Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/November 2017

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Nominator's comments: Referencing looks pretty good, this shouldn't be too far away. Pawnkingthree (talk) 20:40, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply

Nominator's comments: Very sad news. Article is already GA, and is very well-referenced. Notecardforfree (talk) 08:18, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply

Nominator's comments: Famous Egyptian actress, but most of the article is unsourced. I'll probably work something out within the next few hours. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 17:45, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply

The nominated event is listed on

WT:ITN regarding whether this should be posted when Hamilton's lead became unassailable, or when the season actually ended. Consensus was for the latter, which has now happened. Unfortunately the main article has no prose on the course of the season itself, with everything hived off to separate articles on each race (of varying quality). The 2016 article had an extensive 'season report' section. At least a couple of paragraphs of prose summary will be required before this is postable. Modest Genius ^talk 13:54, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply

]

• Support Prose notwithstanding, this article is good enough to post. GCG (talk) 16:28, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak oppose for now. Article quality seems fine to me, except that unfortunately it seemingly still doesn't meet nominator Modest Genius's own stated quality requirement above: "The 2016 article had an extensive 'season report' section. At least a couple of paragraphs of prose summary will be required before this is postable." (Incidentally, there are also good season reports for 2015 and 2014, and, for all I know, quite likely for earlier seasons as well).Tlhslobus (talk) 01:44, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: As I'm not competent to supply the seemingly required paragraphs, I've asked for some competent editor to do so at the article's Talk page (
  Talk:2017_FIA_Formula_One_World_Championship#Season_Report_arguably_needed_for_ITN_.28In_The_News.29). Tlhslobus (talk) 02:01, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Oppose: while the championship finished a week ago, Hamilton won the drivers' title a month ago and Mercedes the teams' title a week before that. I'd hardly say this qualifies as being "in the news". (Also, I usually do most of the season reports, but I didn't do it this year becauae I've been working on other projects.) Prisonermonkeys (talk) 04:19, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:ITNSPORTS specifically applies to the conclusion of the event or series. As such notability is not in doubt, it's just a matter of whether the article is of sufficient quality. Modest Genius ^talk 11:38, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply
    ]

[Posted] 105th Grey Cup

Article: 105th Grey Cup (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Canadian football, the Toronto Argonauts defeat the Calgary Stampeders to win the 105th Grey Cup. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Canadian football, the CFL season concludes with the Toronto Argonauts winning the Grey Cup
News source(s): [2],[3]
Credits:

• Nominated by Plasma Twa 2 (talk · give credit)

The nominated event is listed on

WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: ITNR. Game summary has been added, not sure if it is good to go or if people will look for something else to be added or not. --PlasmaTwa2

• Support pretty good article. Match summary feels thin on refs, but one of them is a play-by-play published by the CFL so I'll live with it. Sorry, I just can't read sports summaries, they're worse than tech manuals for me. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 12:00, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Article is sufficient. --Jayron32 12:32, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• I've added an altblurb that uses our standard ENGVAR-neutral phrasing. Modest Genius ^talk 14:44, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  The altblurb works for round-robin seasons. The Grey Cup is awarded for winning a championship game, so the cup was literally won because the Argos defeated the Stampeders. That is different than, say, the Premier League, where the league champion is awarded not for winning a game, but for having the best overall record. The original blurb is how we usually post definitive championship games/series such as this.--Jayron32 15:54, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  But the Grey Cup is the final of the CFL season, so we should treat it the same way as e.g. the

  Champions League Final (I've not checked how we phrased that). Besides, the ENGVAR issue is down to the the subject-verb agreement: defeat vs defeats, win vs wins etc. I have no objection if there's a better way of phrasing this that avoids that problem. Modest Genius ^talk 16:48, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply

  ]

  I don't have a preference either, but the wording I used is consistent with the wording used in previous years' blurbs about the Grey Cup. It seems to be the style that is preferred for North American sports as well. --PlasmaTwa2 23:40, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Conditional Support Referencing is a bit thin in the game summary and non-existent in the scoring summary. Those should be easy fixes. Once that's taken care of we should be good to go. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:06, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe someone just added it? Else it's there at the section heading for each quarter. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 16:44, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I added it in response to Ad Orientem's comment. --LukeSurl ^{t c} 16:47, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Support - the play-by-play supports the text with previously thin referencing and I've marked it as such (I assume the author was using this source). Article seems adequate to post. --LukeSurl ^{t c} 15:25, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Posted Stephen 23:58, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Miss Universe 2017

Consensus will not develop. Stephen 23:52, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Article: 

Demi-Leigh Nel-Peters of South Africa wins the Miss Universe 2017 beauty pageant in Las Vegas.
News source(s): [4],[5]

Credits:

• Nominated by BabbaQ (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: The only prestigious pageant and the only important pageant in the world. --BabbaQ (talk) 03:36, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose for now, article has orange tag (event no longer an orange owner), and there is no prose summary. The story is top "entertainment news", I'm ok posting it. Treat it like a sports pageant (which we post all the time) and get some prose and refs in there I'll support. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 12:04, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Miss Universe" is really a white South African? SMH — Preceding unsigned comment added by CosmicAdventure (talk • contribs) 12:07, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• I Oppose posting subjective beauty pageants in general. 331dot (talk) 12:12, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, only those contests incorporating objective (i.e. objectifying) criteria should be considered. Sca (talk) 14:25, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. There is no such thing as an important beauty pageant. Modest Genius ^talk 14:40, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose, lacking prose. On the plus side, there is a nice photo available. On the minus side, add an arbitrary comment of this biased competition being limited to a single species on a single planet in the Universe ;) --Tone 14:52, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• The image is under a deletion discussion at Commons for copyvio. Black Kite (talk) 15:16, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment. I hear that, this year, the voluptuous beauty of Miss Sock from
  Planet Skyron. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:56, 27 November 2017 (UTC) [reply
  ]

