternative is illegal! And he calls me names - spamer, vandal, etc! --62.0.75.89 16:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- What he wrote doesn't violate any policy, if you don't like what he wrote don't go to his user page, Derktar 01:11, 11 October 2006 (UTC).
Is
Unprotect User talk please
As I'm unblocked, could I talk a kindly admin into reversing the damage Cyde did to my user talk (the indef blocked template and protection of my talk) so that I can edit my user talk again?
(Note: I really am unblocked or I wouldn't ask)
Thanks to whomever does this for me. Enkil 16:42, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- (Note: You really are unblocked, or you couldn't have asked.) I've unprotected the talk page in question. Mangojuicetalk 17:03, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
- Whoa. How did a sock of a banned user get unblocked? The unblock was denied by two admins before this editors talk page was blocked to prevent further attempts to get unblocked (and it was Centrex, not Cyde btw). Is it just me or are other people seeing a lot of crazy unblocks from people working the unblock-en list? Shell babelfish 02:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- You might want to ask User:King of Hearts, who did the unblocking. User:Zoe|(talk) 18:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- Whoa. How did a sock of a banned user get unblocked? The unblock was denied by two admins before this editors talk page was blocked to prevent further attempts to get unblocked (and it was Centrex, not Cyde btw). Is it just me or are other people seeing a lot of crazy unblocks from people working the unblock-en list? Shell babelfish 02:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
This user has made several edits to Lee Siegel-related pages that remove criticisms about Siegel. As this account is also violating
- That's probably the best approach. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 21:38, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Doesn't look like we'll have to deal with this after all; user was indef. blocked for the
17:41, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
A question of spam
- Getting a domain like funpic.org onto the whitelist for a single site does seem wrong. Like all times people add their own sites I would remove on sight, quote WP:EL and see if the editors of the article think the link is worthwhile. Although I'm wondering how an online games adds to an encyclopedic article about the game... Thanks/wangi20:50, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- Nevermind a site which spews out heaps of PHP errors... For sure not a useful link to add. Thanks/wangi 20:54, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- I've removed the site from the whitelist pending resolution. Naconkantari21:17, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- I've removed the site from the whitelist pending resolution.
- Nevermind a site which spews out heaps of PHP errors... For sure not a useful link to add. Thanks/wangi 20:54, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
An editor using IP
Report: vandalism of an article
I hope I am putting this in the right section, sorry if I am not. The article here: Falling Sand Game was almost completely deleted and replaced with a few words. Sorry, I dont know whether to edit it myself, or let an administrator do it. Joh777nny 20:39, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- Appears to be taken care of already, but feel free to fix it yourself if you'd like next time. See Help:Reverting for more info. Thanks! ~Kylu (u|t) 21:32, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks for the link. Joh777nny 00:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
removal of personal information
I'd like my user page deleted please. It had some personal information that I'd prefer not be on wikipedia any more. (just getting paranoid, no real reason). I'll recreate the page after it's removed. Thanks, ---J.S (t|c) 04:49, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Canvassing
It seems to me that {{
05:42, 12 October 2006 (UTC)- If there's canvassing, the template isn't the problem; the canvasser is. People easily canvass using the paste button. —Quarl (talk) 2006-10-12 07:07Z
- It's not so much the canvassing but the semi-official ass-covering provided by the template ("I'm not vote-stacking, no I'm not"). --Calton | Talk 07:16, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- It depends on how it's used - if someone messages all editors of a particular article, that's useful notification. If someone messages all users likely to "vote" a certain way, for example, self-identified inclusionists, that's hurtful canvassing. Does the fact that it's a template really make any difference? (BTW I've made some changes to it.) —Quarl (talk) 2006-10-12 08:06Z
- Contacting all the editors who've worked on an article seem good - they all got an interest, some knowledge, and a stake. OTOH they will also normally be pre-disposed to keep the article. If they are really interested in the article, wouldn't they have watchlisted it, anyway? Although the thinking behind the template is good, it does smack me as green-lighting a practice that tends to be unhelpful.--Doc08:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Contacting all the editors who've worked on an article seem good - they all got an interest, some knowledge, and a stake. OTOH they will also normally be pre-disposed to keep the article. If they are really interested in the article, wouldn't they have watchlisted it, anyway? Although the thinking behind the template is good, it does smack me as green-lighting a practice that tends to be unhelpful.--
