Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1046

Also his edit of removing reference to his Syrian ancestry has been challenged by two other editors. #[69] and #[70], despite that he keeps reverting to his POV. George Al-Shami (talk) 04:21, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

George Al-Shami Fails to understand that just because someone comes from x country (which is the same as arriving from/immigrated from) it doesnt necesarily means the person is of x ancestry. There is no primary source out there where Paul Anka himself claims he is of Syrian ANCESTRY. In his autobriography he claimed both his parents where of Lebanese descent and the radio interview and he was Lebanese/of Lebanese ancestry and never said they were of Syrian ancestry nor that he had Syrian ancestry.

George Al-Shami is trying to word things and change the format to imply as if Anka is of Syrian ancestry and to make the reader believe "he tried to say he was of Syrian ancestry he just didnt quite say it but look guys he said this here so he must be of Syrian ancestry"

His paternal grandparents lived in Bab Touma, Damascus before emigrating to America but Anka states his parents were both of Lebanese ancestry in his biography and that he is Lebanese/of Lebanese ancestry in his radio interview which means that his paternal grandparents must have been of Lebanese ancestry and happened to live in Bab Touma, Damascus before emigrating. A similar case happened with Neil Sedaka, whose paternal grandparents were of Lebanese-Jewish descent but were living in Istanbul, Turkey before emigrating to America.

In the case of Najeeb Halaby, his father was born in Zahle (today Lebanon) and lived there briefly before emigrating with Najeeb's grandfather as a child to America. Henry Louis Gates says that it is uncertain if Najeeb's grandfather (who was living in Damascus in his later years where he worked as a magistrate) was from Aleppo, Zahle, Beirut or Damascus according to the genealogy research Gates did on Queen Noor, but user Al-Shami wants to state Najeeb's grandfather was fro Aleppo as if it is a proven fact. Yes, Najeeb himself said his grandfather came from Aleppo in his autobiography but this was put into question by the reputable genealogist Gates so that should be stated as a secondary source.Chris O' Hare (talk) 12:15, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

According to George Al-Shami "In the memoir source My Way: An Autobiography, Anka recounted My parents were of Lebanese Christian descent and the name Anka itself had an almost folkloric history attached to it. It means noose in "Arabic" and it came about in this way: In a small town in Syria called Bab Tuma -where my ancestors are from- a man raped a young girl of thirteen.[1]; Chris wants to keep the first part which mentions Anka's Lebanese ancestry, but keeps removing the second part "In a small town in Syria called Bab Tuma -where my ancestors are from", because it goes against his pov. In our month-long discussion I mentioned to him that to stay NPOV, both parts have to be mentioned. However he changes this direct quote "In a small town in Syria called Bab Tuma -where my ancestors are from" into "his father came to America from Syria" to deny Anka of any Syrian ancestry. The mention of Syrian ancestry is backed up by the Life magazine source. [2].

As you can see, again, even in his counter-arguments this user is

Can an administrator please sanction this disruptive user so I dont lose complete trust in the administration of Wikipedia and start losing hope in the direction in which Wikipedia might be heading if these kind of behaviors are accepted here.Chris O' Hare (talk) 13:14, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

THIS. IS. A. CONTENT. DISPUTE. If the both of you stopped talking past each other and actually had a good-faith discussion, instead of running to AN/I (you) or wikipedia-en-help (Al-Shami) to try and win the dispute by default, this wouldn't be an issue. —A little blue Bori v^_^v ^{Hasteur Hasteur Ha-- oh....} 18:04, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Chris O' Hare. You say that "the highest quality most reliable non-biased source that can be added to a bio article which is his/her autobiography" and "most relevant source in a bio article which is the autobiography of the person". That isn't true. While I don't know about Halaby, in general people are biased, see Autobiographies lie -- or anyway lots of them do Self-interest: Since fabrications and exaggerations abound, they have little in common with biographies. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 18:36, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

We tried A little blue Bori v^_^v for a month, but it didn't go anywhere. I've pinged two uninvolved editors on the talk page of the article to help settle this dispute, @Slatersteven: and @Boing! said Zebedee:; anybody else is welcome to provide their input on the talk page. George Al-Shami (talk) 19:27, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

A little blue Bori v^_^v you say this a content dispute but ignore all the violations of Wikipedia's guidelines that user Al-Shami has breached? Its impossible to reach a consensus with a disruptive user that has resorted to vandalism as his first "attempt" at pushing his POV.