• Oppose good faith nomination, per above. Beauty pageants are not ITN material irregardless of how slow the news cycle might be. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:12, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose although [much] more notable than Miss Earth and Miss World, as MG put it, Beauty Pageants are not important nor ITN worthy. Hornetzilla78 (talk) 16:40, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose - no. Just no. Stormy clouds (talk) 18:18, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Closed] 2017 Davis Cup

No vote in support, and no sign of quality being fixed, with just one article edit in over 48 hours. So closing per

WP:SNOW. Tlhslobus (talk) 04:08, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply

]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Article: 2017 Davis Cup (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In tennis, the 2017 Davis Cup concludes with France defeating Belgium in the final. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, AP
Credits:

• Nominated by Hektor (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Premier international team event in men's tennis. Hektor ^{t c} 12:37, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose in the present state, there is no prose at all and I even had to check the tables to see who won - I'd expect this to be in the intro for starters. Needs lots of work. --Tone 19:19, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose – It's a list of tables and not an encyclopedic article. ~Mable (chat) 19:57, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose - article quality is non-existent at the moment. Irrespective of quality, I oppose, as it is not ITN/R for a reason. I consider it to be the seventh most important tennis competition, behind the Grand Slams, Olympics and ATP Finals, so it should not be on the main page. Stormy clouds (talk) 20:02, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Although one could argue it's the premier men's team event. In any case, it's nowhere near good enough to post at the moment. Black Kite (talk) 21:43, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose good faith nomination. Mainly per the quality concerns mentioned above. I would also add that referencing is is almost non-existent. I am neutral on the merits of the nomination itself given Stormy's observations in the above comment. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:10, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment In the unlikely event this gets posted, I have re-written the blurb to avoid the usual ENGVAR issues. Black Kite (talk) 21:41, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

November 25

Portal:Current events/2017 November 25

November 25, 2017 (2017-11-25) (Saturday) edit history watch International relations Russia–United States relations Russian President Vladimir Putin signs into law amendments that allow foreign media outlets in Russia to be listed as foreign agents. Earlier this month, RT America has been forced to be registered as a foreign agent in the United States. (CNN) (Reuters) Law and crime Aftermath of 2017 Zimbabwean coup d'état Former Zimbabwe finance minister Ignatius Chombo, who was arrested during Operation Restore Legacy, is charged in Harare Magistrate’s Court with three counts of fraud, abuse of power, and corruption. (Reuters) (The Citizen) LinkedIn hack in 2012 The United States and Russia begin fighting over the extradition of Yevgeniy Nikulin, who was detained in October 2016 in the Czech Republic, after the U.S. Justice Department issued an international arrest warrant for him. However, soon after the U.S. issued its arrest warrant, Russian authorities also sought his extradition. The Russian charge accuses Nikulin of stealing from an online money transfer company back in 2009. (CNN) Crime in Canada Politics and elections Queensland state election, 2017 The Australian Labor Party leads the tight race with three-quarters of the votes counted. Pauline Hanson's One Nation party has yet to confirm victory in any contest; the nationalists are projected to win just one seat though they may poll better overall than the predicted 20 percent. Official results may not be known for several days. (Reuters)

---

[Posted] RD: Rance Howard

Article: Rance Howard (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

• Nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see

WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article has been updated and is well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 09:28, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply

]

• Support Nice article and adequately sourced. No issues. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:24, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support no issues, looks good to go. Hornetzilla78 (talk) 17:29, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Posting. --Tone 18:48, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

November 24

Portal:Current events/2017 November 24

November 24, 2017 (2017-11-24) (Friday) edit history watch Armed conflicts and attacks 2017 Sinai mosque attack At least 305 people are killed, and over 128 wounded, in a bomb and gun attack at a mosque near Arish, Egypt. (BBC) International relations Syrian Civil War The White House confirms ethnic Kurdish fighters in Syria. (The Washington Post) (AP via NBC News) Palestine–United States relations The U.S. State Department, in a reversal, says the Palestine Liberation Organization mission can remain open in Washington, D.C. (CBS News) Law and crime Trial of Oscar Pistorius Former South African sprint runner Oscar Pistorius has his jail sentence increased to 13 years and five months for the murder of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp. The Supreme Court of Appeal ruled his sentence be increased to 15 years, less time already served. (9 News Australia) Taner Kılıç Sting, Peter Gabriel, Edward Snowden and Ai Weiwei call for president of Amnesty International Turkey Taner Kılıç to be released from prison. (Al Jazeera English) Politics and elections Aftermath of 2017 Zimbabwean coup d'état Emmerson Mnangagwa is sworn in as the new President of Zimbabwe pending elections next year. (CNN) The Zimbabwean government recognizes the birthday of former leader, Robert Mugabe as a national holiday. (BBC) Presidency of Donald Trump Days ahead of the Global Entrepreneurship Summit in India, scheduled to be attended by Ivanka Trump per Prime Minister Narendra Modi's June invitation, reports indicate the United States Department of State, led by Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, will not be sending a high-level delegation to support her amid reports of tensions between Tillerson and the White House. (CNN) (Daily Mail) U.S. President Donald Trump designates Office of Management and Budget director Mick Mulvaney acting director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), replacing Richard Cordray, who promoted chief of staff Leandra English to CFPB deputy director prior to his resignation. (Reuters) (The Hill)