- It depends on how it's used - if someone messages all editors of a particular article, that's useful notification. If someone messages all users likely to "vote" a certain way, for example, self-identified inclusionists, that's hurtful canvassing. Does the fact that it's a template really make any difference? (BTW I've made some changes to it.) —Quarl (talk) 2006-10-12 08:06Z
- It's not so much the canvassing but the semi-official ass-covering provided by the template ("I'm not vote-stacking, no I'm not"). --Calton | Talk 07:16, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Its a tough call; if I had contributed to an article in some meaningful way, I would probably want to be notified if it were being considered for deletion. Watchlists are no real guarantee, I routinely dump mine now whenever it goes over 10,000 (after realizing MediaWiki just doesn't want me editing a list spanning 45,000 watched pages). ;-) Can't sleep, clown will eat me 09:16, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Did you have something to contribute, or did you just fail to resist the opportunity to show off. ;-) On a more serious note, AfD is not a vote, so vote stacking isn't really an issue. Regards, Ben Aveling 09:30, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Its a tough call; if I had contributed to an article in some meaningful way, I would probably want to be notified if it were being considered for deletion. Watchlists are no real guarantee, I routinely dump mine now whenever it goes over 10,000 (after realizing MediaWiki just doesn't want me editing a list spanning 45,000 watched pages). ;-) Can't sleep, clown will eat me 09:16, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
This case is now closed and the results have been published at the link above.
Ed Poor is placed on Probation. He may be banned from any article or set of articles by an uninvolved administrator for disruptive editing, such as edit warring, original research, and POV forking. All bans are to be logged at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ed Poor 2#Log of blocks and bans.
For the Arbitration Committee. Arbitration Committee Clerk, FloNight 14:02, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Corporate vanity
An interesting noted from Brad on WikiEN-l:
- The volume of corporate vanity/vandalism which is showing up on Wikipedia is overwhelming. At the office, we are receiving dozens of phone calls *per week* about company, organization, and marketing edits which are reverted, causing the non-notable, but self-aggrandizing authors, to scream bloody murder. This is as it should be. However, I am issuing a call to arms to the community to act in a much more draconian fashion in response to corporate self-editing and vanity page creation. This is simply out of hand, and we need your help.
- We are the #14 website in the world. We are a big target. If we are to remain true to our encyclopedic mission, this kind of nonsense cannot be tolerated. This means the administrators and new page patrol need to be clear when they see new usernames and page creation which are blatantly commercial - shoot on sight. There should be no question that someone who claims to have a "famous movie studio" and has exactly 2 Google hits - both their Myspace page - they get nuked. Ban users who promulgate such garbage for a significant period of time. They need to be encouraged to avoid the temptation to recreate their article, thereby raising the level of damage and wasted time they incur.
- Some of you might think regular policy and VfD is the way to go. I am here to tell you it is not enough. We are losing the battle for encyclopedic content in favor of people intent on hijacking Wikipedia for their own memes. This scourge is a serious waste of time and energy. We must put a stop to this now.
So, are we ready for db-spam yet? And should we be protecting articles subject to vanity edits? Guy 08:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- I definitely support db-spam. It's quite frustrating to take the articles through AfD and get bashed by a hoard of socks, anon IPs all extolling the "greatness" of the company. Waiting 5 days to clean up the garbage is really very frustrating. Also, there is hardly a difference between the bio vanity and these types of corp-vanity. --Ragib 08:59, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- Support. We need this, and most users think we already have it. ЯEDVERS09:01, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- I've modified WP:CSD accordingly; please copyedit as necessary. >Radiant<11:17, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
- (Uninvolved) I like the new CSD criterion, but I'm not too sure about protecting pages that get SPAMed unless they take it to a level where it would get protected otherwise. 68.39.174.23800:31, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- (Uninvolved) I like the new CSD criterion, but I'm not too sure about protecting pages that get SPAMed unless they take it to a level where it would get protected otherwise.