CambridgeBayWeather autobiographies are still considered as THE primary source along with oral and video interviews. Unless a reputable academic or author such as genealogist Henry Louis Gates comes in and disputes this and or adds that through independent research it was found that his father was indeed of Syrian ancestry not just lived in Damascus before settling in America then we have to stick to what Anka himself has said about the ancestry of his parents.Chris O' Hare (talk) 22:21, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Is it really that hard to believe that someone named "Halaby" would have some sort of connection to, you know, Halab? ]M Imtiaz (talk · contribs) 23:07, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Look it's simple. If you keep making false accusations of vandalism, your complaint is likely to be ignored at best, at worst you will be blocked. And few of us give a flying flip if someone's edit's allegedly violate some association's guidelines. Bringing up such irrelevant stuff at ANI further discredits any legitimate complaint you may have. Nil Einne (talk) 05:12, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Its a content dispute drop it or bet a peice of Australia thrown at you.Slatersteven (talk) 08:42, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

M Imtiaz If you do some research on this before assuming anything. In fact this whole thing started with me presenting some of that research here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Najeeb_Halaby#Najeeb_Halaby_Lebanese_Origins which is backed up by the research done by american genealogist Henry Louis Gates on this same topic as you can read here https://books.google.se/books?id=meYbj1E6Ki8C&pg=PA65&lpg=PA65&dq=Almas+Mallouk+Halaby&source=bl&ots=rFkkzjZFO4&sig=ACfU3U3hlqMIm1wobTTCA4erRHx_BTcK9A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwij6KK667PoAhXPwosKHYUUDyEQ6AEwAnoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Almas%20Mallouk%20Halaby&f=false Chris O' Hare (talk) 13:48, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Nil Einne How come I see you warning me (twice here and one on my talk page) about what according to you is a mislabeling of a policy violation but I dont see you warning George Al-Shami after all the violations he has breached with his 10+ disruptive edits? I find your behavior a bit one-sided which makes you less credible as a mediator in this dispute. Because you are not showning independent judgement and not enforcing warnings equally you are exhibiting tag-teamish and meat-puppet like behavior and I will be reporting you on this if you continue to do so in this dispute as per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppetry#Meatpuppetry and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tag_team

George Al-Shami is an experienced user and should have known better when he resorted to delete the autobiography source of Najeeb Halaby in his first or one of his first disruptive edits that started this whole dispute that has carried on along 3 different articles as you can see here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Najeeb_Halaby#Najeeb_Halaby_Lebanese_Origins.

How is deleting the most primary of all sources from an autobiography not an act of vandalism? How is that "done in good faith in trying to improve Wikipedia"? Removing encyclopedic content without any reason is vandalism as per VANDTYPESk. If Al-Shami didnt like how I phrased what the source said he could have rephrased it but instead he chose to remove the source along with my edit as you can see here https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Najeeb_Halaby&diff=959107360&oldid=958996232

Al-Shami later admited his wrongdoing and apologized for this eventhough he accusses me of having an agenda and pushing a POV while he admits his wrongdoing as you can see in 5th sentence of the 4th message in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Paul_Anka where he states "For the Halaby article, I admit I was wrong to remove the legitimate source you employed, the memoir, because I balked and was disappointed at what I clearly saw was an agenda on your part in that you use the line that you liked and then you ignored the line that you didn't like or that didn't subscribe to your POV"Chris O' Hare (talk) 13:48, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

