Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1148

User: Hob_Gadling

He is consistently bad faith; straw manning, condescending, bullying, etc....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robert_F._Kennedy_Jr./Archive_1;

"If you find a reliable source that agrees with Kennedy's defamation of people who disagree with his crazy anti-science stance ("false claims both Anthony Fauci and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation are trying to profit off a vaccine"), then you can come back and contest the word "false"."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robert_F._Kennedy_Jr./Archive_2;

"Are you making WP:LEGAL threats?" -- Be sure to read Lindosland's comment Hob responded to so to see how ridiculous of a response this was.

"If you do not agree with what the sources say or with the way Wikipedia works, that is your problem."

"In short, you have two conflicting accounts from two differents sources: the scientific community and Wikipedia on one hand and Kennedy and his antivax troops on the other. And if source A and source B contradict each other, obviously source A must be wrong. Which, in this case, is the scientific community and Wikipedia. Sound logic, as always in this area."

"We have reliable sources calling him an anti-vaxxer, and we would not be "a credible source of information" if we omitted that information. Your pharma shill gambit fools no one here."

"The article says he made false claims about Fauci. That is correct, according to reliable sources. What is your problem? You want that fact hidden?"

"Bullshit. Go to some forum to whine. This is not a forum."

"This article is based on reliable sources. They say Kennedy's stance on vaccines is wrong. End of story."

"You have "disproved" nothing. If you can give a good reason why any of the sources used in the article should not be regarded as reliable, bring it. Otherwise, go away."

"Exactly what it says: Let's see what other users think. I don't know what is so hard to understand about that."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robert_F._Kennedy_Jr./Archive_3;

"Your proposed edit Who are you talking to? The indentation says it is me, but I did not suggest any edits. Neither did M.boli. And the one above that one, which actually does propose an edit, seems to be you yourself."

"Why? It seems kind of important that if this guy becomes the Democrat candidate, Americans will have to choose between two people who live in parallel fantasy universes. (It's probably a given that the Republican candidate will be no better. Their sane wing has been tiny and weak for several decades now.)" - Hob knows to keep things related to improving the article (archive 2, "This page is not a forum. It is for improving the article.") yet he is taking shots at RFK Jr and Trump here.

"His "Children's Health Defense" regularly equates mainstream scientists with Nazis." - evidence?

"Yeah, he also sleeps and eats every day, which is also something far different. So what?"

"Nobody cares. Discussions are not about the discussers' positions, they are about their reasoning"

"What happens if these government "experts" are wrong and that's not revealed until a decade from now Come back when that happens. Until then, we will use the knowledge we have now (which is that Kennedy's disinformation is spreading disease and killing children by convincing their parents and the parents of their neighbors not to protect them by vaccination). See WP:CRYSTALBALL" -- I think the use of crystalball here is excellent, but everything Hob said leading up to this is bullying, condescension, and borderline harassment of anyone on the page who disagrees with him.

"Can we stop this? This is not a forum, see WP:NOTFORUM. Go acquire competence (see WP:CIR), and come back when you know how to use valid reasoning."

Two examples of straw manning; "I did read OR. I'm not applying my own thoughts -- making a claim. Please re-read my OP." - this quote is of me.

"'I didn't say' Yes you did."

"That may be the case in a very few cases, but in general, it is just the Dunning-Kruger effect."

"Not continuing this losing battle is a great idea, although the reason for it is bad because telling an inexperienced person that they are inexperienced is not an insult."

That's only Archive 1-3 (of 6) of one Wikipedia article so I could continue, but I hopefully that is sufficient evidence to convince any reader that Hob Gadling is in bad faith. Personally, I'm hoping to see he is no longer in Talk tabs because so many of his discussions are disruptive to the progressive flow of the article. I am also hoping to see his editing privileges get removed. Cmsmith93 (talk)

To be clear: you're reporting an editor for edits made in June 2023 and all the way back to 2021? Is there any recent behavior that's concerning you? Otherwise this report is stale. You mention that you "could continue" with newer talk pages — I would recommend you do so, and perhaps try again with this report with behavior that is actually actionable (if it exists) rather than scraping an editor's history more than two years back. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 01:44, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I've topic banned

WP:IDHT. While Hob Gadling's interaction style could use some improvement, Cmsmith93's lack of understanding of how Wikipedia works, despite ample information being provided, has been a drain on editor time and patience for quite a while now. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk

) 02:00, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I think that Cmsmith93 is fortunate to receive such a minor sanction. I would have indefinitely blocked this editor for TLDR axe grinding. Cullen328 (talk) 06:58, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

A block which I would have supported. Doug Weller talk 12:18, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

BarrySpinno (talk · contribs · logs) I reviewed this article Draft:British Airways plc v Commission and its seemingly unsourced and is now in draft. Its been in draft before which I never noticed. Its a legal article and its a single source. Its a copy and paste from the legal site onto Wikipedia. There is no context on it for the average reader, or indeed anybody who isn't a lawyer. One of the articles that editor wrote was at Afd: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Superannuation Industry (Supervision) Act 1993 which seems to indicate its notable. Its the law the land in Australia. But there must be more than that, like e.g. why it came about, the history of it. Every article that reviewers have looked at, has been sent to draft. If that perfectly correct. For me it just a straight copy and paste exercise with little value to the reader. It is a bit of a dichotomy. This may be the wrong venue for this. scope_creep^Talk 16:23, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

scope creep, I do not understand why this matter is at ANI. The whole purpose of draft space is to allow ongoing work on a topic, which is the case here. When I look at BarrySpinno's talk page, I see a bunch of canned template alerts and warnings, that BarrySpinno often responds to with replies and follow-up questions. And yet no other editor has engaged this relatively new editor in actual human-to-human communication about things like our expectations on sourcing and how to develop coverage of a topic in sandbox or draft space before adding it as an encyclopedia article. I think that sort of human interaction should come long before an ANI report. Cullen328 (talk) 19:53, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

It's the wrong venue. It is a draft article - the copy paste might be an issue but it looks quoted and the article is work in progress so not sure what the issue is. LegalSmeagolian (talk) 19:56, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

@Cullen328: I think your probably right. That is cogent advice. Close this, please. 19:58, 31 January 2024 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scope creep (talk • contribs)

FrankKataklian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This is the second time this user had edited the

Also looking at their short contribution history, their very first edit was [1] to add a link to

Troll. Introduced to the door. Courcelles (talk) 13:31, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

This morning Lee Vilenski raised the issue of YoloMc8562’s user page with them.[2] In short, the user page appears to be a collection of personal blogs about YoloMc8562’s video game experiences, documenting fictional professional wrestling matches on a wrestling video game, as well as their own commentary and reviews of this fan fiction.

I concurred with Lee’s comment[3] and also highlighted a particularly problematic statement that was in there. I informed YoloMc8562 that I would remove the material per

Very clearly has a misunderstanding of what Wikipedia is and unable/unwilling to read the policy on userpages. Whilst we do allow some content that isn't strictly aligned with Wikipedia's aims in userspace, we don't support a video game blog.