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[Posted] Bir al-Abed attack

Article: 

Eygpt kills at least 230 people (Post)
News source(s): BBC, AP, NYT

Credits:

• Nominated by LukeSurl (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Breaking story, developing article. Death toll tragically large enough that significance beyond question. Currently no article exists for the town of

Bir al-Abed. LukeSurl ^{t c} 14:37, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply

]

• Wait until the article is adequately developed. At the moment it's a stub. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:40, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Support It looks like it has been developed into a decent start class article and is adequately referenced. That's good enough for me. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:07, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Support once once we have more information and article is in shape. This is Paul (talk) 15:00, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Death toll rising. When posting, the admin will need to check the article for the latest figure. --LukeSurl ^{t c} 15:03, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Wait for some detail please, when the "Reactions" section makes up half the article, it's not MP ready IMO. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 15:13, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support – Pending expansion. Toll at least 235, say BBC, NYT. – Sca (talk) 15:29, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - Article looks good to post. Sherenk1 (talk) 15:59, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support our article says as much if not more than many of the mainstream news websites which are carrying this on their mainpages, so we would easily be justified in posting it right now. There may not actually be much more to say for a few days while the situation is investigated, so it would be absurd to wait much longer, especially with a terrorist attack of such magnitude. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:03, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Posting. The article is sufficient for the time being. --Tone 16:06, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Emmerson Mnangagwa

Article: Emmerson Mnangagwa (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Emmerson Mnangagwa succeeds Robert Mugabe as President of Zimbabwe following a military coup. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by LukeSurl (talk · give credit)

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on

WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: A second, and (probably) final, update to the Zimbabwe-leadership blurb. As of a few minutes ago, Mnangagwa is now President. Successions to head-of-state offices are ITNR. LukeSurl ^{t c} 09:55, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply

]

• Comment Mnangagwa's article has some large unreferenced sections. Mugabe's looks fine (I didn't read the whole thing), the coup is orange tagged but can probably be fixed easily. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 11:33, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support subject to referencing in Mnangagwa's article being brought up to standard. Can we unbold Mugabe please? Mjroots (talk) 12:33, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support subject to above qualifications by Mjroots. Tlhslobus (talk) 12:36, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose for now. Serious referencing issues. This is nowhere near ready for the main page. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:45, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support once article is in shape and better sourced. This is Paul (talk) 14:59, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Why are there so many votes that read "Support" but actually mean Oppose? I don't want to split hairs here, and I've thrown out an occasional "conditional support" if there just one or two minor issues waiting to be fixed, but as far as I can tell pretty much everyone is acknowledging this article is not ready for prime time. "Let Your Yes Mean “Yes” and Your No Mean “No.” (Matthew 5:37} -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:13, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • What they're trying to avoid is having lots of opposes showing and then having to go back and re-vote once the issues are addressed. It's a way of showing that the event is important enough to be added to ITN, and it should be done as soon as it is ready, rather than have to wait for initial opposes to be changed. Mjroots (talk) 15:27, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The subject is ITNR so it's relative importance is not an issue. The only question is article quality. Saying you support an ITNR nomination once the article quality is brought up to speed is just stating the obvious. The question here is whether or not the target article is ready or not. As I noted above I can understand a "conditional support" for articles with just a couple minor quick fixes needed. But that is clearly not the case here. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:33, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Personally I think "support" should mean "I think this is ready to post now" and "oppose" should mean "this item is insufficiently notable". Everything else can be said without bold text. --LukeSurl ^{t c} 15:42, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose - Referencing issues. Sherenk1 (talk) 16:01, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Looks good to go now. Also, I agree with LukeSurl's suggestion on the use of "support" and "oppose". Davey2116 (talk) 18:29, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support MAINEiac4434 (talk) 20:20, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: As this is ITN/R it cannot be opposed on notability grounds, only on quality grounds. So I strongly disagree with LukeSurl's above suggestion that "oppose" should mean "this item is insufficiently notable". (But I have no views either way on whether the article is ready for posting or not). Incidentally, another reason for offering conditional support, especially in the early stages, may be uncertainty as to whether the ITN/R label may be challenged. (A good Wikilawyering case could arguably be made that this should not be ITN/R, as the head of state in Zimbabwe is an elective office and there has been no election; I have no wish to challenge the ITN/R flag, but I strongly suspect such a Wikilawyer would be technically correct). Tlhslobus (talk) 16:49, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support wow, much improved. Looks like Patar knight did the bulk of the work. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 23:32, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: (changed to Comment from Temporary Oppose, as I now support it, see below) I've temporarily removed the Ready flag, as it seemingly won't be Ready at least until somebody fixes the two 'Citations needed' that were added by CosmicAdventure, a few minutes before s/he posted the above Support (support which I consequently don't quite understand under the circumstances). Meanwhile leaving the Ready flag there would just waste more time by stopping editors from realizing there was something that needed fixing.Tlhslobus (talk) 00:39, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  I didn't think they were important enough to keep it off the main page. Statements aren't really controversial, BUT they're not in the refs provided. YMMV I guess. shrugs --CosmicAdventure (talk) 01:14, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Thanks for your reply, CosmicAdventure. I'm not sure what YMMV means. I've fixed one of your CNs, but I have been unable to find a source for the other. My possibly mistaken understanding is that unfixed CNs normally mean an article fails ITN quality requirements (plus Referencing Issues are also the grounds for Sherenk1's opposition above). As far as I know I can't remove a CN placed by you. So you either remove the CN, or find a citation (there may be one in some unfree source, or one needing an e-mail address), or one of us (or another editor) removes the unsourced statement (it is of little significance, which is probably why it has proved hard to verify). Assuming a source can't be found, removing the unsourced statement is probably safest, as admins here may not accept quality is fixed by leaving a statement known to have failed to be verified. If you don't fix it yourself, and nobody else does, I'll try to remember to fix it (by removing the statement) before I go to bed in perhaps an hour or two (but right now I'd prefer to leave you or others a little more time to find a source first). Once fixed the Ready flag can presumably be restored. Tlhslobus (talk) 02:05, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Incidentally there's no difficulty in finding a source for the paragraph's first sentence (that he lost to Chebundi in 2005) which I'll add shortly - the problem is sourcing the claim about the Mujuru faction in the paragraph's second sentence.Tlhslobus (talk) 02:20, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• It adds nothing, I think you could remove that quote without harm. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 02:45, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Done, and I've sourced the paragraph's first sentence, and restored the Ready flag.Tlhslobus (talk) 02:50, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Support, per above discussion. Tlhslobus (talk) 02:50, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. Article is ready and above concerns re: sourcing have been dealt with. ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 03:29, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Posted. Vanamonde (talk) 09:56, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Vanamonde. Tlhslobus (talk) 17:15, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