A reason was given in the edit summary. Articles are not intended to be collections of sources. If someone is removing some info because it misrepresents the source and the source is therefore no longer needed, as was claimed in the edit summary, then that is a legitimate reason. AFAICT, George Al-Shami has agreed they made a mistake. They have never said they engaged in vandalism. Making a mistake when editing doesn't turn an edit into vandalism. And removing content rather than rephrasing is extremely common editing. It's not always the best behaviour, but it's clearly not vandalism. And why do you keep insisting it's the "primary of all sources"? It's an autobiography. As you have already been told, it's over very limited use. If it's the only source on the subject, the article should be deleted. You need to find reliable secondary sources, not poor ones like autobiographies. Finally I have not warned George Al-Shami because I have seen zero examples of clearly bad behaviour from them. I have seen a clear example of bad behaviour from you namely a

persistent personal attack. I have no idea why you keep destroying your case by calling something vandalism when it isn't. As I have told you many times, vandalism is not the only bad behaviour on Wikipedia. If you would actual outline what the problem with the editing rather than falsely claiming it is vandalism, maybe people would actually care. Whether this is because there is no significant problem with George Al-Shami's editing, or it's simply an inability on your part to articulate what the problem is, I have no idea. I don't really care any more. I won't be re-visiting this case, but if you come to ANI in the future and make false accusations of vandalism again, I will support a block. Nil Einne (talk

) 14:37, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Its not just "not always the best behavior", its a violation of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Editing_policy#Try_to_fix_problems and an experienced user such as Al-Shami should know its disruptive behavior. Because he is experienced I felt his edit didnt come from good faith but out of anger because it went against his POV hence the reason for me labeling incorrectly as vandalism. I dont think it would have mattered if I had label it correctly due to your clearly impartial one sided take on this dispute which I will be reporting you on.

"And why do you keep insisting it's the "primary of all sources"? It's an autobiography. As you have already been told, it's over very limited use. If it's the only source on the subject, the article should be deleted. You need to find reliable secondary sources, not poor ones like autobiographies".

As per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_source "In the study of history as an academic discipline, a primary source (also called an original source) is an artifact, document, diary, manuscript, autobiography, recording, or any other source of information that was created at the time under study. It serves as an original source of information about the topic. In journalism, a primary source can be a person with direct knowledge of a situation, or a document written by such a person"

As per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research#Primary "Any interpretation of primary source material (which includes synthesis) requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation"

Since there is no reliable secondary source such as an independent academic review from a reputable genealogist such as Henry Louis Gates, the autobiography and the oral/video recording of Paul Anka become the main sources in this until a reputable secondary source debates or questions it.

"Finally I have not warned George Al-Shami because I have seen zero examples of clearly bad behavior from them. I have seen a clear example of bad behavior from you namely a persistent personal attack. Whether this is because there is no significant problem with George Al-Shami's editing, or it's simply an inability on your part to articulate what the problem is, I have no idea. I don't really care any more. I won't be re-visiting this case, but if you come to ANI in the future and make false accusations of vandalism again, I will support a block".

I came here to ANI to report an user that has wikihounded me, committed 10+ disruptions, accused me of having an agenda, disappears from consensus only to come back to edit again as he pleases and you say you see zero examples of bad behavior and instead accuse me of persistent personal attack without any evidence of that and keep focusing on my mislabeling a violation?

I told you stop exhibiting tag-teamish and meat-puppet like behavior. Since you decided to continue with it I will be reporting you.Chris O' Hare (talk) 18:04, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

I had a message banner at the top of my screen when I entered Wikipedia today. It said that some administrator called Xdamr had reverted some imaginary edit that I supposedly made to the article on Prometheus, due to it being considered vandalism. I have made no such edit, and have made no edits to Wikipedia in any article. It appears that the message reached me through my IP address, since I am not logged into any account. If any edit was made, it wasn't by me, and I would appreciate not being accused of being a vandal. I just spent twenty minutes looking through what might be the clunkiest menu system in the world to get to this page to post this somewhere, *anywhere* on this damn site so that whoever is running it can see the problem and, hopefully, unfuck it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6C52:6900:2E0:9D58:4C6E:19CA:A837 (talk) 20:14, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

You are evidently using a different IP address now; IP addresses can be used by different people both on the same device and different devices. If you don't recall making the edit the warning was for, then you didn't. You should create an account so your contributions are your own and you won't get messages intended for others. 331dot (talk) 20:21, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Xdamr has made 3 logged actions in the past decade; this must be something ancient. This is also the first edit from the IPV6 editor's /64, so the warning must have been for some other IP.