Their responses when told and the information was removed isn't fantastic. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:12, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Just a note they've moved the information to User:YoloMc8562/sandbox, probably to try and mask that it exists. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:21, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

No, I did it so if it gets removed again I still have somewhere to store the text. YoloMc8562 (talk) 10:26, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

You do have somewhere to store the text: your own personal computer's hard drive. Wikipedia is not a webhost, no matter where on its servers you seek to stash your personal blog. Such content is not allowed anywhere on Wikipedia, full stop, and you risk being blocked as

WP:NOTHERE if you persist in trying. Ravenswing

10:32, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Worth pointing out that YoloMc8562 just re-added the content after the page was speedily deleted, before removing it again – I suspect so that they have it in the edit history and can refer back to it. Not sure if that's still rule-violating, but worth mentioning. — Czello ^(music) 11:34, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I deleted the sandbox as an obvious

WP:U5. What is it with wrestling editors and disruption? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)}

11:40, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I feel a good 50% of my time in this corner of Wikipedia is dealing with disruption, unfortunately.

Are you able to look at the issue above your comment, where they briefly restored the content so it's still in the edit history? — Czello ^(music) 11:41, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm happy to just re-delete the page(s). It seems very clear that this user is not here to build an encyclopedia, but rather have a host for a video game record. I'd support a block in this instance, but I'm a bit close to it to handle it myself. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:57, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Lol the stalking is insane YoloMc8562 (talk) 12:03, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Why not just save this information on your own computer/cloud rather than using Wikipedia for something it's not designed for? — Czello ^(music) 12:04, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Because Wikipedia has the templates I need (i.e. {{Pro wrestling results table}} and {{Pro wrestling title reign}}) no other website have them so I don't know where else to put it. I'd use a Word document or something but yeah. YoloMc8562 (talk) 12:06, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

You can create a personal Miraheze wiki and import the Wikipedia templates there! ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 12:16, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Wait really? What's Miraheze? YoloMc8562 (talk) 12:17, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

A place to host your own wikis, you can import Wikipedia templates and stuff there. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 12:28, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I tried it and it doesn't have the templates I need, thanks for the help though, I don't know where else to try. YoloMc8562 (talk) 12:42, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

You would have to create such a thing. You don't just have the right to host it here. It's especially onorous as you have well over 500 edits (basically half) on this blog. Messages like "this is cringe" and "the stalking is insane" isn't helpful. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:45, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

You can import them, there is a tool for that. Although this is getting a bit off-topic, and I invite you to ask on Miraheze for help on importing Wikipedia templates there. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 12:53, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Alright, thanks for the help! YoloMc8562 (talk) 13:04, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Once we establish that someone is

WP:HERE, I don't know why we care what sort of nonsense they have on their user page. I have a reference to Katamari Damacy, The Prisoner, chess, other silliness, and some other personal information on my userpage. My user talk page has a section for music recommendations. I got all of these ideas from looking at other people's pages, many of which have much, much more of this sort of content. We were here not long ago with a user whose user and user talk pages are so long and packed with images that they frequently crash people's browsers or fail to load, and for the Nth time there was no action. It's a classic example of a rule we only enforce on new users. How about this: Yolo, (1) it's in the "even pushing it for an experienced user to get away with" territory in terms of size. Keep is shorter. (2) Consider putting it on a subpage. (3) Be really careful not to look like you're here primarily to maintain that page. — Rhododendrites ^talk

\\ 13:13, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

The user you're referencing is notoriously immune to long-term action. Their ability to unduly get away with it shouldn't open the door to others being able to; indeed, this shouldn't be a case of where it's only enforced on new users and should instead be enforced across the board. I don't think it's helpful to give a green light to YoloMc8562 on this when their pages have already been deleted by two different admins. — Czello ^(music) 13:26, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi, Just thought I'd say I only copied and pasted it over to my sandbox (which got deleted as I said) because I was panicking that I was gonna lose it, however I was able to copy and paste it over to a Notepad document. Sorry for forgetting to then remove it from the sandbox before it got deleted, Sorry for my reaction over this, I was just annoyed over what I felt was people not minding their own business, but I can understand why it was deleted. Its just annoying its happened this late because I can't really copy and paste it over to another website except Wikipedia because it uses templates from here. YoloMc8562 (talk) 13:31, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate that comment. I echo Chaotic Enby's comment that Miraheze would suit you better (I think there are other fan wikis that might also be available). Even if importing the table from here is difficult, they're likely to have suitable alternatives that might work. If all else fails, I'd never overlook trusty Microsoft Excel / Google Sheets for being able to build tables quickly and easily. — Czello ^(music) 13:36, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, just Miraheze seems very bare bones with seemingly not much on there, I'm not sure on how to transfer it over because I don't have the Wikipedia page with it anymore and I don't have an XML file, and I don't know any other fan wikis :P YoloMc8562 (talk) 13:39, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Miraheze has a tool to import a given Wikipedia template and all of the subtemplates it uses at the same time, which I used quite a few times on a wiki I created there. Otherwise, Fandom is another wiki host that is arguably less powerful technically but more intuitive to use and easier to set up. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 13:39, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Yeah I know but I don't know how to find it lol, Fandom is another site I tried, but once again, the templates being the problem. YoloMc8562 (talk) 13:50, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

The tl;dr is: create a Miraheze wiki → create a page on your new wiki → paste your content on that page → import the templates you need with the import tool → it should work. Feel free to ask Miraheze volunteers if there's any issue you encounter. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 13:43, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I already made the page, I just don't know how to find the import tool haha. YoloMc8562 (talk) 13:54, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

yourdomain.miraheze.org/Wiki/Special:Import ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 14:05, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll try that now. YoloMc8562 (talk) 14:08, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I don't know what is considered a big size on here because I don't really have any scale for it, My thing is just under 400,000 bytes, I'm not sure what "subpage" I could put it on here, I'd be open to do that, but my user page and sandbox have already been swiftly deleted. Also just thought I'd say I'm not new to WIkipedia, as I saw someone state that on one of my pages earlier, I've had this account since October 2021, and I also edit WWE pages as well as pages for my football team I support (Sheffield Wednesday F.C.). Do you know anywhere else I could put the page? YoloMc8562 (talk) 13:27, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Frankly, that's not our problem to solve. WaggersTALK 13:56, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Well yes, but he said put it on a subpage, and I don't know what "subpage" on here to put it on. YoloMc8562 (talk) 14:06, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

This really isn't the place to be discussing how to use a different website - it's almost as bad a

WP:WEBHOST violation as the original page. With the content now deleted I'm guessing there's no further action to be taken and we can close this thread? WaggersTALK

14:13, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I mean since I'm clearly not gonna be able to put it back on Wikipedia then I guess lol YoloMc8562 (talk) 14:20, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

By "subpages" people mean you can create additional pages in user space. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:YoloMc8562 is your user page, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:YoloMc8562/subpage where [subpage] can be just about any valid string of text creates a "subpage" in your userspace.

talk

) 14:21, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Worth noting that the content being discussed is not suitable for anywhere in userspace. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:24, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

As my point earlier, I'm clearly not gonna be able to put this back on here without getting blocked. YoloMc8562 (talk) 14:31, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I mean I'm cool to do what @Rhododendrites suggested, which was put it on a subpage, but as stated idk if people would be fine with it. YoloMc8562 (talk) 15:01, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Are we even sure they are here to build an encyclopedia? All they've done since being asked to remove their webhost is to move it to other pages, such as User:YoloMc8562/WWE 2001- Universe Mode/PPV Table and make null edits on their userpage. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:35, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm going to block indefinitely as a regular admin action, not as a claimed community consensus. This has gone on long enough and YoloMc8562 either

can't understand. --Yamla (talk

) 16:50, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm writing to request assistance with a group of editors who have repeatedly reinserted the same comments "conflict of interests", "reads like an essay", and "duplicates existing content", even though the article that these comments applied to was deleted and completely rewritten. The editors were asked multiple times to justify attaching comments from a deleted article to an entirely new article. But as can be seen from this talk page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_talk:General_Collective_Intelligence , the editors refused to provide any substantive reply. I'm at a loss. I would appreciate any assistance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CognitiveMMA (talk • contribs) 01:59, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