*pumps fist* Did I just read this correctly - that Brad is saying shoot first and ask questions later? Hbdragon88 06:23, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- I would like such a criterion. But the way it is phrased know leaves interpretation open to the person tagging the article. We need specific cases.
- If the article is a copy of promotional material,but permission for use has been given, or when said material is a free-to-use press release.
- When it's obvious the creator of the article is promoting themselves or their company based on their username.
- When the creator shows no interest in editing other articles (with the exception of linking to his new creation)
I probably forgot more indicators. =- Mgm|(talk) 10:32, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- Let's see if an example helps me understand this a bit better - could I therefore CSD this as vanity spam or not? --Charlesknight10:45, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- In my opinion, yes. >Radiant< 15:41, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- I would speedy that, either as spam or under the new expanded A7. -- Steel15:45, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- The quarterback is toast. Ξxtreme Unction|yakkity yak 16:07, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- I would speedy that, either as spam or under the new expanded A7. --
- Let's see if an example helps me understand this a bit better - could I therefore CSD this as vanity spam or not? --
- Words of Wisdom: Not everything needs to be codified in a strict policy involving a 5 day voting procedure. One thing to remember is that deletions can be undone. Deleting an article is really no big deal. -- Drini16:08, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks for not being a process wonk, drini. ~ 22:51, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
A > G?
OK, trolling through the block log I ran across "User:National Service Center" and their aborted attempt to use their userpage as a webhost. They uploaded this image:
to go along with it. I tagged it with SPAM after someone else hit it with NSD. Is this legit? Should it be? Is it only for articels, or articels and ONLY images in articels, or any image that's used (and usable) for SPAM and not any legit purpose? Thanx.
- Orphan images from deleted articles can be tagged for deletion for such reason. Teke (talk) 05:03, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Yea, but it was used on their userpage, hence my wondering since those are usually dealt with a little differently. Anyway thanx to whoever axed it. 68.39.174.23822:28, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
- Yea, but it was used on their userpage, hence my wondering since those are usually dealt with a little differently. Anyway thanx to whoever axed it.
We need help discussing the purpose and direction of Wikipedia:Contents and the pages that it lists.
We're 3 non-admins suddenly/apparently running, what looks to the public like top-level pages, but are only newly so, and pages that will be even more visible when the
Transhumanist, Rfrisbie and I have redesigned and partially overhauled the reference pages, but are now talking ourselves in circles about how they could/should evolve. (and... what they should each contain and how they're related, whether things could be merged or renamed, and so on. (ie there's a lot of content duplication and/or misplacement, and we can't agree on size, purpose/contents, or structure for many of these pages, and indecision over the contents of Template:Contents pages (header bar), and a few other tangents (!))
Some of these are turning into simmering disputes, but we're trying to hash them out somewhat civilly still. Please, please, come overwhelm our bickering and indecision with insight and direction. thanks :) --Quiddity 22:08, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- Interesting perspective. I thought that's what Wikipedia called "editing by consensus." The more the merrier. talk02:23, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- I was trying hard to write a civil and neutral synopsis. You're welcome to add/correct anything. I could've mentioned the specific issues I and others have argued with Transhumanist/Go for it! about (WP:Own, WP:Discuss) and the RfC/UC he ignored in April, but I was trying to keep it somewhat short and impersonal. --Quiddity 03:17, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- That's fine. I would just add that not all discussions have been contentious, and the pages are coming around, even without the help of any admins lately, IMHO. At this point, I agree it would be nice to have some more editors participate in the discussions. talk16:25, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- That's fine. I would just add that not all discussions have been contentious, and the pages are coming around, even without the help of any admins lately, IMHO. At this point, I agree it would be nice to have some more editors participate in the discussions.