π, ν

) 20:30, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

For what it's worth, almost certainly User talk:71.9.135.235 and Xdamr's revert (March 2007). Both IPs geolocate to Redding, CA. --DB1729 (talk) 21:08, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

This account broke

• Maxim.il89 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Talk:Chris Mullin (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

I warned Maxim.il89 about

The canvassing timeline is as follows:

1. 00:39, 22 August: Maxim.il89 nominates the RM [71]
2. 00:46–00:58 Maxim.il89 canvasses talk pages of 7 users who have previously expressed support for the move or are editors of the British politican's page, Chris Mullin (politician) [72] Representative non-neutral message here
3. 13:47, 23 August: Maxim.il89 warned on their talk page about canvassing [73]
4. 19:39–19:44: Maxim.il89 canvasses 10 WikiProjects with ties to the British politician 23 August 2020[74] Representative non-neutral message touting the Brit's accomplishments here
5. 20:01–20:42: Another editor, Rikster2, addressses Maxim.il89's imbalanced notifications by notifying WikiProjects listed on the basketball player's talk page[75] Rikster2 discloses these notifications on the RM thread [76] Representative neutral notification here
6. 07:43, 24 August: Maxim.il89 falsely accuses Rikster2 of canvassing Pot, meet kettle. You said how you'd list it on the basketball and NBA pages, which you now have... and you dare to accuse me of not being neutral? [77]
7. 07:48: Maxim.il89 notifies another project [78]

Other editor's have warned Maxim.il89 on their talk page that they are canvassing and being disruptive, but Maxim.il89 does not listen.[79]

Maxim.il89 needs to stop canvassing and

• (non-admin comment) I was one of those canvassed, and had been thinking of arguing strongly in support. The scheme may have
  WP:BACKFIREd, because I've now posted a neutral comment of general relevance instead. Narky Blert (talk
  ) 12:32, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
  • Thanks, but the canvassing I'm reporting is independent of the merits of the RM discussion.—Bagumba (talk) 13:32, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
    • Sure ;-) Maxim.il89 (talk) 19:30, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
• First of all, I wasn't "canvassing" - I invited people who had previously taken part in the debate.
• Secondly, I've just become active on Wikipedia (like, properly), and didn't know those canvassing rules - after being notified, I've changed the formulation significantly when posting about the topics in various connected WikiProjects.
• Thirdly, Bagumba is a basketball fan, a member of WikiProject basketball, and he isn't neutral on the topic. I feel like his [over]reaction is more to do with him being personally insulted that I've dared to argue that the whole world doesn't obsess about basketball and doesn't know this basketball player.
• I must admit, I giggled when I found out someone with Bagumba's attitude is an admin. He's far from neutral or fair, in my opinion. Maxim.il89 (talk) 13:38, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

  In future if you want people to participate in/reply to a discussion, just ping them. Giraffer (munch) 14:24, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

  • Thank you, but how do you pink someone? What is a ping? That's great if there's a way to invite people without having to type a message! Maxim.il89 (talk) 19:26, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

  Two key points. Even if you the way you select people to notify is perfectly fine, you are still required to use a neutral message. Please re-read the canvassing guidelines since they are clear on this.

  But also, the claim that "I wasn't "canvassing" - I invited people who had previously taken part in the debate" seem to be incorrect. Notifying all participants of previous discussions is generally okay provided you invite all. The only acceptable exceptions would be anyone not welcome to participate i.e. indefed or banned, and cases where notification isn't necessary (those who are already taking part). Selective notifying participants who support your PoV is not okay and once again the canvassing guidelines make this clear. Frankly you don't need to read them figure out that if you only invite those you share your PoV, you're canvassing.