This is as clear a case of

MrOllie (talk

) 02:10, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm looking at the deleted contributions of Draft:Deleted Article, and I'm seeing some content regarding the Montenegrin Republic of Zeta-Duklja in the deleted contributions. The move referred to by Ollie was to Draft:Deleted Page. Admins can see the version immediately prior to the blank-and-move at this link. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 03:40, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I have rejected the draft,

WP:NOTESSAY being the primary reason. v/r - Seawolf35 ^T--C

04:54, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

There was content related to the "Montenegrin Republic of Zeta-Duklja" what? That is simply untrue. The article was about a form of collective intelligence. CognitiveMMA (talk) 05:10, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

The draft previously at Draft:Deleted Article was not your draft; the one formerly at Draft:Deleted Page was. Ollie appears to have accidentally misattributed the first one to you. The point of my comment was to direct admins/other editors to the correct draft title. I apologize if my comment above was unclear in this regard. — Red-tailed sock _{(Red-tailed hawk's nest)} 05:51, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

To be clear, my issue was that their comments referred to the deleted article, but they kept reinserting their comments even though those comments no longer applied. There is no way this can be within Wikipedia's policies for them to do, and to repeat doing many times without providing explanation despite clearly being requested to provide their reasoning. CognitiveMMA (talk) 05:56, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Is it Wikipedia policy to allow the same group of editors that I'm raising the issue about to be the ones to carry out further actions regarding this complaint, like rejecting the article? Isn't that a conflict of interest? The editor @

WP:NOTESSAY? If the article does violate any such criteria I'd like to fix it. But falsely claiming it does and refusing to specify any details is disruptive. CognitiveMMA (talk

) 05:24, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

The talk page of the editor @

MrOllie that I raised the complaint about. For this reason I'm adding him to the complaint as well. Wikipedia is supposed to be about disseminating knowledge, not a personal club to settle vendettas. I don't mind if they provide legitimate reasons for rejecting the article, but providing clearly false reasons like saying that I've cited my own work, and then refusing to provide any detail to their comments ... there has to be some way to address this. CognitiveMMA (talk

) 05:31, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Andy puts it better than I could below. v/r - Seawolf35 ^T--C 06:00, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Aside from making subjective comments, @

WP:NOTESSAY

that the article violates. Wikipedia editors, since often not experts in every field covered on Wikipedia, are expected to evaluate articles based on specific Wikipedia guidelines and standards, rather than their personal understanding or expertise in the topic. The key aspects they focus on include:

1. Notability: The subject must meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines. This is usually demonstrated through coverage in reliable, independent sources.
2. Verifiability: Information must be verifiable and backed by reliable sources. Editors check if the references provided are credible and relevant to the topic.
3. Neutrality: The content should be written from a neutral point of view, without bias or promotion.
4. Original Research: Wikipedia does not allow original research. All content should be based on published information from reliable sources.
5. Quality and Clarity: The article should be well-written, understandable, and organized, but a deep understanding of the subject matter is not required for this.

It's not reasonable for an editor to reject an article solely because they don't understand the specialized content, provided the article meets the above criteria. CognitiveMMA (talk) 06:50, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

It is entirely reasonable for an article to be rejected because it cannot be understood. The burden rests with the contributor(s) responsible, who have to make it understandable. If they can't do that, putting it in an encyclopaedia serves no purpose. AndyTheGrump (talk) 07:08, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

The rejection of the article was clearly legitimate. It is not just an essay, but a poorly-written one at that, give its failure to explain clearly what the hell it is actually about. Repetition of a phrase doesn't do that, and nor do vague unsourced assertions about sociobiology, political science etc using the term. And neither does more unsourced nonsensical waffle suggesting that 'collective IQ' is some sort of actual thing. Wikipedia is under no obligation to publish the essay, and shouldn't. AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:58, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Google Scholar cites 1600 instances of use of the term "collective IQ" in the academic literature. Are we to believe your subjective opinion as an anonymous Wikipedia editor who knows nothing about the topic, or are we to believe credentialed experts who have published articles in peer reviewed academic publications? Regarding vague your comment about "vague unsourced assertions about sociobiology, political science etc." those assertions were reused from the Wikipedia page on collective intelligence to draw a distinction between collective intelligence platforms and general collective intelligence platforms. The content on the collective intelligence page has clearly been published and approved. Saying the article is "poorly-written" is a subjective comment. My request is that any editor who takes the time to comment on this issue please specify the criteria WP:NOTESSAY that the article violates, if any. CognitiveMMA (talk) 06:13, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I can certainly concur that after reading your draft, I know no more on the topic than I did before. As for expertise, I've been reading poorly-written Wikipedia content for over two decades now, and think I can recognise it when I see it. For example, I'm still trying to figure out what the repeatedly-used word 'platform' is referring to. Clearly not something one stands on, waiting for a train. And I don't think it refers to something a political party comes up with before an election either. 'Platform' could mean all sorts of things, none of which seems obvious from context. As a general rule, whether writing explanatory content, for academia or otherwise, one attempts to write for the benefit of the expected readership, who shouldn't have to read through the whole thing like a detective novel, seeking explanation, only to discover that the explanation is never given. That might possibly have worked for the great

Dashiel Hammett, but we don't work that way. AndyTheGrump (talk

) 06:47, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

At least that's a specific comment that can be addressed by replacing the term "platform" with "software platform". CognitiveMMA (talk) 06:53, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

In which case I think it is safe to assume that the vast majority of the Google Scholar results you found were referring to something else - from a quick sample, they appear to be. I sincerely doubt that sociobiologists for example are referring to software. Or to anything else not (according to their theories) transmitted through good old-fashioned biological DNA. And if you are indeed referring to software, everything but the first paragraph of your draft appears to be off-topic. Or perhaps padding, added to make this hypothetical software platform seem more important than it actually is. Perhaps your efforts would be better directed towards realising the hypothetical, rather than towards trying to convince people how good it is going to be? AndyTheGrump (talk) 07:04, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I hope your comments are just for your entertainment and are not part of this administrative process. You can't replace a comprehensive review of the academic literature with your subjective understanding of a few articles you found on the Internet. If your response sounds even remotely reasonable to you I request that you at least use a chatbot like ChatGPT4 to get some more insight. CognitiveMMA (talk) 07:09, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I have blocked CognitiveMMA as not here to build an encyclopedia. This editor's participation here for several years is summarized by this comment: An editor censoring this important information simply to exercise one’s personal bias in the way that has been done, and continuing to censor that information for years, particularly when that information is potentially important to so many people … what good purpose is served by this? Can you think of many things that are more harmful? Literally, this article is just describing the difference between a collective intelligence that optimizes outcomes for some centralized entity, and a general collective intelligence that optimizes outcomes for all participants, and it’s saying that understanding the distinction is critical because the difference between the societal impacts of the two is potentially great.. I cannot recall any editor who indignantly hollered about censorship actually contributing positively to this encyclopedia. We do not needed tendentious axe-grinding to right great wrongs by editors who think that opposing their self promotion is somehow the most harmful thing on planet Earth. The editor appears unable to collaborate productively with other Wikipedia editors. The waste of time has come to an end, and the blocked editor is free to promulgate their own theories on some other website. Cullen328 (talk) 07:40, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I got to the last comment prior to yours, Cullen328, and was heading to the editor's talk page to block indefinitely also. On that basis, I clearly support the block. Daniel (talk) 07:50, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Is that what this is all about? ...a general collective intelligence that optimizes outcomes for all participants...? An imaginary BenthamBot which has ...the greatest happiness of the greatest number... built into its algorithmic soul? If so, I'd have to suggest that we don't need such a Bot here, since Cullen has already found the route to maximum happiness. AndyTheGrump (talk) 07:52, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks,