November 23

Portal:Current events/2017 November 23

November 23, 2017 (2017-11-23) (Thursday) edit history watch Disasters and accidents Popocatepetl volcano sends a cloud of smoke, ash and steam around 5,900 feet (1798 meters) above the peak, the largest eruption since 2013. (Yahoo! News) (El Universal) International relations Rohingya genocide Bangladesh's Foreign Minister A. H. Mahmood Ali and Myanmar's State Counsellor Aung San Suu Kyi agree to return Rohingya refugees from Bangladesh to Myanmar in a two-month period. (The Australian) Russia–Sudan relations Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir, wanted by the ICC for allegations of genocide and war crimes, asks Russian President Vladimir Putin for increased military ties and protection against the United States during his first visit to Russia as President. Putin agrees to increase their countries' economic ties. (France 24) Law and crime Immigration to Australia Papua New Guinea Police remove 40 refugees from the closed Manus Regional Processing Centre, and over 300 refugees remain. (BBC)

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[Posted] RD: Miguel Alfredo González

Article: Miguel Alfredo González (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): El Nuevo Herald
Credits:

• Nominated by Muboshgu (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see

WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 02:09, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply

]

• Support It could use a little expansion but I think it meets our standards and the referencing looks solid. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:04, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Posted Stephen 00:41, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Return of Rohingya refugees

Article: 

Rohingya refugees. (Post)
News source(s): BBC The Guardian

Credits:

• Nominated by Stormy clouds (talk · give credit)

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Further important development in a story that we have had at ITN before. If, given the Pope's pending visit and Tillerson's condemnation, we want to go for ongoing, I'll support that as well. Stormy clouds (talk) 22:09, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak Oppose I'd like to see this on the main page but honestly it's not getting the level of attention that would justify it. Also the coverage in the article that corresponds to the blurb is little more than a paragraph. Beyond which there are a handful of gaps in referencing, although the article is not in bad condition overall. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:02, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As the author of said coverage, is there really anything else that needs to be said. I feel that this is an ITN story that stands on its own regard, and the specified section will likely see little development until the physical repatriation of refugees begins (at which point the world's cameras will undoubtedly be diverted elsewhere.) Stormy clouds (talk) 17:26, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Support - Important development. Sherenk1 (talk) 16:02, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support per Sherenk1. Davey2116 (talk) 18:24, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment If that accord has a name, perhaps a standalone article as a target is worthy. Brandmeister^talk 07:49, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment So Bangladesh is doesn't want them, and is looking for cover for an eviction. Suu is trying to save face but doesn't really seem interested in stopping the persecution. Why is this accord particularly noteworthy? It won't necessarily result in the return of refugees, it won't necessarily stop the killings...GCG (talk) 02:41, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

On that basis ITN should never report any agreement about anything (no ceasefire agreements, no peace agreements, no trade agreements, no agreements to try to combat climate change, and so on ad infinitum), since every agreement may in practice fail in its ostensible objective.Tlhslobus (talk) 06:07, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Support: though I'm not terribly happy with the structure of the article, it seems adequate. Vanamonde (talk) 05:40, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Seemingly potentially far more important than any of the current items showing in ITN (with the possible, but very far from certain, exception of the Zimbabwe leadership change) in terms of how many people are liable to be significantly affected by it. Of course we can't know that it actually will be in practice, but that is probably true of many, perhaps most events we report here (such as almost all the election results we report, probably all the sports events, probably all the astronomy events, probably almost all the terrorist events, and so on). And, as already mentioned above, if we were to take seriously the objection that the agreement may not work in practice, ITN could never report any agreement on anything (no ceasefire agreements, no peace agreements, no trade agreements, no agreements to try to combat climate change, and so on ad infinitum), since every agreement may in practice fail in its ostensible objective. Tlhslobus (talk) 05:54, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment It might be different if there had already been lots of such agreements in this crisis and they had all failed, but this is the first such agreement in this particular crisis, so to simply assume it's going to fail seems a bit
  WP:Crystal, but I've already in effect mentioned above that taking that argument seriously would prevent ITN from ever reporting any agreement on anything). Tlhslobus (talk) 06:28, 26 November 2017 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Posted Stephen 00:34, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Stephen. Tlhslobus (talk) 05:28, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