- I was trying hard to write a civil and neutral synopsis. You're welcome to add/correct anything. I could've mentioned the specific issues I and others have argued with Transhumanist/Go for it! about (WP:Own, WP:Discuss) and the RfC/UC he ignored in April, but I was trying to keep it somewhat short and impersonal. --Quiddity 03:17, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Talk:Paparazzo#Plural entry
Understanding that this is not an administrative issue per se, I nevertheless need feedback before I consider reverting a page move (and, a
- Definitely not an administrative issue; however, this non-administrator thinks that your reading of the situation is correct. This is the English Wikipedia, not Italian, and in English the Italian word "paparazzo" is almost never used, even though its plural is very common in media discussions. Moreover, the convention toward using the singular has a bit less force (though it is still a good idea) for nonstandard (or foreign) plurals where the difference may be more than one letter S. I think it definitely falls under the category of necessary exceptions. Gavia immer (u|t|c) 18:48, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Disputed status of Gibraltar
There seems to be some edit war going on in this article[40][41][42]. Both parties are providing equally verifiable references but I believe they seem to be confusing verifiability with truth. I am reticent to get involved myself but would appreciate some third party informal mediation before the situation escalates. Regards, Asteriontalk 10:21, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- May be best to report this to WP:RFPP.--Andeh13:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- Well, I have suggested to take any issues for mediation (i.e. 19:22, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- I'm happy for anyone to compare my Verifiable Sources with the repeated Claims of others --Gibnews 08:43, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Personal attacks against a living person
I think that someone (not me, I am being also personally attacked by these same guys) should do something with these remarks made against Pedro J. Ramírez [43], [44] by users User:Igor21 and User:Burgas00.
The guy who made the second assertion is the same guy cited in the "Gibraltar" sction above. This second libel is 3 months old, but I did not know about the Wikipedia policy about living persons back then. I suggest the complete erasure of Burgas00 remarks and of my response. Randroide 17:01, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
- Unless Pedro J. Ramírez has a Wikipedia account, how are there personal attacks against him? — Moe 01:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Libel is against the law regardless of the person having an account on wikipedia. :) ---J.S (t|c) 04:44, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- AFAIK Pedro J. Ramírez is NOT a Wikipedia user. He is the director and CEO of the second spanish newspaper and he is a very busy person.
- You are right, Moe Epsilon, I did not use the expression Personal attacks correctly. The case is that those remarks are neither in the "biography of a living person" category, so I did not know really how to classify them. The word "libel" came to my mind, but I was reluctant to use it.
- I do not even know if those remarks and foul language deserve the attention of an Administrators, I only know that I do not like that kind of language and assertions in my computer screen. Randroide 07:39, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Libel is against the law regardless of the person having an account on wikipedia. :) ---J.S (t|c) 04:44, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Randroide, I've deleted the material in the second link you gave above. The first link seemed to be about the newspaper, not the person, so I left that one. Please let me know if there's anything else that needs to be deleted. SlimVirgin (talk) 08:02, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
- Then, my case is closed. I delete my "shout" to avoid further (unneeded) attention. Thank you, SlimVirgin. Randroide 08:19, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Userproject:Conservatives
I would like to bring to general attention