Policies and guidelines and refraining from self-promotional bullshit artistry. Cullen328 (talk

) 08:08, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

As usual I slept through all the drama and am waking up to the result. Thank you for the collective input everyone. Theroadislong (talk) 08:48, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't know why people get into such a fuss over a few mouse clicks, they seem to forget that almost all actions on Wikipedia are easily reversed. v/r - Seawolf35 ^T--C 08:54, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

• Good block by
  DRN because it was about a decline of a draft. The subject editor appears to be a self-promoting author who writes incomprehensibly. If I read this sort of stuff ten years ago, I would conclude either that it was badly translated from the French original, or badly translated from the German original, or written by an author whose native language is English but who writes what appears to be bad translation. If I read this sort of stuff in 2024, I conclude either that it was written by a large language model, or was written by an author who writes as if he is a large language model. Robert McClenon (talk
  ) 17:39, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

WesDuDe92811 and Tatthehulk are related by the edit summaries in their contributions. Toketaa^talk 17:30, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. Both blocked per

WP:NOTHERE; it hardly seems worth my while to check which is master and which is sock. Bishonen | tålk

17:40, 29 January 2024 (UTC).

Check by account creation date? Toketaa^talk 17:42, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Just checked. Wesdude was made first. Toketaa^talk 17:44, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

@

Wikipedia:LITTLEBROTHER but I am not sure. Toketaa^talk

18:16, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Then their account was

WP:COMPROMISED and needs to remain blocked. RickinBaltimore (talk

) 18:37, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Tell them to make a new account, link it to the old one via talk page, and after that global lock the old one maybe? Toketaa^talk 19:12, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) If that's true, then they lost control of their account and it's compromised, so they don't get to edit. If false, then they lied and are trolling. Either way, the block should stand. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 19:08, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Mainly wondering how they would appeal if they could. Toketaa^talk 19:31, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Either they need to create a new account and make a much more secure password, or just simply quit Wikipedia for a while, wait for a couple of years and then create a new account. NoobThreePointOh (talk) 19:35, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

So how would someone reply to them saying that? Toketaa^talk 19:36, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I have actually no idea. Since I'm not an admin with CU rights, I assume that someone like Yamla or NinjaRobotPirate, who both DO have CU rights, can possibly inspect the account (I'm not sure, but probably that's how CU works). NoobThreePointOh (talk) 19:39, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

It's just an inference. Maybe I'm wrong. NoobThreePointOh (talk) 19:40, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Even then, if they come on a new account and start acting like this again, this definitely will be considered

WP:LITTLEBROTHER. NoobThreePointOh (talk

) 19:41, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

• WesDuDe92811 has already appealed for unblock and an uninvolved admin has declined the appeal. Also, if WesDuDe92811 let Tatthehulk have use of their phone and of their password, they have only themselves to blame. I'm not unblocking anybody. Bishonen | tålk 19:53, 29 January 2024 (UTC).

  Yeah, I wouldn't recommend it either. NoobThreePointOh (talk) 19:54, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

  Makes sense, I was just seeing what would happen in that case because I never seen that stuff before. Toketaa^talk 19:55, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

  It's really interesting to see this much

  WP:LITTLEBROTHER being in place. Usually, most blocked users just admit that they made the mistake (even if they are making personal attacks and having incivility), but this? Damn. NoobThreePointOh (talk

  ) 19:57, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

  Not going to lie

  Wikipedia:LITTLEBROTHER should be remade as a non humor essay and have the humor one moved to a different article. Toketaa^talk

  19:58, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

  Eh, it depends. NoobThreePointOh (talk) 20:02, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

User:Nissimamon has been persistently removing critical content from his own page, as can be seen here: [4], despite having received several warnings on his talk page. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 11:08, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I've blocked them indefinitely from editing the article. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 11:23, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Should this guy maybe just be blocked as

WP:SPA for PR purposes only. Dronebogus (talk

) 21:54, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

• TxBangert (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Today, TxBangert removed the redirect at

... I looked at their most recent edits prior to today, which were to Denial (2016 film), a film also about Holocaust denial, where they added a citation to user reviews on IMDb (an unsuitable source) to justify a statement about how unlikeable they think the main character of the film is. The main character is a portrayal of Deborah Lipstadt, who is involved in a lawsuit against a Holocaust denier.

I have serious concerns about these edits, particularly the ones from today, and suggest that an indefinite block citing Wikipedia:Hate is disruptive would be appropriate. DanCherek (talk) 21:53, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

That's two Nazis in two days at ANI, I'm starting to be a little concerned even though they don't look to be the same person. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 22:03, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

If you look at their logs/edit history, there's some indication as to who they are. And yes, they appear to be a real nazi. Viriditas (talk) 22:08, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Maybe due to International Holocaust Remembrance Day, which I imagine causes an annual exodus of bad haircuts leaving their mom's basement. Levivich (talk) 22:15, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

That could be it, unfortunately... ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 22:17, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

You can view

MOS:DOCTOR, and it's an attempt to burnish the credentials of holocaust deniers. The pattern is consistent. Mackensen (talk)

22:12, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

This is the only way I know to contact Wikipedia. I was researching "Steele Dossier" and I think the contents there are Democrat propaganda. I've donated 4 or 5 times and have used Wikipedia as a reliable source, but I now will be very careful and not rely on Wikipedia for the truth. See the article at https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/11/politics/steele-dossier-fbi-durham-danchenko/index.html

The CNN article is much more reliable. You should make serious efforts to avoid political operatives tampering with articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:484:C200:22F0:0:0:0:182B (talk) 22:17, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Unrelated to ANI, should belong in Talk:Steele dossier if anywhere. That CNN article was already discussed in Talk:Steele dossier/Archive 26. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 23:28, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

• TxBangert indeffed. Bishonen | tålk 00:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC).

I made a contribution to Kaspersky bans and allegations of Russian government ties on 7th Jan 2024. Four days later this was reverted by the new user Byte-ul.

Byte-ul claimed my contribution was vandalism and malicious, despite it being on topic and referenced. They reverted a fourth time from their IP address rather than signed in (they claim by mistake - User_talk:Byte-ul).

I opened a new topic on the Talk:Kaspersky_bans_and_allegations_of_Russian_government_ties page, asking them to explain their reverts. That unfortunately went nowhere, and my DRN and 3O requests were both closed due to there being issues of user conduct as well.

Byte-ul has engaged in disingenuous reverts and making blatantly false and hypocritical accusations that I made edits to settle personal disputes and harassment.

I request that my contribution be restored, with the two edits suggested by me on the Talk:Kaspersky_bans_and_allegations_of_Russian_government_ties page, as the article is now extended-protected.

Ilike2burnthing (talk) 13:18, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Warned: User talk:Byte-ul#Warning. El_C 14:30, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) Please don't doxx another editor's off-wiki account again, including if you are continuing here an argument from that site (which isn't advised to do in general). ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 16:28, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

@Chaotic Enby see my response to User_talk:Ilike2burnthing#c-A_smart_kitten-20240127175800-A_smart_kitten-20240127175300. Ilike2burnthing (talk) 18:30, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't know who, if anyone, is right here, because much of the discussion appears to be

Phil Bridger (talk

) 19:24, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't really see how, as it is just 'person X asked FOO, entity Y replied BAR', all being referenced.