November 22

Portal:Current events/2017 November 22

November 22, 2017 (2017-11-22) (Wednesday) edit history watch Armed conflicts and attacks Counter-terrorism in Georgia Explosions and gunfire are heard in the Georgian capital of Tbilisi amidst counter-terrorism operations. One security guard and 3 terrorists are killed. (Al Jazeera) Disasters and accidents USS Ronald Reagan A U.S. Navy C-2A Greyhound, operating off the aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan, crashes in the Philippine Sea. Eight sailors are rescued, while three remain missing from the 11-person crew. (CNBC) International relations Palestine–United States relations The Palestinian National Authority suspends contact with the United States after the Palestine Liberation Organization office in Washington, D.C. was closed. (UPI) International reactions to the 2016–17 Rohingya persecution in Myanmar U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson calls the persecution of Rohingya Muslims by the government of Myanmar an "ethnic cleansing" and announces that the United States will consider targeted sanctions against Myanmar. (Reuters) Law and crime International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia crimes against humanity by the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia and is sentenced to life imprisonment. (The Guardian) Politics and elections 2017 Lebanon–Saudi Arabia dispute Lebanon Prime Minister Saad Hariri arrives in Beirut for the first time since announcing his resignation in Saudi Arabia more than two weeks ago. (BBC) At Lebanese President Michel Aoun's request, Hariri suspends his resignation so further consultations can proceed. (BBC)

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RD: Maurice Hinchey

Article: Maurice Hinchey (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Albany Times-Union, Middletown Times-Herald Record, Kingston Daily Freeman
Credits:

• Nominated by Daniel Case (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Strawberriez (talk · give credit) and Billmckern (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see

WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: My congressman once upon a time; a politician I knew personally through my previous work as a journalist and later as a local Democratic activist. Helped draw attention to Love Canal in his early years as a state legislator

Article will need some more sources and format work; I have done some but can't do it all right now Daniel Case (talk) 05:14, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply

]

• Support after upgrade. Capitalistroadster (talk) 07:02, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose for now. Not ready for the main page. Significant gaps in referencing. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:20, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose too much unreferenced, and some ref errors too. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:21, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Looks good to go now. Davey2116 (talk) 18:23, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, it's not even close to ready for the main page. Totally ignoring the massive gaps in referencing it reads like a tribute page. Bluntly this is going to need some work before it can be posted. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:33, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Support - after completed improvements.--BabbaQ (talk) 00:40, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jon Hendricks

Nominator's comments: Jon Hendricks, 96, brought a new dimension to improvisational Jazz singing.

• Comment. Will need work on referencing before posting to main page. Capitalistroadster (talk) 04:40, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose large swaths of unreferenced text. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:22, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Trial of Ratko Mladić

Nominator's comments: Top line news story, conclusion of major war crimes trial. Dedicated article exists for the trial. Blurb could detail some of the convictions (including genocide at the Srebrenica massacre), though length is an issue. LukeSurl ^{t c} 11:53, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• The trial article needs updates if it is to be the bolded link. Use ICTY as the abbreviation in the blurb and add Siege of Sarajevo. --Tone 12:06, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• I've done a basic update. --LukeSurl ^{t c} 12:28, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support (altblurb2). Global front page news now, highly significant. --Tataral (talk) 12:56, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Issue with altblurb2 is that Mladić was not convicted of genocide at the Siege of Sarajevo. These actions were ascribed to other types of charges. The acts he was convicted for cover a wide swath of the Bosnian War. --LukeSurl ^{t c} 13:11, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Support I am unimpressed with the article quality. The section on reactions to the subject's arrest is ridiculously bloated. If you prune that to a reasonable level what's left is really pretty bare-bones. That said, I think it meets our standards, albeit only barely, and is adequately referenced. -Ad Orientem (talk) 13:51, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support on the merits as war crimes convictions especially by an international body are notable. 331dot (talk) 14:16, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support in principle This is the right time for this to appear in ITN. I think the article can be improved - the trial section seems weak relative to the rest (incluidng the massive reaction section which is generally a no-no). --MASEM (t) 14:38, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support – (Alt2) - Seems the No. 1 story on most mainstream Eng. sites (and high on other sites, too). Sca (talk) 15:03, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

However, I will say that the article is much too heavily larded with flag salad. All those quotes are are six years old. Comments on the conviction and sentencing would be far more relevant. Sca (talk) 16:38, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Question Whats the right way to tag a dead link for a source, and a "not in source"? There is this dramatic story of his arrest, the first link is dead, the second doesn't have any of the details presented in the article. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 15:48, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• I think you want
  Template:Deadlink and/or Template:Failed verification. --LukeSurl ^{t c} 15:56, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply
  ]

• Thanks, those are the ones. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 16:02, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Altblurb3--it reads better, omits Serbia and the implication of collective guilt, and includes the specific crimes. μηδείς (talk) 15:50, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the blurb should indicate the nationality of the person; altblurb3 simply expects the reader to already know who Ratko Mladić is and which part of the world we are talking about. I believe we always mention the country of a person who is the subject of an ITN item. --Tataral (talk) 16:17, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If anything, Yugoslav should be enough. There were war criminals on all sides in that war, and saying Serbian in the blurb is inflammatory, it is the crimes (also "genocide" from what I heard on the radio) and not the evildoer's blood that matters. I'll go so far as to oppose posting with ethnicity mentioned. μηδείς (talk) 00:03, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That is is "inflammatory" to mention the nationality of an individual who is the subject of an ITN item is complete nonsense. This is basic encyclopedic information. Not mentioning it would be non-encyclopedic, as it would take for granted that all readers around the globe already know who he is and where he's from. Mladić is notable for his role as the military leader of Republika Srpska. Yugoslavia is not an adequate nationality, as it no longer exists. Mladić lived in Serbia when he was arrested and is notable for his role as leader of the military of Republika Srpska; he is widely described in the context in which he is notable as Bosnian Serb. --Tataral (talk) 03:53, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's not about ethnicity, it's about his status as the military leader of Republika Srpska, one of the specific participants in the war. We could just describe him as "former military leader of Republika Srpska." --Tataral (talk) 03:54, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't have a problem with that (Republika Srpska) except that the blurb would be extraordinarily long. See Alternative blurb V.