  I had a quick look at Talk:Chris Mullin#Requested move 15 May 2019 along with the link above [80] and can see that you did not seem to invite anyone who supported the move, but you did invite allsome of those who opposed. I checked one of these User:PC78 and they did not participate until well after your notifications [81] (their last contribution to the talk page was with the previous move request). I suspect the main reason they are there is because User:Rikster2 seems to have fixed your selective notifications [82].

  Note that I'm very far from a basketball fan and frankly don't care to look into the details of that move to comment. So this has zero to do with any personal concern about the content/title issue but instead your behaviour which looks fairly bad.

  Nil Einne (talk) 16:03, 24 August 2020 (UTC) 16:44, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

  • Well, I didn't know about the canvassing and neutrality laws, isn't it obvious? I'd never invited people to a discussion about.
  • However, you seem to be OK with the guy who posted it in the basketball WikiProject and not the ones involving politics. I mean, that's not really neutral.
  • I didn't just invite those who had participated in the previous one and I never said that, I said I also invited those who have a history of editing those pages. Maxim.il89 (talk) 19:26, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
    • The basketball Wikiproject notifications only happened after you notified a bunch of other Wikiprojects but not the the basketball ones. You seem to have acknowledged this below but are claiming that the editor planned to notify the basketball ones. Except they never said that and regardless, since you were the first one to selectively notify Wikiprojects you are going to come across as worse. And I think you've misunderstood my key point. It seems clear you selectively notified people who you believed shared your point of view. That was wrong, end of story. It doesn't matter how you figured this out. Don't do it again. Nil Einne (talk) 20:41, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
• Let's add personal attacks to the list too. See [83].
  -- Calidum
  14:41, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
  • You didn't have to link anything, he did it again in this discussion above (his 4th bullet). Rikster2 (talk) 16:14, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
  • Don't you think "attack" is a harsh word for a bit of sarcasm and banter? What exactly are the rules on that? Maxim.il89 (talk) 19:26, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
• The targeted nature of the notices (directed only to those voting his way in prior discussion) and the non-neutral content (advocating for a particular outcome) make this a clear violation. Further, the refusal to accept or acknowledge the concerns after being notified by multiple parties suggests some sort of sanction (perhaps a 24 hour block) is needed. Cbl62 (talk) 17:29, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
  • Well, I made it clear I didn't know those rules then... and I changed the message formulation for those I invited afterwards on WikiProjects. However, if blocking people excites you, whatever. Maxim.il89 (talk) 19:26, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

  (nac) I have CANVASSed discussions; by trying to post neutral invitations on WikiProject pages, and to notify every editor I can find from earlier discussions. Selective partisan canvassing is likely to awake my inner contrarian. It hacks me off, and may get the opposite of the desired result. Narky Blert (talk) 19:02, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

• The diffs in this report show clear canvassing and personal attacks (plus there's the one in this thread above). I agree with CBL, there seems to be no acknowledgment of the problem. I'm not sure a 24hr block would make a difference. A tban seems like too much paperwork and a full indef seems like overkill. Perhaps an indef partial block from the article as an ordinary admin action. Lev!vich 18:43, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
  • Well, you need to work on your reading comprehension. I've clearly stated how after being notified about the canvassing rules I changed my formulation (see what I wrote in the relevant WikiProjects for evidence). Honestly, too many people here get a thrill from blocking people. Maxim.il89 (talk) 19:26, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Comment Sorry for the harsh words, but I remember someone telling me too many admins on Wikipedia have their whole lives revolving around the website and get the thrill of their lives from blocking people... and I see it's true, from those proposing to block me LOL. Here's a fact, once someone notified me of the rules about canvassing, I made sure to change the formulation I was using, which is visible in the neutral formulation I used in the various WikiProjects I posted it on, so that kinda shows how I made sure to apply the rules the moment I was notified about them.

Issue number 2 is this, I was accused of attacking people or insulting people... what?! Get out of the house, people. There's a massive difference between being sarcastic and insulting people. I've never used a swear word against anyone here, never humiliated anyone... I use sarcasm, well, tough luck. People do seem to get a thrill here from blowing things out of proportion and coming up with silly "punishments."