- No, we have to hold a hard line here. Any project of any nature which requires any qualification other that being a Wikipedian signed up to NPOV is unacceptable. If we make any exceptions here, we are in trouble. Being a Wikipedian must be the first and only qualification. A Wikiproject conservatives is fine, as long as even Joseph Stalin would not be excluded from membership. (OK, I'll allow 'being alive' as a qualifictaion too.--Doc11:07, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- I agree there's cause for concern, but concern only. I think the line "Wikipedians first, Tories second" isn't meant to say that you must be a Tory, rather that the project comes before partisan concerns. I'm not sure I like the precedent, but I see nothing truly objectionable yet. Mackensen (talk) 11:12, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- As it stands, the project deters (to put it mildly) those who are non-Conservatives. I happen to have written Reginald Maudling, one of the three featured articles on Conservative politicians. As a Wikipedian first and only, and a Tory not at all, I couldn't really join. If it was a project to improve Conservative Party articles for all users, I would have no problem. Fys. Ta fys aym. 11:16, 12 October 2006 (UTC) (And I'm especially not going to join a project which has as its aim helping Conservatives to win elections! Fys. Ta fys aym. 11:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC))
- The Doc's very reasonable objection (above) aside for a moment, the page seems anodyne enough until the very end, where it suggests that people may be recruited via a message such as Hello, I noticed you edited {article} and from your edits you appear to be a Conservative, so I'd like to invite you etc etc (my emphasis). Despite the commendable insistence on avoiding expression of a PoV, this message is not incompatible with a suspicion that the userproject is intent on recruiting those who have exhibited a PoV. Could the insistence on avoiding a PoV be mere lipservice? ¶ I wonder about naming. A huge percentage of WP editors are from the US, and "conservative" in a US context I think means "paleoconservative" or "retrogressive" in a British one. Interesting misunderstandings might arise. -- Hoary 11:18, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Totally and utterly unacceptable. Delete it. --kingboyk 11:23, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- I agree with Kingboyk. Nothing on Wikipedia should be done with the aim of helping or hindering anyone or any group in winning or losing elections - it is completely incompatible with NPOV. Thryduulf 11:32, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Definitely a job for deletion. Dev920 has made a commendable effort to promote neutrality, but the idea is fundamentally unsound as stated above. Suggest instead that she start a Wikiproject for British politics and ancourage all participants to work for balance and neutrality across all British political subjects. We have far roo much nonsense from extremists (e.g. Association of British Counties) - although at least some of that is likely to be viewed as good by members of the Monster Raving Tory Party. Whatever, explicitly partisan projects are always bad. Guy 14:05, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- I would appreciate it if you would allow someone to make a defence rather than assuming bad faith and condemning someone out of hand.
As I outlined on the Userproject, the aim is produce Conservative party-related articles to a high and NPOV FA standard; any article submitted for GA or FA would immediately have any POV stomped on: and I welcome this! Hoary accuses me of lipservice to NPOV, but if you look at my contributions, I have consistently added NPOV information, usually with references, and have an FA standard article to my name, Jake Gyllenhaal. I don't want to create a Wikiproject politics because I only want to edit Conservative articles. I tried very, very hard to convey that message on the page. Yes, I am Conservative, yes, I want the Conservatives to win the next election, does this mean I will do that by skewing the facts? No! I'm an ideological conservative: I believe that if two ideologies were placed side by side, the Conservative one would seem obviously better to any impartial observer. Writing Conservative FA articles would show those ideas to a much greater audience. I have no desire to introduce POV to Wikipedia. Note that I wrote that I was working on the assumption that Labour articles would one day be at exactly the same standard - "we're just getting there first". You are concerned because I have admitted this POV upfront: how many would do that before simply editing articles to suit their beliefs? Please stop pillorying me because US Republicans are amoral spinners.
Obviously, I am aware there is a potential for people to push their own POV on Wikipedia. I am opposed to this (look at my edits to Islam): that's why I emphasised NPOV so strongly on my page. This is why I invited Fys to act as a NPOV checker, as a security against POV, even inadvertent POV. Instead, he reported me here. How can you judge a project that has not even begun work? How can you argue a page that exists in the user namespace should be deleted, when I have demonstrated absolutely no abuse of Wikipedia policy, and in fact, quite strongly uphold it? Hoary claims my invitation message indicates an intention to promote POV: why? A project to encourage Conservatives to join has to find them, does it not? Have I not made it absolutely crystal clear I would not, if this project took off, tolerate any vandalism of articles (because that's what it is)?