I think there are two fundamental things. At the time of the active fighting, Serbia was part of a rump Yugoslavia still including other nationalities. There were ethnic Serbs in Bosnia-Hercegovina as well as Catholic Croats and Muslims not identifying as Serb. There were war criminals of all ethnicities in that conflict.

Identifying Mladic by ethnicity is neither relevant to the crime nor neutral. We wouldn't point out that the DC snipers were black, that the Austrian dictator Hitler had shot himself, that the genocidal Georgian Stalin had died, or that the accused in the Trayvon Martin shooting was a "white Hispanic". I am far from being a Serbian apologist, but we simply don't need to be picking out issues of ancestry when the topic is a moral one which depends on the actor's choice, not parentage. μηδείς (talk) 16:19, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Alt2 top story in several global news papers and widespread coverage in many others. Hornetzilla78 (talk) 15:55, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose the article is a mess, no good refs for the arrest details, an impenetrable wall of reactions to his 2011 arrest, the link for the single ref for the defense funding "controversy" is dead. Main hearings sections has random bits of proseline. In the news or not, article is not MP quality. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 15:57, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support thanks to LukeSurl. I still think it has some NPOV issues but it's good enough I think. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 16:11, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

⇒ Getting stale. No longer very prominent on news sites. Withdraw support. Sca (talk) 15:30, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

At ITN, "stale" means older than the oldest item in the template. This would currently be the newest item. If we abandoned every nomination that hadn't achieved consensus to post in 24 hours we'd hardly post anything.--LukeSurl ^{t c} 17:05, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's not what stale means in English, in which this site is written, or in journalism usage. Our readers don't care what it means "at ITN." Sca (talk)

Anayway, the article is still crammed with extremely stale flag salad – 20 flags, no less – and editorially it's not up to Main Page display. Sca (talk) 18:32, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Support alt IV important news. 70.50.212.64 (talk) 16:08, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - Important news. Leave the blurb selection to the posting admin's discretion, so long as it is relatively concise. Marking ready given apparent consensus. Stormy clouds (talk) 22:33, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Since none of the supporters bothered to read my oppose, I've been forced to orange tag two sections of the article. The refs are broken, plain and simple. All the "important news" in the world can't change that. Thanks to LukeSurl for the work done so far. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 22:49, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per CA, but not far to go. GCG (talk) 13:56, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• I've BOLDly commented out the orange-tagged "Republika Srpska defence funding controversy" section as it was non-essential and supported only by a deadlinked reference. --LukeSurl ^{t c} 14:14, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• CosmicAdventure, I hope I have addressed these issues to your satisfaction. The overabundance of flags is annoying, but shouldn't preclude posting now. --LukeSurl ^{t c} 14:23, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• LukeSurl the arrest section still has statements like "The officers entered the village in four jeeps in the early morning hours, while most residents were still asleep" that aren't in any of the refs. re: flags - I agree, though I think you could remove any reactions from outside the Balkans if you wanted it. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 15:12, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• From that paragraph I've removed unsupported content. --LukeSurl ^{t c} 15:18, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Thanks. GTG I think. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 16:11, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Posting Alt5. Good job everyone working on the article! --Tone 16:15, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Disagree. Still full of outdated comments. Sca (talk) 01:10, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a convenient Link to the Article Trial of Ratko Mladić, Sca. You can go correct the problems you see without any need for approval in this venue. μηδείς (talk) 01:41, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You go. Sca (talk) 18:28, 25 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] RD David Cassidy

[Closed] RD: Rodney Bewes

[Posted] Robert Mugabe Resigns

• Support This has been a major, ongoing story for several days now and this development, the apparent voluntary resignation of Mugabe in the face of his impending impeachment, is significant enough to warrent a bump. Both articles are of sufficient quality and properly updated. --Jayron32 16:27, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• This item should replace the prior Zimbabwe item and be placed at the top. We will also need to do the same when he is officially succeeded. It seems the office is technically vacant for now. --LukeSurl ^{t c} 16:31, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  Suggest …resigns as President of Zimbabwe… rather than …resigns as President of Zimbabwe… --LukeSurl ^{t c} 16:33, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  Though Zimbabwe is yet another country where "President/Prime Minister of X" redirects to "List of Presidents/Prime Ministers of X", rather than having an actual article about the office. Failing that at least a redlink would promote creation of an article. (This is just a general grumble, not really pertinent to this nomination). --LukeSurl ^{t c} 16:42, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  Easy enough to do "resigns as

  President of Zimbabwe". – Muboshgu (talk) 17:06, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply

  ]