If the objection is to the phrasing, "[...] citing reports from Germany, France, and Belgium which found no evidence of this," then I suppose this could be changed to just directly quoting from the first reference, "[...] Germany, France and Belgium do not perceive any problems with cooperation with the firm concerned[.]" Ilike2burnthing (talk) 20:20, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, that is a lot of text to go through in that link. Is this matter still outstanding? Is assistance from an administrator still needed? El_C 23:50, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

See from 'Suggested resolution' onwards in Talk:Kaspersky_bans_and_allegations_of_Russian_government_ties, as it's the only part I regard as unresolved. Thanks. Ilike2burnthing (talk) 01:32, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

The user has apologised for losing their temper, so I don't think further action is necessary other than to say, paraphrasing

Life of Brian, "Right .... now don't do it again". Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)}

09:38, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

• Anthroposophy (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Evidence of

Also Google "this guy Tgeorgescu is shitting all over Anthroposophy — and it is not right to let his lies stand. please help get the word out. thanks jp".

Date: 19 October 2023.

Hard to miss: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=%22shitting+all+over+Anthroposophy%22

John Penner

January 3 at 2:55 AM ·

calling for a bit of help here — to help with some Vandalism to the wikipedia article for Anthroposophy Wikipedia Article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthroposophy

if you check the Wikipedia Edit HISTORY — you can see how the Anthroposophy entry has been VANDALIZED by one guy — Tgeorgescu — with an axe to grind — trying to prove that Anthroposohpy is racist — making over 100 edits to the Anthroposophy article — when i know for a fact that Anthroposophists are the most inclusive, open, and diverse group. i was so shocked when a friend who had asked me about Anthroposophy thought i was Racist — because it was the first thing she read on Wikipedia — until i read the EDIT HISTORY — over a 100 edits from one guy — Tgeorgescu — grrr 😡

someone help me get this Vandal out of Wikipedia — with his lies. if you could spend a couple minutes to login to Wikipedia and correct just one statement in the article — that would be of use — because right now — this guy Tgeorgescu is shitting all over Anthroposophy — and it is not right to let his lies stand. please help get the word out. thanks jp

Full quote.

Disclosure: I don't know which editor is John Penner or even if he edited Wikipedia at all. So, I am not

If you ask me "Is Anthroposophy racist?" my answer is neither yes nor no. I will say it is a mixed bag.

And some people cannot understand that I'm not pushing original research, I'm merely mirroring mainstream

I can't see any evidence from the article history that the Facebook post led to anything. What action are you expecting to be taken? AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:17, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

@

WP:SPAs which have edited Anthroposophy and Rudolf Steiner in the past four months would be indicating some foul play. tgeorgescu (talk

) 17:33, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

A dispute about Anthroposophy was heard at AE last November. That complaint was opened by Tgeorgescu as a complaint against

WP:PSCI. There was also a Waldorf education Arbcom case which mentioned Anthroposophy, though the sanctions were abolished in 2022. To go any further with this complaint, I think User:Tgeorgescu would need to explain what ongoing abuse could be prevented by some admin action. One option is extended-confirmed protection. EdJohnston (talk

) 17:49, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Just because I see the problem, it does not follow that I have a solution. But I'll go for the extended-confirmed protection. tgeorgescu (talk) 17:52, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Also at ANI a couple of weeks ago: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1147#User who cannot learn what WP:V means. SamwiseGSix hasn't really edited since then. I looked at the history of Anthroposophy and also didn't see any disruption since then.

@Tgeorge ... the off-wiki harassment you're quoting sucks and I'm sorry you're having to deal with that. However, I don't see any problems at the article since the last ANI ... which means no current problem?

I did, though, see this: Special:Diff/1194757415 and Special:Diff/1194757024. I really can't think of any situation where it's OK to say something about another editor in a hidden comment. I'm surprised that didn't get brought up in the last ANI thread, but please don't do this again.

Samwise said they'd walk away from the article at the last ANI, and it seems they have done so. I don't see any disruption since the last ANI -- nothing current -- so I don't see any grounds for ECP or anything else here. Levivich (talk) 17:55, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I didn't know that was prohibited. When someone pointed out it is prohibited, I have ceased performing such hidden comments. tgeorgescu (talk) 18:01, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't know that we have a specific rule against it... but I think everyone would agree that articles are not the place to write anything about editors, even in hidden comments. I mean if someone wants to go around adding <!-- Levivich is awesome --> to articles, I'm sure no one would object. Anyway, thanks for ceasing. Levivich (talk) 18:05, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

For the record, here are some rules as per Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, but I agree having specific written rules isn't necessary to understand that commenting on other editors within articles isn't helpful: Wikipedia is not a place to publish your own thoughts and analyses..., Wikipedia is not a soapbox..., and Wikipedia is not a battleground... Making personal battles out of Wikipedia discussions goes directly against our policies and goals. isaacl (talk) 19:39, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Whether or not anyone's pointed out a rule to you, please strive to be as collaborative as possible. It shouldn't be a surprise that personal commentary, wherever it is placed, is not conducive to working co-operatively. isaacl (talk) 19:39, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

One suspects that people who belong to a large group might independently become displeased by an extremely popular website's article about them vaguely insinuating that they personally are racists, without there necessarily being a coordinated conspiracy on their part. jp×g🗯️ 17:50, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

This is not vaguely insinuating, but saying it aloud: Wieringa, Tommy (8 May 2021). "Groene vingers". NRC (in Dutch). Archived from the original on 7 May 2021. Retrieved 7 February 2023. Het was een ontmoeting van oude bekenden: nazi-kopstukken als Rudolf Hess en Heinrich Himmler herkenden in Rudolf Steiner al een geestverwant, met zijn theorieën over raszuiverheid, esoterische geneeskunst en biologisch-dynamische landbouw. — It was a meeting of old acquaintances: Nazi leaders such as Rudolf Hess and Heinrich Himmler already recognized a kindred spirit in Rudolf Steiner, with his theories about racial purity, esoteric medicine and biodynamic agriculture.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: unfit URL (link) Also search for "Je oren deden zeer van alle quatsch over de superioriteit over het blanke ras". But anyway, just because they have a racialist worldview, it does not mean that Anthroposophists would be malignant racists. I did not find a good way to word this, but it is an essential difference: Anthroposophists are paternalistic racists, not warmongering/oppressive racists. tgeorgescu (talk) 17:57, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

So they're racists but with good intentions? Levivich (talk) 18:00, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

This IP keeps coming back. While most of their edits seem to be genuine some of their edits involves adding false cast members such as retired actress Babita [5]. Here they add three actors that definitely are not in the film: [6].

This weird behavior first started at Gulabi (1995 film). Upon watching the film, all of the cast members in the film are already in the actor but the IP goes on to add [7] more actors. See Talk:Gulabi (1995 film), where User:Archer1234 has been reverting unsourced edits. It is unclear what their motive is as they are making Wikipedia both reliable and unreliable at the same time.

A problematic edit is shown here where they add Bengali actor Tarun Kumar Chaterjee to a film he was definitely not in [8].

The IP should either respond to talk page requests (Archer1234 tried at Gulabi talk page) or stop making false edits. Basically when two people have the same name, IMDb links the popular one even if they didn't appear in the film. I think the IP is sourcing their edits from a database because it is highly unlikely that they have access to every low-key Telugu film.