Got it, you're not allowed to state your view when inviting people to a discussion... great, I applied that the moment I was informed about it.

The guy who posted this literally used the fact I said to someone "Pot, meet kettle" as an example of me being insulting. I mean, if that's his idea of "insults," he must've been crying a lot at school, because clearly he has a very wide definition to what "insulting" actually means - it was a response to someone who posted about this discussion in the basketball WikiProject, but for some reason didn't post it in the political ones... and then had the audacity of accusing me of posting it only in the political WikiProjects (which is actually true... because he stated he'd post it in the basketball ones, so that was only a matter of balancing it out). Maxim.il89 (talk) 19:34, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Actually, he didn't say you insulted me. He said you accused me of canvassing, which you did. However, that was not correct as I actually didn't inform anyone until you'd engaged in biased canvassing and I felt like I needed to "unbias" it by informing other interested parties and projects that you chose not to notify. I also used neutral notices at project and user pages. So I did not in any way canvas the discussion, as you did. Also, you are still

Wikipedia:BLUDGEONing the discussion over there. Nobody needs to hear your case for why the basketball player isn't the primary topic in your eyes - you have made the same point or two at least 10-15 times. Just let the discussion happen - some people are going to agree with you and some won't and then some poor admin will need to come in and make a determination of what to do. Rikster2 (talk

) 20:00, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Well, I used neutral notices as well after being informed of the canvasing views, so here we go... I've learnt from it, I hope you have as well. A short look at my contribution shows I had never been involved in moving pages, WikiProject talk pages, or debates prior to that. It was a new thing, I didn't know the rules, now I do.

On the plus side, the previous debate on the page move was a joke. Did it even get to 10 people? No each opinion by itself has more than 10 people taking part in it, and this is what it's all about, getting people involved.

I've learned the rule on this one, great.

I do feel like people, on both of the discussion, don't bother reading what others have to say, which is a shame. Not in the sense of changing their views, but in the sense of becoming more informed. Maxim.il89 (talk) 20:23, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

You were informed here 14:36/39, 23 August 2020 of the requirement for neutral notifications. Instead of trying to understand what the problem was you said "agree to disagree" at 14:57. You were further implored to reconsider at 15:13 but again largely ignored the concerns in your follow up at at 19:34. Despite that, you continued to leave non neutral notifications between 19:39 at 19:44, 23 August 2020.

Maybe your second set of notifications weren't quite as bad as your first, but they were still clearly not neutral. If you did not understand this, that illustrates the problem with your approach. If you have talked to the people who had approached you about your proposed message, they likely would have told you it was still a problem. Alternatively you could have asked at the

WP:Helpdesk. Or you could have just followed the proposal you'd already been given. Instead you largely ignored any attempts to help you and so still made non neutral notification.

Also for someone who is faulting others reading comprehension, you seem to have problems with that yourself. AFAICT, no one ever said they would post to the basketball Wikiprojects. Rikster2 did make an IMO unhelpful joke in the circumstances [84]. They later followed that up with a vague and (and again IMO) unhelpful comment [85] which also can't reasonably be taken as a concrete plan to post on the basketball Wikiprojects. They did eventually post on the basketball Wikiprojects but only after you had posted on a bunch of politics and UK ones. The whole situation is a mess, but it's difficult to escape the obvious conclusion that you seem to the the primary contributor since you were always the one to initiate notification first and every time did it non neutrally.

Even if you genuinely believed Rikster2 had a plan to notify the basket ball wikiprojects, your best solution was to talk to them about it and try and come with a combined list of Wikiprojects both basketball and sports and UK or politics related that you agreed should be notified. Your second best solution was to either wait until Rikster2 really only notified basketball wikiprojects and notify those politics and UK ones you felt they missed, or come up by yourself with a list of basketball and politics and UK wikiprojects and notify them all neutrally rather than only notifying politics and UK ones. The worst option which you chose was to preemptively notify only the non basketball and sports Wikiprojects.