• Support replacement/bump as above. --MASEM (t) 16:33, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Major event of national and international interest. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 16:34, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support replacement of current entry.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 16:35, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Makes sense to update the current item with this one in light of the new development. Regards SoWhy 16:37, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. Do we get another jump to the top if he also dies before the end of the week? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:41, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support this as a new blurb at top of list, removing old blurb. I did raise this at
  WP:MPE. Mjroots (talk) 16:42, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply
  ]
• Support remove the old blurb, replace with this blurb. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:05, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Posted -- KTC (talk) 17:26, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

comment not techmicallya coup since he resigned voluntarily in the country while still being constitutional prez, granted chicanery pressure was unusual. That said by billion dollarnoteswill soon have antique value, soo just a quip ;)Lihaas (talk) 18:03, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Since he only resigned after being taken prisoner by the military, I think we can call this a coup. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:18, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we call it a coup.... -- KTC (talk) 20:28, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be incorrect to call his resignation "voluntary." He resigned as the legislative body was beginning to discuss his removal, and it was clear how the vote was going to go since the ruling party had already removed him as party leader. This coup did not follow the pattern of most such events, because the leader retained his title for a few days - though he had been removed from any real power. Fortunately for him he did not meet the same fate as most leaders who are ousted in a military coup.

Neutron (talk) 21:42, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply

]

• Post-posting support any change of government is [almost] always ITN material.Hornetzilla78 (talk) 18:58, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@

recurring events list, meaning the merits are not in dispute. Changes in head of government get discussed on their own merits(though most such changes are posted with general elections, which also are on the list). 331dot (talk) 09:13, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply

]

• Support - No-brainer. A notorious autocrat who ruined his country. This was long overdue. Kurtis ^(talk) 21:26, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@

WP:ITNR) this does not require support on the merits, just for article quality. 331dot (talk) 09:13, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply

]

@331dot: And the article happens to be of sufficient quality, so my support stands. Kurtis ^(talk) 12:58, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, I agree with bumping and updating the blurb. Kurtis ^(talk) 13:00, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Terry Glenn

• Support No major issues. I think it meets our generally applied standards. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:51, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Posting. --Tone 09:44, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] RD: Della Reese

[Posted] 1I/ʻOumuamua detection

 Radagast (talk) 19:04, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose Either stale or incomplete. The last information in the article is dated October 26. --Jayron32 19:10, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  As a note, and to reply to several comments below, I have no problem with posting this so long as the article itself makes it clear why it is in the news now. I'm not particularly opposed to posting major scientific discoveries, it is just that the text of this article makes no effort to indicate why now is why it is in the news. --Jayron32 19:27, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  The key reason it appears to be in the news now is the publication of the Nature paper that documents observations. I mention this only because it was also in the news a few days ago, for the selection of the Hawaiian name (but that's not the point of the ITN/C here), so that people searching for newsworthiness and finding these older stories, they should be aware that was a different facet; this ITNC appears to be slotted in the right place. --MASEM (t) 19:34, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  Yes, but where does the article text say that? What you tell me, here, on this page makes no bit of difference. What you write, in the text of the article itself, is all that matters. --Jayron32 19:41, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  Oh, absolutely. I don't see the Nature article sourced, or even the references published today acknowledging that publication. That has to be in first. I just want to be clear that in this discussion outside of article quality, today is the right day for this, and just caution those looking into the proper date to be aware of other news-worthy milestones that are not the same as this date (publication of studies in a reliable scientific journal). --MASEM (t) 20:53, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  I have just added in the BBC article published today, and the Nature letter to the article (under "Observations") as to explain why today was important. I do note that the pre-published this 10 Nov, so conclusions by it seemingly were already discussed in various scientific circles, but today's the day that Nature publicly published it. This should now be ready to go. --MASEM (t) 22:11, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• This was actually nominated back in October, the consensus then was to wait until more is known (e.g. a paper is published). The interstellar status seems much clearer now, however, the question is what new happened recently? --Tone 19:13, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support in principle, but the article needs updating first. The problem last time was that many properties were still unknown and there wasn't a peer-reviewed paper. However, one was just published in Nature today. I think this is ITN-worthy, but the article will need updating to reflect the newly-published results (such as the unusual shape) and properly cite the paper, as well as the existing (non-peer-reviewed) MPECs, preprints and research notes. The blurb will need to be crafted to indicate that the results were just published, as there were various interim announcements a few weeks ago. Modest Genius ^talk 19:18, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose due to minimal coverage (at the moment) on the finding. Kirliator (talk) 19:21, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Confirmation of this is an amazing event. (orbital parameters get more refined the longer an object had been observed of course, it had to move before you can see the shape of its orbit) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:08, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I think that with the Nature paper, we should use the blurb that was originally presented in Oct, this being that studies have identified this as first known extra-solar system asteroid to be detected/measured. The speed in the current blurb has little to do with this. Alternatively, the focus I'm seeing that the object has an extremely enlongated shape is possibly something to focus on. --MASEM (t) 19:24, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe it's elongated cause it's an alien spacecraft.. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:14, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

At least we have the whales to save us then. --MASEM (t) 21:37, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment while I like the enthusiasm of this discovery (and would normally support this kind of nomination), the main problem is that posting a blurb that was initially created more than a month ago is technically stale as Jaycon32 initially stated. Although I do not necessarily oppose the current nomination, I agree with several of the above users that the content of the blurb should be updated before it can be posted to ITN. Hornetzilla78 (talk) 19:38, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• OP Comment - I was unaware of the October listing (I don't frequent this page). If anyone wants to offer an alternative blurb, please feel free. Radagast (talk) 20:36, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - to call this stale is another way of calling the ITN system broken. Back in October when there was more news coverage, some editors argued for waiting on the grounds that no peer reviewed paper had been published yet (or similar). Now there has been such a paper (+ several more preprints), the item is no longer in the news, so now the argument is that it is stale. If we accept this kind of reasoning the only way to feature this is to have a peer reviewed paper being written, reviewed and published within ~7 days - a pipe dream. I suggest an alt blurb saying it's been characterized, since what's so unique about this is not just the interstellar speed (its trajectory is another unique thing, for example). Banedon (talk) 20:57, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• I'd support Alt1. --Tone 21:24, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Strongest Oppose no major news network is covering this, likely because they don’t give a hoot about it. 2600:1015:B121:C116:89AD:9FC5:411B:DD59 (talk) 21:29, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • It has just been reported in the last few hours, and I found BBC and Guardian articles rather easily. It's being covered. --MASEM (t) 21:37, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Difficult to ascertain intent here, but it is noteworthy that this strongest oppose originates from a IP