Here [9] the IP adds a film more than ten years before the actor debuted. There is no way to verify this since the film is not online. The IP has been using different IP addresses but most of them are similar [10]. DareshMohan (talk) 10:19, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

In addition to the lack of communication, the IP does not appear to source any of their edits. And they often (always?) forget to italicize film titles.

These are the IPv6 ranges from which I have seen them operate actively:

• 2A02:842A:1BF:1901:0:0:0:0/64 (block range · block log (global) · WHOIS (partial))
• 2A01:E0A:21:130:0:0:0:0/64 (block range · block log (global) · WHOIS (partial))

Plus this IP4 range:

• 81.65.88.0/21 (block range · block log (global) · WHOIS (partial)) going back to at least August 2023.

They are very prolific, so it will take a lot of effort to scrutinize their edits to separate the wheat from the chaff. It appears that a block on their ranges would have little to no collateral damage.  — Archer1234 (t·c) 13:23, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Some edits cross into Bangladeshi cinema and bring to mind sock Symon Sadik.  — Archer1234 (t·c) 18:39, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Another 19 edits today at 2A02:842A:1BF:1901:3832:5A3C:98AB:172B. None are explained. Some are correcting errors (good), but many are introducing new claims with no sourcing. Here's one of the unsourced ones adding a film to an actor's filmography: [11] (note, as usual, they do not italicize the film name). Still no communication. Can we get a block with the purpose of encouraging them to discuss our concerns with their edits?  — Archer1234 (t·c) 15:08, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Now they have also jumped over to 81.65.93.69. Same MO: unsourced additions to filmographies and film cast lists. All of the IPs used (IPv6 and IPv4) center around the same metropolitan area.  — Archer1234 (t·c) 17:40, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

@Archer1234: I don't think they understand the fact that 2 people can have the same name and 1 of them isn't on Wikipedia. Here they added three films to someone who wasn't in the industry till 2006 and here they added a 1990 film to a man who debuted in 2008. DareshMohan (talk) 06:54, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

After a few days off, they have returned t 2A02:842A:1BF:1901:3832:5A3C:98AB:172B with dozens of unsourced edits and unexplained content removals.

Can we get a short-term block on the /64 to encourage them to

WP:ENGAGE about their editing?  — Archer1234 (t·c

) 19:57, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I've blocked Special:Contributions/2A02:842A:1BF:1901::/64 for two weeks per the above discussion. EdJohnston (talk) 20:13, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi, this IP 2A02:C7C:76BF:E100:61A2:CA8A:722:32EC has been continuously vandalising the page Owen Moxon, could we add this to the list of partial blocks? Thanks 𝑭𝒊𝒍𝒎𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔𝒔 (talk) 23:05, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Three edits to an article with bigger problems - a 6 month /32 block seems an unwieldy and probably excessive solution. I've semi'd the page for a bit (and sent a /64 block message). -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 23:22, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Resolved

 – Blocked for a week by me. Daniel Case (talk) 18:39, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Charmetric (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - New user with a vested interest in removing sourced content from Sikder Group. I have attempted to discuss, with no success. We're getting close to edit war territory here and I could use some intervention from someone with more experience. (User's recent edit summary contains some nasty slander aimed at me, so I need to walk away.) Thank you. Jessicapierce (talk) 16:09, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I reverted it all :) Toketaa^talk 16:02, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! Unfortunately the page is still a mess - I think your reversions didn't go back far enough. Can you take another look? There has been so much back-and-forth, but I think my edit here is the last good version. Thank you so much. Jessicapierce (talk) 16:09, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

yup I forgot that whoopsy! Toketaa^talk 16:21, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

That page history is quite a mess. I've restored an early September version that seems to be stable and in-between periods of large changes. Thank you for recognizing a bad fight and passing up on it when it became personal. @Toketaa I know you are excited to contribute but please try to use the edit summary feature appropriately, especially when reverting things other than obvious vandalism. GabberFlasted (talk) 16:23, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Why isn't this guy blocked for edit warring? 12 Reverts in one day combined with this talk page comment [12]. Fails

As far as 3RR is concerned, remember that An edit or a series of consecutive edits that undoes or manually reverses other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert. and Charmetric's 'undo' actions have occurred in two bursts. But their social behavior does still leave much to be desired. GabberFlasted (talk) 16:27, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the reminder, I now see they did it in 2 bursts (I was looking at their contribution history). I still think it may warrant a

WP:NOTHERE block. WCM_email

17:14, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm unsure whether this is the right place to report personal attacks (rather than content vandalism issues), but I do still need help dealing with this user; please see this addition to my talk page - if you can even read it - in which Charmetric lashes out further, makes various accusations, and demands I be banned. Some help from a grownup would be much appreciated. Jessicapierce (talk)

(EC) Well I left a message on Charmetric's talk page because I had some hope they were here for the right reasons, but they soundly ignored it, and quite emphatically proved me wrong. I reverted their tirade, I hope that's ok Jessicapierce. This is indeed the correct place to report chronic, intractable behavioral problems, and is not actually meant for vandalism itself (or any content dispute really). GabberFlasted (talk) 18:25, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Clearly

WP:PAID

. Just some of the comments:

Spelling mistakes are not mine, so edit warring, personal attacks, only needs a legal threat for a full house. Definitely warrants a block IMHO. WCM_email 18:16, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I have left a final warning for User:Charmetric. They do seem to be quicly exhausting all assumptions of good faith. I am prepared to issue an indef block if they won't withdraw the personal attacks. EdJohnston (talk) 18:21, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you all so much. It's been a while since I ran into anything so heated on Wikipedia - I'm just here to fix commas and alphabetize lists. I hope it goes without saying that I am not, in fact, a fascist (or a "facist"), nor do I have any personal interest in the article. I appreciate the backup, and hope we can all be done dealing with this issue. Jessicapierce (talk) 18:32, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I have now blocked this user for a week. While the user was never warned about 3RR, and at the time Ed said they had not violated it, to me they have since then, and I would also draw the thread's attention to this apparent effort to

log out and make the same edits after reaching three (maybe four) reverts within a few hours, suggesting awareness of the rule. On top of that their general incivility, lack of good faith lean very much toward NOTHERE for me. If the account had been created more recently I would have had no reservations about an indef, and if this behavior continues after the block (assuming they are not the sort of user who will make enough repetitive, abusive and unproductive unblock requests within a short enough period of time as to justify revoking talk access and extending the block), then the next block should be indefinite. Daniel Case (talk

) 18:38, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

IMO the above block is entirely justified. If there is any more trouble, I would suggest an indefinite page block. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:30, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

@Ad Orientem, @EdJohnston, and @Daniel Case, could one of you please remove the edit summary from this diff so the PA attack on Jessicapierce is not immortalized in the article history? If I'm mistaken and this isn't something that can/should be done, my apologies for the needless ping. StartGrammarTime (talk) 04:13, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

@StartGrammarTime  Done -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:28, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

In addition, NoonIcarus does not seem to have learned from their previous sanction regarding block deletions on the United States involvement in regime change article, blanking material and moving the goalposts once more by demanding opinions from users on the inclusion of Venezuela in the article (this same issue has been going on for over 4 years) after other users adequately laid out the scope of the article on the talk page.

A previous

Can you link to a diff/section of the details of NoonIcarus's WP:0RR sanction please? When was this placed, by whom, and has it ever been violated? –Novem Linguae (talk) 02:05, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

@Novem Linguae: You can see this in a previous ANI where the closer says about restrictions placed on NoonIcarus:

essentially, this custom restriction limits [NoonIcarus] to 0RR when they have been reverted, absent consensus, and 1RR otherwise.