Nil Einne (talk

) 20:41, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Hold on. If you want to call my joking about notifying the WP “unhelpful” so be it, but it was in response to canvassing that had already had happened and was trying to draw a parallel to what canvassing would look like in terms I thought would be clearly understood. I explicitly said “if I were that kind of guy” at the end - any reasonable person should have realized that meant I had not done so and didn’t plan to (or at a minimum anyone concerned about it could have taken two seconds to verify if any notices had been placed at those project Talk pages before acting). There isn’t a thing wrong with my second comment. Which came after this user was trying to accuse me of canvassing to justify his own actions. I am not the issue here and it would be great if the admins who monitor this board would do something to curtail the

WP:BLUDGEONing by this user, which continues at the RM (and will continue in this discussion I am sure) and is the primary issue now. Rikster2 (talk

) 21:01, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Maxim.il89, when you say about another editor, especially an administrator, He's far from neutral or fair, in my opinion, and you do not back that up with links to diffs, that is a personal attack. Hiding behind "in my opinion" does not protect you. You would do well to listen to the gentle feedback being given to you here. This is not a grade school playground; sarcasm and unfounded accusations are not part of the normal back and forth among editors who do not know each other well. When what you think of as "banter" is being identified by the community as harmful, it is you, not the community, who needs to modify their behavior. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:46, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Another personal attack

I meant something very simple - with new members, it's good to introduce them to the rules rather than go on a power trip and start sending threats of block.

I'm new here in terms of page moves and discussions, and when I am informed of the rules, obviously I abide by them. If I had known about the rules on how to invite people and who to invite to discussions, I would've followed the rules.

You seem to enjoy running to the admin noticeboard rather than actually discuss with people.

For example, I've just had a very constructive discussion with Nil Einne and find that I've learnt a lot of new information on how to go about such things (and how to not go about such things) in the future, or to be precise, to pink everyone involved in the previous discussion... and use template messages to avoid bias and stuff.

Yes, this won't allow you to flaunt you're an admin ;-) But it will get better results and communication. Maxim.il89 (talk) 12:23, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

I suggest you strike that entire statement, Maxim, because it's taunting and bordering on

a personal attack. Not a good look. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite

16:19, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

OK, if no actions are going to be taken with the editor, could I ask an uninvolved admin to come and make a decision on the page move recommendation at Talk:Chris Mullin? There are close to 40 !votes and the discussion is getting repetitive. Thanks. Rikster2 (talk) 20:27, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Those are not "votes" but opinions. From what I've understood, it's not decided by a vote count. Maxim.il89 (talk) 20:23, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes, Rikster2 said "

!vote", which also means there is no accepted reason to repeat the same opinion as if it were a vote or to persuade each opponent to change their !vote.—Bagumba (talk

) 02:14, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes, the resulting 40 formal !votes and lots of interspersed commentary likely made that unsuitable for

WP:RMNAC.—Bagumba (talk

) 01:05, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

• Laeliza23 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

User Laeliza was warned a few days ago to Please (1) add proper English-language captions to images when adding them to articles, instead of copying meaningless filenames; (2) learn how to properly add images to infoboxes, and check after each edit that you haven't broken the template code, but they're still breaking infoboxes ([87] [88]) and leaving meaningless captions (essentially all their recent edits). How have we been dealing with these users? Are we fine with mass-rollbacking all their #WPWP edits, including any possibly good ones, since so many are terrible? Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 21:48, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

And now they've continued, in spite of being notified of this discussion. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 21:57, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

They added a pic of Neil Patrick Harris to the infobox of an article about Peng Qui,a fictional character from Chinese literature?! [89] If there is a connection, it isnt mentioned anywhere in the article. Curdle (talk) 22:34, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Too many of their edits have problems -- either breaking templates or having meaningless captions. I think a block to force them to engage with the community may be called for.

π, ν

) 22:44, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

I'll leave her a message. If she doesn't repond, I can do a partial block that stops her from editing mainspace. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 01:33, 31 August 2020 (UTC)