SPA with only a solitary edit. Stormy clouds (talk) 21:50, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply

]

• • First extrasolar object in solar system (or within 4 light years/25,000,000,000,000 miles actually) That's important. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:50, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. A notable scientific discovery; this isn't stale. It takes time to properly report and confirm these discoveries. 331dot (talk) 21:46, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Alt blurb that’s more like it. Good to go. Hornetzilla78 (talk) 21:49, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - this is significant scientific news. Stormy clouds (talk) 21:51, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment please fix the referencing errors before this is posted. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:54, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Refs fixed, posting. --Tone 22:49, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Post-posting support. What clinches it for me is the bizarre shape. Abductive (reasoning) 01:49, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Post-posting Support while this object very likely is an asteroid, seeing as this is the first interstellar object to enter the Solar System an be described by astronomers. This is a major astronomy milestone, despite the opposition. SamaranEmerald (talk) 03:02, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Post-posting Support Being a genuine first, this is a unique never-to-be-repeated event and thus deserves to be in ITN. Plus I strongly agree with Banedon's excellent point about the absurdity of first not posting on grounds that it needs confirmation, but then not posting on grounds that it's stale. Tlhslobus (talk) 10:29, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Post-posting Comment That's no moon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.40.58.47 (talk) 04:52, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Post-posting Comment As someone who is not an editor, but is a regular reader of this page, I must say thank you on posting this. Science-related articles rarely get a chance as the peer review process is slow by necessity. By the time these are qualified as accurate, they're usually outside of the news-o-sphere. They are most certainly worthy of encyclopedic inclusion and deserving of dissemination through ITN... even if ITN isn't technically part of the encyclopedic scope of Wikipedia. But what the hey? We get "That's no moon" before a single Rendezvous with Rama reference? You're all better than that... 63.224.191.9 (talk) 16:28, 24 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Elizabeth II

[Posted] 2017 Monster Energy NASCAR Cup Series championship

Article: 2017 Monster Energy NASCAR Cup Series (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Martin Truex Jr. (pictured) wins the NASCAR Cup Series championship. (Post)
News source(s): MRN, USA Today
Credits:

• Nominated by Dough4872 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by A.lanzetta (talk · give credit), WWEFan1926 (talk · give credit) and Dough4872 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on

WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 Dough4872 15:12, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply

• Support This is what one of these articles should look like before main page posting. Sufficient prose summary of the entire season, including week-by-week synopses, everything well referenced. This lacks for nothing. Good stuff. --Jayron32 15:46, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Ditto. An exemplary article for sport event. Do we have some guideline whether to include the sponsor name? (Monster energy) --Tone 15:56, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - article is ready for posting. Remove brand names from the title though - users will know the event well enough, and if they don't that is what links are for. We don't exist to promote energy drinks. Stormy clouds (talk) 16:50, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support and I also agree with Stormy Clouds, for brevity of front page posting, the sponsor's name is unnecessary. --MASEM (t) 16:55, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• No need for the sponsor's name. --LukeSurl ^{t c} 17:02, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Removed series sponsor from blurb. Dough4872 17:27, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support. I too commend the authors for detailed prose on each race, which more than makes up from the list- & table-heavy rest of the article. The sponsor's name is indeed unnecessary. Looks good to go. Modest Genius ^talk 18:11, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Posting. Feel free to update the photo. --Tone 19:00, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted to RD] Jana Novotná

• Oppose with regret. Too much of the latter part of the article is unreferenced, and the "personal life" section is a single sentence noting her death. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:52, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose for the minute, as there is too much unsourced content. Paging Megalibrarygirl for cleanup. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:25, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support when ready. Well that's obvious really, per RD rules. A part of me thinks this might even be blurbworthy, because she was young, a grand slam winner, and (for me at least) it was a bit unexpected. Probably not quite noteworthy enough, but putting that out there anyway.  — Amakuru (talk) 14:17, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment I'm happy to source it. I'll work on it today. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 17:57, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good job, Megalibrarygirl. It could use a couple more refs in the few lines above 'Later years and death', but it's probably time for a re-review. --PFHLai (talk) 04:50, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Support - per improvements.BabbaQ (talk) 09:28, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Posted Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 22:43, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted to RD] Charles Manson

• Support when ready obvious shoe-in, but article is largely unsourced and most of his fans will not be in our editor demographic. I refrained from posting this nom myself when I saw the article's state. My parents adored him, but they were born in the '30's. μηδείς (talk) 03:53, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose all indiviudals with articles are a "shoo in" if their article is up to scratch. This article is far from it. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:53, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Pancho Segura

• Support A refreshingly solid article that is well sourced. My only quibble, and it is not a big deal, is that there seems to be a bit of name dropping in the lead paragraph of the retirement section. I'd suggest trimming that down. But all in all I think it's good to go. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:18, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Posted Stephen 00:38, 20 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Gillian Rolton