This restriction was placed by User:El C in January 2020 for a period of one year. As for if the restrictions were violated, I have not gone back that far as interactions with the user only began within the last year. WMrapids (talk) 02:18, 26 January 2024 (UTC) Edit--WMrapids (talk) 02:22, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

@Novem Linguae: I was careful not to violate the restrictions, asking El C whenever in doubt (1, 2, 3), and later I started being less active in that second half of the year. Kind regards, --NoonIcarus (talk) 14:13, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

 Comment: After reviewing the closing comment from January 2020, I noticed that User:El C notes:

this note by Jamez42 was probably the wrong call. I'm not sure I would call it

canvassing

outright, but it certainly skits its boundaries.

Well, it seems that NoonIcarus did not learn from this warning either and has continued their apparent borderline

 Comment: I'll try to come back later with more time, but SandyGeorgia, who I linked in the last report and was also accused of COI and hounding, offers a good overview: I interpret your posts here as an attempt to intimidate me with "ownership" (with no valid diffs yet), and where you are intimating COI, as you are doing with NoonIcarus with "advocacy", based on your apparent misunderstanding of WP:COI. (User talk:SandyGeorgia/arch120#Ownership edits on Venezuelan topics).

WMrapids wishes to include a section about Venezuela at the United States involvement in regime change article, but another editor challenged this two months ago ([22]), ReyHahn. Last week they started a discussion about scope, asking about threshold and definitions but never about Venezuela, and yet another editor, BobFromBrockley, said that the section should not be included until the discussion is sorted out ([23]). WMrapids clearly doesn't have consensus for the inclusion and omitting this information is deceptive.

I should also warn about not throwing stones, since just this week I also warned the user against blanking ([24]). --NoonIcarus (talk) 04:30, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

NoonIcarus, I will respectively only reply to you once in order to avoid

bludgeoning and another wall of text

.

• I shared concerns with both you and SandyGeorgia about your editing. Other than being frank, it was in no means an act of intimidation as we needed to clear the air at the time following months of disputed edits.
• "another editor challenged this two months ago" Yes. The editor used the same argument ("explain how verbal support is regime change") that you have also been trying to make since 2019 ("neither of them go into depths about any actions (which and how), only intent"). Clarifying this concern about "verbal support" occurred in
  casting aspersions
  and is more evidence that you are taking this personally.
• If we want to talk about omitting information, why did you not provide my rationale on why this information was removed (
  undue and possible conflict of interest) and instead provided your diff accusing me of blanking? Also, why did you omit that a separate user supported my rationale for removing such information?[25][26]

It's clear that you have taken your interactions with me as being personal, which is evidenced by you nominating an article I created for deletion without any rationale, WikiHounding my contributions, placing questionable tags on my edits and now calling me "deceptive". Honestly, you simply stopping this behavior would be enough for me, but given your pattern of ignoring warnings, we are beyond that. WMrapids (talk) 08:43, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

This doesn't explain why you haven't had issues using the same sources in the past (1, 2), other instances of blanking in the article (3) and that the discussions that you refer to actually recommended trimming and not expansion (see this response here). That being said:

Filibustering and hounding by WMrapids

I was really hoping that less interaction with WMrapids would mean less conflict, but it clearly hasn't been the case, so I will be detailing their own disruptive behavior while I have the chance.

There's hardly been any pushing, at least not from my part. While they started editing in 2014 and originally focused mostly in Peruvian topics, last year WMrapids quickly shifted to edit about Venezuelan ones after a move discussion that I started was closed with an outcome they opposed. The move was closed (24 May 2023), and in two hours they start two move requests on articles I have been involved with with the same rationale (1 and 2). I cite an essay I have contributed to in said discussions, and then they proceed to label its listed sources as biased.

"This opposition deputy led an auto theft gang", "this journalist served as a foreign agent", "this political party is a terrorist organization", "these protesters usually strip naked to ask for attention"... with such controversial edits it shouldn't be a surprise that the changes are contested, and cleanup tags have been the only way to prevent edit wars. Case in point, WMrapids violated the 3RR a few days ago at the Guarimba article (4 5 6 7), until I warned them about it. These issues have been broughts up at ANI and the NPOV noticeboard, but remained unanswered: ANI#User:WMrapids and WP:ASPERSIONS, ANI#User:WMrapids (blanking), WP:NPOV/N#Nelson Bocaranda, WP:NPOV/N#Venezuelan opposition and WP:NPOV/N#Guarimba. If I challenge the edits, then it seems that it is "POV-pushing", but if I don't and raise the objection with a tag, then it is "driveby tagging". Either way, any criticism apparently is disruptive editing and the only satisfactory response is not to interfere at all. In other words, the message seems to be: "Do not disagree with me".

This

pointy and contrarian attitude has been ongoing for eight months now, as I will point out later, and it is unbearable. While in the previous thread the editor vaguely accused me of driving away editors, I have pointed out to editors saying that they have unwatched articles because of WMrapids' editing (8), becoming so stressful that it even gives head and stomach aches (9) (and I can say that it has been definitely been very stressful for me too). The bludgeoning against editors that have disagreed with them is common (10 11 12 13 14 15

), and being the only editor that hasn't abandoned editing because of this is only natural that this ANI is filed against me.

There are many issues at hand, but I will focus to detail two LTA patterns: filibustering and hounding. During this time, WMrapids has had the habit to bring back or relitigate settled or old article discussions, coincidentally also nearly all of those where I have participated and some with similar positions to those of editor ZiaLater (talk · contribs · logs). Interaction between both users shows a clear overlap in topics about Peru, Venezuela, and Grand Rapids, Michigan (bear these articles in mind when I detail better the hounding examples below). While sockpuppetering by itself is not forbidden, using multiple accounts to game the consensus certainly is. While it has been too long to demonstrate a connection with a checkuser, a duck test should certainly give a clue:

• 2019 Venezuelan uprising attempt Move to "2019 Venezuelan coup attempt" proposed on 1 May 2019 (supported by ZiaLater), no consensus → Move to "2020 Venezuelan coup d'état attempt" proposed by WMrapids on 24 May 2023, not moved.
• Operation Gideon (2020): Move to "2020 Venezuelan coup d'état attempt" proposed by ZiaLater on 8 May 2020, no consensus → Move to "2020 Venezuelan coup d'état attempt" proposed by WMrapids on 24 May 2023, no consensus (move to "Bay of Piglets Invasion" proposed later on 19 July, procedurally closed).
• Rupununi uprising: Drastic expansion about "Venezuela's involvement" by ZiaLater on 18 January 2020 ([27]) → WMrapids continued reinstating this point of view starting on 25 November 2023 ([28])

Regardless of the original user, those are not the only examples:

WMrapids has also accusing me of hounding in articles where I have already edited, that are on my watchlist, and sometimes even created, failing to see that this says more about them than it does about me. SandyGeorgia also sums it up very good ("#Followup: intimidation, COI, and BLP concerns"): You claim hounding above, based on me editing articles after you that I've edited for almost two decades, and in one case, you even claimed that based on an article I created. And yet, you fail to mention the times you have clearly hounded my edits, and gone right after me to articles I have always edited and you have never edited. Examples include the following (please note how all of these cases happen after 24 May 2023, when the 2022 Peruvian self-coup attempt article move discussion was closed):

If I'm allowed to quote SandyGeorgia one last time, because she has put all this dispute more eloquently than I can:

I want to make sure it is very clear that if these behaviors continue, you should and can expect a very long list of similar incriminating diffs to show shortly at ANI. By "these behaviors" I mean, BLP breaches, continued harassment, continued misrepresentation of diffs, continued hounding of me to articles I edit, and continued persecution of NoonIcarus along with your busted AGF-ometer which leads to the aforementioned onslaught of aspersions that made me unwatch a page you followed me to. I don't mind cleaning up your POV edits, as that's part of the process, and it's clear you don't yet recognize how deep your POV and your failure to consult best sources are. Please make no mistake that my politeness or patience with you do not mean I am willing to let these serious behaviors go on indefinitely. Yes, a fresh start would be good and I am willing to continue being patient, but my patience is not unlimited. (9 November 2023)
— User:SandyGeorgia

I'm truly sorry for the long text, but it was necessary to condense the disruptive behavior. If there's any troublesome behavior that has not changed, it is clearly WMrapids', and at this point probably only administrative intervention will solve this. At the very least, an admonishment should be considered. --NoonIcarus (talk) 11:48, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

• Neither editor is doing themselves any favours with wall of text presentations of content disputes.

BUT: I am also concerned about Noonicarus' edits on Venezuelan and Latin American articles. In particular Noonicarus is terrible at identifying/evaluating sources, and engages in tag-bombing as a first resort. In a recent edit they removed or tagged text cited to peer-reviewed scholarly articles 1, largely because they did not like the information that was sourced to them. Upon doing this they stated: Last but not least, as with other disputed edits, the content largely depends on English language academic papers, instead to mainstream media outlets, which suggests that the majority points of view are currently not being reflected. If we take this at face value, this is a bizarre statement for en experienced editor.

Similarly, when I suggested that claims from a report commissioned by the OAS, an organisation which has a political position and a recent history of making false statements on politics, should only be included if attributed, their response was: Please see the comments above about addressing the substance instead of the character. In other words, are there facts stated that should be questioned? Why? ... You might also want to take a look at WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS.

Noonicarus is a productive editor but their commitment to ensuring their political point of view predominates in Venezuela articles risks them entering an ANI death spiral. What is to be done?

Boynamedsue(talk) 20:24, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Here we go again

I haven't edited in this topic area. My involvement was that I began mediating a dispute at

But here were are again. I think that some sanction is needed, or we will continue hearing these conduct disputes between these editors every few weeks. Has anyone reviewed their edits carefully to verify which of them is enough at fault to warrant a

• Support as proposer. Robert McClenon (talk) 04:39, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
• I would support an interaction ban but would also recommend a Venezuelan politics ban for Noonicarus. There has been bad behaviour on his side here.Boynamedsue (talk) 08:28, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
  •  Comment: Boynamedsue became involved after I posted in the reliable sources noticeboard a week ago asking about the reliability of the Organization of American States (WP:RS/N#(OAS) Panel of Independent International Experts). The discussion afterwards can be found at Talk:Guarimba#Pejorative term. --NoonIcarus (talk) 11:08, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion is over behaviour not content, and my use of the first person above already makes the fact we have had past contact clear. Since you mention it, you took this to RSN, then when you didn't like the answer you were given you chose to ignore it. Again this shows your problematic behaviour with regards to Venezuelan politics. I don't think this is deliberate, but unfortunately your strong pro-opposition beliefs are pushing you into

WP:COMPETENCE territory here if you can't even accept mild suggestions like "attribute this" or accept scholarly articles are valid when you don't like what they say. --Boynamedsue (talk

) 11:48, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

RSN on 22 January and posted an RFC, but the RFC will run until 21 February, and has received very little feedback so far. Is your issue that NoonIcarus asked for comments and then went ahead as if the comments that haven't come in yet agreed with them? Robert McClenon (talk

) 18:05, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

To be fair, I'm not entirely au fait with the rules of RfC's. I was reading the RSN post as a general request for others input rather than a vote intended to validate their viewpoint. As I read it there is consensus on the talkpage for text they want with attribution, but they seem intent on dragging on discussion on in two forums and making personal attacks as they do it.--Boynamedsue (talk) 20:19, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

You should provide diffs if you accuse me of personal attacks, Boynamedsue. I posted an RFC based on this constested edit that I made: [36]. I have not reinstated said content afterwards, and I'm not opposed to it being attributed. -- NoonIcarus (talk) 23:29, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

I have already provided a diff of the personal attack, and that edit is absolutely not the subject of the RfC as there is no link or reference to it on the RfC. An RfC for that edit would be well beyond the scope of RSN. The recent edits on the talkpage only discuss whether the claim that Gaurimba is a pejorative term can be sourced, not the particulars of the above edit which would involve questions of detail, levels of attribution and relevance per

WP:DUE.Boynamedsue (talk

) 23:53, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

• @Robert McClenon: Is it possible as an involved user in the dispute to support this? While I feel that reviewing the edits is really important, I think this measure would definitely help with the situation (and is a measure that I would voluntarily agree to). --NoonIcarus (talk) 10:26, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Proposing topic ban for WMrapids. Patterns such as edit warring and blanking have continued even after repeated warnings ([37][38][39][40][41][42][43][44][45]) and reports at this ANI ("WMrapids and WP:ASPERSIONS" (August 2023), "WMrapids (blanking)" (November 2023)), and the diffs I provided above show that the editor has already had the same issues with several other editors in the past (1 2 3 3 4 5). The repeated changes without consensus, even weeks or months after first disputed and as recently as today ([46]), demonstrate either an unwillingness or inability to work collaboratively in the project, and a topic ban would be a step towards a solution. --NoonIcarus (talk) 04:41, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

• As mentioned above, I suggested a one-year topic ban on all political articles in the previous ANI, though a more targeted topic ban on Venezuelan politics is necessary as suggested by
  WP:BADPOV editing) and I would not be able to comment on the disputed information or even report potential misbehavior to other users, creating a false consensus. With this gaming behavior, there is also a high probability of retroactive editing disputes (adding/removing information previously placed/removed by either of us), which would only prolong disruptions on such contentious Venezuelan topics. Because of NoonIcarus' activist editing history, evidenced by their years of gaming the system and performing BADPOV edits, my support of an interaction ban (if even possible) would be conditional on the implementation of a topic ban on Venezuelan politics as this is the primary concern here.--WMrapids (talk
  ) 03:41, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

• 85.107.101.23/20 (block range · block log (global) · WHOIS (partial))

Someone from Turkey has been changing the height parameter in dozens of biographies without citing a source. Some of the subjects are alive, so

Blocked range for a month. Johnuniq (talk) 01:09, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I found four more ranges of Turkish IPs doing the same thing over the same time period: Special:Contributions/5.24.128.0/21,[48] Special:Contributions/46.154.48.0/20,[49] Special:Contributions/88.230.32.0/20[50] and Special:Contributions/46.154.176.0/20.[51] Can we block these, too? Binksternet (talk) 04:38, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

And two more: Special:Contributions/88.241.176.0/20.[52] and Special:Contributions/31.142.64.0/19.[53] This person gets around. Binksternet (talk) 04:53, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for working on that. I blocked all those for 3 months. Johnuniq (talk) 05:30, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Was redirected here by an experienced editor. Editor Potatín5 has been consistently reverting my research based claims, often deleting them completely. Not working to compromise and consensus, just deleting. What steps can be taken?

A few examples:

Josiah Omrides Ten Commandments IncandescentBliss (talk) 01:54, 31 January 2024 (UTC)