I have set up this project in my user namespace specifically because it was POV(though it's work would not be). I am a dedicated Wikipedian with a track record in writing neutral articles, and have no intention of changing this. Please do not condemn a project that has committed no break with policy, that exists for editors to admit their POV, which would lead to even greater scrunity of any articles written (which I would hardly do if I wanted to skew articles to my POV). If you want a project that writes POV into articles, delete
- Please do compare it to The Muslim Guild. That explicitly says "Although the Muslim Guild carries the word "Muslim" in its name, we encourage members of any faith to participate as long as they are knowledgeable about Islam as a religion and are willing to present an unbiased and balanced view of Islam." It does not say "... and assist Islam in winning converts" - if it did, I suspect it would be treated the way this project is being treated. Just remove the part about explicit Tory support, and I suspect your project will get along fine. Writing articles about Conservatives will tend to attract a lot of Conservatives anyway, but you can't make a particular political point of view a requirement. You will attract a few liberals (and Liberals), and you can't discourage them. AnonEMouse (squeak)16:09, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Per WP:BOLD, I'm going to take one shot at making it something that won't get deleted. It's not in the public space, it's someone else's, so feel free to revert; if it's just reverted by the owner, I won't touch it again. However, then I'm afraid it will have to go entirely for the reasons so many have stated. AnonEMouse (squeak)16:26, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Per
- There's no assumption of bad faith. It's there in black and white: "assist the Tories in winning elections". NPOV is non-negotiable, and that breaches it by some margin. --kingboyk 16:13, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Precisely. And speaking as one who remembers the last Tory Government, especially the Scott Inquiry, it's a POV I think we could well do without. Guy17:35, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Precisely. And speaking as one who remembers the last Tory Government, especially the
- We don't have userprojects, we have wikiprojects. I would suggest the page is moved to become a WikiProject. Perhaps it could be broadened out to cover all aspects of UK politics too. It's clearly inappropriate for user space. Hiding Talk 19:01, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- I have already explicitly outlined why I set up this project in my userspace; I'm not going to move it into a Wikiproject.
Moving onto the threat to delete my project because it is clearly POV: having a POV project page isn't actually contravening
If you delete my Userproject, you are overstepping your bounds as admins. I am a conscientious Wikipedian, and I have done my utmost to work within the rules. I have not contravened any policies, and you cannot delete my project on the basis that you think one day I might. If you continue to follow your interpretation of these policies, you may as well delete every userpage as
) 19:19, 12 October 2006 (UTC)- WP:USER:
- Polemical statements:
“ | libelling people on userpages is a bad idea, and in fact, using userpages to attack people or campaign for or against anything or anyone is a bad idea | ” |
- - Jimbo Wales[45]
- People have offered solutions to the pitfalls this presents. We have a WikiProject structure, and your reasons for not following it aren't valid, as shown above. Hope that helps. Hiding Talk 19:55, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- My reasons were perfectly valid: I wasn't prepared to lie about my POV reasons for writing NPOV articles. All I can say is that you are fools to force someone to abide by your perverted understanding of policy rather than what it actually says. Dev920 (Tory?) 20:23, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Please avoid calling fellow editors "fools" as it is civility. Jonathunder20:27, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Neither does deleting parts of good faith editors' userpages against their wishes. check out this proposal) 20:30, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Neither does deleting parts of good faith editors' userpages against their wishes.
- Please avoid calling fellow editors "fools" as it is
- My reasons were perfectly valid: I wasn't prepared to lie about my POV reasons for writing NPOV articles. All I can say is that you are fools to force someone to abide by your perverted understanding of policy rather than what it actually says. Dev920 (Tory?) 20:23, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm a Socialst and have always declared it on my user page to avoid any conflicts of interest (I edit neutrally, not as a Socialist). I'd like to ensure that the UK never gets a Conservative government ever again. Can I join your "userproject" and edit on that basis? If so, thanks!.. but how would that fit with existing Wikipedia policies? If not, why not?.. and how would that fit with existing Wikipedia policies? I'm sure you can see where I'm going here, but if you can answer both of these questions, I'd be pleased. And fascinated how you did it. But mainly pleased.
- It's somewhat beyond the point now, but:
- No, you couldn't have joined. Because you didn't agree with the aims of the project. Would you join a Wikiproject whose remit you were not interested in? No. That fits with existing Wikipedia policy because there are no guidelines which specifically cover Userprojects (because they get deleted on sight by jaded admins) and so the rules governing Wikiprojects would apply: only sign up if you're interested. As you are a socialist, there would be little point in you joining an explicitly Conservative project. Instead, I would have encouraged you to set up Userproject:Socialists and suggested a friendly competition to see who could reachg matching FAs first. This would obviously have fitted with Wikipedia policies as much as Userproject:Conservatives does i.e. completely. This is of course, however, now completely irrelevant because admins would rather assume bad faith than even allow a project they don't agree with get off the ground. (And btw, you might want to emigrate before the 2009 election: Labour are going doooooown...) check out this proposal) 21:40, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- So you are confirming that your goal is to organise a political faction, excluding any editors whose politics you disagree with, and then argue that this is an appropriate use of Wikimedia resources because it is in userspace instead of projectspace? Those people above who are telling you that this is inappropriate and does not match the goals of Wikipedia as a project are not "assuming bad faith", they are correcting a misunderstanding on your part about what we want to host here. Jkelly 21:47, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- He could have added himself to the membership list, but what would have been the point? He wouldn't have wanted to participate in any of the activities. It would have exactly the same as any Wikiproject - you aren't sympathetic, you don't join.
- Frankly, what I put in my userspace, as long as it is Wikipedia related and not obscene or defamatory, is none of your business. The goal of Wikipedia is to produce the world's most comprehensive free encyclopedia - an aim I utterly agree with. I wouldn't have started a project that existed to contribute to that goal if I did not believe in it. You are simply failing to understand what I wanted to achieve because you think you know what I was planning - but you evidently don't or it wouldn't have been deleted. I was seeking a group of like-minded editors to produce NPOV articles on a specific subject. Our reason for doing it is entirely irrelevant to the Wikipedian community, because the results of our work would have been exactly the same as any editor's. You keep saying it was inappropriate, but there was no policy it contravened or you would have quoted it at me by now. check out this proposal) 21:55, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- So you are confirming that your goal is to organise a political faction, excluding any editors whose politics you disagree with, and then argue that this is an appropriate use of Wikimedia resources because it is in userspace instead of projectspace? Those people above who are telling you that this is inappropriate and does not match the goals of Wikipedia as a project are not "assuming bad faith", they are correcting a misunderstanding on your part about what we want to host here. Jkelly 21:47, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- If you really want me to go over to Wikipedia:Userpage and add "Don't use your userspace as an attempt to avoid the mandatory welcoming and non-partisan nature of Wikipedia projects", I can do that. I'd rather not, because that is precisely the way that policy pages get bloated and confusing. We can't cover every bad idea on a policy page. Anyway, your confusion isn't about that, it is about this idea that "what [you] put in [your] userspace, as long as it is Wikipedia related and not obscene or defamatory, is none of your business" is wrong. We're not here to provide no-holds-barred webhosting for you. Your userspace is content that Wikimedia is publishing, and is subject to more or less the same rules and guidelines as the rest of our content. As a courtesy we generally give editors a lot of leeway in what they do with their userspace, but it is not a sacrosanct loophole to evade community standards for the project. Jkelly22:04, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- "We're not here to provide no-holds-barred webhosting for you." Did I say that? Did I say I wanted to use the userproject as a tubthumping call to Conservatism? No. Was I not at pains to emphasise the role of the project was to write NPOV articles on Conservative party related issues? Yes I was. Did I want webhosting, or was I trying to run a collaborative project to ultimately improve Wikipedia, though in select areas? The only difference between my Userproject and any Wikiproject was that it was coming from an admitted POV viewpoint: a point that had no bearing on the articles written, as any FA article is NPOV. I fail to see how any project that exists to write FA articles for Wikipedia can ever be considered against the goal of Wikipedia. check out this proposal) 22:13, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- Jkeely, it's already on 11:11, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
- "We're not here to provide no-holds-barred webhosting for you." Did I say that? Did I say I wanted to use the userproject as a tubthumping call to Conservatism? No. Was I not at pains to emphasise the role of the project was to write NPOV articles on Conservative party related issues? Yes I was. Did I want webhosting, or was I trying to run a collaborative project to ultimately improve Wikipedia, though in select areas? The only difference between my Userproject and any Wikiproject was that it was coming from an admitted POV viewpoint: a point that had no bearing on the articles written, as any FA article is NPOV. I fail to see how any project that exists to write FA articles for Wikipedia can ever be considered against the goal of Wikipedia.
- If you really want me to go over to